New ships...yuk!!

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='Host Andy']they have to redeploy their fleet MUCH better than they are doing for 2005, so that there can be something for everyone.[/QUOTE]
Who says that Celebrity must have something for everyone?

It's unfortunate that they may no longer have something for you - but they can't have something for everyone. Presumably the someones who are getting the something that is no longer for you are more important to Celebrity than you are.

[quote name='canderson']Best I can tell, there won't be any more long (10 nights or more) Caribbean cruises from [b][size=3]X[/size][/b] next winter[/QUOTE]
This I find very interesting, because HAL are really emphasizing their longer Caribbean itineraries of late!

(Incidentally, they will also have no year-round Caribbean presence in 2006. And they have [i]plenty[/i] of ships; by 2006 they'll have 13 to Celebrity's 8.)

[AFT_LOVER]

and applaud "X" for doing so. We do not want to cruise the same ports over 7 over. We may repeat a cruise, such as Alaska, every 10 years.

I know neighbors that do Carib cruises in the winter. See the same ports over & over, how boring!

I want "X" to visit new places so we can grow with our "Round the world" experience.

[BambiRumsey]

Oh. My. God.

X is by far my favorite cruising experience but after reading this thread and some of the others floating over here I am just saying to myself "What a bunch of snots" and wondering if I really want to cruise with people like this and THANKFUL I have not run into any of you on my previous cruises.

Some of you make it sound like you have great disdain for those of us who are unable or unwilling to visit European ports during the summer months. Yes, we have been to the Carribean a number of times but that gives us the opportunity to try new things when we are in port. You are only there for so long and can usually only squeeze in one excursion per visit. I understand the need and desire on X's part to expand to new areas and to reach a larger market but to ignore an existing market and customer base I think is shameful.

Maybe I am not truly an X customer then or someone they want to target? Why is my money less green than any of yours? We can afford to cruise 2-3 times a year, schedule permitting. My first choice is X but unfortunately their schedule of late has not fit in well with our availability or desires so we are experiementing with other lines. So far with not much happiness because they have not measured up to what we have come to expect from X. Why ignore an already hot market? Why not build larger ships that may have even better children's facilities to get even more people on board? Why sail with only double occupancy cabins when you can have my family of 3 in at least one?

Just to clarify:

I am 30 something, he is 40 something, DD is 5. We are some of those wretched people who actually bring our 5 year old on one cruise a year as our family vacation. We are now slaves to the school calendar so our family vacation must coincide with that. He wears a tux on formal night, she and I wear gowns. We know which fork to use, what wine to order, we tip very well and we are pretty decent dancers IMHO. We do not hog deck chairs. My daughter when not involved in organized activites does not run screaming down halls and is generally well behaved.

I am just amazed and disgusted I guess. I realize change is difficult for many people but it really is not all bad. Look at how many people LOVE the M class ships now. Were they received with open arms in the beginning? Would it really break the bank to leave ONE ship in Florida for the year? And maybe one in San Diego? I mean it sounds like all the snots will be in the Med so you all won't have to worry about fraternizing with us riff-raff...... Maybe if you guys are lucky the bigger ships are to accomodate the "less-thans" among us and all the existing ships you love will cater to those of you who are obviously a much higher class.

[jsea]

[quote name='BambiRumsey']I understand the need and desire on X's part to expand to new areas and to reach a larger market but to ignore an existing market and customer base I think is shameful[/QUOTE]Shameful? So if the grocery store in my neighborhood stops carrying the coffee I like, merely because they no longer cater to my needs is that shameful? I think it's just business.


[QUOTE]Why ignore an already hot market? Why not build larger ships that may have even better children's facilities to get even more people on board? Why sail with only double occupancy cabins when you can have my family of 3 in at least one?[/QUOTE]How are you defining a 'hot' market? Just because we might have a personal preference for a certain market doesn't make it hot, and just because ships are sailing full in these markets does not necessarily mean that Celebrity is making as much profit as they would like (if any at all), especially when they can redeploy their vessels and garner even higher per diems elsewhere. If you want better children's facilities and more people onboard, respectfully, you'd probably be better off exploring Princess or RCI. I sincerely do not mean that to come off as rude, as I understand that you like the Celebrity product. Unfortunately it does not seem that Celebrity is geared or known for being a great line for kids. But I still think that there's plenty for a child to do on a Celebrity cruise even without the largest and most-advanced children's facilities.


[QUOTE]We are some of those wretched people who actually bring our 5 year old on one cruise a year as our family vacation. We are now slaves to the school calendar so our family vacation must coincide with that. He wears a tux on formal night, she and I wear gowns. We know which fork to use, what wine to order, we tip very well and we are pretty decent dancers IMHO. We do not hog deck chairs. My daughter when not involved in organized activites does not run screaming down halls and is generally well behaved.[/QUOTE]I applaud that. It sounds like you are letting your daughter have a lot of great experiences and I think taking children on cruises is a great idea.


[QUOTE]Would it really break the bank to leave ONE ship in Florida for the year? And maybe one in San Diego? I mean it sounds like all the snots will be in the Med so you all won't have to worry about fraternizing with us riff-raff...... Maybe if you guys are lucky the bigger ships are to accomodate the "less-thans" among us and all the existing ships you love will cater to those of you who are obviously a much higher class.[/QUOTE]I think that's a bit harsh. No one was equating destinations with 'class'. People are just trying to emphasize that Celebrity is in this for the money, not to please every past customer and keep them sailing with the line. If Celebrity can make more profit by deploying its vessels elsewhere, it will do it, even if it means alienating loyal, previous cruisers. Princess did just that with their transformation to a big ship, mass market line. I was one of the 'forgotten' :D. But Princess is obviously happy with the results and lucky for me I discovered Celebrity because of it.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't voice their opinions. They should. But they should do so with the knowledge that they don't necessarily represent the majority (that is, the majority which Celebrity is seeking).

[canderson]

[quote name='jsea']Princess did just that with their transformation to a big ship, mass market line. I was one of the 'forgotten' :D. But Princess is obviously happy with the results and lucky for me I discovered Celebrity because of it.

[/QUOTE]I think your experience is instructive. I believe a number of people here are wondering which lines both you and they will have to 'discover' [u]next[/u] if Celebrity bows to the same kinds of pressures. Unless a new player emerges from the wings, the next step up may include a substantial difference in cost.

[BambiRumsey]

jsea:

I appreciate your comments and mostly I appreciate not being "flamed"!

I did not mean to say that I disliked X's children's program - in fact the program on Galaxy 9/03 was far FAR superior to that of Disney 9/04. To add to my dislike of the Disney experience was not only the children's program she hated but also the fact that I felt like I was on an Outback Steakhouse cruise and not a Ruth's Chris cruise I have come to expect from X. You can certainly get a good steak both places but it's just not the same...

[eroller]

[quote name='canderson']I think your experience is instructive. I believe a number of people here are wondering which lines both you and they will have to 'discover' [u]next[/u] if Celebrity bows to the same kinds of pressures. Unless a new player emerges from the wings, the next step up may include a substantial difference in cost.[/QUOTE]


MSC Cruises! Watch them closely. I had a fantastic experience aboard one of their new, medium sized vessels in January. It was very reminiscent of the way cruising used to be .... a civilized experience without being nickel and dimed 24/7 and listening to revenue producing announcements 5 times a day. No announcements, no bargain basement gift shop tables in the lobby, no art auctions, few if any lines, midnight buffets every night, real Italian Officers and dining room staff, and an International flair that is hard to describe. All this at prices lower than Celebrity. My only concern is that MSC is growing so fast that they will "sell-out" and become too Americanized and start the nickle and diming.

Ernie

ps - MSC's new ships are absolutely stunning.

[chessbriar]

So many people complained about Celebrity forsaking the Caribbean in the summer months. With ships too big for the Panama Canal, hopefully this means they will have 1 or 2 ships in the Caribbean all the time.

My biggest gripe is the ships are getting away from the classic cruising Celebrity offers. I hate Freestyle dining, do not want it. That could keep me from sailing these ships ever.

[eroller]

[quote name='chessbriar']

My biggest gripe is the ships are getting away from the classic cruising Celebrity offers. I hate Freestyle dining, do not want it. That could keep me from sailing these ships ever.[/QUOTE]


Me too. I've tried Freestyle on NCL and hated it and also Personal Choice on Princess which was somewhat better. On both cruise lines I found myself wanting to eat dinner around 8pm each night, which of course is the same on ships that have late sitting. Instead of having my nice reserved table, on NCL I had to wait in line for 5-10 minutes to even see the person taking table requests, then wait another 30-45 minutes once I got my name on the list until a table was ready. This is relaxing?

Princess was much better organized but I still prefer a reserved table with the same waiters. On Princess, the dining experience could be described as "dull". The waiters were just going through the motions knowing they would probably never see you again, and the dining rooms themselves were dull. Gone was the feeling that dinner was an "event" like you have on ships with assigned seating and everyone shows up a once.

Ernie

[venicecruiser]

For a long time I was a devoted fan of fixed-seating dining. On larger ships I still think its the system that works best. After sailing Radisson and Seabourn, I now LOVE open-seating dining. Bear in mind, however, Radisson Navigator holds around 400 passengers, and Seabourn ships have a max of 208 passengers....

IMO mass-market cruiselines have ships that just hold too many pax to be successful with open-seating.

Goes without saying that Crystal-considered by some to be a luxury line-also has fixed-seating dining. Crystal ships carry 900+ passengers and I suspect thats why they haven't gone to open-seating.

Celebrity can certainly try open-seating, but I think its a mistake based on the passenger loads their ships can handle..............

[Andy]

[quote name='chessbriar']So many people complained about Celebrity forsaking the Caribbean in the summer months. With ships too big for the Panama Canal, hopefully this means they will have 1 or 2 ships in the Caribbean all the time.

My biggest gripe is the ships are getting away from the classic cruising Celebrity offers. I hate Freestyle dining, do not want it. That could keep me from sailing these ships ever.[/QUOTE]

Hi Rick !

I agree with both points. I dont want freestyle dining. While it probably would not keep me off the ship, I definately would not be happy with that decision.

[Andy]

[quote name='canderson']I think your experience is instructive. I believe a number of people here are wondering which lines both you and they will have to 'discover' [u]next[/u] if Celebrity bows to the same kinds of pressures. Unless a new player emerges from the wings, the next step up may include a substantial difference in cost.[/QUOTE]

Hi Canderson !

I agree with Ernie. I think that if Celebrity goes in a direction we just cant live with.... then MSC might just be the line that we can move over to. I really cant say firsthand, as I have not been on their ships......... yet.

But... being that Celebrity has little to offer us later this year, I am strongly considering giving MSC a try. Their reviews seem to be very good of late, and I have a feeling they will be another option for us to try.

[eroller]

[quote name='venicecruiser']For a long time I was a devoted fan of fixed-seating dining. On larger ships I still think its the system that works best. After sailing Radisson and Seabourn, I now LOVE open-seating dining. Bear in mind, however, Radisson Navigator holds around 400 passengers, and Seabourn ships have a max of 208 passengers....

[/QUOTE]



Very good point! I had absolutely no problem with open seating when I sailed on Silversea. Of course it was not a mass-market experience and there were only 275 passengers onboard. There was no such thing as waiting in line for anything.

Unfortunately when you add 2000+ passengers into the equation then the circumstances become somewhat different. On the mega-ships I'll stick with traditional assigned seating.

Ernie

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='chessbriar']So many people complained about Celebrity forsaking the Caribbean in the summer months. With ships too big for the Panama Canal, hopefully this means they will have 1 or 2 ships in the Caribbean all the time.[/QUOTE]
Well, the year-round Caribbean ship, CENTURY, was moved to Europe, which does not involve a transit of the Panama Canal ;) .

Post-Panamax ships do not necessarily stay in the Caribbean all year round... Princess have been using theirs in Europe since Day One (heck, they're almost all [i]built[/i] in Europe!) and VOYAGER OF THE SEAS now goes to Canada/New England and Bermuda in the summer.