Trying to decide on DSLR

[bayoubelle]

Hi. I hope you can help me. I am shopping for a DSLR. Currently I have a Canon Powershot S3is that I love but I want to upgrade to a DSLR. I am looking at the Canon EOS Rebel T3i. I like that it has the vari-angle LCD which seems to be just like the one on my Powershot, only a 3". The older I get the harder it is to see the small LCD on my Powershot and since I am short I love how you can hold the camera up over your head and angle the LCD down to see what you a shooting.

 

Right now, I can get a bundle that consists of the T3i with 18-55mm lens, a camera bag, an 8gb memory card and a 55-250mm zoom lens. According to the web site, I can save $234 if I buy the package, but I am trying to decide if the package is right for me. I want a zoom lens that will let me take pictures at concerts in low light. I'm afraid I don't know if this zoom lens would be the best for me. Plus I want to take pictures of the grandchildren at their ball games, etc.

 

Does this bundle sound like a good deal? Or should I buy the camera and everything else separately to get exactly what I want? The problem is, I don't know exactly what I want yet!

 

Thanks for any help you can give me. I have so enjoyed looking at all the photos on here. Maybe one day I can upload one of my own for you to see!

 

Vicki

[TheOldBear]

At f4.0 max aperture, this is a relatively slow 'kit' lens - a fast lens would be one of the big white L series monsters [expensive]

 

What you can do is crank up the sensitivity [the 'iso'] the camera is shooting at [manual select or a night shot mode]. The sensitivity boost will result in a noisier, grainy picture - but less noisy or grainy than a small sensor compact camera.

 

Also, adopting some traditional shooting techniques instead of attempting to use the 'live view' will likely yield much better low light results.

[zackiedawg]

I am looking at the Canon EOS Rebel T3i. I like that it has the vari-angle LCD which seems to be just like the one on my Powershot, only a 3". The older I get the harder it is to see the small LCD on my Powershot and since I am short I love how you can hold the camera up over your head and angle the LCD down to see what you a shooting.

 

One thing you may want to consider, that you may not know: if you want to shoot with your camera using the LCD screen, on a P&S camera that's how they all work, but with DSLRs, they have to use a mode called 'live view'...and right away you'll find the camera does not function the same as a P&S camera in this mode. DSLRs have a mirror inside which bounces the view through the lens up to an optical viewfinder...so the sensor which actually captures the image is blocked by this mirror. With a P&S camera, there is no mirror - you are seeing an electronic view fed from the sensor itself. The problem is, DSLRs in order to use 'live view' mode have to lift this mirror to expose the sensor, then must either lower the mirror again to focus, raise it again to restore your view, then lower and cycle it again when taking the shot...or they try to use a very slow contrast-detection based focus mode with a lens not designed for it - the end result is that DSLRs in 'live view' mode are extremely slow to focus and have a delay of up to several seconds before they'll take the shot.

 

The good news is that not all DSLRs are like this - and you have a second class of camera worth considering which also doesn't suffer this issue. The first option is to go with a Sony DSLR, or SLT. All current Sony DSLRs have a unique 'quick' live view mode, which can achieve normal, DSLR-speed, phase-detect autofocus without having to lift the mirror...and which have no delay at all when shooting. Sony's DSLRs do this by employing a second sensor just to deliver the live view, so the camera can function exactly the same as it would if you were using the viewfinder. Sony also has the SLT class of cameras, which are just like DSLRs, except the mirror is fixed in place and partially transparent, allowing it to deliver a live view by exposing the sensor and expose the autofocus system all at once. Either version works similarly, in that there is absolutely no slow down in autofocus speed or effectiveness, or in shooting speed/shutter delay, whether you are using the viewfinder or the live view. Also note: all the Sony DSLRs and SLTs have a tilting and/or swivelling screen too.

 

The second option is to consider one of the mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. These have no mirror at all, and expose the sensor directly, deliver an electronic view on an LCD screen, and basically function and behave just like a P&S camera, except that they have the much larger sensors, much better low light behavior, and interchangeable lenses, like DSLRs. There are at least 4 manufacturers currently making a mirrorless model, and these might well be worth a look for you - Olympus has their Pen models, Panasonic has their G/GH/GF series, Sony has their NEX series, and Samsung has their NX series. All of these would hold a definite advantage over a DSLR when shooting using the LCD panel. Several models also offer tilting LCD screens too, and very high resolution ones at that...and some also offer electronic viewfinders if you choose to use them. The Olympus and Panasonic models use the micro4:3 sensor, which is many times larger than any P&S camera, and has performance in low light and across the board that can match or come close to DSLR performance. Samsung uses an APS-C sensor (same as DSLRs) and performs similarly to the micro4:3 cameras. Sony also uses an APS-C sensor, and will match a DSLR including low light. There are fewer lens options for some of these, but you don't sound like you need any more than 1, maybe 2, lenses to suit your needs.

 

You can still go with Canon, Nikon, or Pentax DSLRs - they're all quite fine machines, and all DSLRs are a near-match for overall quality no matter tha brand. But just be aware that these DSLRs are truly meant to be used with the optical viewfinders, and their live view/LCD capabilities are severely limited, slow, and really not meant for regular, daily shooting needs. You may in fact find out that the larger, brighter optical finders on DSLRs work better for you than the tiny little finders on P&S models, and won't even need the live view - so certainly go test them out and handle them for yourself. But if you really do think you'll be using the LCD more to frame and take your shots, you honestly would be much better off with either the Sony DSLR/SLT systems, or one of the mirrorless class of camera.

 

I want a zoom lens that will let me take pictures at concerts in low light. I'm afraid I don't know if this zoom lens would be the best for me. Plus I want to take pictures of the grandchildren at their ball games, etc.

 

Few zoom lenses are going to be great for low light situations, but DSLR sensors can perform much better at high ISO levels and make up for slower lenses. For a true 'low light' zoom lens, you'd have to be looking at zooms with F2.8 apertures...they are very large, very heavy, and very expensive. You'll likely be fine for most casual, consumer level shooting in low light or sports conditions with a basic travel zoom or kit zoom, so I wouldn't worry too much about this yet. Try the cheap zoom you get with a kit, or pick up a cheap one with whatever brand you settle on, and see how it does - if it's insufficient, then look at upgrading to a faster, heavier, nicer lens down the road.

[bayoubelle]

Thanks for the answers to my questions. As you can see, I know very little about DSLR's. It looks like I will have to learn to use the viewfinder as opposed to the LCD screen. But that's OK. I am so excited to learn to use a DSLR! I will check out some other brands just to be sure I get the one that is right for me.

 

I want to get a camera that will last and one that I will not "outgrow" too soon. Hopefully I will be able to take a course to learn how to use it. I can't wait!

 

Thanks again!

 

Vicki

[TheOldBear]

I would suggest visiting the forums over at http://www.dpreview.com - they have some good beginner's resources as well.

 

I strongly suggest trying out the camera [and making the purchase] at a local camera store - if you have a real camera store and not just a 'big box' retailer in your area. You will want to evaluate how the camera fits your hands and eyes - it's difficult to do this online.

 

As far as using the viewfinder - that is the entire point of a SLR camera.

 

Using the viewfinder enables the camera's fast accurate 'phase detect' autofocus, rather than live view's slower focus mode. It also lets you do fine aiming and control with your head rather than your hands.

[zackiedawg]

OldBear's correct, and good idea on going to dpreview and such sites...however, just to note the one little asterisk with DSLR live view:

 

Using the viewfinder enables the camera's fast accurate 'phase detect' autofocus, rather than live view's slower focus mode*.

 

* Except Sony DSLRs, which can use phase detect autofocus at all times, including live view, and do not have any lag, speed, or performance degredation in live view mode compared with using the viewfinder. They can even shoot up to 7 frames-per-second in live view with tracking phase-detect autofocus. Sony's DSLRs are completely unique in this regard.

[awboater]

If you are going to be taking cruise photos in the Caribbean, you'll appreciate the optical viewfinder. In the bright Caribbean sun, electronic viewfinders can become washed out to the point that you cannot see what you are photographing.

 

You are going to have a tough time with concerts with the lenses you are looking at. The Canon 55-250 is a variable aperture; while it starts out at f/4 at the wide-angle end, at the telephoto end (which you may be likely using in concerts) is at f/5.6, which is even worse. I'd regard the 55-200 as primarily a "daylight" lens. It will do fine out in the sunlight, but not so much in inside concert conditions.

 

While you can boost the ISO, doing so begins to introduce noise, and know that not all camera's are equal here. Some cameras do very well at high ISO settings; some not so well. So the low light capability might affect the model and even brand of DSLR that will be the best one for you. Here is where a good camera shop with knowledgeable people will come in handy - so I second that recommendation.

 

Low-light concert photography is one of those areas that could be classified as fringe - and different DSLRs will have different capabilities.

 

Here is a link that is for a photographer that shoots concert photography. There might be some tips in there for you; but I can tell you he is going to recommend one of the 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses. The least expensive lens of this type that will provide acceptable photos is probably the Sigma 70-200; which is at $950.

 

http://froknowsphoto.com/

 

You have to sign up for his newsletter - (which you can always cancel at a later time if you wish) - and he will send you a free guide to low-light photography; with emphasis on concert photography.

 

If you don't want to spend that kind of money on a lens, I would suggest possibly spending it in the body to get the best low-light capable DSLR you can for your budget.

 

Another option is to buy Adobe Photoshop Lightroom. It normally sells for around $300, but you can find it for half-that from time-to-time. V3.0 of Lightroom has an outstanding noise-reduction feature, and I used it extensively in low-light hockey games before I went out and bought a 80-200mm f/2.8 zoom.

 

While post-processing gives you an avenue into further reducing low-light noise, it might be something beyond what you want to get into.

[TheOldBear]

OldBear's correct, and good idea on going to dpreview and such sites...however, just to note the one little asterisk with DSLR live view:

 

 

 

* Except Sony DSLRs, which can use phase detect autofocus at all times, including live view, and do not have any lag, speed, or performance degredation in live view mode compared with using the viewfinder. They can even shoot up to 7 frames-per-second in live view with tracking phase-detect autofocus. Sony's DSLRs are completely unique in this regard.

 

Gee - sounds like my EOS/RT and my old Pellex ;) [i've accumulated stuff over the years]

[bayoubelle]

Thanks for all the info! I think I may look into the Sony. It sounds like it may be just what I'm looking for. There is a camera store here in town. I looked at the big box store and all the cameras were locked down so you couldn't tell how they would feel in your hand. I will try to go to the camera store and see if I can compare different models without having to wrestle with the cord that was holding them down at the other store. I really appreciate all the help.

 

Vicki

[dileep]

If you decide to consider a P&S with an adjustable LCD viewfinder, look at the Panasonic Lumix FZ100. It has a 24X zoom.

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072108panasonicdmcfz100.asp#images

[awboater]

So that you don't limit yourself to too few choices, keep an open mind when you go into a camera store.

 

Unless you are dead set against an optical viewfinder, you may not find the best camera for you.

 

While we can offer opinions, we cannot truly know what you need as there are so many variables.

 

Know too that buying a DSLR is buying into a system; which includes lenses, external flashes, and other items - but mostly lenses.

 

Most people that spend the money on a DSLR do buy a few lenses, and actually the lenses will end up costing more than the camera, and usually outlast the camera. The camera will be obsolete in 2~4 years, but the lenses you might have for 10 years or more.

 

So your purchase decisions should be based on a 5 or 10 year plan. Do you want to buy a few extra lenses; perhaps save money in a lens kitty and buy one lens a year? Do you want to buy a lens now that might not be quite as capable and trade up later? Perhaps you might want to rent a lens for those cruises so that you don't have to spend the money and purchase it.

 

All of these decisions means you should try and determine what lenses you need, and then which ones are priced right for you, and their availability - both now and in the future after you have saved enough money to purchase that lens you always wanted.

 

One thing is for sure, and I think every experienced photographer here will agree - as a novice DSLR owner, what you perceive your needs are now will be different than what your actual needs will be over the next couple of years.

 

So my opinion is to choose the lenses you want to grow into now, then that may dictate the camera you will want to buy. Or if you are set on a camera now, make sure the offerings for the lenses you want are there.

 

Most people feel the need for a "normal" lens; which these days can be about anything - but regard it as the lens you will use 75% of the time. It might be either a prime (non-zoom lens) such as a 35mm or 50mm lens, or a zoom in the 18-50mm range.

 

The second lens most folks buy is a telephoto lens; usually in the 50-200mm to 70-300mm range, or some similar combination.

 

And thirdly, many opt for a super-wide angle lens; with an APS camera (which most DSLRs are), it would be something like a 10-20mm lens.

 

In these three areas, there are a lot of offerings from a lot of manufacturers - both same brand and 3rd party lenses. Some are well made, some not so well made.

 

What this means is you might want to do some research on your purchase. While you could just go out and buy the first camera that meets your fancy, and it might well work OK, it might not have been the best camera for you.

 

There is a lot of choice right now - perhaps too much choice - but the more research you put into it, the happier you will likely be in the long run.

 

While you did indicate some of your needs, focus on those rather than focusing on brand or a feature such as a flip-screen. There are more important things to determine the best camera than those.

 

But if a feature such as a flip-screen are paramount, perhaps a high-end Point & Shoot or a MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera) might be a better choice than a DSLR. Some of those even offer APS sized sensors (but some are also 4/3rds, which some argue is inferior).

 

There are two main purposes to go to a DSLR - one is overall better photography with larger sensors, and the other is entry into the domain of multiple lenses.

 

As you have indicated a need for low-light photography, this is one area where certain cameras will be clearly better than others. While all DSLRs will outperform compact cameras in this regard, some DSLRs will outperform other DSLRs.

 

And here is the sad news... due to the still-rapidly improving technology, in two or three years, a less expensive camera will come to market that will outperform any of the cameras you are looking at today (which is why I stress lenses so much - as they won't become obsolete as quick as the cameras will).

 

But at the end of the day, its not so much the equipment you have, but what you do with that equipment that is important. Across the internet, there are several websites where professional photographers have purposely purchased entry-level DSLRs as a demonstration project and use those to demonstrate this precept. If they can take good photos with that equipment, so can you.

[zackiedawg]

Gee - sounds like my EOS/RT and my old Pellex ;) [i've accumulated stuff over the years]

 

The SLTs are quite like the old Pellix Canons (A33 and A55). However, the A300, 350, 380, 500, 550, and 580 all can use phase-detect and tracking AF while in live view too, and they're traditional mirror-flip DSLRs with no pellix see-through stuff. The reason Sony developed the Pellix on the SLTs was for phase-detect constant AF during video, which the DSLRs cannot do.

 

Personally I'm not interested in the Sony Pellix cameras as I don't use video and do tons of night and high ISO work, so any minor loss of light or risk of ghosting off the Pellix is a no-go for me...plus I do prefer optical viewfinders. When I'm out birding, and take my big traditional DSLR with 300mm F4 lens & 1.4x TC, and hold it down by my feet to shoot under a fence rail, with the screen tilted up towards me using live view, and fire off 7fps bursts of a swamp bird skittering along the surface of the water, I get very jealous looks from my friends who can't do such a thing with their DSLRs. We're all equals as far as image quality goes, but that's one nice trick up the sleeve of the Sony DSLRs that I love about them.

 

To the O.P. - definitely try to get out there and handle them...that's an important factor to make sure you're comfortable with the cameras in hand. Whether it's Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus, Pentax - you want to make sure you like holding, carrying, and shooting with it. And do try to take a peek at the mirrorless cameras too, as they might be a good middle ground for you. Best of luck, and feel free to ask any other advice.

[bayoubelle]

Thanks again everyone. I am definitely going to have to study everything you told me. The vari-angle LCD screen isn't the most important thing for me. I just thought it would be nice. I'm sure I can learn to use the viewfinder again. We have an old Pentax K-1000 film camera that took the best pictures of anything we have ever had and I miss that so I want to get back into the realm of SLR's again. I think it still works, but I am hooked on digital now and don't really want to deal with film any more. So I'm hoping to figure out what is the right camera for me and I think with all your suggestions I will be able to do just that.

 

Vicki

[zackiedawg]

Do you still have any worthwhile lenses from that Pentax? If you do, it might be worth considering a digital camera that can use those Pentax K-mount lenses. There are 3 primary choices that can work with those lenses: First, any Pentax digital camera is backwards compatible with any Pentax SLR lens. So some current Pentax cameras might be worth a look. Second, the mirrorless camera systems are all capable via an inexpensive adapter ($30) of using lenses from Pentax K-mount...actually ANY lens mount ever, just by buying the little adapter ring. So the Micro4:3 Olympus and Pentax cameras, the Sony NEX cameras, and the Samsung NX cameras can all use your existing Pentax lenses.

 

Just another thing to think about. If you only have one cheap kit lens from that camera, it's not enough to be worth the trouble. But if you had 2 or 3 lenses, and some maybe were good lenses like a fast F1.7 prime or a nice telephoto, then you can save quite a lot going with a system that can use those lenses and have a nice starter kit already.

[bayoubelle]

It's been so long since I used that camera I don't remember exactly, but I know I had a zoom lens and I think I had a portrait lens. I would have to go find them and see.

 

Since someone on here told me about the Sony Alpha a55 I have been researching it. Do you think my Pentax lenses would work with that particular Sony? It really does seem to fit just about everything I was looking for. I looked online at the camera store here in town and they don't sell Sony. I need to find someone that sells it locally so I can go see it for myself.

 

I'll look when I get home from work and see exactly what lenses I have for the Pentax and let you know. That would be great if I could use what I have already to get started!

[zackiedawg]

Unfortunately, the Pentax lenses wouldn't work with most DSLRs, at least not without clunky big adapters with glass elements that compromise quality, if at all. If you go with any DSLR, you'd have to stick with Pentax DSLRs to use your Pentax lenses. The mirrorless systems are the only ones that can use anyone else's lenses with nothing more than a little adapter ring.

 

The A55 is a compact, fast APS-C sensor camera with lots of features, good video ability, tilting LCD, and an excellent live view system, so it sounds certainly worth considering for your needs. You may possibly find one in a 'big box' store like a 'Best Buy' or 'Fry's' (not sure who's the big retailer for electronics in your area)...sometimes even a Sears. You can check out either the A55 or A33 - even if you're looking to buy the A55, the A33 is the same size and design and will give you a chance to handle the camera and see how it feels and works in your hands. The A55 is just an upgraded model over the A33, so they are quite similar. Also, the new A35 (replacement for the A33) is just about to hit the market, with some improvements - you can consider waiting on that and check the price, or go for the A55 and save some money on some good closeout sale prices.

[bayoubelle]

I found my lenses. I have a Mitakon MC Zoom lens - 80-200mm. I also have a DeJur Auto 2x Teleconverter. This is the lens that I thought was the portrait lens. I also found a flash that we bought. It is an Achiever 632T. It came with 3 color filters and a wide-angle diffuser that I don't think we ever used.

 

Do you think it would be worth buying a camera that these lenses would fit on or should I just start from scratch and get all new ones? They look brand new but they are so old I don't know if they would work as well as the new lenses. Plus I'm sure they weren't very expensive to start with.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

Vicki

[zackiedawg]

I wouldn't let the lens be a deciding factor. If you actually decide you like the Pentax DSLRs, or the mirrorless cameras, then you get a little bonus and can play with your old lens...but it's not a real high grade lens and they are going for $20-50 on eBay, so I don't think it's worth being part of the decision. Pick the camera you like most, and if it ends up working with the old lens too...cool. BTW - you might get $20-50 for it if you eBay things - so if you don't end up being able to use it you might get something for it. Old film cameras aren't really worth much anymore, but old film lenses are seeing a bit of a renaissance due to the mirrorless camera popularity.

[awboater]

I sold an old '70s vintage Canon 28mm f/2.8 FD lens a few weeks ago on eBay for around $40. This was an old Canon mount lens (Canon changed the mount with AF lenses), so it won't even mount on a Canon camera made in the last 20 years (part of the story of why I changed to Nikon in the early '90s).

 

Whether or not there is an adapter available for it I am not sure, but it was a left-over from my old lenses. I was surprised that it sold so quickly.

 

So there is some residual value I suppose to those old lenses on eBay. As zackiedawg suggests, you may be able to clear out your old lenses for some value.

[bayoubelle]

I don't know. I looked on eBay after I posted the message and it looks like they are going for about $10 each. I'm not sure I would want to even deal with the trouble for that. But it was worth a thought.

[pierces]

... but old film lenses are seeing a bit of a renaissance due to the mirrorless camera popularity.

 

Speaking from personal experience Justin?

 

:D

 

Dave

[zackiedawg]

I may have picked up a few old lenses here and there for cheap. ;) Of course, I do see the prices rising on some of them...though they're still excellent bargains for the build and optical quality you get.

 

OP - I've seen those going cheap at around $10 - but I have seen a few scoring $20-50 - it will depend on a few things: condition (you mentioned yours was very good), no fungus inside, does it include the caps, and what's the maximum aperture (some I saw were F4 constant, some F4.5, and some variable aperture...the F4s are the most valuable...the front of the lens would say something like 1:4 if it's an F4 constant. You might get $35-50 for it if it meets all those variables.

[bayoubelle]

I just wanted to say thanks again for all the help deciding on a DSLR. I bought the Nikon D5100 and I got the 55-300mm kit lens along with the 18-55mm lens. I think this will get me started. Hopefully as time goes by I will be able to add to my lens collection. Now I'm ready for the weekend so I can go shoot!

[zackiedawg]

Congratulations! Now you can finally get out there and start enjoying your camera. Experiment with it - push your boundaries - don't be afraid to try anything and everything. If it doesn't come out, figure out why or what you could try differently, and delete it. That's the great thing about digital!

[c230k]

Great choice, I have the D5100 and D7000, like the size and ability of the D5100. Also takes great video.

Enjoy

Tom :)