RCCL violates ADA

[ticruiser12]

We have 35 passengers and my wedding booked on Royal Caribbean and are set to cruise in Feb. 2012. RCCL is now telling us that my father cannot sail with us because he does self-administered hemodialysis. He has done home dialysis for a couple years with no problems. We sailed on NCL last year with no problem. He needs no assistance from RCCL. All we need is to have supplies delivered to the ship. Other cruise lines will allow it but not RCCL. A phone call to Dept of Justice resulted in a representative telling me that it is a violation against the Americans with Disabilities Act. Royal Caribbean doesn't seem to care and said that there is nothing they can do for us......UNREAL!

[missypriss19]

I would then file a formal complaint with the RCCL and the federal government.

[bluegirlum]

Have you specifically contacted their special needs contact people? Sometimes "regular" booking agents don't know all the policies, but people who specifically deal with special needs passengers can get you the help you need.

 

They have a special "Planning Ahead" section on the website where you can send in a "Guest Special Needs Form". Have you tried that? It may be an issue of just not having spoken to the right person. They actually specifically list "dialysis supply delivery" as something they accommodate so I would check again.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=planning_ahead

 

It's in their best interest to accommodate all their passengers, so I would be stunned if they didn't try to work with you--especially since you are bringing a big group. I would try again. Good luck!

[ticruiser12]

We have been 'round and 'round with the access dept. (special needs). They will let you deliver peritoneal dialysis supplies but not hemodialysis. And they seem to care less that we are a large group. Very frustrating. We will be filing a complaint with the ADA but all we wanted was a fun, relaxing vacation...not a battle.

[PennyAgain]

Filing a complaint with the ADA will do no good by the time of your cruise and may do no good at all as there have been HUGE funding cuts in that area.

 

And you bet the cruise ships know it.

 

You need to do an online search for a non-profit organization that advocates for persons with the appropriate disability and see what course of action (if any) they can advise.

[montgomeryfamily]

First, you should file a complaint with the Dept of Justice immediately and make certain that the rep knows of your timelines.

 

Secondly, I don't know what supplies are involved with the procedure, but is it possible for those of your group to carry these supplies onboard? It sounds like you have a lot of guests, so if a number of the guests could carry some of the supplies onboard, then you could do this and Royal won't know any different. We carry on an oxygen concentrator, a CPAP and quite a number of catheters for self cathing and have never had a problem. We get the red medical bags from medical and tell them it is from self catherization and the cabin steward not only brings the bags to the room, but also takes them for disposal. So you can carry on a lot of medical equipment and supplies and I would be surprised if anyone said anything at all as we have never had anyone to even inquire through security.

 

I don't know what is involved in the procedure, so maybe that is where the glitch is, but if it is just the supplies, I would proceed with lots of self help from the wedding guests. Since this is your wedding, I assume lots of planning has already gone on and it would be difficult to change to NCL or something else. Plus of course you want your father there.

[arhillbilly]

I would go with a different cruise line...why give RCL your business when they are going to act like that....isn't there another cruise line going out of the same port the same day? Shouldn't be to hard to change if there is.....

[PennyAgain]

The Dept of Justice is no help in this situation. Funding for ADA enforcement was never enough but recent cut backs have made it nearly impossible to get any help at all.

 

There are many in Congress (and thousands of businesses) who wish to weaken the ADA by watering down enforcement.

 

Many of the cruise lines take any opportunity to take a medical situation and turn it into a denial of service.

 

If you want to improve ADA enforcement write and telephone your Congress people.

[mdvlprof]

I'm confused. Do ADA rules even apply to cruises? I thought cruises were covered by a different govt agency. Dept of Transportation?

[PennyAgain]

Any passenger ships that visit US ports have been thought to be covered by the requirements of the ADA, but the courts have gone first one way and then the opposite way on this issue.

 

As all sorts of businesses have been fighting and avoiding as much of the ADA as possible since the law was first passed and signed; it is not a surprise to me that with a lack of enforcement many companies including cruise companies have tried to ignor as much as possible.

 

For example, I have visited an upscale shopping center that had a hand rail on a set of 3 outside stairs. The railing got loose and was unreliable. The shopping center management solved the problem by removing that hand rail all together saying that they were avoiding the liability of having the loose hand rail. The local city codes do not specify a handrail for that short of a stairway. The issue continued when ALL of the handrails on sets of 3 stairs in that shopping center were removed (sawn off at the bases) and the discussion ended.

 

With government cutbacks we will have to live with many aspects of the ADA falling away.

 

We have many recent reports of cruise companies reducing the amount of help for passengers on gangways and on tenders. They are not going to provide services which they are not forced to do by law.

[celle]

We have 35 passengers and my wedding booked on Royal Caribbean and are set to cruise in Feb. 2012. RCCL is now telling us that my father cannot sail with us because he does self-administered hemodialysis. He has done home dialysis for a couple years with no problems. We sailed on NCL last year with no problem. He needs no assistance from RCCL. All we need is to have supplies delivered to the ship. Other cruise lines will allow it but not RCCL. A phone call to Dept of Justice resulted in a representative telling me that it is a violation against the Americans with Disabilities Act. Royal Caribbean doesn't seem to care and said that there is nothing they can do for us......UNREAL!

 

I realise that this is a tremendous problem for you and I am sympathetic.

 

I'm not American and I am not an expert on what the ADA covers. I do understand that it protects the rights of people who are disabled. However, I am an ex-nurse, I have looked after people having haemodialysis, and my own son had to be dialysed for acute kidney failure following an accident.

 

I can understand the reluctance of the cruise line to allow your father to cruise, and this is why:

 

• Unlike peritoneal dialysis, haemodialysis is done directly into the bloodstream. Therefore, every time you do haemodialysis, you open up the chance that infection will get directly into the bloodstream, potentially causing septicaemia, which is life-threatening.
  
• On a cruise ship, you will meet many pathogens that you have not encountered before (think how often people succumb to a "new" strain of cough or cold). Therefore, your father would be at greater risk of contracting an infection than when he is at home, with familiar pathogens.
  
• No matter how careful your father is while doing haemodialysis (and I am sure that he is careful), there is always a slight risk of contamination of the equipment while setting up and performing dialysis.
  
• In the worst-case scenario,should your father be unfortunate enough to get a severe infection while cruising, he would have to be medi-vacced to the nearest medical facility on-shore.
  

Given these factors, if I were in charge of the medical facilities on a cruise ship I, too, would be reluctant to allow him to cruise. It's a high risk that could have a fatal result.

 

If you do manage to persuade the cruise line to allow your father to cruise, do make sure that you have enough insurance to cover the cost of having an emergency medical evacuation from the ship for him.

[ticruiser12]

UPDATE: We win! After many, many phone calls to many, many people we are set to sail. RCI checked other cruiselines policy and found that they were the only one with a 2 sea day restriction. Obviously this is great news for us and hopefully this will help others. We refused to take no for an answer and although it was a long battle, RCI did the right thing.

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice, concern and motivation to continue the fight!

 

Bon Voyage!:)

[celle]

UPDATE: We win! After many, many phone calls to many, many people we are set to sail. RCI checked other cruiselines policy and found that they were the only one with a 2 sea day restriction. Obviously this is great news for us and hopefully this will help others. We refused to take no for an answer and although it was a long battle, RCI did the right thing.

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice, concern and motivation to continue the fight!

 

Bon Voyage!:)

 

I'm glad that things turned out to your satisfaction. I hope that your wedding goes off really well for you all.

 

Do remember to get full insurance cover for your father.

[6rugrats]

Was there some reason you just didn't book a cruise where you could use Dialysis at Sea? Cruise lines usually allow peritoneal , but not hemodiaylsis. How were you able to do this last year on NCL, as they specifially state this is not allowed?:

 

However, Norwegian Cruise Line does not have the ability to assist or administer hemo-dialysis treatments.

 

RCCL has the exact same exclusion:

Guests requiring continuous ambulatory peritoneal dialysis are welcome to board all Royal Caribbean International® vessels. However, Royal Caribbean does not have the ability to assist or administer hemo-dialysis treatments

 

I am glad you got what you wanted, but do not believe RCCL was in violation of ADA, and am actually surprised they agreed to this. Make sure you have this agreement in writing, so you get no surprises when you board. The portable hemodialysis machines designed for home use are not allowed on cruise ships.

 

In July 2010 the Department of Transportion set out Federal regulations for persons with disabilities traveling on boats and ships:

 

http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/documents/DOTPart/July2010final%20Accessible.pdf

 

The list is lengthy, but it basically prohibits vessel operators from charging extra for accessibility-related services, or denying passengers access bases on disabilities, etc. Read for details.

 

The Americans with Disabilities Act does not cover everything.

[missypriss19]

Thank you for the link. I took the time to skim thru this lengthy document and found one very important rule that I know they do not follow and that is holding HC rooms back until all rooms of that type are booked before they allow them open to the general public. I will definitely us this.

[ticruiser12]

6rugrats- Thanks for your input, however I am not sure where you got all of your information.

 

First- Dialysis at Sea is an outside company that administers hemodialysis. The only sail on 50-60 cruises a year. They are available for private sailings at a cost of $25,000 +.

 

Second- Home hemodialysis machines are allowed on cruiseships. NXStage patients have been sailing for the past 5 years with no reported issues. Infact, a group of NXStage patients got together in 2010 and sailed together http://www.nxstage.com/chronic_renal_care/upload/APM146_web.pdf

 

Both cruiselines state they cannot assist or administer hemodialysis. NXStagepatients don't require assistance from the cruiseline. They self administer everyday in the comfort of their own home assisted typically by a spouse or family member.

 

Please know that I am not trying to beat you up here. I simply want this be a help to others who may be looking for answer.

 

Thanks again for all of the responses that everyone has posted.

 

Bon Voyage!

[msw1023]

ticruiser

congratulations on your wedding. I'm happy that you were able to convince RCCL to allow your machine onboard.

I'm also a dialysis nurse and have sailed with dialysis at sea. I'm sorry their schedule didn't meet your needs. Even the nxstage takes up a fair amount of cabin space.

Make sure your Dad speaks with the technical department at his clinic. He may want to add an extra layer of filtration for his water system.

Also makes sure he checks his water connections carefully as any damage from leaks may prove expensive for him.

And have a wonderful time.

MArsha

[Chasey]

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/allaboutcruising/accessibleseas/otherNeeds.do

[6rugrats]

6rugrats- Thanks for your input, however I am not sure where you got all of your information.

 

First- Dialysis at Sea is an outside company that administers hemodialysis. The only sail on 50-60 cruises a year. They are available for private sailings at a cost of $25,000 +.

 

Second- Home hemodialysis machines are allowed on cruiseships. NXStage patients have been sailing for the past 5 years with no reported issues. Infact, a group of NXStage patients got together in 2010 and sailed together http://www.nxstage.com/chronic_renal_care/upload/APM146_web.pdf

 

Both cruiselines state they cannot assist or administer hemodialysis. NXStagepatients don't require assistance from the cruiseline. They self administer everyday in the comfort of their own home assisted typically by a spouse or family member.

 

Please know that I am not trying to beat you up here. I simply want this be a help to others who may be looking for answer.

 

Thanks again for all of the responses that everyone has posted.

 

Bon Voyage!

 

I am well aware of Dialysis at Sea.

 

I got my information directly from the Federal Register:

 

http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/documents/DOTPart/July2010final%20Accessible.pdf

 

I'm glad this worked out for you, but people should realize that the ADA is not an all encompassing law that covers everything. I do not believe under the new rules applied by the DOT that the cruise line was required, under ADA, to make these accomodations for your dad:

 

§ 39.87 What services are PVOs not required to provide to passengers with a disability on board a passenger vessel?

As a PVO, you are not required to provide extensive special assistance to passengers with a disability. For purposes of this section, extensive special assistance includes the following activities:

(a) Assistance in actual eating;

(b) Assistance within a toilet room or assistance elsewhere on the vessel with elimination functions; and

© Provision of medical equipment or services, or personal devices, except to the extent provided to all passengers.

[dispatcher726]

UPDATE: We win! After many, many phone calls to many, many people we are set to sail. RCI checked other cruiselines policy and found that they were the only one with a 2 sea day restriction. Obviously this is great news for us and hopefully this will help others. We refused to take no for an answer and although it was a long battle, RCI did the right thing.

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice, concern and motivation to continue the fight!

 

Bon Voyage!:)

 

I just found your thread. Sounds like you and I were fighting at the same time. I had booked a cruise for March of 2012 while on the Explorer in March of 2011. We had sailed with RCCL 4 times in the past with the NxStage system with no issues. Then whamo,,, I get a call saying they will no longer allow us to sail. They wanted us to book though Dialysis at Sea. First off Dialysis at Sea is expensive and not covered by insurance, second it is changing the way my husbands system is used to being treated. He would be going from 6 treatments a week to 3 and sure to make him ill (when he went in center he was sick all the time, what fun would a vacation be if he was sick and in bed all the time). I finally got a call from my travel agent in November saying they will now allow us to sail again. I had contacted the ADA, and Rich Berkowitz who is a NxStage user advocate who went to work changing policys for NxStage users. We just got back from our 11 days cruise, we had no issues, and had a great cruise.

MSW123 when we travel with the NxStage there is no water connections, everything is done by bags, and if there is the slightest leak at all we get an alarm, it really is a very safe system. We have been using it for 2 1/2 years and my husband has never felt so good.

[dispatcher726]

I am well aware of Dialysis at Sea.

 

I got my information directly from the Federal Register:

 

http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/documents/DOTPart/July2010final%20Accessible.pdf

 

I'm glad this worked out for you, but people should realize that the ADA is not an all encompassing law that covers everything. I do not believe under the new rules applied by the DOT that the cruise line was required, under ADA, to make these accomodations for your dad:

 

§ 39.87 What services are PVOs not required to provide to passengers with a disability on board a passenger vessel?

As a PVO, you are not required to provide extensive special assistance to passengers with a disability. For purposes of this section, extensive special assistance includes the following activities:

(a) Assistance in actual eating;

(b) Assistance within a toilet room or assistance elsewhere on the vessel with elimination functions; and

© Provision of medical equipment or services, or personal devices, except to the extent provided to all passengers.

 

6rugrats when we travel with my husband NxStage we ask for nothing from the cruise line or the staff. I have been thoughly trained to set up, administer and break down the system. We have cruised 6 times with the system and the only thing we have needed from the cruise line was for them to allow our supplies to be delivered to the port and then delivered to the room, just like everyones luggage. No one on the ship has any idea that we do 4 hours of treatment in out state room almost daily.

And I beg to differ on your advise about infection. Yes, there is always a chance for infection but anyone who has to deal with dialysis knows that PD has a much higher chance of infection then Hemo, and I am not sure about anyone else that does NxStage, but I personally purchase travel insurance that covers medivac even for a pre-exsisting condition. It cost a little more then your standand travel insurance, but I like to be safe.

Dialysis at sea was never an option for us, my husband never did well on the 3 day a week dialysis treatments, lucky for him we were able to get into a training program only 3 short months after he started dialysis, otherwise I think he would have been deceased by now. When he was going in center he was sick all the time, he would sleep and vomit get up go to dialysis then sleep and vomit till his next session, NxStage saved his life.

[wonkyjon]

Thank you for the link. I took the time to skim thru this lengthy document and found one very important rule that I know they do not follow and that is holding HC rooms back until all rooms of that type are booked before they allow them open to the general public. I will definitely us this.

 

I thin that you will find what they do is move guests who have booked these cabins if they are required by a wheelchair user.