Legend Singapore to Dubai 28February 2012

[MARIANH]

We are considering this voyage because of the interesting itinerary.

 

Does anyone know the current state of a pirate threat in the Arabian Sea viz route Mumbai to Sur?

 

Also, it is some years since we were on the Legend, having cruised mainly on the big sisters. Can anyone comment on the current Legend experience. For example is it suffering the " economies" witnessed in other threads? And specifically, is there smoking allowed in any public rooms?

 

Thanks in advance.:)

[Flamin_June]

We are doing Sur to Mumbai on the Legend this December.

 

As far as I am aware the pirate problem is more of an issue in waters further south, closer to the Horn of Africa and the Somalian coast. Having said that, I recall reading elsewhere ( and I can't remember where - perhaps the SB blog) that the Indian Navy provided a discrete submarine escort for the ?Legend during the passage between Mumbai and Oman. I think this was around the time of the terorist attacks on Mumbai railway station and the Taj Palace Hotel (amongst others), so I suspect the operation was partly a show of strength and partly in case of perceived possible attacks emanating from Pakistan, rather than pirates.

 

While it is a relatively unusual itinerary, I note that there are a number of cruise lines offering similar voyages which include Mumbai- Sur/Muscat or vice-versa, so I don't think piracy is a major issue on this particular stretch.

[JaneBP]

This was posted in August in a smoking thread:

What is the smoking policy onboard?

 

"For the comfort of all guests, most public areas on board are smoke-free. Cigarette smoking is permitted in the following areas:

 

•Observation Bar/Lounge – On the starboard side (except during coffee and tea service hours)

•Sky Bar – At the bar and starboard side deck area ( except during Sky Grill food service on Seabourn Pride, Spirit & Legend)

•Seabourn Square Terrace – on the starboard side deck area

 

Guests are asked to refrain from smoking pipes and cigars anywhere inside the ship, including in guest suites, on verandas and balconies. Cigar and pipe smoking is permitted only on open decks (Seabourn Pride, Spirit & Legend) and only on the starboard side deck area of Seabourn Square Terrace on Seabourn Odyssey, Sojourn & Quest.

 

If you have any doubts about any area, please consult your onboard staff."

[B767drvr]

As far as I am aware the pirate problem is more of an issue in waters further south, closer to the Horn of Africa and the Somalian coast. Having said that, I recall reading elsewhere ( and I can't remember where - perhaps the SB blog) that the Indian Navy provided a discrete submarine escort for the ?Legend during the passage between Mumbai and Oman.

 

Sorry, but as soon as I catch my breath and stop laughing...

 

I'm very skeptical that the Indian navy (what ... all 3 ships?) has anything better to do than escort a small american cruise ship a thousand miles... sorry, but am quite sure you fell for the, "Miss, all is well..." siren.

[jagi]

I was on this cruise last year and we DID have an escort. I thought it was French, but I won't swear to that. Several passengers were on the verandah having breakfast when they spied pirate ships in the distance. The escort took off like a bat out of hell, and the passengers watched through binoculars as the mother ship and the smaller ones turned and went the other way. Moral. If you are going to be traveling in pirate waters, the safest place to be is on a Seabourn ship.

[wripro]

As evidenced by when pirates tried to attack the Spirit several years ago.

[jagi]

Aha. Seabourn was unprepared for a pirate attack and still managed to outrun the pirates.

 

[JaneBP]

Aha. Seabourn was unprepared for a pirate attack and still managed to outrun the pirates.

 

 

Making our Norm famous in the process!

[Flamin_June]

I have done a little research since post #2.

The OP is quite right to raise this issue. Over the last year or so there has been increasing Somalian pirate activity in the seas north and east of the Horn of Africa. Attacks on vessels making the crossing from Mumbai to Oman/Dubai are becoming more frequent, as are those on vessels closer to the Indian coast. The Pirates are now using previously hijacked merchant vessels as 'mother ships,' with a much bigger range, to launch their small attack craft much further out at sea. Earlier this month the Indian President spoke about the increasing threat to Indian maritime security, while both the Emirates and Oman are also increasingly highlighting the threat.

 

A number of cruise ships in these waters now carry water cannon, propeller entangling equipment and other security/defensive items, as well as one or two crew with a military background.

 

Up to date data indicates recent attacks off the coast of Oman and in the Laccadive Sea (This may explain the change of itinerary for the Legend in December, now avoiding the Lakshadeep Isles, and previously put down to 'operational reasons'). There are also reports of continuing pirate activity in the Straits of Malacca and around Phuket (which may also explain other itinerary changes).

 

I am sure that Seabourn management take these issues very seriously. Seabourn cruises in the region were cancelled entirely in 2009 because of the perceived pirate threat.

 

In response to post #4: the Indian Navy is the 4th largest in the world, and is part of the international effort to combat piracy in these waters (which includes providing escort when possible).

 

The threat is probably greater than I suggested in post#2. However I am reasonably confident that Seabourn is taking all sensible precautions. I have not written to SB club to ask - may do so, but expect the usual waffle in reply.

 

Here is a link to an account of a recent (Jan 2011) attempt at hijacking a Saga vessel. I particularly like the detail about the pianist playing Rule Britania !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/8258049/British-cruise-ship-pursued-by-pirates-fitted-with-special-security-measures.html

[wripro]

I too would feel secure in trusting Seabourn not to put its passengers in danger. They are as aware of the problems as we are and I am sure they have proper defensive (and offensive) measures in place. In today's world we cannot let things like that deter us from traveling or we would never go anywhere. There is no place on Earth completely safe from potential threats.

[MARIANH]

I have done a little research since post #2.

The OP is quite right to raise this issue. Over the last year or so there has been increasing Somalian pirate activity in the seas north and east of the Horn of Africa. Attacks on vessels making the crossing from Mumbai to Oman/Dubai are becoming more frequent, as are those on vessels closer to the Indian coast. The Pirates are now using previously hijacked merchant vessels as 'mother ships,' with a much bigger range, to launch their small attack craft much further out at sea. Earlier this month the Indian President spoke about the increasing threat to Indian maritime security, while both the Emirates and Oman are also increasingly highlighting the threat.

 

A number of cruise ships in these waters now carry water cannon, propeller entangling equipment and other security/defensive items, as well as one or two crew with a military background.

 

Up to date data indicates recent attacks off the coast of Oman and in the Laccadive Sea (This may explain the change of itinerary for the Legend in December, now avoiding the Lakshadeep Isles, and previously put down to 'operational reasons'). There are also reports of continuing pirate activity in the Straits of Malacca and around Phuket (which may also explain other itinerary changes).

 

I am sure that Seabourn management take these issues very seriously. Seabourn cruises in the region were cancelled entirely in 2009 because of the perceived pirate threat.

 

In response to post #4: the Indian Navy is the 4th largest in the world, and is part of the international effort to combat piracy in these waters (which includes providing escort when possible).

 

The threat is probably greater than I suggested in post#2. However I am reasonably confident that Seabourn is taking all sensible precautions. I have not written to SB club to ask - may do so, but expect the usual waffle in reply.

 

Here is a link to an account of a recent (Jan 2011) attempt at hijacking a Saga vessel. I particularly like the detail about the pianist playing Rule Britania !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/8258049/British-cruise-ship-pursued-by-pirates-fitted-with-special-security-measures.html

 

Thank you so much for this excellent piece of research that I have shared with my wife. Initially, she thought it could be quite exciting if our cruise attracted the attention of pirates. After I explained that Johnny Depp was unlikely to be swashbuckling in this neck of the woods, her enthusiasm waned. Now considering options and two weeks in Bognor is looking increasingly attractive. Especially if we are to believe B767dvr's earlier chilling post that some may have seen.

Your link to an attempted hijack of a Saga vessel made interesting reading. I wonder if they knew what they might be getting into tackling Saga passengers. I would fear for their safety - the pirates that is.

 

Carry on Cruising.

[B767drvr]

In response to post #4: the Indian Navy is the 4th largest in the world, and is part of the international effort to combat piracy in these waters (which includes providing escort when possible).

 

 

Flamin,

 

Sorry if I came across snarky in my post.

 

The international naval contingent combatting piracy near Somalia varies in size between 5-10 vessels. 30,000 ships transit the 2,000,000 square mile area annually. The Indian contingent is 3 ships, at most, dedicated at any given time to this operation.

 

I apologize if you find this offensive, but I do not believe an Indian submarine would be assigned to escort a small cruise ship.

 

 

Here are some misc. facts from wiki regarding the piracy threat:

 

 

>>Summary of recent events

 

Somali pirates have attacked hundreds of vessels in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean region, though most attacks do not result in a successful hijacking. In 2008, there were 111 attacks which included 42 successful hijackings.[41] However, this is only a fraction of the up to 30,000 merchant vessels which pass through that area.[42] The rate of attacks in January and February 2009 was about 10 times higher than during the same period in 2008 and "there have been almost daily attacks in March",[41] with 79 attacks,[43] 21 successful, by mid April. Most of these attacks occur in the Gulf of Aden but the Somali pirates have been increasing their range and have started attacking ships as far south as off the coast of Kenya in the Indian Ocean.

 

Human cost

Somali piracy operations exact significant human cost. Thus in 2010, 4,185 seafarers had been attacked and 1,090 were held hostage, a third of these were abused.[102] According to Reuters, 62 seafarers died out of over 3,500 captives during a four year period having been murdered, or from suicide or malnutrition.[103] Many seafarers are traumatized after release.

 

<<

[jagi]

I have complete faith in Seabourn. They will have up to the minute information and avoid and danger.

[jagi]

Any danger

[MARIANH]

I have complete faith in Seabourn. They will have up to the minute information and avoid and danger.

 

How reassuring. Will you be joining any of the Seabourn cruises through pirate waters? If so, perhaps you would be kind enough to post reports. Unless you are otherwise engaged.

[lincslady]

How reassuring. Will you be joining any of the Seabourn cruises through pirate waters? If so, perhaps you would be kind enough to post reports. Unless you are otherwise engaged.

 

When I saw this original post we had only an hour earlier been thinking of doing this cruise (and ?looking forward to meeting you, MarianH). Stupidly we had never noticed that there are problems around the Gulf area. Now very much having second thoughts having read everything posted here.

 

It is a shame - we have done more or less this itinerary years ago on Radisson Song of Flower and loved it. It finished at the Taj hotel in Mumbai then, with two nights there in the old wing. Bliss!

[MARIANH]

Prudence ( not my wife) suggests that this cruise should be relegated, pro tem, to position 101 on our "101 Things to do before you die" list ( bucket list in USspeak?).

 

Pity:(

 

However, thanks for the helpful information.

[jagi]

Yes, I will be doing this cruise. Were in pirate waters last year. We were watched VERY CAREFULLY and captain was in constant touch with coast guard, Seabourn, and our escort ship. Somewhat different itinerary this time, but still going around Oman. Nothing to fear.

[Flamin_June]

we have done more or less this itinerary years ago on Radisson Song of Flower and loved it. It finished at the Taj hotel in Mumbai then, with two nights there in the old wing. Bliss!

 

Lincslady - we too are having two nights at the Taj Palace, in the old wing, after stepping off the Legend. Clearly great minds think alike.

 

There is a comprehensive review of recent pirate activity here

http://gcaptain.com/piracy-indian-ocean-white-paper?23741

 

Having also read the following account (link below) I have now managed to persuade myself that the reasons for the Legend's change of itinerary this December is rooted in these events. I now confess to feeling a tad churlish in originally thinking this was to do with cost-cutting - although it is partly Seabourn's fault in not providing me with a clear explanation ( though can now see why they may have beemn reluctant to do so).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Minicoy_Island

 

As to how safe it is - however snooty one may get about HAL management cutbacks, I do not for one minute think that Seabourn would take risks with their passengers safety. Call me naive, if you will (deafening roar is heard off-screen).

 

Having looked into this, Piracy is on the increase everywhere, including the South China Seas ( always been there) and the Caribbean.

I will have to put my faith in Seabourn. However, what was once a relaxing idyll in the tropical waters of the Romantic Indian Ocean is rapidly assuming a rather more edgy and less desireable outlook.

[harbormaster]

Hello: We took the Seabourn Sojourn Singapore to Dubai in March of this year. It was one of our favorite cruises ever and we felt completely safe with Seabourn. Please do not be dissuaded from taking this excellent journey.

Seabourn was well prepared for any piracy activity. There were a few signs that the passengers could actually see - extra patrols on decks, the sound cannons at the ready, a very slight change in course. We also were advised by the Captain that there was indeed a vessel from the Indian Navy shadowing us.

We have been in pirate waters three times with Seabourn. Once was on the Spirit shortly after the attack on the Spirit. I can tell you that Seabourn takes passenger safety extremely seriously, and is well prepared for most any possibilities.

We also have attended a talk on Piracy while on Cunard QM2 a few years back. The speaker's main thrust was that cruise ships are prepared with preventative measures to avoid these problems at sea.

We did a review of the Seabourn Sojourn journey which is found at this link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1377422&highlight=sojourn+singapore+to+dubai

 

It was the reverse of your itinerary.

 

By the way, the security at the TAJ Hotel in Mumbai was unbelievable!!!

 

Enjoy!

[Flamin_June]

Thanks harbormaster.

I did read your posts several weeks ago - perhaps that's where I picked up the info on the Indian naval escort...

 

I appreciate your words of reassurance. And I certainly won't let all this put us off. We travel to Sri Lanka frequently and were there during the tsunami, have had bombs go off a couple of hundred yards from our hotel, I was in Tokyo a not long after their tsunami ( and drank the local water and ate the local seafood with no ill effects - my wife says she is getting used to the luminous green glow at night) - so a few pirates will be a mere bagatelle.

[MARIANH]

Thanks harbormaster.

I did read your posts several weeks ago - perhaps that's where I picked up the info on the Indian naval escort...

 

I appreciate your words of reassurance. And I certainly won't let all this put us off. We travel to Sri Lanka frequently and were there during the tsunami, have had bombs go off a couple of hundred yards from our hotel, I was in Tokyo a not long after their tsunami ( and drank the local water and ate the local seafood with no ill effects - my wife says she is getting used to the luminous green glow at night) - so a few pirates will be a mere bagatelle.

 

Recommend not going on deck at night in case your radioactive luminescence attracts critical attention from other mariners.

 

In the unlikely event you encounter buccaneers of malevolent intent, I suggest you retire to your cabin. And eat chocolates ( known to reduce blood pressure). You may wish to take your own supply in the event that Seabourn cuts have worsened.:rolleyes: