Caution! New regulations dealing with cruising with a Green Card!

[DarthGrady]

We went to Port of Tampa last Thursday for a cruise on Jewel of the Seas. One of the people in our group is not a US citizen but has a valid green card (an older non-expiring type). My wife and I helped his family in doing lots of research before we went. We even went so far as to ask a Customs Officer about the situation last month as we debarked from Allure. Everyone said that he would be okay to cruise with his birth certificate, ID and green card.

 

The pier agents checked him without any problem and we got on board. Later in the day he was requested to go to the Guest Relations desk. They said that Customs needed to speak to him in the terminal. He had to go back ashore and was told that the regulations were recently changed (within the last few days) and that he would not be allowed to go. The Customs Officer didn't have a copy of this regulation since it was so new, and it wasn't even on their website yet.

 

The customs officer told them that there is some type of a certification form that is required now which you cannot get with an older style green card. Obviously a new card (with this new form) could not be obtained in one day at the pier. No exceptions could be made and no amount of arguing helped. RCI was equally unhelpful, simply blaming everything on Customs. There was another couple (with green cards) that had flown in from Italy and were also being denied boarding.

 

His family members decided to still go on the cruise, but the trip was understandably tarnished for them. RCI did allow his wife to call him for free from the GR desk but offered no other compensation or reimbursement. Obviously I'm very angry since we did so much research. Its not as if we just showed up hoping for the best like a bunch of dingbats. I'm writing this mostly as a heads up for others. But I'm also looking for anyone with ideas on where we can go from here to possibly recover some of their lost fare.

[crookedhalo]

I think I would start by getting a copy of the new regulation and see when the effective date is. There is usually a window while they are implementing that old regs apply. It could be that someone at the office in Tampa jumped the gun. If that's so, I would contact RCCL and see who they can connect you with in the Tampa office - good luck getting anything back, but you may save some other cruisers the same dilema:(

[Finbar127]

Wow that is a strange one. He was actually allowed to board before being denied? I would be hopping mad.

You could try writing corporate but I'm not sure how much good it will do. It was Customs that changed the rules at the last minute and it was Customs that decided to remove him from the ship so the responsibility is theirs. Also it is clearly noted in the agreement that it is the guest's responsibility to ensure they have all the proper documentation so RCCL could always hang their hat on that. The only thing that could work in your favor is that RCCL allowed him to board in the first place.

What a depressing situation that must have been. To be on the ship ready to go only to be kicked off at the last minute. I hope everything works out for your friend.

[Finbar127]

Something else just occurred to me. Did your friend do the online check-in and print his SetSail pass? If so, was he required to input his Green Card and birth certificate information? (I always use a passport so I don't know what other forms of ID you can input in the form when checking in). If he did, perhaps you could argue that since his documentation was accepted during the online check-in, RCCL had a responsibility to notify him that the rules had changed. It's very thin but perhaps it could help your friend get credit towards a future cruise.

[JLC@SD]

From RCL's website:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&pnav=2&faqSubjectName=Cruise+Documents&faqId=2814&faqSubjectId=329&faqType=faq

 

If you are holding an old edition ARC WITHOUT an expiration date, you will not be detained from entering the United States but U.S. Customs and Border Protection highly suggests that you apply for a new card before you sail.

[outtoseacruise]

One of my contractors here in Orlando is caught in the same situation. He tried to explain it to me and when he did it sounded totally unbelievable. From what he told me he can not cruise anymore from US Ports unless he leaves the country and then returns for the cruise. But he lives here now and owns a business? He stated it was something new and he was pretty much fed up with the hassel he gets and has debated giving his business to one of his employees and going back to England.

 

Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk

[DarthGrady]

Something else just occurred to me. Did your friend do the online check-in and print his SetSail pass? If so, was he required to input his Green Card and birth certificate information? (I always use a passport so I don't know what other forms of ID you can input in the form when checking in). If he did, perhaps you could argue that since his documentation was accepted during the online check-in, RCCL had a responsibility to notify him that the rules had changed. It's very thin but perhaps it could help your friend get credit towards a future cruise.

 

From RCL's website:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&pnav=2&faqSubjectName=Cruise+Documents&faqId=2814&faqSubjectId=329&faqType=faq

 

If you are holding an old edition ARC WITHOUT an expiration date, you will not be detained from entering the United States but U.S. Customs and Border Protection highly suggests that you apply for a new card before you sail.

 

His daughter and son-in-law tried to do his SetSail Pass for him but it didn't work. It has a place to input information from the green card, but it requires an expiration date which his card does not have. The agent at the pier had to check him in manually, but he was till allowed to board.

 

They (Customs & Immigration) recommend that people with the older green cards get the newer style (I can only assume that they have expiration dates now) but it does not say that it is required. According to the Customs Agent even the newer ones require this certification form, so even if he would have gotten a newer card he still would not have had the form with it.

[DarthGrady]

One of my contractors here in Orlando is caught in the same situation. He tried to explain it to me and when he did it sounded totally unbelievable. From what he told me he can not cruise anymore from US Ports unless he leaves the country and then returns for the cruise. But he lives here now and owns a business? He stated it was something new and he was pretty much fed up with the hassel he gets and has debated giving his business to one of his employees and going back to England.

 

Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk

 

Same thing here. This poor guy has been in the states legally since the 1950s. He owns a business, has a commercial drivers license and is married to a US citizen whom he has kids (and now grand kids) with. I understand the necessity for the Customs Officers, but situations like yours and ours is totally ridiculous!

[Cigar King]

Sorry for what happened to your friend, but, it doesn't sound like this was a RCI decision, but, rather the US Customs office. It sounds like RCI was fine withe his board, but, Customs said "no".

[Big_G]

I believe Green Cards with no expiration date are required to be renewed for security reasons. It doesn't sound like you can't put any of this on Royal. It sounds like Customs may have dropped the ball getting the information out.

[critterchick]

From RCL's website:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&pnav=2&faqSubjectName=Cruise+Documents&faqId=2814&faqSubjectId=329&faqType=faq

 

If you are holding an old edition ARC WITHOUT an expiration date, you will not be detained from entering the United States but U.S. Customs and Border Protection highly suggests that you apply for a new card before you sail.

 

I wonder when "highly suggests" became "required." If the customs officer didn't even have a copy of the regulation, I think it's absurd that the OP's friend was kicked off the ship.

 

It may not have been RCI's fault that the new rule wasn't communicated to anybody, but I think that it's a case of unjust enrichment for them to keep his cruise fare. Why should they profit from the government's ineptness?

[subtchr]

There was another couple (with green cards) that had flown in from Italy and were also being denied boarding.

 

I can certainly understand your frustration for your friend, but this situation doesn't seem right - didn't they need passports to be able to fly from Italy in the first place?

[Big_G]

I think I would start by getting a copy of the new regulation and see when the effective date is. There is usually a window while they are implementing that old regs apply. It could be that someone at the office in Tampa jumped the gun. If that's so, I would contact RCCL and see who they can connect you with in the Tampa office - good luck getting anything back, but you may save some other cruisers the same dilema:(

 

The 'proposed policy' change has been out there as early as 2007. Customs & Immigration has been suggesting since then that those card holders need to renew for security reasons. Apparently they have done a poor job getting out the actual notice of policy change. Most immigration attorneys recommend citizenship as opposed to renewing Green Cards that are that old. Out of curiosity, why would someone married to a US citizen with children and grandchildren who lives and owns a business in this country for that many years not apply for citizenship? Is there a benefit not to?

[Paulxyz2004]

I wonder when "highly suggests" became "required." If the customs officer didn't even have a copy of the regulation, I think it's absurd that the OP's friend was kicked off the ship.

 

It may not have been RCI's fault that the new rule wasn't communicated to anybody, but I think that it's a case of unjust enrichment for them to keep his cruise fare. Why should they profit from the government's ineptness?

 

RCI didn´t profit here, actually they lost onboard revenue. Why should RCI have to loose money here on the cruise fare for the governments ineptness?

 

The whole situation is entirely between the OP´s friend and customs, it has nothing to do with RCI and likely would have happened with any other line as well.

[SuzieQ123]

My husband has the green card with no expiration date. Just cruised on Explorer and had no issue at all. There could be something more to this story. I too read the RCCL "recommendation" and even called them and Immigration prior to sailing because I'd heard of issues like this before. RCCL said its Immigrations rules not theres, so we called Immigration, they confirmed he was fine to travel.

 

It "could" be someone is in violation of their green card rules. DUI charges with a green card holder are major issues.. you cannot travel with a charge like that, you will be detained upon re-entry. You cannot travel to Canada at all. I'm just throwing it out there, you never know what sort of secrets people have.

 

Oh and there are in fact certifications required depending on the country of citizenship and the ports of call

[uksimonusa]

I wonder when "highly suggests" became "required." If the customs officer didn't even have a copy of the regulation, I think it's absurd that the OP's friend was kicked off the ship.

 

It may not have been RCI's fault that the new rule wasn't communicated to anybody, but I think that it's a case of unjust enrichment for them to keep his cruise fare. Why should they profit from the government's ineptness?

 

The "highly suggested" has been on Royals web site for years, I know when my wife was going through the citizenship proccess, 2001,I belonged to an Immigration board similar to this one, and there was a lot of reports on there of people coming back into the US with the old style green card, and being admitted, but at the same time being told, it would be the last time they would be admitted and they needed to apply for a new green card, with photo and expiration.

 

The 'proposed policy' change has been out there as early as 2007. Customs & Immigration has been suggesting since then that those card holders need to renew for security reasons. Apparently they have done a poor job getting out the actual notice of policy change. Most immigration attorneys recommend citizenship as opposed to renewing Green Cards that are that old. Out of curiosity, why would someone married to a US citizen with children and grandchildren who lives and owns a business in this country for that many years not apply for citizenship? Is there a benefit not to?

 

There is no benefit not to apply for citizenship, for some people it is just the expense, and for those with unexpiring green cards there was no need.

 

When my green card expired it was a lot cheaper to apply for citizenship than to renew the green card, and, for me, being a USC and a UK citizen, gives me 2 governments behind me should something bad happen abroad

[Big_G]

The "highly suggested" has been on Royals web site for years, I know when my wife was going through the citizenship proccess, 2001,I belonged to an Immigration board similar to this one, and there was a lot of reports on there of people coming back into the US with the old style green card, and being admitted, but at the same time being told, it would be the last time they would be admitted and they needed to apply for a new green card, with photo and expiration.

 

 

 

There is no benefit not to apply for citizenship, for some people it is just the expense, and for those with unexpiring green cards there was no need.

 

When my green card expired it was a lot cheaper to apply for citizenship than to renew the green card, and, for me, being a USC and a UK citizen, gives me 2 governments behind me should something bad happen abroad

 

Thanks uksimonusa. It was a curiosity question. It sounds like there might be more to the story. As far as a refund, the rest of the family continued on with the cruise so I wouldn't think RCI would be inclined to refund anything.

[SuzieQ123]

I should add my husband also has an Italian passport. I would never attempt to travel out of the US without it. The immigration officers upon re-entry gave "suggested" he get a new card because It is scannable and less work for them. However not required. We have actually called Immigration and they told him he does not need to get one because it was issued prior to 1989 And if and when it's required they would contact him.

 

As of 11/14/2011 US customs and border website confirms this. Green Cards issued between 1979 and August 1989 That do not have expiration dates DO NOT need to be renewed at this time. I'd post the link but am at work and can only post on message boards from my phone

[macrc]

I know people who have lived here for many years. They have green cards but also have passports from their country of birth which they cruise with. They don't have any problem.

[seaofwonder]

I'm a Canadian with a green card, but a newer one.

 

I've never heard of these "certifications" that people are mentioning. What is this and where do I find more information?

 

I travel out of the country several times a year (Canada & Europe, as well as cruises) and have never had a problem coming back into the US (or leaving). I've never been told I need a 'certification' either.

[megacruisa]

Hello Everyone,

It would seem that the problem is not the non-expiring green card which is still valid for travel, but that they did not have a passport. I always thought both were required for travel overseas.

Also, during the online check-in process for non-expiring green cards all you do is imput the greatest dates on the drop down date menu. this we were advised by RC some time ago.

Good luck to all.

[BillOh]

My husband has the green card with no expiration date. Just cruised on Explorer and had no issue at all. There could be something more to this story. I too read the RCCL "recommendation" and even called them and Immigration prior to sailing because I'd heard of issues like this before. RCCL said its Immigrations rules not theres, so we called Immigration, they confirmed he was fine to travel.

 

It "could" be someone is in violation of their green card rules. DUI charges with a green card holder are major issues.. you cannot travel with a charge like that, you will be detained upon re-entry. You cannot travel to Canada at all. I'm just throwing it out there, you never know what sort of secrets people have.

 

Oh and there are in fact certifications required depending on the country of citizenship and the ports of call

 

I'm only reading this thread out of curiousity, and found your post full of probable good thoughts. However, in my mind I don't trust my own government's ability to communicate information, the same way I don't trust a lot of Customer Service groups either. (not a political conspiracy nut) But given your extensive cruise history, is your husband planning on changing his green card, assuming you plan to cruise again? Again taking you at your word, I'd hate to see your vacation ruined by one agents interpretations.

[MikeNJ1109]

The "highly suggested" has been on Royals web site for years, I know when my wife was going through the citizenship proccess, 2001,I belonged to an Immigration board similar to this one, and there was a lot of reports on there of people coming back into the US with the old style green card, and being admitted, but at the same time being told, it would be the last time they would be admitted and they needed to apply for a new green card, with photo and expiration.

 

 

 

There is no benefit not to apply for citizenship, for some people it is just the expense, and for those with unexpiring green cards there was no need.

 

When my green card expired it was a lot cheaper to apply for citizenship than to renew the green card, and, for me, being a USC and a UK citizen, gives me 2 governments behind me should something bad happen abroad

 

My wife is a German citizen with a valid US Green Card (with an expiration date). She has been told by her government that if she applied for US citizenship, she would have to renounce her German citizenship and also renounce her claim to the German version of Social Security ... in addition our daughter would then no longer be able to claim German / EU citizenship (she is a Dual US / German citizen now, with a right to live and work in both countries).

 

As such, unless her Government in Berlin decides to make an exception, and allow her to maintain her German citizenship, she will continue to maintain her current status with a US green card.

 

Michael

[MikeNJ1109]

I'm a Canadian with a green card, but a newer one.

 

I've never heard of these "certifications" that people are mentioning. What is this and where do I find more information?

 

I travel out of the country several times a year (Canada & Europe, as well as cruises) and have never had a problem coming back into the US (or leaving). I've never been told I need a 'certification' either.

 

We travel frequently between the US and Europe to visit my wife's family, and have never had an issue using my wife's US green card ... and would want some more specifics regarding this "Certification" that is being mentioned. Does anyone have a link from either the State Department or DHS regarding this?

 

Michael and Silke

[Icruzthere4Iam]

I do not understand how the Customs officer enforced a "policy" that he does not even have a copy of? If he can't see the "policy" in black and white, or on a computer screen how does he have any idea what the "policy" is. It would be like returning from a trip and being told "you can't bring that item into the country. We have a new policy." "Can I see the policy?" "No, it's not in the computer or printed but it's the policy." Something does not make sense about that. Just my immediate reaction to this.

 

Sorry your friend got hosed and I hope he can get a better explanation of things. Take care, Jim