Costa Concordia SINKING

[bigwalt0176]

As long as a company or individual stands up to the truth and responsibility in the end and doesn't twist, lie, or push it under the carpet, then they can earn my respect.

 

The truth will come out during the Italian investigation. Lets not forget that the Captain was arrested only because there were deaths, not because of any other information as far as I know. This is SOP.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Peterhof - where on earth in that post did Despegue say/suggest/imply that human error was not involved? He didn't. His post to me is quite clear. He is reiterating that 'FOREIGN' :rolleyes: ships are subject to stringent regulations too, in response to the racist, ridiculous and outrageous statement made earlier by Deck Officer.

To me the post is quite clear. And is very clear indeed on one thing - let the relevant authorities come to their conclusions, which may well be that this whole tragedy was as a result of human error. Or there may be more to it than we are aware just yet.

 

I am sorry, but at no point did Deck Officer bring up race. Perhaps you are attributing to him things that OTHERS read into his posts. I just re-read every one of his posts on this forum and I think you owe him an apology.

[BalconyBumz]

There's talk that this won't hurt the industry much. I tend to disagree. If any of the major media outlets actually go through and do stories on the safety in the industry and the fact that most of the crews make next to nothing.....this isn't airliners with highly paid stewardesses and flight crews. This is people making a few thousand a year working unbearable hours.

 

JMHO, the aftermath if this is proven to be gross negligence will be bad for the industry.

 

The Titanic sunk in addition to several other things happening on cruise ships or with cruise ships over the years, but is it really any different with anything else? Flying? People still fly. Car wrecks? People still drive and ride in cars. Horses? People still get back up and ride again. Accidents/tragedies happen in every walk and activity of life. This isn't going to take the cruise industry down by any means. It's not like this stuff happens every day.

[BalconyBumz]

We also cannot hold one possible "bad apple" responsible for an entire industry and other cruises, cruise lines, and Captains.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

You aren't even a cruiser, as you yourself have indicated. WHY ARE YOU HERE? This is a CRUISE SHIP PAX website. You have done nothing but belittle everyone here for their lack of industry knowhow such as you claim to have, despite you having been proven wrong on numerous occasions, and all you want to do is spew racist bigotry and hate about those who just went through one of the most terrifying experiences of their lives IF they even managed to get out, as we have learned some did not. If you are going to continue to disrespect the crew of this ship (WHO AIDED IN THE SAFE REMOVAL OF OVER 4000 PAX, I MAY ADD) based solely on their race, PLEASE LEAVE. You are not a cruiser, not qualified to make the accusations you have and none of us want to hear your racist comments. Go talk to your buddies on the other website you were trying to advertize and leave us alone.

 

Excuse me M'aam.. but this forum is about cruising and he has as much right as you to be here. I just found this thread today and went back to the beginning and read from page 1 before posting. I do not know what your problem is, but Deck Officer has as much right to offer opinions as anyone else. I have read enough of yours to know that you have read into things that others have written, that they did not write. I find your attacks and personal insults to be more of a violation of Cruise Critic rules, then Deck Officer's ideas about what may or may not have happened here. There have been no advertisements, yet you keep claiming such things. I believe you need to return to civil discourse or find yourself reported to Cruise Critic. Shocking.

[morriscats]

Come on stop all this bickering. The guys seems to be offering rational comments. If you dont like what you see just move on. Adds nothing to the experinence.

 

Absolutely agree.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

We saw that on German TV here... we felt so bad for them.

[ObscureAllure]

There's talk that this won't hurt the industry much. I tend to disagree. If any of the major media outlets actually go through and do stories on the safety in the industry and the fact that most of the crews make next to nothing.....this isn't airliners with highly paid stewardesses and flight crews. This is people making a few thousand a year working unbearable hours.

 

JMHO, the aftermath if this is proven to be gross negligence will be bad for the industry.

 

 

A week and a half ago, a buss boy on the Conquest who told me he started only 2 months before told me that he made $1200 take home every two weeks for a 50hr work week, and didn't have to pay for room/board or food while on board the ship... I'm not sure where you heard they are making only "a few thousand dollars" a year but if my math adds up correctly, that's a decent wage for a buss boy. Hell, the buss boys here in New Orleans don't make half that and still have to pay for their own room/food.

[Love.II.Cruise]

Has nothing to do with any Insurance act, you just take out a policy to protect your future earnings. Lloyds will insure anything that you are willing to pay the premiums for.

 

True.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

On the other hand, if you proceeded to the muster station naked, it is doubtful you could be ignored by crew members or crowded out by fellow passengers. :D

 

Praying for a safe return home for all those involved.

 

That is really funny!! I wonder if that is why my partner always sleeps naked?

[Isklaar]

I am sorry, but at no point did Deck Officer bring up race. Perhaps you are attributing to him things that OTHERS read into his posts. I just re-read every one of his posts on this forum and I think you owe him an apology.

 

Thanks for your input, but no apology will be forthcoming. I was not the only person to find his outrageous last sentence on his initial post to be offensive. I never called into question his professional qualifications or opinions, just that final statement which as I said others also found offensive.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one :D

 

Edited to add - You appear to imply that I'm jumping on some sort of bandwagon here. If you read the whole thread, as you say you did, you will see that I said I found the comments offensive almost 24 hours ago - I was one of the first to comment on it. So I do hope that you're not suggesting that I'm some sort of sheep .

[ObscureAllure]

Come on stop all this bickering. The guys seems to be offering rational comments. If you dont like what you see just move on. Adds nothing to the experinence.

The guy has been making personal comments at me since I first called him out for saying that this happened because the crew was Italian and not American. I haven't been bickering with him if you'd read back, in fact I've been mostly ignoring him. I only responded then because he AGAIN brought my name up in his pettiness even though I haven't replied to him since yesterday and then AGAIN said that the ship sank because they were non-americans. What about that is rational?

[bigwalt0176]

Excuse me M'aam.. but this forum is about cruising and he has as much right as you to be here. I just found this thread today and went back to the beginning and read from page 1 before posting. I do not know what your problem is, but Deck Officer has as much right to offer opinions as anyone else. I have read enough of yours to know that you have read into things that others have written, that they did not write. I find your attacks and personal insults to be more of a violation of Cruise Critic rules, then Deck Officer's ideas about what may or may not have happened here. There have been no advertisements, yet you keep claiming such things. I believe you need to return to civil discourse or find yourself reported to Cruise Critic. Shocking.

 

I agree. Deck Officer provides a technical and qualified opinion based on his experience and training as far as we can believe his credentials which at this point I do not doubt.

[cubella59]

Agreed. I saw the officers several times in bars and restaurants but never saw them drunk and always saw them nurse their drinks.

 

I also posted this on another thread where someone posted the Capt was seen with a lady on his arm at one of the bars right before the incident. I am not defending him, but speculation is running rampant and sometimes there are simple explanations for things.

 

I can't speak to whether the reports in this article are true and whom the Capt was seen with. However I can speak with absolute certainty to the fact that the Capt's wife and daughter boarded the Concordia on Dec 27 in Civi. The Capt's wife is a strikingly beautful Italian woman (as is his daughter for that matter). We met the wife and daughter in our private dining room where he was dining with them. It was the first time he had seen them in four months and he was going to disembark with them in the near future (he works 4 months on, 2 months off). It was also not unusual to see the Capt drink, let's remember folks he hosts several passenger gala nights where he is at his table with his officers and wine flows at these dinners. We had dinner with the Capt the night before his wife and daughter boarded and I can say with certainty that he had two glasses of wine and when our server offered to reflill his glass, he declined. He was also constantly being called on his cell from the bridge.

 

If his daugher and wife were still on board when this tragedy occured, it may explain why he supposedly left before all passengers and crew were off. Not that it's an excuse, he certainly could have made sure his wife and daughter were in a lifeboat and off the ship safely, but who knows what runs through one's mind when you believe your family is in danger. The man being portayed in the media as a reckless coward, was not the man I thought I met. I'm really struggling with the dichotomy, Just food for thought.

 

 

 

 

 

So the crew who live on the ship for six months at a time shouldn't do anything other than be "on call" during that time? They shouldn't have a glass of wine with dinner, or stop and watch a show when off duty? Many of them travel with their wives, I've seen it myself, so they shouldn't be allowed to dine with their wife when off duty? This is ridiculous.

 

That's why there are SHIFTS of people. So that everyone on board doesn't work 24/7 (which while would be just plan mean in the first place, it's also completely impossible because working that much with no breaks would make him unable to perform his job due to sheer exhaustion.

[ObscureAllure]

Excuse me M'aam.. but this forum is about cruising and he has as much right as you to be here. I just found this thread today and went back to the beginning and read from page 1 before posting. I do not know what your problem is, but Deck Officer has as much right to offer opinions as anyone else. I have read enough of yours to know that you have read into things that others have written, that they did not write. I find your attacks and personal insults to be more of a violation of Cruise Critic rules, then Deck Officer's ideas about what may or may not have happened here. There have been no advertisements, yet you keep claiming such things. I believe you need to return to civil discourse or find yourself reported to Cruise Critic. Shocking.

 

 

How is it possible you've read the thread when you post something such as this. Multiple people have sen his comments and accusations and personal comments, not just myself, and have commented on it. And I have not "kept claiming" anything regarding advertisements, that's the first time I've mentioned it. Again, perhaps you should reread the thread and correct your information before making such accusations. Thank you! :)

 

Seriously, I think the Costa Concordia, it's passengers, and those still missing and or possible dead are more important than this back and forth bickering. Let's stick to the important things, please?

 

-------------- (This is me removing myself from this drama)

 

They are reorting that there are definately voices being heard still on board and the workers are working to find them. I am having trouble following the Italien tweets, but it seems like they haven't found them, yet.

[Activated95b]

So? They're not all on watch 24/7. Officers and crew who were off duty could have been rolling around naked in jelly if they felt that way inclined, as long as they were compos mentis by the time they were on watch again.

 

Every cruise I have been on the captain made a point of stating that he was drinking his toasts with fruit juice as he was on duty 24/7.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

From a purely economic point of view, and not to diminish the pain, suffering or deaths that have occurred, unless this was a willful act - Costa will be made whole monetarily except for whatever insurance deductible they have which is probably in the range of $1 to $10MM.

 

On the other hand, just like post 9/11 when people refused to fly, the industry as a whole will see reduced bookings and a reduction/elimination in profits. I would suspect we will see less profitable ships being taken out of service and over the next year or two some turmoil in the industry overall.

 

Carnival and RCI stock will take a pounding on Tuesday but on the bright side, if you can consider it to be one, cruise fares may decrease over the next year as the industry tries to fill up ships.

 

I was thinking that very thing. My first reaction was... this is IT for Costa.

 

They have a big struggle in front of them. First and foremost, regardless of what the facts will eventually show, people now have a very, very negative image of Costa that no PR will be able to overcome. Even people who love Costa (I find their ships to be gorgeous) will think twice about booking in the future - not as a blame thing necessarily - it's just human nature to subconsciously avoid things that are negative - this holds true even more so for vacation choices. How many people stayed away from Thailand after the Tsunami in 2004, even though rational thought says it could not happen again. It's just human nature.

 

Wether that captain was/is to blame will not be the question when people are also balancing the reports they heard from passengers from all nations on board that the communication and evacuation was not done correctly and that panic was worsened by these actions.

 

I feel sorry for the many people at Costa who do their jobs faithfully every day. It is often not the little guy who makes bad decisions, but it is very often the case that the little guy pays the price.

 

As for monetary damages... I think we will also see the passengers will eat a large chunk of their losses. Look at any passenger contract, there is a cap on what you will recover in the case of loss. Anyone ever lost a bag during a flight? Same concept.

 

Financially, this is not a welcome thing for Italy either. Cruising is a huge part of their tourism revenue. Sad all around.

[Thoie]

I am sorry, but at no point did Deck Officer bring up race. Perhaps you are attributing to him things that OTHERS read into his posts. I just re-read every one of his posts on this forum and I think you owe him an apology.

 

This is the bit that got everyone's knickers in a twist:

There are NO major cruise lines that operate under the US flag. This is a cost saving measure because both safety and crewing requirements are more expensive to the cruise company.

 

...

 

but you could rest assured that a US flagged vessel would not have had this accident in the first place, and if it did, there would be an orderly abandon ship, conducted at the highest professional standards.

 

I was disgusted when I read it. The implication was that any vessel without a US flag is some kind of 3rd world leaky bucket where no-one gives a damn about safety and the crew are incapable of managing a crisis. I found it highly insulting to any line or crew registered outside the US.

 

He backtracked later to clarify that was not what was meant, but it's certainly how I read it initially, and I obviously wasn't alone given the reactions from others.

[Tiffany's mom]

You aren't even a cruiser, as you yourself have indicated. WHY ARE YOU HERE? This is a CRUISE SHIP PAX website. You have done nothing but belittle everyone here for their lack of industry knowhow such as you claim to have, despite you having been proven wrong on numerous occasions, and all you want to do is spew racist bigotry and hate about those who just went through one of the most terrifying experiences of their lives IF they even managed to get out, as we have learned some did not. If you are going to continue to disrespect the crew of this ship (WHO AIDED IN THE SAFE REMOVAL OF OVER 4000 PAX, I MAY ADD) based solely on their race, PLEASE LEAVE. You are not a cruiser, not qualified to make the accusations you have and none of us want to hear your racist comments. Go talk to your buddies on the other website you were trying to advertize and leave us alone.

 

You are also not much of a cruiser. 3 cruise does not give you much cruise experince. I also notice that you only had 3 post before this board. I think you need more cruise experience before you act like you know a lot about cruising.

[Hunwolf]

If it is deemed a criminal act, Costa may have issues recovering from the insurers.

[nycruiser80]

In reference to the lifeboats "swinging down" to the deck below to board passengers, I WAS TOTALLY WRONG. I'm sorry. Sometimes my cruising experience plays games with my memory and my ego.:D I APOLOGIZE. I can now picture standing in muster on the SPLENDOR looking DIRECTLY at the lifeboats.

 

I had to be thinking of the SPIRIT class ships (have been on all four) where the lifeboats are stowed just outside the "french door cabins" with no balcony, directly above the embarkation deck. Then they swing down to the embarkation deck below where the passengers board them.

 

I detest misinformation being posted on cruisethreads and I've been guilty of it. I'm so very sorry. :o

 

 

No worries! After awhile cruises begin to mesh with one another! It happens to me.

[Activated95b]

I agree that the dead and injured and missing take priority.

 

But given the little to no help Costa is giving survivors of the incident, I cannot be surprised at how they are treating other customers affected.

 

I would blame the Italian EMS system. The crew of the ship were victims just like the passengers and would be disorientated themselves once reaching shore. This is where the local government has to be able to activate an EOC (Emergency Operations Center) and take over for accounting for people. Once the representatives from Costa get there the EOC should be able to provide them with rosters. (And in fact the EOC should have been on the phone with Costa first thing asking for a manifest.)

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Reading the various posts about the crew maybe not being as prepared as they should have been has made me wonder how long the majority of crew had been on board. If it's true as passengers have said they are not doing frequent enough life boat drills for the passengers how often were the crew participating in their drills? It seems like there are some policies and procedures that need to be examined at the very least.

 

One thing to keep in mind Julie, is that cruise ship crews are on constant rotation. People come and go all the time. They come from other ships, they come from being home after contract, and new people come. On any cruise ship in any line you have this rotation.

 

There is, or should be, constant training with crews - regardless of where the ship is registered, any of the major cruise lines take this very seriously. I would not venture to speak for Costa, but there is a phenomena occurring in the industry at the moment, partly due to the increase in these huge mega ships, but there is such a demand for cruise ship staff that many of the staffing agencies can't keep up and experienced crew is getting thinner and thinner throughout the cruise lines as more and bigger ships are introduced.

 

In my opinion, and it is just opinion, it is highly possible that the ratio of experienced crew to new crew, to crew that has only been on board for a month or so is getting stretched to the point where an emergency of this magnitude produced problems.

 

One report I heard on German TV, was that a large portion of the staff could not speak Italian, German or French (just their own language and English) and that also hindered some of the communication. That is media speculation and the speculation of one of the interviewed Germans. I was not there.

[Hunwolf]

You are also not much of a cruiser. 3 cruise does not give you much cruise experince. I also notice that you only had 3 post before this board. I think you need more cruise experience before you act like you know a lot about cruising.

 

Do you need 50 cruises to know enough? What about one on the Achille Lauro? What about watching Titanic "eleventy" times?

 

Does that make you Diamond shipwreck preferred?

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

We do have a recent modern day example/role model of this and what the Captain should do. In 2009 Captain Chesley Sullenberger was the last person off of the sinking airliner he successfully landed in the Hudson River.

 

Unless this captain was forced off of the ship by the police or military, it seems deeply unethical and immoral for the captain to leave the ship while the passengers and crew. All persons on that ship were 100% in his care for the duration of time that they were on the ship. All of these people had to be terrified that the ship could go out from under them as they waited their turn to be rescued. And-he-left-them-alone.

 

I agree with an earlier poster... we need a LIKE button!