b2b2b Jones Act help please

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Maybe your wrong. You find me one post on these boards that anyone has done this itinerary without a fine...give me one. :eek:

 

how about posting one post of somebody who was denied this cruise itinerary because of the PSVA

 

Bill

[vols_159]

Is it just me or does it seem odd that there would be a law that wouldnt allow the OP to take a vacation they wanna take.. I just dont understand it.. If they have the funds and the time to take this great b2b2b cruise why the heck would the goverement tell them they couldnt? A outdated law? come on now that doesnt make alot of sense.. They will pay there taxes the goverment will make there money off them why shouldnt they be allowed to take any vacation they wanna take?? Whats the difference in the OP and NCL employees? I guess you can call me crazy but I dont understand why this cruise would be illegal.. and whats the fine if they do issue the fine?

 

OP take this cruise and have a great sailing!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Is it just me or does it seem odd that there would be a law that wouldnt allow the OP to take a vacation they wanna take.. I just dont understand it.. If they have the funds and the time to take this great b2b2b cruise why the heck would the goverement tell them they couldnt? A outdated law? come on now that doesnt make alot of sense.. They will pay there taxes the goverment will make there money off them why shouldnt they be allowed to take any vacation they wanna take?? Whats the difference in the OP and NCL employees? I guess you can call me crazy but I dont understand why this cruise would be illegal.. and whats the fine if they do issue the fine?

 

OP take this cruise and have a great sailing!

 

If this cruise was illegal you can't just book it because you have the money.

 

The cruise lines will not knowingly book you on a cruise where it violates the PSVA. The fine is $300pp

 

Bill

[nathand95]

I hope I'm not being ignorant in saying this, but why in the heck do they even have this stupid act???? It makes everything complicated and ruins anticipated vacations. Forgive me if it's ignorant to say, but that's my take.

[Davechipp74]

i voilated the jones act once in 1999, after i finshed laughing it was only a $200 fine(witch i only got for laughing soo hard at the guy) however they may not let you board anther cruise in the first place because of it.for one reason or anther they take it kinda seriously even though it was created in like 1900 for a whole other reason :rolleyes:

__________________i got the fine the next time i went through customs,witch was over a year later at seatac airport on an unrelated travel matter.i was told that my name was flagged for a jones act violation,and they dont chase you down or anything like that, they will wait for you to come to them :o. you can do a google search and find out all about the jones act,and how it applies to youre case ;)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

i voilated the jones act once in 1999, after i finshed laughing it was only a $200 fine(witch i only got for laughing soo hard at the guy) however they may not let you board anther cruise in the first place because of it.for one reason or anther they take it kinda seriously even though it was created in like 1900 for a whole other reason :rolleyes:

__________________i got the fine the next time i went through customs,witch was over a year later at seatac airport on an unrelated travel matter.i was told that my name was flagged for a jones act violation,and they dont chase you down or anything like that, they will wait for you to come to them :o. you can do a google search and find out all about the jones act,and how it applies to youre case ;)

 

what kind of cargo were you transporting?

 

Bill

[numberguy]

Oh my goodness. Popcorn anyone?

 

--Michael

[Davechipp74]

all i had was my luggage from japan

when i handed over my passport,after it was scaned,they told me my name was flagged from a "incident" almost 1 year earler.

i had got on a cruise ship in n.y. and then got off in fla. then stayed in fla.:eek: after a real hard laugh and all was said and done it was a $200 fine

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Oh my goodness. Popcorn anyone?

 

--Michael

 

there is no need for popcorn

 

Bill

[luv4cruisin]

Thank you for all the input! I'm slightly reassured, because the three legs SHOULD be considered one cruise, and we do satisfy the the foreign port. Sorry about the wrong terminology (jones act). I'm still afraid to book it and then be kicked off the ship. :confused: If NCL is reading, I would love a clear answer please!!

[LadyShiva]

If the OP can afford the 3 cruise fares per person, they can afford the $300 per person fine (if it is applicable). :p

 

The "Jones Act" gets its colloquial name from the Senator that proposed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920

 

The "Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886" is good reading, too. NCL is directly mentioned in that entry.

[electricron]

I hope I'm not being ignorant in saying this, but why in the heck do they even have this stupid act???? It makes everything complicated and ruins anticipated vacations. Forgive me if it's ignorant to say, but that's my take.

 

As for the government dictating which cruise you can take or not, many nations do so. How would you like a cheaply ran, foreign staff, non safe ferry running between Los Angeles and Santa Catalina Island? That's what could happen if the PVSA law was struck down. It's a good law. It's not the law's fault that all the cruise lines use foreign built and manned cruise ships. The only American flag cruise ship presently operating is NCLA's Pride of America, and it has restrictions placed upon it because it wasn't entirely built in America.

 

Additionally, the PVSA law applies to aircraft as well. Next time you wish to fly between L.A. and New York, without this law you could fly on a discount airliner based in Haiti. Dang could, you would be as they would run everyone else out of business with super cheap fares. If you wanted a drink with your peanuts, learn to speak French. And who's going to notice a few more planes falling out of the sky because they don't used qualified technicians to maintain their planes?

 

The PVSA regulates only domestic land, sea, and air travel. Even so, exceptions are made to accommodate foreign trucks, ships, and planes depending upon their itineraries.

[angelsonefive]

how about posting one post of somebody who was denied this cruise itinerary because of the PSVA

 

Bill

I believe someone on this post already did. I have written the CBP for some clarification on this subject (MIA to SEA), being they are the ones to enforce the PVSA. If NCL had an intinerary that did MIA to SEA the OP's plan might fly, but it doesn't and that is where the PVSA comes into play. It will be interesting to see what the CBP has to say. This link might help it's a PDF from the CBP about the PVSA. http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

OP these boards can be a wealth of information and misinformation, just because someone has thousands of posts or only one doesn't make them right. I will post the CBP's response if and when I get it (it's the government remember?!? :eek:). Your still well over a year out, you have time my friend. Good luck and happy sailing.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I believe someone on this post already did. I have written the CBP for some clarification on this subject (MIA to SEA), being they are the ones to enforce the PVSA. If NCL had an intinerary that did MIA to SEA the OP's plan might fly, but it doesn't and that is where the PVSA comes into play. It will be interesting to see what the CBP has to say. This link might help it's a PDF from the CBP about the PVSA. http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

OP these boards can be a wealth of information and misinformation, just because someone has thousands of posts or only one doesn't make them right. I will post the CBP's response if and when I get it (it's the government remember?!? :eek:). Your still well over a year out, you have time my friend. Good luck and happy sailing.

 

I've seen a couple post with the first 2 legs of this persons cruise listed but not one with all 3 legs

 

Bill

[angelsonefive]

As for the government dictating which cruise you can take or not, many nations do so. How would you like a cheaply ran, foreign staff, non safe ferry running between Los Angeles and Santa Catalina Island? That's what could happen if the PVSA law was struck down. It's a good law. It's not the law's fault that all the cruise lines use foreign built and manned cruise ships. The only American flag cruise ship presently operating is NCLA's Pride of America, and it has restrictions placed upon it because it wasn't entirely built in America.

 

Additionally, the PVSA law applies to aircraft as well. Next time you wish to fly between L.A. and New York, without this law you could fly on a discount airliner based in Haiti. Dang could, you would be as they would run everyone else out of business with super cheap fares. If you wanted a drink with your peanuts, learn to speak French. And who's going to notice a few more planes falling out of the sky because they don't used qualified technicians to maintain their planes?

 

The PVSA regulates only domestic land, sea, and air travel. Even so, exceptions are made to accommodate foreign trucks, ships, and planes depending upon their itineraries.

Ron, you are so right !!! There are those (more then you think) that would give up everything (their freedom or the freedom of others or jobs) if it ment there vacation wasn't 'spoiled' jeeeezzz..........;)

[angelsonefive]

I've seen a couple post with the first 2 legs of this persons cruise listed but not one with all 3 legs

 

Bill

Miss read #5 post :eek::D . I know the two legs mentioned doesn't work. On our cruise (LA to YVR) there were those that wanted to do YVR SEA as well. Some were booked and told later they couldn't do it and some must have fallen between the cracks, because in the dailies they posted if you were booked for both go to the front desk "you couldn't do it--violation of the 'Jones Act" (I know...I don't even want to go there). Talk about getting screwed over !!! Getting dumped off in YVR half way thru a trip?? :eek: Never heard of it here on the boards, but CC'ers only account for maybe 1 or 2% on any given cruise...probably less.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Miss read #5 post :eek::D . I know the two legs mentioned doesn't work. On our cruise (LA to YVR) there were those that wanted to do YVR SEA as well. Some were booked and told later they couldn't do it and some must have fallen between the cracks, because in the dailies they posted if you were booked for both go to the front desk "you couldn't do it--violation of the 'Jones Act" (I know...I don't even want to go there). Talk about getting screwed over !!! Getting dumped off in YVR half way thru a trip?? :eek: Never heard of it here on the boards, but CC'ers only account for maybe 1 or 2% on any given cruise...probably less.

 

what you posted is very true but with the 3rd leg added on it is a legal cruise.:)

 

Bill

[luv4cruisin]

update-

 

I called in to book the cruise direct with NCL, and the agent said the computer wouldn't let him book it. I then called an agency, and they said they can book it no problem. I am officially at a loss :(

[S.S.Oceanlover]

update-

 

I called in to book the cruise direct with NCL, and the agent said the computer wouldn't let him book it. I then called an agency, and they said they can book it no problem. I am officially at a loss :(

 

you should have got a supervisor when you called NCL.

 

Did they say why you couldn't book it?

 

Bill

[Seamo]

I believe someone on this post already did. I have written the CBP for some clarification on this subject (MIA to SEA), being they are the ones to enforce the PVSA. If NCL had an intinerary that did MIA to SEA the OP's plan might fly, but it doesn't and that is where the PVSA comes into play. It will be interesting to see what the CBP has to say. This link might help it's a PDF from the CBP about the PVSA. http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

OP these boards can be a wealth of information and misinformation, just because someone has thousands of posts or only one doesn't make them right. I will post the CBP's response if and when I get it (it's the government remember?!? :eek:). Your still well over a year out, you have time my friend. Good luck and happy sailing.

__________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________

 

We "think" Seattle/Vancouver/LA/Mia (via Gart., Colom.) is legal.

Might not be able to leave the ship in L.A. because of VanC to L.A. is the baddie , in this triple. (Canada is not a 'distant foreign port).

 

All said would LOVE to see REAL experience conformation or something from the 'official sources'.

 

Keep the answers coming.

wanting ....:)Seamo:)

[NMLady]

why wouldnt you be able to do it?? you have pay for the 3 cruises why not?

 

Because the Jones act says you can't cruise from one US city to another US City without stopping at a NON-North America port without a fine being paid.

So the first two cruises mentioned could not be done as a b2b since it starts in one US city, finishes in another, and did not stop at a non-NA port.

[NMLady]

You have to look at all three segments, not just the first two. The total itinerary of Seattle to Miami, making a stop at Cartagena, makes it legal.

 

However, the cruise line doesn't look at all 3 segments, but at each segment, since the cruise isn't offered as a single cruise.

[njhorseman]

Because the Jones act says you can't cruise from one US city to another US City without stopping at a NON-North America port without a fine being paid.

So the first two cruises mentioned could not be done as a b2b since it starts in one US city, finishes in another, and did not stop at a non-NA port.

 

It's not the Jones Act, it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act, as was explained back when this was an active thread.

 

The precise requirement is for the ship to make a call at what is called a distant foreign port.

[njhorseman]

However, the cruise line doesn't look at all 3 segments, but at each segment, since the cruise isn't offered as a single cruise.

 

I honestly have no idea of what you're trying to say. This was all discussed and properly explained months ago when this was an active thread.

 

I have no intention of explaining everything again just because someone decided today to reopen an thread that's been inactive for four months.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

However, the cruise line doesn't look at all 3 segments, but at each segment, since the cruise isn't offered as a single cruise.

 

You are incorrect. If there are no days in between any of the cruises the only thing that is looked at is where the cruise starts and where the cruise ends even if it isn't sold as one cruise.

 

As NJhorseman said it is legit.

 

Bill