Liberty smoking + Why Not Today

[Bxc53]

So.... it would be a non-smoking, non-drinking, non-gambling, non-over-eating cruise? All of the above, to some degree or another, are self destructive.

Let the flames explode.....

Happy Cruising,

TnT

 

 

True, But of those, smoking is the only one that affects others directly..

[imsulin]

True, But of those, smoking is the only one that affects others directly..

 

Are you sure about that? How many posts over the years have been directed towards DRUNK passengers who have directly affected other passengers? Do a little research.

[Bxc53]

Are you sure about that? How many posts over the years have been directed towards DRUNK passengers who have directly affected other passengers? Do a little research.

 

 

OK, looks like this thread is hitting bottom.

Bye Bye

[Mark_K]

This article only has a half-hearted few line comments about the demise of the non-smoking Paradise....from Carnival. I worked as a TA during this time, and CCL company reps pretty much said this ship was losing money every week, despite their good intentions. Like I said before - RCI and Celebrity are making it work by eliminating smoking areas one step at a time, instead of all at once, like Carnival did...which was why the Paradise didn't work.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was losing money by the end of its tenure in the Caribbean. That's the way it works with all cruise ships, smoking or non-smoking. You start out as the latest and greatest and get the prime seven day itineraries. Then other ships come along that are later and greater, and you don't compete as well, so you get moved to shorter and/or less attractive itineraries.

 

That doesn't make it a failure or mean that it "tanked", it's just the natural life cycle of cruise ships.

[IrishCC]

I hate say but it's pretty much the same on all Freedom class and not much different on Oasis even.

Really?? We're going on Indy in February . . . it is our first time on a freedom class ship and I was really hoping to be able to enjoy the promenade!

 

I guess I'll go back to the radiance class after this

[boaterette]

I don't think the thread is moot as cruise lines may see this as feedback.

 

However, your advice is appropriate. After five cruises on different lines, I've found that I can't rely on finding a smoke free experience without significantly restricting where I go on the ship, including my balcony. I feel I paid for use of all the facilities. So, the answer is to vote with my dollars and switch my vacation spending to land based providers who can offer a smoke free experience.

 

Hopefully, one day a cruise line will build a business model that does not rely on self destructive behavior from their customers. Until then, my $ stays on land..

 

What? A cruise line without a buffet or drinking. Bite your tounge.:eek:

[amybear912]

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/dec/21/travel/tr-ntb21

 

Mark...

 

Consider this...

 

An employee of any company who gives a statement pertaining to profitability is bound by the company to "withold" certain information, or "spin" the information in a way that still shows the company in a favorable light...

 

Soooo... the Carnival rep you keep quoting is certainly not going to come right out and say, "Yeah, we couldn't make any money off of non-smokers"... so much to consider here... For example, where was Paradise sailing out of when it was smoke-free??? I believe it was either Mobile or New Orleans... so the fact that Paradise "out-performed" might have been a comment more related to its' departure port... either of which generally don't do very well anyway... Don't believe me??? How many ships are sailing out of either of those ports these days??? And how are they doing related to other Caribbean cruises sailing out of other ports???

 

You have to do a bit of work when considering statements that come directly from a company regarding lack of profitability...

[mjsshipboy]

From my personal experience on the IOS this past month:

No Smoking inside, in any venues except:

Upper floor of the Labyrinth (double set of closed doors kept it there)

Connoisseurs Lounge

Casino "Smokers Corner" till 11:30 AM only.

No smoking in any other indoor areas.

Happy Cruising,

TnT

 

This is when the IOS was sailing out of Southampton with a primarily British Clientele. Smoking in public spaces is illegal in the UK, RCI are mirroring the culture of the majority of the guests who sail on the ship. The same as the Rhapsody in Australia, smoking is almost non-existant in Australia (In public) and that is the same on the Rhapsody. I am sure the Vision and Splendour, sailing in Brazil, is a VERY different story.

 

The cruise lines will mirror society. They are not there to enforce a culture on society. That is not the job of a leisure based business.

[mjsshipboy]

I got this from wikipedia.

"The Paradise was built to be the world's first completely non-smoking cruise ship. Every step of her construction was done by non-smoking personnel and she was entered into service supported by several anti-smoking and cancer-prevention groups. "No smoking" signs were placed prominently on both sides of the ship and on the stern under the name.

Non-smoking rules were strictly enforced. No smoking materials of any kind were permitted aboard. If anything was seen or found, the passenger was fined $250 and put off at the next port (transportation home to be provided at passenger's own expense). Due to poor revenue, Carnival decided to discontinue the smoke-free ship in December 2003 because non-smokers tend to not drink or gamble as much as those accustomed to smoke."

 

I remember at the time that Carnival said the only reason that they stopped having the Paradise as non-smoking was because she was moving west and there were not the same options as in the Caribbean for smoking guests, however, as people pointed out at the time, if Carnival really were passionate about the non-smoking status, then there were plenty of other Fantasy Class ships that could have moved to LA.

 

This was a way for Carnival to get rid of the ship, without losing face.

 

It is true, say what you like, but smokers do spend more on the high-profit areas, gaming and alcohol. Name me any casino in the world that is non smoking by choice (Where not regulated by law)...

[mjsshipboy]

Mark...

 

Consider this...

 

An employee of any company who gives a statement pertaining to profitability is bound by the company to "withold" certain information, or "spin" the information in a way that still shows the company in a favorable light...

 

Soooo... the Carnival rep you keep quoting is certainly not going to come right out and say, "Yeah, we couldn't make any money off of non-smokers"... so much to consider here... For example, where was Paradise sailing out of when it was smoke-free??? I believe it was either Mobile or New Orleans... so the fact that Paradise "out-performed" might have been a comment more related to its' departure port... either of which generally don't do very well anyway... Don't believe me??? How many ships are sailing out of either of those ports these days??? And how are they doing related to other Caribbean cruises sailing out of other ports???

 

You have to do a bit of work when considering statements that come directly from a company regarding lack of profitability...

 

Paradise did 7 day East/West cruises out of Miami.

 

She was the oldest ship on that 7 day run, being of the older Fantasy Class design. At the time, the other ships in that market were CCLs Destiny Class, RCIs Voyager Class and so a Fantasy Class ship really had no place in that market, which I am sure didn't help.... but if the anti-smokers were SO against it (And I am relatively anti-smoking) then I am suire they would have picked the older, smaller Paradise over the newer ships...

[mjsshipboy]

Oh and my last word... if it "Outperformed" as was quoted by a Carnival rep on the last page, why, when Paradise repositioned, did they not have a new Smoke-Free ship in the Caribbean?

[bbenson]

 

Hopefully, one day a cruise line will build a business model that does not rely on self destructive behavior from their customers. Until then, my $ stays on land..

 

 

Oh where to start... self destructive behavoirs that you don't think effect anyone..

 

Overeating : Ever get the middle seat next to two 300 lb guys? Not effected huh? (and I am a big man for the record...but still)

 

Drinking: Ever get hit on or worse ASSAULTED by someone too drunk to take a hint that you didn't want? If the answer is no ask your wife or daughter how it feels.

 

Gambling: Ever had your husband/wife/so lose too much money gambling? And gambling addicts also will commit fraud/robbery etc to get money to gamble just like drug addcits.

 

Drugs: Ever stopped in Jamaica and seen the people stoned that night??

 

Gym: Even the gym can be self destructive, but more to the point if you didn't do anything self destructive you wouldn't be there in the first place!

 

Beauty Salon: Think it's entirely healthy all the chemicals people use to color their hair/makeup etc. Yes I know FDA approved and all but still it's Poison you're injecting into your face...hellloooo BoTOX!

 

So I guess that;d leave the cruise lines what? Shuffle board and the art auction? No wait they serve alcohol at the art auctions...hmmmm....

 

Now that being said, for those that say "I paid to use all the facilities and I want to use them." WELL, so did the smokers, and typically they spend more onboard a cruise than nonsmokers... does that mean they are more entitled to use all the facilities? No...don't think so. As far as balconies go... if you are smoke sensitive my suggestion is get a balcony as far forward as possible so you don't have to worry, plus those balconies are usually cheaper. OR you can get a balcony mid aft since in my experience those have been good too.

 

But I want to end on a light note so here's a joke.

 

An 80 year old man recently picked a new primary care doctor. After two visits and exhaustive lab tests, the doctor said he was doing fairly well for his age. A little concerned about that comment, he couldnt resist asking the doctor,"Do you think Ill live to be 80? The doctor asked "Do you smoke tobacco, or drink beer or wine? "Oh no," the man replied. "Im dont do drugs, either!" Then the doctor asked, "Do you eat rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?" "No, my former doctor said that all red meat is very unhealthy!" "Do you spend a lot of time in the sun,like playing golf,sailing,hiking or bicycling? "No, I dont," the man said. Then the doctor asked,"Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have a lot of sex?" "No," he said. The doctor looked at the man and said................. "Then, why do you even care?"

[Bigtex1622]

On RC cruise ships, do you find cigar, pipe, pot smokers too?

Cigarettes are not too bad, I quit 11 -12 years ago,

but some of that strange tobacco they sell, smells strange.

I have noticed that more are quitting cigarettes,

and taking up other stuff.

[Nessa1dc]

According to you "Anything that's profitable...doesn't discontinue."

However smoking is said to be profitable to the cruiseline yet it

is being discontinued. It has been discontinued in several bars and

in the casino on some nights. At some point in the future (when not if)

it will be discontinued in all inside areas and probably most of the

remaining smoking allowed outside areas.

 

My point wasn't for this...but I'll respond...it isn't discontinued...I don't necessarily believe that smoking is RCCLs profit maker, but people are and many of those people smoke....so they will try to accommodate them as fairly as possible. While smoking is no longer allowed in certain bars, and some nights...it is still allowed, which is why we have this thread. At any time it becomes completely non-smoking, I will put my big girl pants on and either quit smoking or do something else, one thing I won't do is complain. It will be, what it will be.

[Mark_K]

Mark...

 

Consider this...

 

An employee of any company who gives a statement pertaining to profitability is bound by the company to "withold" certain information, or "spin" the information in a way that still shows the company in a favorable light...

 

Soooo... the Carnival rep you keep quoting is certainly not going to come right out and say, "Yeah, we couldn't make any money off of non-smokers"... so much to consider here... For example, where was Paradise sailing out of when it was smoke-free??? I believe it was either Mobile or New Orleans... so the fact that Paradise "out-performed" might have been a comment more related to its' departure port... either of which generally don't do very well anyway... Don't believe me??? How many ships are sailing out of either of those ports these days??? And how are they doing related to other Caribbean cruises sailing out of other ports???

 

You have to do a bit of work when considering statements that come directly from a company regarding lack of profitability...

I usually go by what's in the company's best interests. In this case, they could have avoided all the negative publicity of turning it into a smoking ship just by telling the truth (that it was failing financially), if that was in fact, the truth.

[LUVTRAVEL6]

I have a question for those out there who have cruised several lines. Is there generally more smoking on Carnival and Princess than on Royal Caribbean? I only ask because I know that both Carnival and Princess allow smoking in the staterooms. I am sensitive to smoke, and smoky hallways etc. around my cabin would ruin my trip.

 

I was on Freedom of the Seas in June, and while there was smoking in certain areas of the ship, only certain areas were really smokey. In general, I felt the smokers on board were very respectful, and were smoking in the designated areas. I have wanted to try Carnival, but am afraid there will be more smoking all over the ship.

 

I am booked on Liberty of the Seas for the spring, and I was disappointed to hear that there appears to be more smoking allowed on that ship. I would have thought that the rules would be somewhat uniform on the entire RCCL line. I actually thought that on FOS, there was a very good mix of places for smokers and non-smokers. The casino was non-smoking on both formal nights, but was smokey on the rest of the nights. But I thought it was great that they offered two non-smoking nights so that those who wanted to gamble in a smoke free environment could do so, and smokers could gamble on the other evenings.

 

If anyone has feedback on smoking on Carnival or Princess, I'd appreciate hearing it.

[G'ma]

I remember at the time that Carnival said the only reason that they stopped having the Paradise as non-smoking was because she was moving west and there were not the same options as in the Caribbean for smoking guests, however, as people pointed out at the time, if Carnival really were passionate about the non-smoking status, then there were plenty of other Fantasy Class ships that could have moved to LA.

 

This was a way for Carnival to get rid of the ship, without losing face.

 

It is true, say what you like, but smokers do spend more on the high-profit areas, gaming and alcohol. Name me any casino in the world that is non smoking by choice (Where not regulated by law)...

 

The L.A. article as quoted has an indication of the reason in the body of it.....

 

"Because Paradise will be the only Carnival ship on that route, the company can't limit it just to nonsmokers, Bob Dickinson, Carnival's president and chief executive, said earlier this month.

From the start, the ship had trouble attracting group bookings because most include at least some smokers. However, it has been "hugely popular with families," some specialized organizations such as doctors and physical-fitness buffs, and with people allergic to smoke, said Jennifer de la Cruz, a Carnival spokeswoman."

 

Charters and groups are a huge revenue generator for all cruise ships... Without those bookings, you and I would be paying a lot more than we do now.

 

Paradise also fell short of projected revenues generated by the bars/lounges and the casino.

 

It did have a popular following and was almost right up to fleet standards for occupancy... The revenue wasn't there, however.

[webteach]

Taking my 80 year old mom on her 6th cruise. Lungs and breathing are so bad from smoking most of her life (despite quitting 15 years ago) - she will barely make it around the ship. A lesson for all of us!

[esmo]

However, that was in 2003, 6 years later less people are smoking. I wish some cruise company would pull the trigger and go totally non smoking. Marriott did it at their properties. I am sure they are still making revenue as before the ban.

 

Just as a comment. Marriott went non-smoking inside, but still provide smoking areas on their properties in a designated areas. Just as the cruise lines provide smoking designated areas. My husband is a smoker (am I happy about that - no) and we stayed at Marriott properties both prior and after our recent cruise.

[esmo]

I have a question for those out there who have cruised several lines. Is there generally more smoking on Carnival and Princess than on Royal Caribbean? I only ask because I know that both Carnival and Princess allow smoking in the staterooms. I am sensitive to smoke, and smoky hallways etc. around my cabin would ruin my trip.

 

I was on Freedom of the Seas in June, and while there was smoking in certain areas of the ship, only certain areas were really smokey. In general, I felt the smokers on board were very respectful, and were smoking in the designated areas. I have wanted to try Carnival, but am afraid there will be more smoking all over the ship.

 

I am booked on Liberty of the Seas for the spring, and I was disappointed to hear that there appears to be more smoking allowed on that ship. I would have thought that the rules would be somewhat uniform on the entire RCCL line. I actually thought that on FOS, there was a very good mix of places for smokers and non-smokers. The casino was non-smoking on both formal nights, but was smokey on the rest of the nights. But I thought it was great that they offered two non-smoking nights so that those who wanted to gamble in a smoke free environment could do so, and smokers could gamble on the other evenings.

 

If anyone has feedback on smoking on Carnival or Princess, I'd appreciate hearing it.

 

We just got off the Sapphire. There were smoking areas on deck 14 on the port side near the Trident Grill, starboard somewhat forward on the Promenade Deck and near the Oasis Bar. I suppose there might have been smoking in the cabins but my husband would never have considered doing that. He smoked on our balcony and with me sitting next to him I couldn't even smell the smoke..too much wind. We didn't use the Casino so I can't address that issue. All smokers I saw were trying very hard to be considerate.

[Gilgo Surfer]

I got this from wikipedia.

"The Paradise was built to be the world's first completely non-smoking cruise ship. Every step of her construction was done by non-smoking personnel and she was entered into service supported by several anti-smoking and cancer-prevention groups. "No smoking" signs were placed prominently on both sides of the ship and on the stern under the name.

Non-smoking rules were strictly enforced. No smoking materials of any kind were permitted aboard. If anything was seen or found, the passenger was fined $250 and put off at the next port (transportation home to be provided at passenger's own expense). Due to poor revenue, Carnival decided to discontinue the smoke-free ship in December 2003 because non-smokers tend to not drink or gamble as much as those accustomed to smoke."

 

That's interesting! I will have to go see that on wiki. I am a light smoker(about a pack a week). There would have to be at least one smoking lounge and one smoking deck for me to even consider booking. A casino without smoke, is that even really a casino:confused: Part of the ambiance as far as I'm concerned.

[Gilgo Surfer]

However, that was in 2003, 6 years later less people are smoking. I wish some cruise company would pull the trigger and go totally non smoking. Marriott did it at their properties. I am sure they are still making revenue as before the ban.

 

I notice you didn't say "as much" revenue as before the ban.

[Gilgo Surfer]

I don't think the thread is moot as cruise lines may see this as feedback.

 

However, your advice is appropriate. After five cruises on different lines, I've found that I can't rely on finding a smoke free experience without significantly restricting where I go on the ship, including my balcony. I feel I paid for use of all the facilities. So, the answer is to vote with my dollars and switch my vacation spending to land based providers who can offer a smoke free experience.

 

Hopefully, one day a cruise line will build a business model that does not rely on self destructive behavior from their customers. Until then, my $ stays on land..

 

Right, because nobody smokes on land.:D

[Gilgo Surfer]

According to you "Anything that's profitable...doesn't discontinue."

However smoking is said to be profitable to the cruiseline yet it

is being discontinued. It has been discontinued in several bars and

in the casino on some nights. At some point in the future (when not if)

it will be discontinued in all inside areas and probably most of the

remaining smoking allowed outside areas.

 

This is more politics then bottom line. In the end, it's just one less freedom that Americans have. Be careful what you ask for!

[ParrotHead79]

We sailed on the Paradise when it was smoke free and it was awesome. No smoky rooms or anywhere for that matter. However, I can see the smoker's point. If it's legal, then you should be able to do it. I do agree that there should be specific areas assigned to do so, to make sure that your smoking doesn't interfere with someone else's non-smoking.