It's all in the way things are handled

[italianfemmy]

The past several months have shown the power that lies within the consumer base, given the strength of social media network sites that allow people to rally together.

 

First, Netflix came out of the blue with increases and an outrage poured across the internet, causing their stock to plummet and for them to lose nearly 1 million customers in a short month. Most people weren't mad over the increase but moreso at the way in which it was handled. Netflix also planned to separate streaming and DVDs by mail, splitting into 2 companies with another one called Quickster. Again, outrage over not being included in the decision process. Netflix realized their errors...apologized and kept the 1 company.

 

As a Netflix consumer, I never waivered in my decision to stay with them. However, I did understand why people were upset.

 

Second, Bank of America decided to start charging a 5 dollar fee per month if you used your card as a debit transaction to help them recover lost profit margins from a recent law that was passed. Outrage. Social media sites trending. Consumers changing to credit unions as several other larger banks were in line to follow suit with Bank of America.

 

A couple of days ago, Bank of America decides to retract this new imposed fee because all of the other major banks did as a result of the backlash.

 

As a Bank of America consumer, I never waivered or thought about dropping them. I did, however understand how people who live paycheck to paycheck would be affected by this and felt sorry for them.

 

Now, Carnival increases it's suggested tipping. Again, outcry. Many aren't complaining over the increase but moreso the manner in which it was handled. You would think that if anyone was paying attention to the trends of consumers and the power they have to band together now.. that the CEO's would put together a strategic plan to launch changes that would not royaly tick off the masses.

 

I will still pay the tip increase. But I understand how other people who were already booked feel like it's a change to the contract terms they agreed to and off of principle don't wish to pay the upcharge.

 

 

I do not think this makes people trailer trash or any other ridiculous verbage that people are throwing out as insults to them. If you happen to be a Netflix, Bank of America and Carnival consumer... with the expenses rising on all 3, out of the blue, in the same year... I can kind of see why some people might be peeved. :cool:

[H82seaUgo]

yup!

 

consumer power!

[pyroguy]

I doubt the increased tips are increasing anyone's take home pay...rather they may be decreasing the passenger:support staff ratio - and to keep pay the same, they need to increase tips on a per-person basis.

 

If this is truly the case, I'm happy with the change. I would rather get better service and would gladly pay for it.

[H82seaUgo]

I doubt the increased tips are increasing anyone's take home pay...rather they may be decreasing the passenger:support staff ratio - and to keep pay the same, they need to increase tips on a per-person basis.

 

If this is truly the case, I'm happy with the change. I would rather get better service and would gladly pay for it.

 

just how will you get better service from the entertainment, hotel staff, and guest services, which is where most of the increase is going?

[cruise_pirate]

The past several months have shown the power that lies within the consumer base, given the strength of social media network sites that allow people to rally together.

 

First, Netflix came out of the blue with increases and an outrage poured across the internet, causing their stock to plummet and for them to lose nearly 1 million customers in a short month. Most people weren't mad over the increase but moreso at the way in which it was handled. Netflix also planned to separate streaming and DVDs by mail, splitting into 2 companies with another one called Quickster. Again, outrage over not being included in the decision process. Netflix realized their errors...apologized and kept the 1 company.

 

As a Netflix consumer, I never waivered in my decision to stay with them. However, I did understand why people were upset.

 

Second, Bank of America decided to start charging a 5 dollar fee per month if you used your card as a debit transaction to help them recover lost profit margins from a recent law that was passed. Outrage. Social media sites trending. Consumers changing to credit unions as several other larger banks were in line to follow suit with Bank of America.

 

A couple of days ago, Bank of America decides to retract this new imposed fee because all of the other major banks did as a result of the backlash.

 

As a Bank of America consumer, I never waivered or thought about dropping them. I did, however understand how people who live paycheck to paycheck would be affected by this and felt sorry for them.

 

Now, Carnival increases it's suggested tipping. Again, outcry. Many aren't complaining over the increase but moreso the manner in which it was handled. You would think that if anyone was paying attention to the trends of consumers and the power they have to band together now.. that the CEO's would put together a strategic plan to launch changes that would not royaly tick off the masses.

 

I will still pay the tip increase. But I understand how other people who were already booked feel like it's a change to the contract terms they agreed to and off of principle don't wish to pay the upcharge.

 

 

I do not think this makes people trailer trash or any other ridiculous verbage that people are throwing out as insults to them. If you happen to be a Netflix, Bank of America and Carnival consumer... with the expenses rising on all 3, out of the blue, in the same year... I can kind of see why some people might be peeved. :cool:

 

Very well put! As a member of all three listed examples, you managed to say it very well!

[B and C Blake]

 

But I understand how other people who were already booked feel like it's a change to the contract terms they agreed to and off of principle don't wish to pay the upcharge.

 

Tipping is NOT within the realms of the cruise ticket contract.

Tipping is NOT mandatory.

All this uproar is .. JMHO ... crazy nonsense.

[pyroguy]

just how will you get better service from the entertainment, hotel staff, and guest services, which is where most of the increase is going?

 

Sorry, I should have explained myself better. Ratio is just a way of dividing one thing by another:

 

PAX:Staff Ratio = TotalNumPax / TotalNumStaff

 

in this case dividing the total number of passengers by the total number of staff. By increasing the staff totals (the denominator), you are effectively lowering the ratio (the answer). The same thing could be said of the inverse by increasing the Staff:Pax ratio by increasing the staff. Both are generally considered a better value...and I believe the industry standard is actually commonly the latter, sorry about that.

 

Roughly $4.5k per day per ship could hire a considerable number of additional staffmembers.

[Lisah101]

Just curious...what was the issue with the way it was announced? I heard they gave travel agents a heads up the day before as a professional courtesy, then notified the public within 24 hours of the travel agents hearing about it.

 

Did I miss something in the announcement? Personally, I didn't see anything that would put me in an uproar so I'm wondering what the issue was.

[iTouch]

The past several months have shown the power that lies within the consumer base, given the strength of social media network sites that allow people to rally together.

 

First, Netflix came out of the blue with increases and an outrage poured across the internet, causing their stock to plummet and for them to lose nearly 1 million customers in a short month. Most people weren't mad over the increase but moreso at the way in which it was handled. Netflix also planned to separate streaming and DVDs by mail, splitting into 2 companies with another one called Quickster. Again, outrage over not being included in the decision process. Netflix realized their errors...apologized and kept the 1 company.

 

As a Netflix consumer, I never waivered in my decision to stay with them. However, I did understand why people were upset.

 

Second, Bank of America decided to start charging a 5 dollar fee per month if you used your card as a debit transaction to help them recover lost profit margins from a recent law that was passed. Outrage. Social media sites trending. Consumers changing to credit unions as several other larger banks were in line to follow suit with Bank of America.

 

A couple of days ago, Bank of America decides to retract this new imposed fee because all of the other major banks did as a result of the backlash.

 

As a Bank of America consumer, I never waivered or thought about dropping them. I did, however understand how people who live paycheck to paycheck would be affected by this and felt sorry for them.

 

Now, Carnival increases it's suggested tipping. Again, outcry. Many aren't complaining over the increase but moreso the manner in which it was handled. You would think that if anyone was paying attention to the trends of consumers and the power they have to band together now.. that the CEO's would put together a strategic plan to launch changes that would not royaly tick off the masses.

 

I will still pay the tip increase. But I understand how other people who were already booked feel like it's a change to the contract terms they agreed to and off of principle don't wish to pay the upcharge.

 

 

I do not think this makes people trailer trash or any other ridiculous verbage that people are throwing out as insults to them. If you happen to be a Netflix, Bank of America and Carnival consumer... with the expenses rising on all 3, out of the blue, in the same year... I can kind of see why some people might be peeved. :cool:

 

I agree, however Netflix and Bank of America customers spoke with their dollars......so if cruise passengers are unhappy with Carnival and their policies they need to speak with theirs and book elsewhere. And we need to remember this is not a mandatory charge to begin with.....unlike your examples...

[italianfemmy]

Just curious...what was the issue with the way it was announced? I heard they gave travel agents a heads up the day before as a professional courtesy, then notified the public within 24 hours of the travel agents hearing about it.

 

Did I miss something in the announcement? Personally, I didn't see anything that would put me in an uproar so I'm wondering what the issue was.

 

 

A lot of people that already booked and have a pending cruise were upset that by the time they found out about it, there was not an option to pre-pay gratuities at the 10 dollars per day, per passenger rate which was the assumed rate when they booked their next voyage.

 

Carnival didn't send the email out until after you could no longer pre-pay. Not everyone is a CC member or would have known about this until they received that email.

 

A lot of people feel that if they booked when the suggested amount was $10.00 pp, per day that they should be grandfathered in at that rate. That only new bookings should have to pay the increase.

 

I am going to pay it. I care but I don't care enough to stress about it. But, I get where people are coming from. As a photographer, I book clients weddings sometimes almost 2 years in advance. My prices go up every year but I don't call the people who booked me in 2009 for a wedding in 2011 to tell them that since I raised my rates, they have to pay more. I suck it up and deal with it and keep my customers happy and hope they spend more money with me in other areas.

 

This thread really isn't about all of that though. It's moreso about the power in the masses given the social media platform to go viral instantly. And, about how companies should really think about that when they make their decisions.

[italianfemmy]

I agree, however Netflix and Bank of America customers spoke with their dollars......so if cruise passengers are unhappy with Carnival and their policies they need to speak with theirs and book elsewhere. And we need to remember this is not a mandatory charge to begin with.....

 

True but for cruises already booked for sailings that are occuring in the near future, the loss in nonrefundable passenger fare wouldn't be worth it. So, really it's like they have the situation by the balls so to speak.

 

A choice to cancel Netflix or switch banks is a relatively easy one that doesn't impact much. To change a cruise last minute would be a rather difficult and costly decision on the consumers pocket and energy.

[iTouch]

True but for cruises already booked for sailings that are occuring in the near future, the loss in nonrefundable passenger fare wouldn't be worth it. So, really it's like they have the situation by the balls so to speak.

 

A choice to cancel Netflix or switch banks is a relatively easy one that doesn't impact much. To change a cruise last minute would be a rather difficult and costly decision on the consumers pocket and energy.

 

They have the choice to take that extra dollar fifty off their bill....

[italianfemmy]

I agree, however Netflix and Bank of America customers spoke with their dollars......so if cruise passengers are unhappy with Carnival and their policies they need to speak with theirs and book elsewhere. And we need to remember this is not a mandatory charge to begin with.....unlike your examples...

 

You edited your post so I am replying again.. I know it's not mandatory which is why my original post says "Suggested". But in my opinion, it might as well be mandatory with the way it's handled. Who wants to go down to the Pursers desk, wait in an hour long line filled with disgruntled people and hang their head down to ask to remove them? Not me. Even if I was outraged about this, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be treated differently all week. I wouldn't want to have to wait in some ridiculous line of grumpy people while I am supposed to be enjoying my vacation. The way it's all set up makes it where it kind of becomes mandatory in a way.

 

And I am not saying that it's a bad thing. With the current system, the cruise workers need to not be stiffed on their tips.. as it's their income.

[iTouch]

You edited your post so I am replying again.. I know it's not mandatory which is why my original post says "Suggested". But in my opinion, it might as well be mandatory with the way it's handled. Who wants to go down to the Pursers desk, wait in an hour long line filled with disgruntled people and hang their head down to ask to remove them? Not me. Even if I was outraged about this, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be treated differently all week. I wouldn't want to have to wait in some ridiculous line of grumpy people while I am supposed to be enjoying my vacation. The way it's all set up makes it where it kind of becomes mandatory in a way.

 

And I am not saying that it's a bad thing. With the current system, the cruise workers need to not be stiffed on their tips.. as it's their income.

 

It is not kinda.....it is not mandatory. If it's not worth your time to have it removed than it was not really a big deal. You don't think it is a hassle to close out your account at a bank and sign up at another? Who has time for that?

All for the sake of five dollars......speak with your money not your feelings....

[big_duck]

Roughly $4.5k per day per ship could hire a considerable number of additional staffmembers.

 

Where would they sleep?

[italianfemmy]

It is not kinda.....it is not mandatory. If it's not worth your time to have it removed than it was not really a big deal. You don't think it is a hassle to close out your account at a bank and sign up at another? Who has time for that?

All for the sake of five dollars......speak with your money not your feelings....

 

Actually, I am speaking with logic and for the clear voice that continues to resonate every single time a company mishandles things like this. A thread was removed earlier and it wasn't breaking any rules but it was about this issue. Perhaps the public outcry is having an impact already. Who knows?

 

I won't be speaking with my money because it's not a big deal to me. I am in a position where paying an extra $21 for my cruise for the 2 of us on December 10th is fine with me. But, I used to be in a position when I first started sailing years back that I had to charge my cruises and figure out how to pay them off. I can understand from a paycheck to paycheck passengers point of view since I come from humble roots how this could be an issue for them.

 

I don't believe in the high and mighty, nose in the air philosophy that people should not cruise if they cannot afford to pay xyz in tips. For a family of 4 on a week long voyage, this would be an additional $42. For many families, that's grocery money for the week or 1/2 a week. They might never be in a position where they can afford more. So, should they never be able to have the wonderful experience of cruising? Should they be treated like second class citizens? I personally don't think so.

 

Some people budget every single penny. I know I sure used to. I even had this little hardback red ledger book and on separate pages, I had categories like "Gas for road trip", "Cruise Fare", "Gratuities", "Photos", "Land Excursions", "Soda." And I would write at the top of the page how much could be spent in each category and I would deduct them and keep a running ledger for the entire cruise so I would be okay financially.

 

Now, I just go and spend whatever and don't really think about it. But I still feel extremely humbled by where I came from and how things used to be for me and a soft spot goes out to other people who are in positions similar to the one I was in. Cruising has always been like therapy for me. It has always been the one thing I can do that really gets me out of a funk or inspires me into a new direction.

 

On that note and in closing, just because people can't really afford things doesn't mean they want everyone else to know what they can afford by walking down to a desk and removing tips. It puts people in an awkward position... almost like emotional blackmail. Some people don't care and will proudly remove them while other people are easily consumed with guilt even if they feel they're doing the right thing for themselves.

[iTouch]

Actually, I am speaking with logic and for the clear voice that continues to resonate every single time a company mishandles things like this. A thread was removed earlier and it wasn't breaking any rules but it was about this issue. Perhaps the public outcry is having an impact already. Who knows?

 

I won't be speaking with my money because it's not a big deal to me. I am in a position where paying an extra $21 for my cruise for the 2 of us on December 10th is fine with me. But, I used to be in a position when I first started sailing years back that I had to charge my cruises and figure out how to pay them off. I can understand from a paycheck to paycheck passengers point of view since I come from humble roots how this could be an issue for them.

 

I don't believe in the high and mighty, nose in the air philosophy that people should not cruise if they cannot afford to pay xyz in tips. For a family of 4 on a week long voyage, this would be an additional $42. For many families, that's grocery money for the week or 1/2 a week. They might never be in a position where they can afford more. So, should they never be able to have the wonderful experience of cruising? Should they be treated like second class citizens? I personally don't think so.

 

Some people budget every single penny. I know I sure used to. I even had this little hardback red ledger book and on separate pages, I had categories like "Gas for road trip", "Cruise Fare", "Gratuities", "Photos", "Land Excursions", "Soda." And I would write at the top of the page how much could be spent in each category and I would deduct them and keep a running ledger for the entire cruise so I would be okay financially.

 

Now, I just go and spend whatever and don't really think about it. But I still feel extremely humbled by where I came from and how things used to be for me and a soft spot goes out to other people who are in positions similar to the one I was in. Cruising has always been like therapy for me. It has always been the one thing I can do that really gets me out of a funk or inspires me into a new direction.

 

On that note and in closing, just because people can't really afford things doesn't mean they want everyone else to know what they can afford by walking down to a desk and removing tips. It puts people in an awkward position... almost like emotional blackmail. Some people don't care and will proudly remove them while other people are easily consumed with guilt even if they feel they're doing the right thing for themselves.

 

I was just commenting on your comparisons to Netflix and Bank of America.....now you want to debate whether people should cruise if they can't afford to pay tips? Really?

[B and C Blake]

I can understand from a paycheck to paycheck passengers point of view since I come from humble roots how this could be an issue for them.

 

Some people budget every single penny. I know I sure used to. I even had this little hardback red ledger book and on separate pages, I had categories like "Gas for road trip", "Cruise Fare", "Gratuities", "Photos", "Land Excursions", "Soda." And I would write at the top of the page how much could be spent in each category and I would deduct them and keep a running ledger for the entire cruise so I would be okay financially.

 

 

If a $1.50pp per day is that much of a big deal ... what the heck god forbid a medical emergency/ miss the ship at port etc should arise would these same people do?? Just saying

[Mikel1733]

Carnival bean counters recognized that if they increased the suggested tip they could expand the base of employees compensated by tips, and it would be done with money that did not constitute taxable income to Carnival. It also allows the published base price of a cruise to remain lower. If the trend continues for more employees to be compensated by tips you will see the amount of tip increased again, not to compensate the traditionally tipped employee.......but instead to broaden the base.

[italianfemmy]

I was just commenting on your comparisons to Netflix and Bank of America.....now you want to debate whether people should cruise if they can't afford to pay tips? Really?

 

It is related. You say the tips aren't mandatory. The fact of the matter is that consumers are emotionally blackmailed into paying them based on the way the system is set up. You have to remove them because they are auto added. You don't get a choice to just add them if you wish. You have to go do something to remove them. If they put this option on peoples tvs, where they could discretely do it, then I feel it would be more optional. Forcing people to do something that they feel is embarassing makes it seem more mandatory.

 

I know a lot of people that won't even complain if they receive poorly cooked food at a land based restaurant that they're paying a lot of money for. Because they feel it is humiliating to call attention to their table and risk getting someone in trouble.

 

Perhaps I did go off on a bit of a tangent, as I am merely defending the people who are being attacked in the numerous threads and are being treated like crap because their financial situation isn't as secure as someone elses. Just because some of make more money than other people doesn't give us the right to look down our noses at them and say they shouldn't cruise. That really ticks me off.

 

I am not a sheepish person. If I have a problem with something, I speak out about it. If I receive crap service, I'll walk to the Pursers desk with my head held high and tell them about it. My girlfriend on the other hand, would rather avoid conflict and suck it all up and deal with it. And she would never go complain. It's just not in her nature. The point is that it's all related. The psychological impact of the situation forces people that perhaps truly can't afford the increase to pay it anyway. And it's further perpetuated by other threads where some people feel it's their place to tell others that they shouldn't be cruising because they don't make as much money.

[GaNavy]

The past several months have shown the power that lies within the consumer base, given the strength of social media network sites that allow people to rally together.

 

First, Netflix came out of the blue with increases and an outrage poured across the internet, causing their stock to plummet and for them to lose nearly 1 million customers in a short month. Most people weren't mad over the increase but moreso at the way in which it was handled. Netflix also planned to separate streaming and DVDs by mail, splitting into 2 companies with another one called Quickster. Again, outrage over not being included in the decision process. Netflix realized their errors...apologized and kept the 1 company.

 

As a Netflix consumer, I never waivered in my decision to stay with them. However, I did understand why people were upset.

 

Second, Bank of America decided to start charging a 5 dollar fee per month if you used your card as a debit transaction to help them recover lost profit margins from a recent law that was passed. Outrage. Social media sites trending. Consumers changing to credit unions as several other larger banks were in line to follow suit with Bank of America.

 

A couple of days ago, Bank of America decides to retract this new imposed fee because all of the other major banks did as a result of the backlash.

 

As a Bank of America consumer, I never waivered or thought about dropping them. I did, however understand how people who live paycheck to paycheck would be affected by this and felt sorry for them.

 

Now, Carnival increases it's suggested tipping. Again, outcry. Many aren't complaining over the increase but moreso the manner in which it was handled. You would think that if anyone was paying attention to the trends of consumers and the power they have to band together now.. that the CEO's would put together a strategic plan to launch changes that would not royaly tick off the masses.

 

I will still pay the tip increase. But I understand how other people who were already booked feel like it's a change to the contract terms they agreed to and off of principle don't wish to pay the upcharge.

 

 

I do not think this makes people trailer trash or any other ridiculous verbage that people are throwing out as insults to them. If you happen to be a Netflix, Bank of America and Carnival consumer... with the expenses rising on all 3, out of the blue, in the same year... I can kind of see why some people might be peeved. :cool:

 

I see your point, but if Carnival were to reinstate the fuel surcharge - which, given the price of oil, they could do at any time - you would either pay it, whether or not you had already made "final" payment, or you wouldn't be allowed to board. That would raise the price of your cruise by $9/day, six times more than this tip increase. Sure, you would have known about it ahead of time, but you'd still have to pay more - and depending on the length of your cruise, maybe a lot more - than you thought you were going to.

[italianfemmy]

If a $1.50pp per day is that much of a big deal ... what the heck god forbid a medical emergency/ miss the ship at port etc should arise would these same people do?? Just saying

 

This is a logic that I can relate to. When I cruise, I always make sure I have access to at 5k on me in the event that we have to purchase plane tickets back from another country, etc.

 

But the plain truth is that most people can't say that they have that much disposable income just laying around. Just because someone has a couple grand on a credit card that they COULD use in an emergency doesn't mean they "can" afford to pay extra money in gratuities.

 

Many people can't even truly afford the cruise because they're 100% charging the entire thing (I did this my first 2 cruises before I owned my businesses.) I paid them off though and wound up paying way more for them and will never do that again. But, I am also not going to tell people they shouldn't cruise if they can't afford to tip extra. It's simply not my place to tell people what they "should" and "shouldn't" do.

[italianfemmy]

I see your point, but if Carnival were to reinstate the fuel surcharge - which, given the price of oil, they could do at any time - you would either pay it, whether or not you had already made "final" payment, or you wouldn't be allowed to board. That would raise the price of your cruise by $9/day, six times more than this tip increase. Sure, you would have known about it ahead of time, but you'd still have to pay more - and depending on the length of your cruise, maybe a lot more - than you thought you were going to.

 

 

I didn't get why people were mad when they added the fuel surcharge in the first place. I believed that it was obvious that if the prices of oil were going up by the barrel, that the cruise lines would have to recover this cost. Gas at the pump is way less right now than it was 6 months ago where I live so it would seem odd if they decided to implement the surcharge at this point. It seemed totally rational though when they decided to do it before.

 

To me, there is a difference between an added neccessary expense and a recommended expense.

[cherjoe5]

OMG.....i can't believe all these complaints......it is just a SUGGESTED AMOUNT.........if you are not happy with carnival then go pay more to cruise on one of the other lines ........JMHO

cheryl

[jtdlmc]

Just curious...what was the issue with the way it was announced? I heard they gave travel agents a heads up the day before as a professional courtesy, then notified the public within 24 hours of the travel agents hearing about it.

 

Did I miss something in the announcement? Personally, I didn't see anything that would put me in an uproar so I'm wondering what the issue was.

 

And some of these TAs and PVPs emailed their booked clients and gave them the heads up that if they pre-paid their grats on Monday they would not have to pay the increased rate. That should not have happened.