Cruising...the magic is gone

[greatam]

[quote name='Sargent_Schultz']

Your Hartmann costs more than many cruises.[/QUOTE]

And your point is???? Hartmann luggage is extremely well made, has a super warranty and service is available worldwide in some very strange places (just like Mercedes Benz). When you travel as much as I do for business, you surely wouldn't advocate getting the same type of luggage as a leisure traveler would buy, would you???


[quote name='Sargent_Schultz']

My packing list is not your problem or your business,[/QUOTE]

The very, very common post is "luggage weight". Don't want to pay extra for formal clothes. And my response-why did you bring all that "stuff"? Not clothes, but all the "stuff" some feel they need to bring. THAT takes up the luggage weight, not formal clothes


[quote name='Sargent_Schultz']

and neither is what I choose to wear. [/QUOTE]

Nothing worse in my book than sitting in a formal dining room with waiters in white jackets, the Captain in his dress whites and some slob shows up and sits at the next table in his casual slacks, t shirt and ball cap. Just really, really ruins the ambiance of the entire evening. Might as well gone to TGIF's, Appleby's, Olive Garden, etc. etc. Again, has nothing to do with money-it is all about DECORUM, practicing a little etiquette and having respect for your fellow passengers.

[greatam]

[quote name='happy cruzer']A few cruisers feel like you do however the majority of the public seems to be going for more relaxed dress codes. It's not just the demographic that is being targetted with the label WALMART. Every cruise line even the luxury ones are loosening their dress codes, some still do have a code but it is laxer than in the past. You are a business person, you must understand that a large cruise line must adapt to the tastes of the majority. It is what it is.[/QUOTE]

As I see it, capacity has more to do with relaxing the dress codes than anything else. The more berths you have to fill week after week, the more you will do ANYTHING To fill those berths. And as I posted previously, the attitude now is come one, come all-anything to get those berths filled.

In my own business, my analysts and managers talked me into buying some more trucks. So before the end of the year, I bought 4 new tractors and trailers and leased on two more permanent owner/operators. NOW I have to fill those trailers up to make money. Just like the cruise lines, I am now taking freight at rates we wouldn't have thought about 6 months ago. Capacity, capacity, capacity. And two of the drivers HR hired were NOT drivers I would have hired (which instituted a new rule-NO hires without my personal approval). Driving records are perfect, but they don't fit the company "image". So did I take less than what I am accustomed to and what we built our company image and reputation on??? Yes-just like the cruise lines.

[Karysa]

[quote name='spongerob']You've missed my point, but at least you haven't totally missed the boat as Sarge has. The problem with ultra-cheap drive-thru cruising is that people tend to view it not as something special but as little more than a trip to the Walmart.

The cruise lines (mostly) aren't listening either. We get bigger, cheaper, and gaudier, when we ask for the opposite and lose everything that made cruising fun. Heck, you can't even dock the biggest ships at many ports.

I wish you as well on your cruise to the same extent that you well-wish me.[/quote]

I disagree to a point. I think that the cruise lines are listening. If they are easily filling up 3,000 passenger ships, then 4 and 5, they will continue. There are still smaller lines with smaller ships and more refined amenities and service available for those who are looking for that. It seems to me that the problem is that some who are looking for that want to pay the same price as the mass market lines.

[momofmeg]

[quote name='Karysa']I disagree to a point. I think that the cruise lines are listening. If they are easily filling up 3,000 passenger ships, then 4 and 5, they will continue. There are still smaller lines with smaller ships and more refined amenities and service available for those who are looking for that. It seems to me that the problem is that some who are looking for that want to pay the same price as the mass market lines.[/QUOTE]

True- I guess I am one of them to an extent- you know that has a beer budget but wants champagne-and it does seem that there are a lot of people cruising now that by their dress I assume they make under $50,000 a year. Please don't take that snobbish-but when I see a person wearing something fairly worn and faded to dinner in the evening whether it is shorts, jeans, or even dressier clothing-I have to think they have nothing better, and I can't help but wonder how they could afford the cruise. I assume they paid by credit card and plan to takes years to pay for the cruise, or else they were given the crusie as a gift.

I also say please don't take this post snobbish-because about 15 years ago, that was my husband and I. We had a lot of medical bills because of our daughter and so we could barely afford a long week end trip, much less a week in Florida. A cruise of any kind was out of the question. We are not the type to put things we can't really afford on credit cards.

[Karysa]

[quote name='momofmeg']True- I guess I am one of them to an extent- you know that has a beer budget but wants champagne-and it does seem that there are a lot of people cruising now that by their dress I assume they make under $50,000 a year. Please don't take that snobbish-but when I see a person wearing something fairly worn and faded to dinner in the evening whether it is shorts, jeans, or even dressier clothing-I have to think they have nothing better, and I can't help but wonder how they could afford the cruise. I assume they paid by credit card and plan to takes years to pay for the cruise, or else they were given the crusie as a gift.

I also say please don't take this post snobbish-because about 15 years ago, that was my husband and I. We had a lot of medical bills because of our daughter and so we could barely afford a long week end trip, much less a week in Florida. A cruise of any kind was out of the question. We are not the type to put things we can't really afford on credit cards.[/quote]

Wow, big assumptions. Maybe they saved for the cruise of a lifetime and chose to reuse, and recycle their clothing and pay for the trip in cash. If you want first class treatment then seek it out and pay for it or go with the flow.

[vineyard2]

Well not to tell all of my business. But I had to respond! My income is well into the 100,000+ by myself and I shop for my family everywhere including the following: Target, Walmart, CWD Kids, Polo, Banana Republic, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn Kids, Neiman Marcus, Goodwill, Salvation Army etc. On the cruise my son will have on maybe a lacoste $50 shirt with a pair of shorts from target. Or a target shirt and a pair of polo sneakers. I might wear a dress from BGBG with some GAP flip flops and DH may wear a Hugo Boss linen suit with flip flops are we of the "lower class" ....oh please spare me with this nonsense.:eek:

[Hlitner]

WOW! Not quite sure where this thread is trying to go but lets step back and look at the cruise industry. It is a very dynamic industry and has undergone many changes in the past few years. But, there are certainly ships and lines to satisfy most folks. Sure, you have the mega-ship mass-market lines which satisfies a big niche for those looking for a huge floating resort. You have the medium size ships in both mass-market and luxury markets that satisfy those looking for something a bit more upscale. And you have smaller ships in mass-market, luxury market and ultra luxury markets for those looking for that experience. So we are not sure why folks get in a "huff" on this and other threads. We used to consider RCI our favorite cruise line and tried to get on one of their ships whenever possible. These days, we have generally outgrown RCI and now prefer ships of other lines (both mass market and luxury). When you look at the RCI boards you will see lots of threads about the dress code, how to sneak booze aboard, etc. On our last RCI cruise we saw a teen wearing a wool snow hat in the MDR on a formal night and his Dad had on a baseball cap. That might be fine for some but not for all. Those of us looking for a different type of fellow passenger must simply migrate to lines that tend to attract our own kind of crowd (there are always exceptions). I must admit it was fun to be on the Queen Mary 2 where nearly everyone was very well dressed on formal nights (3 out of 6 crossing nights were formal and 2 semi-formal). We actually saw folks turned away from the MDR because men did not have on a tie. Those that wanted to attend the amazing Balls (the Black and White Ball had a 17 piece big band orchestra) had to be appropriately dressed or they could simply skip the ball (their choice). We enjoyed that experience (it is what cruising used to be many years ago) but certainly understand others perferring a more informal experience. When we cruised on Azamara we enjoyed not having to get dressed-up on any night (did not even take a sport jacket on that line). My point is that there is something out there for everyone's taste. On the other hand, its hard to totally escape folks with no class or manners that thing everything is about them, rules are meaningless, etc. They are everywhere :)

 

Hank

[pb3]

I'm surprised no one has suggested trying a river cruise - Holland, Norway, Russia, France, Germany, and more all await! At most ports you simply step off the boat and enjoy a walking tour of some of the most amazing cities and towns in Europe. Or want about going the other direction and try an Arctic or Antartica adventure, or the Galapagos.

[jewopaho]

WOW! Not quite sure where this thread is trying to go but lets step back and look at the cruise industry. It is a very dynamic industry and has undergone many changes in the past few years. But, there are certainly ships and lines to satisfy most folks. Sure, you have the mega-ship mass-market lines which satisfies a big niche for those looking for a huge floating resort. You have the medium size ships in both mass-market and luxury markets that satisfy those looking for something a bit more upscale. And you have smaller ships in mass-market, luxury market and ultra luxury markets for those looking for that experience. So we are not sure why folks get in a "huff" on this and other threads. We used to consider RCI our favorite cruise line and tried to get on one of their ships whenever possible. These days, we have generally outgrown RCI and now prefer ships of other lines (both mass market and luxury). When you look at the RCI boards you will see lots of threads about the dress code, how to sneak booze aboard, etc. On our last RCI cruise we saw a teen wearing a wool snow hat in the MDR on a formal night and his Dad had on a baseball cap. That might be fine for some but not for all. Those of us looking for a different type of fellow passenger must simply migrate to lines that tend to attract our own kind of crowd (there are always exceptions). I must admit it was fun to be on the Queen Mary 2 where nearly everyone was very well dressed on formal nights (3 out of 6 crossing nights were formal and 2 semi-formal). We actually saw folks turned away from the MDR because men did not have on a tie. Those that wanted to attend the amazing Balls (the Black and White Ball had a 17 piece big band orchestra) had to be appropriately dressed or they could simply skip the ball (their choice). We enjoyed that experience (it is what cruising used to be many years ago) but certainly understand others perferring a more informal experience. When we cruised on Azamara we enjoyed not having to get dressed-up on any night (did not even take a sport jacket on that line). My point is that there is something out there for everyone's taste. On the other hand, its hard to totally escape folks with no class or manners that think everything is about them, rules are meaningless, etc. They are everywhere :)

 

Hank

 

Right on the money, Hank! Back in "the day," cruising was almost exclusively for the affluent (primarily retirees). As they died off, and economic times became more volatile, the demographic shrank considerably, leading to (in various stages) what the cruise industry has morphed into today. Yet there are variations on the theme ... a week aboard the Oasis of the Seas bears little resemblance to one on the Island Princess. Carnival and Seabourn are under the same corporate umbrella, but that's where the similarity ends. Some lines are noted for catering to older passengers, others to party animals. Look hard enough, and you'll find your niche cruise line (or ship). Yes, there are the oddballs at every level ... but as long as they don't interact directly with me, I ignore them. None of what has transpired over the years has dampened my enthusiasm for cruising. Smooth sailing to all ...

 

Al

[mr green]

At school we read a short story 'Ichabod', and we were told that the translation was 'The glory IS departed' no HAS.

Very briefly a veteran traveler took his cherished suitcase to leather worker to have its handle replaced, however, when he went to retrieve it, he found that it had been cleaned and polished as well,and EVERY DESTINATION LABEL for the past ten years had been removed. Hence the title.

I wonder if the O P can relate to this story.

 

john

[greatam]

Well not to tell all of my business. But I had to respond! My income is well into the 100,000+ by myself and I shop for my family everywhere including the following: Target, Walmart, CWD Kids, Polo, Banana Republic, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn Kids, Neiman Marcus, Goodwill, Salvation Army etc. On the cruise my son will have on maybe a lacoste $50 shirt with a pair of shorts from target. Or a target shirt and a pair of polo sneakers. I might wear a dress from BGBG with some GAP flip flops and DH may wear a Hugo Boss linen suit with flip flops are we of the "lower class" ....oh please spare me with this nonsense.:eek:

 

You just proved the point!!! High income, NO DECORUM.

 

Obviously, you feel no compunction about upsetting your fellow passengers with your CASUAL dress on formal nights. Hugo Boss suit and flip flops??? The chances of you being in the J Lo class are not large. What a slam to designer clothing UNLESS you fit in the stretch limo/20 person entourage class.

 

It is all about DECORUM and proper manners/etiquette. Damn, I am soooo glad we are doing fewer and fewer cruises.

[southsider]

Sounds like you are looking for an experience you haven't had yet, and that's difficult because you've cruised so much. I agree with you that it's time to do some land-based vacations. Mix it up with where you go and how you get there. Then, even if your experience is more "Carnival" than "Crystal", you won't have much to compare it to, and you'll enjoy it just the same. Once you've stayed away from cruising for several years, you may want to experience it again. But if you're looking for it to be less "mass-market", I'm afraid it probably won't be. At one time we thought the enormous ships would be more fun, but we've discovered they're just too much for us. But then our idea of a vacation has nothing to do with drinking, dancing, or partying. Good luck with your road trips and your other land-based vacations!

[vineyard2]

No you're wrong... DH will be driving my Benzo to the port garage wearing a white linen suit, supersize sun-glasses, and FLIP Damn Flops!!! Whahoooo!!!:D

Don't like stretch limo's sorry. But I am wearing my Flip-flops underneath my fabulous Rachel Roy dress for formal night!!!!

Look, I am not going to "knock" someone over their attire on a cruiseship. Its is not the Q2. Its a ship carrying people from all over the world with different SES ( socio-economic status) who like you deserve the right to have fun!!! I don't intend to be offended by anyone who wears clothes that does not shout "Bling-Bling!! I am going to rent a Cabana, have fabulous martini's, have breakfast on my balcony, go on excursions, gamble, dance, flirt with my DH, and have fun with my Fellow "Walmart" cruisers!!!!:D

 

Lighten up...life its too short for dumb stuff.

[vineyard2]

Greatam..the designers could care less about my flip flops...in this economy they are happy we buy their clothes..because at the end of the day, its all about C.R.E.A.M ( cash rules everything around me).

[YOW]

First off, we have cruised with Spongerob, and I can say definitively that he is not a snob.

 

Rob, I'm sorry that cruising has lost its lustre for you. Sounds like you're taking some necessary steps in trying to reinvigorate the side of your life that had been fulfilled previously by taking cruises. I hope things go well for you and that you find much enjoyment and pleasure. :)

 

For us, cruising has remained a great component of our travels. Since taking our first cruise together, DW and I have generally alternated between cruises and land vacations; and within cruising, alternated between Celebrity (still our favourite) and other lines. We recently sailed Celebrity Solstice, and thoroughly enjoyed this next generation of vessels. We tend to pay less attention to the passengers around us, and more to the experience provided by the ship and its crew. We enjoy the variety of different ships and different places, and have yet to take a cruise (including Carnival and NCL) that made us regret or reconsider anything.

 

Ironically, our least enjoyable experience was on Grand Princess, the same New Years '04-05 sailing with Spongerob. We enjoyed our fellow CC mates immensely, but found the ship subpar and the food & service the weakest of any cruise product we've seen. We've not sailed Princess since, and DW would take some convincing (i.e. a strong itinerary and a good value, with few/no other options) before returning to Princess. There were also a handful of passengers on that sailing who were quite challenging for crew and fellow pax. But that behaviour has been the exception to what we've seen in 11 cruises together (13 for me) over the years. The experience others have had may be different... YMMV.

[hubofhockey]

We did four 6-8 day Caribbean cruises on three lines in four years. We enjoyed all of the cruises. But, to be honest, all of the islands, despite their subtle differences, seemed the same and those vacations got a bit stale. If we were to go back to the Caribbean any time soon, it might have to be a totally different type of cruise and the Allure might do the trick.

 

But we did our first Med cruise last year. I thought it was a once in a lifetime thing. Thanks to many on the Med boards here and their great advice, we had a great time and are going back this summer and, unlike last time, we'll bring the kids. After that, we'd like to do a British Isles cruise. Everything so far, has been mass market lines. But I think a new experience on a smaller ship would be great. I saw that Azamara has a very unique itinerary with multiple overnights in Dublin and Rouen (closer to Paris than other cruise lines get) and I am tempted by nights in ports. I guess my point, and there is one somewhere, is that it's important to look for different types of cruises. Of course, land vacations are great too.

[jaxjaguar]

I haven't gone on a cruise yet, but have one booked for July of 2011. As I do research on all the extra charges, including most restaurants that serve a la carte vs buffet style, entrance to bars, shows, and your drinks including sodas, I find that the magic is gone before it even started. I have gone on many trips to the Mayan Riviera where the all-inclusive IS all-inclusive, everything from beer, wine, sodas, meals at EVERY SINGLE restaurant, is included. On top of that they charge you for tips, $12 per person per day automatically charged, wow. I think I'll change my trip and go elsewhere, no magic here.

[Toto2Kansas]

I haven't gone on a cruise yet, but have one booked for July of 2011. As I do research on all the extra charges, including most restaurants that serve a la carte vs buffet style, entrance to bars, shows, and your drinks including sodas, I find that the magic is gone before it even started. I have gone on many trips to the Mayan Riviera where the all-inclusive IS all-inclusive, everything from beer, wine, sodas, meals at EVERY SINGLE restaurant, is included. On top of that they charge you for tips, $12 per person per day automatically charged, wow. I think I'll change my trip and go elsewhere, no magic here.

I don't think you did your homework on what is included (and not included) in the cruise price. There is no way you can compare a cruise to a cheapo Mexican all-inclusive resort. Sorry!

[Sargent_Schultz]

Nothing worse in my book than sitting in a formal dining room with waiters in white jackets, the Captain in his dress whites and some slob shows up and sits at the next table in his casual slacks, t shirt and ball cap. Just really, really ruins the ambiance of the entire evening. Might as well gone to TGIF's, Appleby's, Olive Garden, etc. etc. Again, has nothing to do with money-it is all about DECORUM, practicing a little etiquette and having respect for your fellow passengers.

 

The hired help is wearing uniforms. They have no choice. If a few passengers want to pretend they are at Camelot or Fantasy Island or wherever, that is their problem, not mine.

 

Obviously, you feel no compunction about upsetting your fellow passengers with your CASUAL dress on formal nights.

 

You damn betcha! Especially the snobbish, judgmental, fashion police variety.

 

It is all about DECORUM and proper manners/etiquette. Damn, I am soooo glad we are doing fewer and fewer cruises.

 

I think some of us are, too, and decorum has nothing to do with it. :D

[Rick-cruiser]

....

[BruceMuzz]

Until around 1995, we played an interesting game on cruise ships.

Crew are generally not allowed to go into passenger areas unless they are on duty.

But every cruise, at least one or two crewmembers tried to get around the rules by dressing in "civilian clothes" and pretending that they were passengers.

 

But we almost always nabbed them. The crew rarely dressed as well as pax and really stood out when Security and Management were watching.

 

Today we play a different game.

We still have crew occasionally masquerading as pax.

But now we spot them because they usually dress far better than the passengers.

 

It's really amazing how things change in 15 years.

 

20 years ago on Royal Viking Cruise Line, the biggest complaint we received concerned the storage of the ladies' furs. We never had enough refrigerated lockers to properly store them.

The passengers complained endlessly that we didn't have the class and service to properly care for their belongings.

 

Today the Number #1 Complaint on most cruise ships is the price of a Coca Cola.

 

Even more amazing how things change in 20 years.

[momofmeg]

Wow, big assumptions. Maybe they saved for the cruise of a lifetime and chose to reuse, and recycle their clothing and pay for the trip in cash. If you want first class treatment then seek it out and pay for it or go with the flow.

 

I knew I would upset people with that post.

 

I don't think so, as the people I particularity had in mind (though yes, I have seen others and I do not know their story) ate dinner with us and bragged about all the cruises they had taken.

 

Now, our own personal experience coming from lower middle class,our very first cruise we did save for 2 years, it was our 15th anniversary gift to each other- the previous 2 years we gave no gifts to each other-our money was put in to our "trip savings fund". We also saved money for nice clothes to wear on that cruise.

 

Shortly after that, my husband got a better paying position and our yearly income went up $25,000. Also, with his new position, our health insurance covered much better, (a major expense for us with our daughter's health) and the insurance fees at his employment cost HALF what we had been previously paying-so all of the sudden we could afford to cruise and take other nice vacations. Our first trip to Europe was six months after he took this new position. Now we no longer buy clothing especially for cruises. We don't have to- We already have it, as we can now afford to budget for nicer clothing.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Things do change over 20 years. A number of upscale cruise lines went bankrupt or would have if not purchased by cruise lines with better business models.

 

If we go back farther in time, dinosaurs roamed the earth. Where are they today?

[cruzin w chris]

no you're wrong... Dh will be driving my benzo to the port garage wearing a white linen suit, supersize sun-glasses, and flip damn flops!!! Whahoooo!!!:d

don't like stretch limo's sorry. But i am wearing my flip-flops underneath my fabulous rachel roy dress for formal night!!!!

Look, i am not going to "knock" someone over their attire on a cruiseship. Its is not the q2. Its a ship carrying people from all over the world with different ses ( socio-economic status) who like you deserve the right to have fun!!! I don't intend to be offended by anyone who wears clothes that does not shout "bling-bling!! I am going to rent a cabana, have fabulous martini's, have breakfast on my balcony, go on excursions, gamble, dance, flirt with my dh, and have fun with my fellow "walmart" cruisers!!!!:d

 

lighten up...life its too short for dumb stuff.

cheers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hlitner]

Things do change over 20 years. A number of upscale cruise lines went bankrupt or would have if not purchased by cruise lines with better business models.

 

If we go back farther in time, dinosaurs roamed the earth. Where are they today?

 

Not sure if that is really true. If you look today you have Seabourn, Silverseas, Sea Dream, Crystal, Regent and a few others all in the Ultra-Luxury category. On these lines it is often difficult to even book a good cabin. For example, at one point Crystal was using a lottery to decide who got the best suites on their long world cruise since the demand exceeded supply and they did not want to choose between their best customers. Personally, we think the mass market lines offer a much better value but the luxury lines are sure there for those who don't mind spending the big bucks.

 

Hank