Changing diapers

[tankersbabe]

To all of those posters who were "offended" by my post stating I was "offended" by those who suggested putting pull-down changing stations in Handicapped bathrooms simply because they are "bigger":

 

Excuses do not excuse, Yes, HC public bathrooms are "bigger", but they are "bigger" for a very valid reason, and that reason has to do with wheelchairs, walkers, specialty strollers, and aides/assistants for cruise passengers who are indeed "Handicapped". Wider entry ways, larger floor space bigger stalls with bigger doors, and raised toilets with arm rails are there for a reason, and it is NOT there to accommodate baby-changers simply because this bathroom is "bigger"!! Those that suggest this are only doing so for convenience' sake. I worked with Handicapped/Disabled students for several years, and now volunteer at a local Assisted Living facility several days each week, and often drive them to Dr. appointments or short shopping trips. I have to check out a Handicapped placard for transporting them, and return it when I bring them back. Can't tell you how many times the designated Handicapped parking spaces are occupied by ignorant and insensitive able-bodied people who think they can park there. I grapple with wheelchairs, walkers, and scooters, and it's really hard for the Handicapped/Disabled person to have to navigate much further than necessary. Yes - I've reported a few license plates. Suggesting that HC public restrooms install baby-changing stations just because they are "bigger" is - again - insulting to those passengers who rely on these facilities.

 

I blame the cruise lines. For years, several lines have been promoting "FAMILY CRUISING" but have done NOTHING to upgrade their older ships in terms of providing pools where non-toilet trained babies/toddlers can swim, nurseries and space for them, and - yes - baby changing stations in ALL non HC public restrooms. These facilities are only available on a few newer ships. They've added balconies and rock-climbing walls....but no baby changing stations. Imagine that! Leave the HC cabins AND public restrooms to those for which they were intended. In the meantime, few of us want to view you changing your baby on a pool chair or "discretely" in some corner. If you routinely take your baby for stroller walks at home, then it shouldn't be too much of a burden to take your baby back to your cabin to change a diaper. Complain to your cruise line, but in the meantime, do the right thing.

 

Honestly...I don't think anyone meant to offend ANYONE with the 'BIGGER' comment...but have you EVER tried to change a baby in a regular sized stall with a pull down thing that flops longways over the commode? Honestly...what a debacle. A little floor space is helpful. By your estimation, NO ONE should be able to use that toilet except handicapped individuals...therefore we need to give out passcards to everyone on the planet to grant or deny them access to those special toilets.

 

You are really REACHING to make that statement that it is insulting for handicapped stalls to house the baby changing table. Its worse to have one on a wall blocking the door while everyone is slamming you with the door as they come in and glaring at you because the STORE PUT THE CHANGING TABLE BEHIND THE DOOR...not you! Find something else to be insulted over. Like someone changing their baby on a chaise...worse has been done on those chaises...especially by those individuals that don't wash their hands when they finish using the bathroom.

[imsulin]

Honestly...I don't think anyone meant to offend ANYONE with the 'BIGGER' comment...but have you EVER tried to change a baby in a regular sized stall with a pull down thing that flops longways over the commode? Honestly...what a debacle. A little floor space is helpful. By your estimation, NO ONE should be able to use that toilet except handicapped individuals...therefore we need to give out passcards to everyone on the planet to grant or deny them access to those special toilets.

 

You are really REACHING to make that statement that it is insulting for handicapped stalls to house the baby changing table. Its worse to have one on a wall blocking the door while everyone is slamming you with the door as they come in and glaring at you because the STORE PUT THE CHANGING TABLE BEHIND THE DOOR...not you! Find something else to be insulted over. Like someone changing their baby on a chaise...worse has been done on those chaises...especially by those individuals that don't wash their hands when they finish using the bathroom.

 

I think you are a little/lot confused. From what I'm reading of your post, you are talking about changing tables in public LAND restrooms...stores/restaurants. Which shows your frustration. Your insinuation that "therefore we need to give out passcards to everyone on the planet to grant or deny them access to those special toilets" is really a silly statement. I think I've stated more than once my reaction to watching a Mom change her baby on a ship's pool chair, and posted what I did about it. Handicapped facilities are for Handicapped people. I think you didn't read all I've posted. :(

[tankersbabe]

I think you are a little/lot confused. From what I'm reading of your post, you are talking about changing tables in public LAND restrooms...stores/restaurants. Which shows your frustration. Your insinuation that "therefore we need to give out passcards to everyone on the planet to grant or deny them access to those special toilets" is really a silly statement. I think I've stated more than once my reaction to watching a Mom change her baby on a ship's pool chair, and posted what I did about it. Handicapped facilities are for Handicapped people. I think you didn't read all I've posted. :(

 

Apparently I read it exactly as you meant it..."Handicapped Facilities are for Handicapped people". You just said it. The rest of us need to avoid that stall at the bathroom no matter where it is...that's the way you put it.

[imsulin]

Apparently I read it exactly as you meant it..."Handicapped Facilities are for Handicapped people". You just said it. The rest of us need to avoid that stall at the bathroom no matter where it is...that's the way you put it.

 

You didn't read my previous posts, apparently, and you didn't read my posts in their entirety. I actually stated a couple of things you agreed with! Why would you or anyone intentionally use a Handicapped restroom/stall (or parking space) if you're not Handicapped? BTW - I posted "placards", not "passcards". Yes, Handicapped placards, stickers, license plates need to be applied for and confirmed before they are issued. The placards are issued to an individual or an agency, and have an expiration date. I have to sign to check one out and sign to return it to the Assisted Living facility I volunteer for. Yes. Handicapped facilities were designed to accommodate Handicapped people per the ADA, and not for people who just want an easier and larger venue in which to change babies' diapers.

[tankersbabe]

i'm not going to argue with you over handicapped spaces (my dad has a handicapped placard and so does my sister in law) but I sure as heck am not going to stand around in a bathroom and waiting on a regular stall when the bigger one is available. If a handicapped person was waiting, then they get priority. If its just me and my conscience, I'm taking the roomier stall. There is no rule against and no bathroom police that is gonna issue me a ticket.

 

Geez oh pete...we're arguing about flipping toilets here. I said passcards, not placards, and I wasn't talking about parking spaces...I was talking about handicapped restroom stalls and accessibility being restricted.

[Kerry's Girls]

If the changing table isn't in the larger stall, then how would someone in a wheelchair change their baby? I would think it would be discriminatory to put the changing table in a stall or area that is not accesible to someone in a wheelchair.

 

Best,

Mia

[imsulin]

i'm not going to argue with you over handicapped spaces (my dad has a handicapped placard and so does my sister in law) but I sure as heck am not going to stand around in a bathroom and waiting on a regular stall when the bigger one is available. If a handicapped person was waiting, then they get priority. If its just me and my conscience, I'm taking the roomier stall. There is no rule against and no bathroom police that is gonna issue me a ticket.

 

Geez oh pete...we're arguing about flipping toilets here. I said passcards, not placards, and I wasn't talking about parking spaces...I was talking about handicapped restroom stalls and accessibility being restricted.

 

Please re-read your post. I was originally talking about HC public restrooms on cruise ships. You're the one who turned it into LAND HC restrooms! Congratulations to you for being so selfish that you "will not wait around on a regular stall if a bigger one is available". My HC clients and I have seen you and "entitled" people like you using the HC stalls for your own convenience. Keep up your "entitled" work! HC people and those that care for them really love entitled attitudes like yours! You and your "conscience" are truly ignoble.

[GirlWriter]

I personally think it's a mistake to be so literal with the purpose of "handicapped" restrooms. I think those restrooms are for people with special needs -- and not all special needs fall under the "handicapped" category. For example, I was in an office building restroom once shortly after having had a C-section and needed to use the "handicapped" stall because the toilet seat was higher and it was difficult for me to sit and raise back up from the lower seat. I didn't consider myself "handicapped," but I certainly didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong when I used that stall. Ditto on the baby changing. If that's where a changing station is, and I've got a stroller with a toddler, and all of that doesn't fit into a normal stall -- which it doesn't -- and the "handicapped" stall is free, I'll use it. That, to me, is a special need.

[tankersbabe]

Please re-read your post. I was originally talking about HC public restrooms on cruise ships. You're the one who turned it into LAND HC restrooms! Congratulations to you for being so selfish that you "will not wait around on a regular stall if a bigger one is available". My HC clients and I have seen you and "entitled" people like you using the HC stalls for your own convenience. Keep up your "entitled" work! HC people and those that care for them really love entitled attitudes like yours! You and your "conscience" are truly ignoble.

 

WOWZA You sound like fun to hang out with. I didn't turn it into land HC restrooms...never did I indicate LAND or SEA or AIR or SPACE. How is it selfish when I need to pee, no other stall is available...someone is building a rocket ship in another one and the HC stall is open...that I pee in that stall, get my business done and get the heck out. Do you stand around and cross your legs because you can't cross that threshhold?

 

Where would you like the baby changing facilities be posted, over the sink? The HC stall is BIGGER...flat out...fact... it is BIGGER. LARGER...more roomy...can ACCOMMODATE.

 

If your client is in the restroom and the HC stall is available, they get first priority...not going to run them over for it, but I am NOT going to NOT use it juse because...especially with a toddler or baby in tow, because I don't exactly qualify. Take my glasses off and I am legally blind...so we all have our issues.

 

Done...finished...

[imsulin]

If the changing table isn't in the larger stall' date=' then how would someone in a wheelchair change their baby? I would think it would be discriminatory to put the changing table in a stall or area that is not accesible to someone in a wheelchair.

 

Best,

Mia[/quote']

 

Oh, I completely agree with you there! The issue is that it looks like some able-bodied people are perfectly willing to take advantage of it if changing tables were installed in HC restrooms on ships - for their own convenience.

[imsulin]

I personally think it's a mistake to be so literal with the purpose of "handicapped" restrooms. I think those restrooms are for people with special needs -- and not all special needs fall under the "handicapped" category. For example, I was in an office building restroom once shortly after having had a C-section and needed to use the "handicapped" stall because the toilet seat was higher and it was difficult for me to sit and raise back up from the lower seat. I didn't consider myself "handicapped," but I certainly didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong when I used that stall. Ditto on the baby changing. If that's where a changing station is, and I've got a stroller with a toddler, and all of that doesn't fit into a normal stall -- which it doesn't -- and the "handicapped" stall is free, I'll use it. That, to me, is a special need.

 

I certainly understand the C-section thing, but babies who need to be changed are "special needs"? Since when? There was a time when public restrooms had no HC access, and no drop-down changing tables, so I took baby to my car to change him/her. For a long time, HC public restrooms weren't available on cruise ships, either. Are you saying that IF drop-down changing tables were installed in ship's HC restrooms for the use of HC passengers with babies, you'd use it rather than go back to your cabin?

[SuperCoolOne]

Why would the changing tables be only for use by someone who is handicapped?

 

There is no sign on the changing tables that I have seen stating this when they are in the HC stalls. It is clear that in many cases, this is the only spot to put a changing table in many cases.

 

It is also usually the only stall big enough for me, a stroller and 2 kids (used to be 3 but the oldest is now able to go in stall by herself and wait when she is done.

 

And for me, if a bathroom didn't have a changing station, then yes, I found a chair or bench and used the changing pad that came with my diaper bag to do so.

 

No, I wouldn't go back to my car to change a diaper and if it had come up on the cruise. Yes, I would use a changing table regardless of location rather than going all the way back to my cabin.

[imsulin]

WOWZA You sound like fun to hang out with. I didn't turn it into land HC restrooms...never did I indicate LAND or SEA or AIR or SPACE. How is it selfish when I need to pee, no other stall is available...someone is building a rocket ship in another one and the HC stall is open...that I pee in that stall, get my business done and get the heck out. Do you stand around and cross your legs because you can't cross that threshhold?

 

Where would you like the baby changing facilities be posted, over the sink? The HC stall is BIGGER...flat out...fact... it is BIGGER. LARGER...more roomy...can ACCOMMODATE.

 

If your client is in the restroom and the HC stall is available, they get first priority...not going to run them over for it, but I am NOT going to NOT use it juse because...especially with a toddler or baby in tow, because I don't exactly qualify. Take my glasses off and I am legally blind...so we all have our issues.

 

Done...finished...

 

Yeah, you do have your issues! If you are willing to use a changing table installed in a designated ship's HC cabin for use by HC passengers, or just use a HC stall for changing purposes simply because it's bigger and more convenient for you, then, by all means, feel free to plop your baby into any ship's pool without special filtration! "Designation" apparently makes no difference to some people.

 

Again, I blame the cruise lines. Yes, there's a huge DEMAND for family-friendly cruising, but the SUPPLY of necessary venues (like public changing stations and filtrated pools) is sorely lacking! I don't think that changing stations will be installed in ship's HC restrooms anytime soon, though. Cruise lines were VERY quick to install balconies, more slides, rock-climbing walls, etc., but have done little-to nothing in terms of appropriate pools, public changing stations, nurseries, stocked and affordable diapers-baby food-bottles-formula, etc. Space is always a premium financial issue for cruise lines.

 

Again, excuses do not excuse.

[ckekjhaze]

for just a quick wet diaper I MIGHT have changed in a public area, on my lap depending on the age of the child but probably not. I would go to the cabin, definitely for a poo diaper.

 

For the HC bathrooms- I'm guilty- I had 3 babies under 2 yo and used the HC stalls so we could all fit with stroller etc, not many places you could ask a stranger to watch your kids while you use the bathroom.

 

Now my special needs sister lives with me-she is in a wheelchair and on oxygen. When she says she has to go to the bathroom- she means NOW. I advocate for her and have no problem speaking up if someone is in the HC bathroom, or next in line and that is the one that opens up. I will be taking her on a cruise this summer and that's one issue we will have to deal with. I won't try to cut to the front of a long line but I will say loudly that I need the HC stall as soon as it opens. OK this is TMI for most follks on here but while I'm in there with her and she is finished I do my business too if I need to :)

 

I agree with imsulin- although fold down changing tables should be made available to parents and caregivers who are handicapped and need to use the handicapped bathroom, the cruise ships are severely lacking in making these available to everyone. Space is at a premium and able-bodied people shouldn't be taking advantage of handicapped facilities because no others are available. Able-bodied people do have choices, someone in a wheelchair can only use an HC stall. The cruise lines need to do a better job at this- maybe a family restroom on each ship.

Kathy

[imsulin]

I think there should be at least ONE public family restroom on every DECK utilized by passengers on every ship. And at least ONE filtrated pool on every ship. And affordable baby items on every ship. Leave the HC restrooms to be used by those for whom they were intended.

[GirlWriter]

I certainly understand the C-section thing, but babies who need to be changed are "special needs"? Since when? There was a time when public restrooms had no HC access, and no drop-down changing tables, so I took baby to my car to change him/her. For a long time, HC public restrooms weren't available on cruise ships, either. Are you saying that IF drop-down changing tables were installed in ship's HC restrooms for the use of HC passengers with babies, you'd use it rather than go back to your cabin?

 

I'm not saying babies themselves are "special needs" -- I'm saying that it is a special need to have a baby that needs changing when there is noplace suitable to change him because the regular stalls aren't large enough. Just like it's a special need to be in a wheelchair and to have noplace suitable to potty because the regular stalls aren't large enough.

 

Yes, I'm saying that if there are drop-down changing tables installed in a ship's "HC" restroom, I would use it. Not because I'm too lazy or inconsiderate to go back to my room -- but because I disagree with you about the "purpose" for the stalls. I don't think they are exclusively for "HC" people -- I think they are for people with special needs who, for whatever reason -- because they're in wheelchairs, because they're morbidly obese, because they're unsteady on their feet and need the hand rails to lower and raise themselves safely -- have difficulty using the regular stalls and need more space and/or the safety features in the larger stall.

 

On the other hand, if the stall has some signage that says "For wheelchair-bound guests only," then I would go back to my room with the baby, as that to me is clear that the stall is just for wheelchair-bound guests.

 

So, again, I'm not an inconsiderate person, and I have no desire to deprive a HC person of a place to use the bathroom because I'm in there for no valid reason -- but I don't believe the larger stalls are "just" for people legally classified as "HC."

[tankersbabe]

Yeah, you do have your issues! If you are willing to use a changing table installed in a designated ship's HC cabin for use by HC passengers, or just use a HC stall for changing purposes simply because it's bigger and more convenient for you, then, by all means, feel free to plop your baby into any ship's pool without special filtration! "Designation" apparently makes no difference to some people.

 

Again, I blame the cruise lines. Yes, there's a huge DEMAND for family-friendly cruising, but the SUPPLY of necessary venues (like public changing stations and filtrated pools) is sorely lacking! I don't think that changing stations will be installed in ship's HC restrooms anytime soon, though. Cruise lines were VERY quick to install balconies, more slides, rock-climbing walls, etc., but have done little-to nothing in terms of appropriate pools, public changing stations, nurseries, stocked and affordable diapers-baby food-bottles-formula, etc. Space is always a premium financial issue for cruise lines.

 

Again, excuses do not excuse.

 

Some people are just too literal for words.

[emjsea]

i'm not going to argue with you over handicapped spaces (my dad has a handicapped placard and so does my sister in law) but I sure as heck am not going to stand around in a bathroom and waiting on a regular stall when the bigger one is available. If a handicapped person was waiting, then they get priority. If its just me and my conscience, I'm taking the roomier stall. There is no rule against and no bathroom police that is gonna issue me a ticket.

 

Geez oh pete...we're arguing about flipping toilets here. I said passcards, not placards, and I wasn't talking about parking spaces...I was talking about handicapped restroom stalls and accessibility being restricted.

Take a gander at the "disabled cruising" board and you'll get a whiff of the incredible sense of entitlement and specialness that the disabled cruisers that post there have. It's astounding.

[beachchick]

Take a gander at the "disabled cruising" board and you'll get a whiff of the incredible sense of entitlement and specialness that the disabled cruisers that post there have. It's astounding.

 

Wow. Aside from that being an incredibly sweeping generalization, the fact is that disabled cruisers often have extreme challenges to deal with and do need special accomodations. Is it any wonder that they get angry when able-bodied people intentionally book HC cabins just because "they're bigger." That, of course, means that someone in a wheelchair can't cruise at all because there are so few HC cabins.

 

And what about the "sense of entitlement" that some other groups of cruisers might have, including some of us parents (e.g., those who brag about sneaking their non-potty trained baby into the pool against the rules or wanting to know why they can't bring their 2-y/o to the adults-only venues)? Would it be fair to paint all parents with a broad brush because a few are this way? Of course not. It's also supremely unfair to paint all disabled cruisers/members with the same brush.

 

As an aside, there have been numerous posts over the years where AB members here claim that HC cruisers are "selfish" because they expect to be able to book the HC cabins and have a tad of priority for elevators (considering many can't take the stairs, is that really "selfish") or other things. Sometimes people who haven't had to deal with physical disabilities do not understand just how difficult it can be, just as people who don't have children sometimes don't understand the challenges involved.

 

Surely there is room for understanding on both sides of these issues.

 

beachchick

[mom2isabella05cole08]

If a changing table is in a public location, it's meant for the use of ANYONE who can use it. A HC stall is still a public location.

 

Now, if I'm waiting to use the bathroom and the HC stall opens up and nobody is waiting that needs that stall, then yes, I will use it. Do I wait for it or use it when other stalls are open? No, not usually. I have had a few times where there were three other stalls and three other people walked in and grabbed those stalls since I had a stroller with me, so I used the HC stall.

 

But, a public restroom is just that. It's meant to be used by anyone that needs it.

 

As for finding a discreet location to change a diaper, I have done it all many times when I'm somewhere that doesn't have a changing table. I usually try to find somewhere out of the way of others. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Now, in the particular instance posted where someone changed their baby on a lounger and then you put the dirty diaper on their stuff when they walked away, I only see that you did that because they didn't pick up their diaper and make sure it was in the garbage, not because of where they chose to change the diaper.

 

Now, my son gets distracted easily and wiggles too much in diaper changes that it's easiest to change him on a changing table in a restroom and I'm sure that most of the time I or my husband will take him back to the cabin to change him if there aren't changing tables nearby (and if he's not potty trained)

[doctordi]

Wow, I think everyone needs a time out!

[NEcruisers????]

Take a gander at the "disabled cruising" board and you'll get a whiff of the incredible sense of entitlement and specialness that the disabled cruisers that post there have. It's astounding.

 

My daughter is (dis)abled and I take offense to your remark. As her parent and one of two people that she is fully dependant upon, I would like for you to try on my shoes. Not walk in them.... just try them on. Then think about requirements vs entitlements.

There are many who feel they have entitlements, but not all.

[quincytoo]

To all of those posters who were "offended" by my post stating I was "offended" by those who suggested putting pull-down changing stations in Handicapped bathrooms simply because they are "bigger":

 

Excuses do not excuse, Yes, HC public bathrooms are "bigger", but they are "bigger" for a very valid reason, and that reason has to do with wheelchairs, walkers, specialty strollers, and aides/assistants for cruise passengers who are indeed "Handicapped". Wider entry ways, larger floor space bigger stalls with bigger doors, and raised toilets with arm rails are there for a reason, and it is NOT there to accommodate baby-changers simply because this bathroom is "bigger"!! Those that suggest this are only doing so for convenience' sake. I worked with Handicapped/Disabled students for several years, and now volunteer at a local Assisted Living facility several days each week, and often drive them to Dr. appointments or short shopping trips. I have to check out a Handicapped placard for transporting them, and return it when I bring them back. Can't tell you how many times the designated Handicapped parking spaces are occupied by ignorant and insensitive able-bodied people who think they can park there. I grapple with wheelchairs, walkers, and scooters, and it's really hard for the Handicapped/Disabled person to have to navigate much further than necessary. Yes - I've reported a few license plates. Suggesting that HC public restrooms install baby-changing stations just because they are "bigger" is - again - insulting to those passengers who rely on these facilities.

 

I blame the cruise lines. For years, several lines have been promoting "FAMILY CRUISING" but have done NOTHING to upgrade their older ships in terms of providing pools where non-toilet trained babies/toddlers can swim, nurseries and space for them, and - yes - baby changing stations in ALL non HC public restrooms. These facilities are only available on a few newer ships. They've added balconies and rock-climbing walls....but no baby changing stations. Imagine that! Leave the HC cabins AND public restrooms to those for which they were intended. In the meantime, few of us want to view you changing your baby on a pool chair or "discretely" in some corner. If you routinely take your baby for stroller walks at home, then it shouldn't be too much of a burden to take your baby back to your cabin to change a diaper. Complain to your cruise line, but in the meantime, do the right thing.

I totally understand and agree with you :)

[beachchick]

If a changing table is in a public location, it's meant for the use of ANYONE who can use it. A HC stall is still a public location.

 

Now, if I'm waiting to use the bathroom and the HC stall opens up and nobody is waiting that needs that stall, then yes, I will use it. Do I wait for it or use it when other stalls are open? No, not usually. I have had a few times where there were three other stalls and three other people walked in and grabbed those stalls since I had a stroller with me, so I used the HC stall.

 

But, a public restroom is just that. It's meant to be used by anyone that needs it.

 

As for finding a discreet location to change a diaper, I have done it all many times when I'm somewhere that doesn't have a changing table. I usually try to find somewhere out of the way of others. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Now, in the particular instance posted where someone changed their baby on a lounger and then you put the dirty diaper on their stuff when they walked away, I only see that you did that because they didn't pick up their diaper and make sure it was in the garbage, not because of where they chose to change the diaper.

 

Now, my son gets distracted easily and wiggles too much in diaper changes that it's easiest to change him on a changing table in a restroom and I'm sure that most of the time I or my husband will take him back to the cabin to change him if there aren't changing tables nearby (and if he's not potty trained)

 

(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

 

Why, how dare you write such a thoughtful, reasonable, and logical post!:p:D

 

Methinks some people like to argue for the sake of arguing, rather than to learn, think, or discuss. It makes me so sad when I read posts that are clearly meant to insult others or are based on an "us versus them" mentality.:(

 

beachchick

[imsulin]

Some people are just too literal for words.

 

And some people have raised more than a few kids and have had decades of cruising and travel experiences, with all kinds of people. Some people have learned long ago to respect the very special needs of a certain population. Some posters continue even after posting: "Done...finished". Apparently, you are not too literal for words?