Update on economics - keep on booking Windstar

[msu]

keep on booking Windstar

 

Windstar's parent squeaks out Q3 operating profit

 

Windstar Cruises parent company Ambassadors International, reported operating income of $600,000 for the third quarter, compared to an operating loss of $32.7 million for the same period a year ago.

 

"There is still uncertainty in the economy and the travel market continues to be challenging," CEO Hans Birkholz said in a statement. "As a result, we continue to experience significant pressure on price points.

 

"While we remain optimistic about our advance bookings for 2011 for both our charter and FIT business, the economy still has not fully recovered, and the company continues to be impacted by this,” Birkholz stated. "Our plan for 2011 is to continue to aggressively market Windstar’s value proposition in conjunction with strong offers to drive revenue."

 

Revenue for the three months ended Sept. 30 increased 12%, to $19.8 million. The increase in revenue was primarily due to increased net passenger fares during the third quarter.

[NikonQueen]

My husband and I cruised Windstar for the first time late October of this year and had taken advantage of some early booking incentives during the first of the year. As much as we loved our cruise and Windstar it is highly unlikely that we will book with them again for the following reasons.

 

During our cruise it was apparent that a good number of couples had booked last minute through a discounter site (which I will not name). They all seemed very proud of the price they paid and pretty much gloated about it all week. It brought a different type of clientel to the ship, one example would be some wore jeans in the dining room in the evening, with nothing ever said to them.

 

I certainly understand the need to fill the ship and discount the remaining cabins, but it just didn't sit well with us. Perhaps it was the way it was handled. I think if they would of acknowledged us in some manner, even an extra $100 ship board credit or an opportunity to upgrade our cabin, to say thanks for booking early and supporting us, we would have left with a better feeling about Windstar.

 

It was very apparent to us that the last minute clientel brought on board will never book again with Windstar, as they will always be looking for the deal, and it will be a lot of short term gains and long term losses.

 

Just our perspective....

[msu]

Well expressed. It seems to be the same with many cruise lines that they get a influx of customers who buy based on price only or mainly. Hence customer's may not be the profile customer the cruise lines has it's normal profile customer base and are one time customers being pricing can rise back to higher levels or a better offer is available with a different line.

 

One way this is being counted is Seabourn now has cut off dates to sale pricing after the advertised sale is over the price will go up again. Still does not respond to your observations.

 

Another interesting observation more specialty and luxury upper end lines are doing Caribbean, Costa Rica, and Panama Canal this winter. These destinations usually bring a more causal and or laid back customer and price tends to be very competitive to fill ships being every line has such an itinerary but ships do fill up and customers pay both high and low fares.

 

I think in todays ruff competitive economy we will see more of the whatever it takes to fill the ship philosophy pricing wise as well as less definition in quality of cruise companies more will cross the lines by lower pricing to maybe fill the ship one more time verses long term customer strategies.

 

We get surprised offended and forget as a customer of the business side to things many times example look at the demise and redefinition of the US auto market place. Things change markets change competition changes and corporate responds in a way not always pro the consumer at least as we view it. I do not support this philosophy full but understand it as a business person.

[NikonQueen]

I also completely understand it from a business perpective, but do not personally agree with it.

 

Next time we are looking to book a cruise, we will research the company that fits the price point we are willing to pay (certainly not the lowest) with the level of service we expect and of course the itinerary we are looking for. We like to travel with like minded people and I don't think most of the people that Windstar is attracting through the discounter sites fit that criteria (sorry, I am not meaning to offend anyone).

 

It's too bad though, initially Windstar was a good fit for us, but not any more.

[dbr1990]

NikoQueen,

If you look at several websites, there are last minute discounted rates for any cruise line in operation. If you are in a position to leave on a moments notice, there are some down right bargains. Whether it is Carnival, or Crystal, you will always see this. This is good business. They need to fill the ship if possible. The economy is such that the fares may substantially lower than what is paid by customers that pre plan trips far in advance.

All that being said, I cruised the Med October this year on Wind Surf and it was great. Part of the pleasure of Windstar is that it is NOT formal attire, and it is a relaxed atmosphere. I don't believe you should blame windstar for a few gloating guests.

I would highly recomend Windstar. In fact I have booked another cruise already.

I hope one day that I get to take advantage of a last minute deal, but for now I will just accept the fact that I will pay a little more than some of the others to have a wonderful trip.

[commodoredave]

I think one of the key issues is how cruise lines who do last-minute discounts treat their loyal customers who book early. I don't get upset if someone sailing with me paid less in upfront cash, but I do expect to get some kind of incentive such as a cabin upgrade, onboard credit, etc. The lines that do this keep their loyal clients loyal.

[chicagogal]

I think one of the key issues is how cruise lines who do last-minute discounts treat their loyal customers who book early. I don't get upset if someone sailing with me paid less in upfront cash, but I do expect to get some kind of incentive such as a cabin upgrade, onboard credit, etc. The lines that do this keep their loyal clients loyal.

 

Well said. I agree.

 

We have had the Holy land booked for Oct 2011 since April (It will be our 10th Windstar cruise). We'll see how it goes, I guess. We DID get a free upgrade to a suite last time (May 2009 on Windsurf) and we really appreciated it.

 

This Holy land trip is not inexpensive - actually more per person per day than our several recent Silversea trips, which are also all inclusive. I feel there is some real value there (at Silversea and also Seabourn) now. Of course those "abnormally" low fares are what attracted us to Silversea, (although not last minute and not from a discounter) so, in some ways, we are no different than others mentioned by the OP. (We do know how to dress for dinner though!) :)

 

Patty

[NikonQueen]

I think one of the key issues is how cruise lines who do last-minute discounts treat their loyal customers who book early. I don't get upset if someone sailing with me paid less in upfront cash, but I do expect to get some kind of incentive such as a cabin upgrade, onboard credit, etc. The lines that do this keep their loyal clients loyal.

 

Commodoredave, that is exactly what we were thinking and Windstar did NOT do this. They gave the same shipboard credit to the discount cruisers with no acknowledgement to the clients that had been supporting them with early bookings.

[commodoredave]

Commodoredave, that is exactly what we were thinking and Windstar did NOT do this. They gave the same shipboard credit to the discount cruisers with no acknowledgement to the clients that had been supporting them with early bookings.

 

That certainly is NOT the way to keep my business. I have always thought that loyalty should be a two-way street.

[mexicobob]

My husband and I cruised Windstar for the first time late October of this year and had taken advantage of some early booking incentives during the first of the year. As much as we loved our cruise and Windstar it is highly unlikely that we will book with them again for the following reasons.

 

During our cruise it was apparent that a good number of couples had booked last minute through a discounter site (which I will not name). They all seemed very proud of the price they paid and pretty much gloated about it all week. It brought a different type of clientel to the ship, one example would be some wore jeans in the dining room in the evening, with nothing ever said to them.

 

I certainly understand the need to fill the ship and discount the remaining cabins, but it just didn't sit well with us. Perhaps it was the way it was handled. I think if they would of acknowledged us in some manner, even an extra $100 ship board credit or an opportunity to upgrade our cabin, to say thanks for booking early and supporting us, we would have left with a better feeling about Windstar.

 

It was very apparent to us that the last minute clientel brought on board will never book again with Windstar, as they will always be looking for the deal, and it will be a lot of short term gains and long term losses.

 

Just our perspective....

 

I saw a picture of Bill Gates who is worth hundreds of billions of dollars dressed in jeans. Guess he is not worth dining with you.

MexicoBob

[NikonQueen]

I saw a picture of Bill Gates who is worth hundreds of billions of dollars dressed in jeans. Guess he is not worth dining with you.

MexicoBob

 

MexicoBob, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Windstar. They specifically state that no jeans should be worn in the dining room during the evening.

Typically, jeans is all that I wear to dinner, but when cruising on Windstar I have respect for their policies and the other customers on the ship.

[travelerpair]

We used to sail on Windstar,but it has changed. Nothing says luxury like a table selling T shirts outside the dinning room. The old company (Holland America) held the brand to a standard and the passengers knew it. A discount was rare, as the repeat passenger count was so high. I love a discount and shop the internet for every cruise we take, but Windstar is not worth more than a deep discount. This has changed the passengers. Sorry to say a higher price brought with it higher expectations of product and more people that traveled frequently. Always ended up with a group ot 10 or more new friends. Most have gone to other cruise lines along with us. We share your disapointment.

[OSU grad]

Just came off Windspirit a week ago and there were no t shirts for sale anywhere. This was our 4th cruise with them, Tahiti, Barbados, Costa Rica and Caribbean. First class on all cruises. Can't wait to go again.

[Snow cat]

Thanks OSU Grad...looking forward to our upcoming Windspirit cruise (our 3rd Windstar).

 

We've cruised with them when Holland America were the owners, and afterward, with no difference in quality or service. Windstar is still the best.

[Mands&Ian]

MexicoBob, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Windstar. They specifically state that no jeans should be worn in the dining room during the evening.

Typically, jeans is all that I wear to dinner, but when cruising on Windstar I have respect for their policies and the other customers on the ship.

 

And it is a policy that is usually enforced, whoever is onboard. I've recounted before the tale of walking into the dining room behind customers who were wearing sweatpants and were turned away and asked to return only when they were appropriately dressed. In five trips I've never seen jeans in the dining room and that includes a week where a significant number of cabins had been sold via a private sale/discounter site.

 

Out of interest I took a spin around half a dozen of the private sale/discounter sites yesterday and it seems that more of the cruise lines are using them as a sales route. I found deals for Star Clippers, Princess, Seabourn and Silversea so it seems that moving up to a six star and/or all inclusive line won't solve the problem. Ultimately it has to be down to the cruise line to decide if/how they compensate early bookers.

 

Happy holidays,

Mands

[lovecruisingtoo]

I think Windstar needs to find a middle ground on pricing such that they can fill cabins without providing deep discounts via special web sites. Not having the "lowest available fare" on their web page lowers the credibility and stature of Windstar - plus upsetting loyal passengers that have booked early. For example, right now the July 30 Surf is priced on the Windstar site at $2,649 per person (about $375 per day). In an email that came out today from one of the discount sites the price is $1,699 per person. As you can see, it is not just a normal commission discount that is given by some online agents.

 

Bottom line, is Windstar worth the price (as listed on the Windstar site) compared to the competition? Since they are offering such deep discounts 6 months before sailing, most people must not think so.

 

If they were to find a middle ground for pricing, and hold to it, I believe they would make the passengers happier and also fill the cabins.

[SailorJM]

I'm with OSU Grad...in fact I actually was WITH OSU Grad--met her on the Wind Star in Costa Rica earlier this year. And like her, it was not my first Wind Star cruise, and like her, I was more than pleased with everything. No complaints.

 

Sailor JM in San Diego

(Ahoy OSU Grad.....hope all is well with you guys!)

[c&d]

We are looking at bookng a windstar cruise, based upon the recommendation of family. As I reviewed all the previous post. I now feel like Mrs. Cheapo. I am one of those persons who books last minute. I tend to think short term when it comes to doing a cruise.

 

We have done several big box cruises, they also tend to offer last minute discounts to passengers who book short notice. That I also find frustrating when I know I booked 6 weeks out only to find if I had waited until 3 weeks prior to sailing I could have saved a few hunderd dollars.

 

I guess what I am saying is I hope passengers who book in advance do not turn their noses up at me for waiting until last minute to book a cruise and pay less than they did. However I do agree that the cruises line whether it be the big box lines or smaller more intimate lines they offer obc or upgrades to those who booked and paid for their cruises in advance.

 

We all work hard for our money esp in this tough economy we all deserve the same compensations whether it be obc or reduced fares.

 

I enjoyed reading all the comments both positive and negative on Windstar. We will be booking a windstar cruise in the next year or so. I have seen a few big box cruise lines doing some bargain pricing that had resulted in some cruise passengers who would normally not take a cruise if the price had not been so darn cheap. Those few passengers leave a foul taste with me, when I think about booking a future cruise.

[commodoredave]

We are looking at bookng a windstar cruise, based upon the recommendation of family. As I reviewed all the previous post. I now feel like Mrs. Cheapo. I am one of those persons who books last minute. I tend to think short term when it comes to doing a cruise.

 

We have done several big box cruises, they also tend to offer last minute discounts to passengers who book short notice. That I also find frustrating when I know I booked 6 weeks out only to find if I had waited until 3 weeks prior to sailing I could have saved a few hunderd dollars.

 

I guess what I am saying is I hope passengers who book in advance do not turn their noses up at me for waiting until last minute to book a cruise and pay less than they did. However I do agree that the cruises line whether it be the big box lines or smaller more intimate lines they offer obc or upgrades to those who booked and paid for their cruises in advance.

 

We all work hard for our money esp in this tough economy we all deserve the same compensations whether it be obc or reduced fares.

 

I enjoyed reading all the comments both positive and negative on Windstar. We will be booking a windstar cruise in the next year or so. I have seen a few big box cruise lines doing some bargain pricing that had resulted in some cruise passengers who would normally not take a cruise if the price had not been so darn cheap. Those few passengers leave a foul taste with me, when I think about booking a future cruise.

 

I have nothing but admiration for people who can bag a bargain cruise rate at thet last minute. But if cruise lines hand out last-minute bargains at the expense of clients who book early, it will only cause early bookers to become last-minute bookers, or to take their patronage elsewhere. If that's the behaviour that cruise lines want to encourage, then some of them are doing a good job.

[c&d]

Being the last minute booker that I am. I think even if I had to pay more for a cruise than I would have if I had booked 18months in advance I probably would still wait until last minute and pay the higher price. I have learned to wait until last minute, when I plan in advance for a vacation or a vacation that I am excited about the other shoe usually drops and something goes wrong.

 

I will be looking at doing a windstar cruise only problem is I need to save some money to pay for it.

 

Windstar appears more expensive than the big box cruise lines as I put it.

 

However from what I have heard and read the extra cost is worth it. I get the impression after a week on a windstar cruise I will come home rested and relaxed. I will not have memories of a few disrespectful people or as my friends who cruised with us last spring break put it about a group who she referred to as the Beverly Hillbillies these people were ahead of us in the VIP line it was not a pretty sight I have to say I felt bad for the Carnival crew members working at the embarkation port. But you get all kinds on a cruise lines.

[commodoredave]

Being the last minute booker that I am. I think even if I had to pay more for a cruise than I would have if I had booked 18months in advance I probably would still wait until last minute and pay the higher price. I have learned to wait until last minute, when I plan in advance for a vacation or a vacation that I am excited about the other shoe usually drops and something goes wrong.

 

I will be looking at doing a windstar cruise only problem is I need to save some money to pay for it.

 

Windstar appears more expensive than the big box cruise lines as I put it.

 

However from what I have heard and read the extra cost is worth it. I get the impression after a week on a windstar cruise I will come home rested and relaxed. I will not have memories of a few disrespectful people or as my friends who cruised with us last spring break put it about a group who she referred to as the Beverly Hillbillies these people were ahead of us in the VIP line it was not a pretty sight I have to say I felt bad for the Carnival crew members working at the embarkation port. But you get all kinds on a cruise lines.

 

I have come across a lot more Beverly Hillbillies on Carnival and NCL than I have on the premium lines like Princess, Celebrity, and Cunard, nevermind the luxury lines like Regent, Seabourn and Crystal. It's one of the reasons I no longer sail on Carnival and NCL.

[SailorJM]

There is absolutely NO comparison between big box cruise and a Windstar cruise!!! Windstar is far, far superior...unless you really like traveling with 2500 or more of your "best" friends. Service, atmosphere, crew, cabin.....all is just that much better. And even tho it costs me more, I will gladly pay it to be able to enjoy that lifestyle, if only for a week at a time.....on Windstar or the other tall ship sailing cruises. But Windstar is the cream of that crop.

[JoturCruise]

This will be our first Windstar Cruise (1/8/11 out of St. Martin). What do passengers wear to dinner. I was going to bring some nice sundresses that are not too dressy, but should be considered dressy casual. Will wear dressy sandals. Will that be okay or too dressy? What should my husband wear for dinner? Thanks for any insight!

[6rugrats]

This will be our first Windstar Cruise (1/8/11 out of St. Martin). What do passengers wear to dinner. I was going to bring some nice sundresses that are not too dressy, but should be considered dressy casual. Will wear dressy sandals. Will that be okay or too dressy? What should my husband wear for dinner? Thanks for any insight!

 

To give you an idea of women's dress; one of my standard outfits for dinner is a silk broomstick skirt or nice linen pants, a silk top, either a shell or one with sleeves, and perhaps a wrap or silk cardigan with dressy sandals. Change it up by adding a scarf or jewelry. A nice sundress will be fine and dressy sandals are definately not too much. There was a post a while back from someone who wished they had not packed so casually. It's not dressed up, but it's definately nice for most passengers.

 

Your husband should wear Docker type pants and a polo shirt/linen shirt/or nice cotton shirt.

[JoturCruise]

Thanks for the dress code advice - that really helps!