Service Charges..... Tipping????

[Planer's Edge]

Can you tell me how you know this for a fact? Is it published somewhere?

 

Then who do you suppose is paying them. Does your credit card bill come with the 3% surcharge attached? I am not standing up for Luddite, he is a big boy and can handle himself just fine. It is a fact that every business (I am sure there are a few contradictions to this) in essence eats the credit card charges. Yes, their pricing may have it built in, but then shouldn't they offer a price reduction for people who do not use credit cards?

 

PE

[Don Haynes]

Can you tell me how you know this for a fact? Is it published somewhere?

 

Before making a insinuation, do you have any evidence NCL does? I didn't think so... Its another red herring...

 

This horse is dead...

[cs]

Then who do you suppose is paying them. Does your credit card bill come with the 3% surcharge attached? I am not standing up for Luddite' date=' he is a big boy and can handle himself just fine. It is a fact that every business (I am sure there are a few contradictions to this) in essence eats the credit card charges. Yes, their pricing may have it built in, but then shouldn't they offer a price reduction for people who do not use credit cards?

 

PE[/color']

 

He stated it as a matter of fact; not his assumption. I'm wondering where he's getting his facts.

[cs]

Before making a insinuation, do you have any evidence NCL does? I didn't think so... Its another red herring...

 

This horse is dead...

 

I insinuated nothing. I was asking where he was getting his information from. He stated it with authority, as if he knew for a fact...

[Don Haynes]

And the answer was very clear, every business pays the credit card fees as they make the transactions with the banks, not the crew...

 

But alike any business costs are figured into their prices and fares... Ultimately, the customer pays for everything...

 

But no one can prove a negative as positive...

 

I ask again, do you have any evidence otherwise? :cool::cool::cool::confused::confused::confused:

[cs]

And the answer was very clear, every business pays the credit card fees as they make the transactions with the banks, not the crew...

 

But alike any business costs are figured into their prices and fares... Ultimately, the customer pays for everything...

 

But no one can prove a negative as positive...

 

I ask again, do you have any evidence otherwise? :cool::cool::cool::confused::confused::confused:

 

I don't have any evidence otherwise, nor do I claim to know who pays for the credit card fees.

 

For all I know, and once again, I do NOT know, the credit card fees could be paid with the daily service charge money.

[2inTul]

Can you tell me how you know this for a fact? Is it published somewhere?

 

I believe this has been confirmed by an NCL front office employee that used to post on these boards and by numerous conversations by CC posters with Hotel Directors, etc.

 

The point is that if you pay $100 in DSC by credit card - $100 goes into the employee compensation program.

 

The 2%-3% credit card fee charged by the credit card company on your charge is paid by NCL.

[Planer's Edge]

I believe this has been confirmed by an NCL front office employee that used to post on these boards and by numerous conversations by CC posters with Hotel Directors, etc.

 

The point is that if you pay $100 in DSC by credit card - $100 goes into the employee compensation program.

 

The 2%-3% credit card fee charged by the credit card company on your charge is paid by NCL.

 

...but, it is so much easier to start rumors by throwing "stuff" against the wall and see what sticks. :rolleyes:

 

PE

[2inTul]

...but' date=' it is so much easier to start rumors by throwing "stuff" against the wall and see what sticks. :rolleyes:[/color']

 

PE

 

Ain't it the truth! :rolleyes: "Wizard of OZ" quote for the day!

[Don Haynes]

Passengers are paying over $100 per day for their fares, yet think a business would use much more than 3% of their $12 daily surcharge to pay for all of their NCL's credit card fees... Unbelieveable...

 

The stiffers have no evidence. Insinuating credit card fees to cloud the daily surcharge issue is another red herring they use, bascially throwing mud... :D:D:D;););)

[dwjoe]

I insinuated nothing. I was asking where he was getting his information from. He stated it with authority, as if he knew for a fact...

YARR!! How dare you question! You must be one of those rumor mongering, crew stiffing, chair hogging anti-NCL complainers! No more NCL gruel for you! :)

[iceman2a]

I am a very polite person (hey, I'm Canadian after all, we all know Canadians are polite :D).

 

At least all but those that live in Quebec!;)

[smeyer418]

I haven't read every post.

I used to have an unimpeachable source who is no longer at NCL.

The language used on the website was changed about a year and a half ago. It was combined to recognize both the situation on the one NCL US flagged ship and the non-US flagged ships.

On the NCL America ship all employees are paid US minimum wage and time and a half for overtime. The DSC is used for a "fleetwide" program that pays for time off and other employee related issues. In this case fleetwide means the one US flagged ship- when it was written there was more than one. I don't believe that on the US flagged ship they have to turn in any cash. Whether they do or not I don't know and I don't know if the practice there is to tip out other employees. It is supposed to be not easy to remove the DSC on that ship.

 

On the NCL non-US flagged ships all the DSC goes directly to the traditionally tipped crew. The employees when the DSC is removed are required to turn in all cash they receive from those passengers who remove it.

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. The cruise lines even absorb the credit card charge. Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit)

 

Is it possible that this has changed? yes but there would have been some discussion by someone who actually has direct knowledge and so far there hasn't been.

[luddite]

Can you tell me how you know this for a fact? Is it published somewhere?

 

It's been noted numerous times here no CC by various authorities.

I"m only referring to the card fees on the DSC. Certainly they don't eat the fees on the rest of the card transaction. Those charges are paig by the consumer, same as any business. Reality? You're paying the card fees on the DSC via your regular cruise fare, it just isn't a line item.

 

Lots of people do not understand how a business works. They think businesses pay taxes and fees. They do not. Customers pay all those fees and taxes. The businesses just shuffle the money around. Here's another tidbit---they don't have employees doing that on their own time. The people who deal with shuffling that money are being paid....by the customers.

 

When people say 'it isn't about the money', guess what? Usually, it's about the money. When people say 'I want to tip everyone individually'. they usually have a reason for not wanting tip, which the DSC isn't.

[cs]

...but' date=' it is so much easier to start rumors by throwing "stuff" against the wall and see what sticks. :rolleyes:

 

PE[/color']

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk PE. Up until now we've disagreed in a mutually respectful way. You know that I'm not starting rumors. Play fair...

[thejuliet]

I'm not sure what you're griping about. Explaining the DSC is what we do every time this subject is raised. The problem is that too many of the people starting the thread don't respond by simply saying "oh, now I understand--no problem," they come back with a zillion contrived reasons why they still don't want to pay it.

 

I guess I will never understand how someone can book a two-week cruise for four people and not expect to pay many hundreds of dollars in gratuities. Don't these people ever eat in a restaurant? Don't they know to tip the housekeeper in a hotel when they vacation? Why would they think it's any different on a cruise ship?

 

No, there are people who don't eat in restaurants on a regular basis and don't stay in hotels. I worked in a fine dining establishment for years and the ONLY time I would get stiffed on a tip would be at Christmas time and Mother's day when adult children would bring grandma out for their once a year dinner or brunch, ( here mom here's a meal you don't have to prepare for a change) tell me the service was fabulous on the $150.00 worth of food and leave $5.00. (My mandetory tip out to kitchen staff, bussers, and diswashers was 5 1/2 %) do the math. These people would cost me money! Now put those people on a cruise, and they are going to love a cruise (because everything is included right?) not a clue.

[Planer's Edge]

Tsk, tsk, tsk PE. Up until now we've disagreed in a mutually respectful way. You know that I'm not starting rumors. Play fair...

I am playing fair. I did not specifically say you were starting rumors. But, anything said in jest or in a hypothetical manner, around here, turns into fact in some people minds.

 

What is the old say...A lie is half way around the world, while the truth is putting its' shoes on.

 

PE

[dwjoe]

I haven't read every post.

I used to have an unimpeachable source who is no longer at NCL.

The language used on the website was changed about a year and a half ago. It was combined to recognize both the situation on the one NCL US flagged ship and the non-US flagged ships.

On the NCL America ship all employees are paid US minimum wage and time and a half for overtime. The DSC is used for a "fleetwide" program that pays for time off and other employee related issues. In this case fleetwide means the one US flagged ship- when it was written there was more than one. I don't believe that on the US flagged ship they have to turn in any cash. Whether they do or not I don't know and I don't know if the practice there is to tip out other employees. It is supposed to be not easy to remove the DSC on that ship.

 

On the NCL non-US flagged ships all the DSC goes directly to the traditionally tipped crew. The employees when the DSC is removed are required to turn in all cash they receive from those passengers who remove it.

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. The cruise lines even absorb the credit card charge. Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit)

 

Is it possible that this has changed? yes but there would have been some discussion by someone who actually has direct knowledge and so far there hasn't been.

Thanks for the info! :)

[thejuliet]

Here's my personal take on this phrase, I can't speak for the OP, just for myself -- I am a very polite person (hey, I'm Canadian after all, we all know Canadians are polite :D). I believe in saying please and thank you. And I believe I have said please and thank you with every question I have asked and had answered here. But within the first 10 replies, only 2 actually politely answered her question. The rest all went into the "here we go again, somebody wants to stiff the crew" thing. I'm not sure I'd want to come back again either. What do you say? "Thanks to the 2 people who answered my very legitimate question and thanks to the rest who slapped me in the face by assuming I'm a cheap ass." Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But here's something a lot of people may have missed. I notice the OP is Canadian too -- in Canada we do not tip like Americans. We do not normally tip a hotel maid - I'd never heard of that until about 10 years ago when I started traveling a lot in the USA; we do not normally tip 18-20% at a restaurant - it's more like 10-15%; the majority of Canadians would not tip a room service person in a hotel or the porter who brings your bags to your hotel room for you - and if for some reason we did, they'd only get a loonie or a toonie. ($1 or $2) That's just the way it is here. We're not doing it to "stiff" anybody. In all the scenarios that have been thrown around in this thread about going out for dinner and expecting to tip -- yep, we do the same thing. We go out for dinner and we expect to leave a tip. But what we expect to tip is a lot lower than what Americans expect to tip. Again. Not to stiff anybody, that's just the way it is here. So for the OP to say that she has a little sticker shock, I don't blame her. When I added up the lump sum of our service charges for our upcoming cruise I kind of gulped a little because it is a very large number, but I am very well traveled in the USA so I know that I am expected to tip higher and that more staff would be tipped. Canadians who are not frequent travelers to the USA actually are experiencing a true culture shock when we try to adjust to the customary tipping guidelines of the States. And because we are so "polite" we do try to adjust to the customary tipping guidelines of the States. Hence the OP's question. I hope that clears up a little of the confusion about why $432 might seem surprising to her.

 

On a trip to Las Vegas once years ago a shuttle bus driver asked me why don't Canadians tip?. (he refused to take a tip from us after asking the question just because he truly wanted to know). He told us that he made minimum wage which at the time in Nevada was around $4.00 and hour. We didn't really have an answer for him until after we left I thought about it. I was startled how low the wages in the service industry is in LV. There is NO WAY in Canada someone would be allowed to drive a large multi passenger vehicle as a job and be paid minimum wage! I also discovered that the taxi drivers are assessed tips in advance for income tax purposes I think I was told 12% of sales, and restaurant owners can include tips as part of the wage and pay less than minimum wage if a person receives tips, (shocking).

 

Most of the jobs described above I too never used to tip for,these mostly would be union jobs in Canada and better paying (if a hotel has a porter, it's probably a union hotel and better paying). Sure at the lower end hotels people cleaning the rooms won't be paid as much. All of the server positions exept at the high end hotels (and White Spot) in Canada will be minimum wage.

 

I dissagree the minimum tip in Canada is 10% it's more like 15% - 18%. I tip more in the states as well because the wages are so poor and the whole medical coverage thing. It's the price we pay for getting some sun.:D

[erdoran]

I haven't read every post.

I used to have an unimpeachable source who is no longer at NCL.

The language used on the website was changed about a year and a half ago. It was combined to recognize both the situation on the one NCL US flagged ship and the non-US flagged ships.

On the NCL America ship all employees are paid US minimum wage and time and a half for overtime. The DSC is used for a "fleetwide" program that pays for time off and other employee related issues. In this case fleetwide means the one US flagged ship- when it was written there was more than one. I don't believe that on the US flagged ship they have to turn in any cash. Whether they do or not I don't know and I don't know if the practice there is to tip out other employees. It is supposed to be not easy to remove the DSC on that ship.

 

On the NCL non-US flagged ships all the DSC goes directly to the traditionally tipped crew. The employees when the DSC is removed are required to turn in all cash they receive from those passengers who remove it.

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. The cruise lines even absorb the credit card charge. Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit)

 

Is it possible that this has changed? yes but there would have been some discussion by someone who actually has direct knowledge and so far there hasn't been.

 

 

Thank you smeyer, I think you have conclusively and satisfactorily answered OP's question. My personal opinion is that this is a super, appropriate answer to the question, especially combined with the info from globalizer & in here about what happens to cash tips if the DSC is removed, and should be solid enough for someone who questions whether or not crew get DSC and if they should tip directly to realize that the best (and really only) option is to leave the DSC in place, and if they want to recognize someone for extra service, then give them an additional tip.

 

BTW someone commented there is no way to leave an extra tip short of cash...well, not quite....on the Epic every bill I got for extra cost services had an autotip on it, and a line for "extra tip" besides! Don't consider the extra tip mandatory, but leave the auto tip in place, and add an extra tip there if you think the person deserves it for "above and beyond" service.

[sottovoce]

Thank you smeyer, I think you have conclusively and satisfactorily answered OP's question.

You really haven't been paying attention at all, have you, erdoran. OP's question was "conclusively" answered by jame_g in posting #2 of this thread--a posting made twelve minutes after hers, yet never acknowledged by OP.

 

Here it is, because you clearly missed it:

 

Yes, you are out of touch. Most mainstream cruise lines do it this way now. It is best to leave the service charge alone unless you actually have a service complaint, report it, and it continues or is not resolved.

[erdoran]

You really haven't been paying attention at all, have you, erdoran. OP's question was "conclusively" answered by jame_g in posting #2 of this thread--a posting made twelve minutes after hers, yet never acknowledged by OP.

 

Here it is, because you clearly missed it:

 

I'm not going to debate the merits of the different posts with you. I found the specifics on smeyers post more compelling.

[sottovoce]

I'm not going to debate the merits of the different posts with you. I found the specifics on smeyers post more compelling.

Yes, always good to duck the issue when caught with egg on your face.

[mamagina]

Not avoiding it. Had you done a search, you would have seen this question asked & answered a dozen times at least.

 

 

The answer is 100%, plus NCL absorbs the admin, and the credit card processing fees.

 

Thank you for answering my question. It was much easier to ask it here than search. I knew somone would know the answer. I did not know that NCL absorbs the credit card fees. It would never have occured to me that they would deduct them.

[sjbdtz]

BTW someone commented there is no way to leave an extra tip short of cash...well, not quite....on the Epic every bill I got for extra cost services had an autotip on it, and a line for "extra tip" besides! Don't consider the extra tip mandatory, but leave the auto tip in place, and add an extra tip there if you think the person deserves it for "above and beyond" service.

 

While it applied to Butler & Concierge, I'm told it could be done for any staff. Just go to the front desk and tell them you'd like to add an extra tip for X. They'll fill out a charge slip, and give you two copies. You can keep one receipt, and if you are so-inclined, can give the other to your tippee so that they know to watch for the credit on their account.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for answering my question. It was much easier to ask it here than search. I knew somone would know the answer. I did not know that NCL absorbs the credit card fees. It would never have occured to me that they would deduct them.

 

Yes, easier for you (1 person). Not easier for the 2 dozen people who took THEIR time to look up and/or type the answer for you.... :rolleyes:

 

That's why they leave the history in place to be searchable.....