Costa Concordia SINKING

[jveevers]

So USA Today has the following that shows the ship "threading the needle" between the two outcroppings:

 

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/story/2012-01-16/Vacationing-couple-plunged-into-chaos/52602722/1

 

If you click on the box you see the track that goes through the rocks and identifies the source as 'Turkish Maritime News website www.denizhaber.com.

 

Click on that site and find the course and that site identifies it as:

 

http://www.deniztv.com/HABER/27965/1/costa-concordia-squat.html

 

USA Today publishes a story citing another source that doesn't even back up what they allege!!

 

The reporting of this by CNN, ABC, USA Today has been the sloppiest I have ever seen.

 

Don't give these "news" sources any more credibility than you give the armchair "experts" on CC.

 

The distance between those rocks is around 230 feet (measured on Googleearth ). Costa Concordia has a beam of 125 feet (at widest, tapers to less). So thats 47.5 foot on each side clearance. Thats the length of 3 cars each side.

[USNUZULOOSE]

I am curious as to why the first officer ( not sure if that is correct ) the other man arressted has not said a word. Or has he? I am interested as to what he has to say. Does anyone know?

[jveevers]

The distance between those rocks is around 230 feet (measured on Googleearth ). Costa Concordia has a beam of 125 feet (at widest, tapers to less). So thats 47.5 foot on each side clearance. Thats the length of 3 cars each side.

 

The second link shows the path passing to the right of the rocks.

Again, which is factual?

[SomeBeach]

It appears that the ship has listed, are there rocks under it - could it sink more???? Certainly it's posiition will lend itself to salvaging peoples belongings. Costa has quite the mess on it's hands.

 

By Nick Squires

6:30AM GMT 17 Jan 2012

 

The Italian government declared a state of emergency amid fears that the vessel could slide off a rock ledge and fall 300ft to the seabed, spilling half a million gallons of fuel into a pristine area of the Mediterranean.

 

The 1,000ft ship, which wedged on a rock shelf yards off the island of Giglio, began to shift yesterday as it was buffeted by waves. At one point it slipped by 9cm, temporarily forcing the suspension of the rescue effort.

 

Italy’s environment minister said liquid had started leaking from the ship but it was not clear if it was fuel. He said protective barriers were being put in place.

 

The weather is expected to deteriorate in coming days. With 25mph winds forecast for Thursday, there are fears that the ship could be dislodged, with the danger of its fuel tanks rupturing and polluting the Tuscan archipelago of islands, one of Europe’s biggest marine national parks.

[degarr]

Francesco Schettino, the captain of the Costa Concordia said he never wanted to face a “Titanic scenario” in an interview a year ago that has come back to haunt him.

 

Schettino told a Czech newspaper in December 2010 that, as the skipper of luxury cruise ships in the Mediterranean, he enjoyed “diverging from standard procedures”. “I enjoy moments when something unpredictable happens, when you can diverge a bit from standard procedures,” he said. “It’s a challenge to face, I enjoy it.”

 

The 52 year-old told a reporter from the daily Dnes newspaper, who was on a cruise with him: “I wouldn’t like to be in the role of the captain of the Titanic, having to sail in an ocean of icebergs.”

 

The captain, who is under investigation for abandoning his ship before all the passengers and crew had escaped, appeared at times complacent over the challenges of commanding a large vessel. “These days, everything is much safer,” he said. “It is easier to navigate thanks to modern technical instruments and the internet.”

 

When asked what impact the sinking of the Titanic in 1912 had on people’s perceptions of ship safety at the time, he said: “Luckily, people quickly forget tragedies.”

 

Making an error was not as serious as a century ago. “It’s not fatal because we are much better prepared than in the past in terms of handling possible emergencies and complications,” he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9019125/Cruise-disaster-The-Titanic-Its-all-so-much-safer-now-said-Concordia-skipper.html

[SomeBeach]

degarr, just read the entire article. Ouch!

Went on to look at some underwater pix they had.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9017702/Cruise-ship-disaster-underwater-pictures-of-the-Costa-Concordia-wreckage.html

 

To the right you can advance pix.

[greenman1168]

ROME (AFP)--Rescuers found a body in the wreckage of the luxury liner Costa Concordia early Tuesday, bringing to seven the death toll after it ran aground off the coast of Italy, daily La Stampa said on its website.

The body hadn't yet been recovered, the report said, quoting rescue workers. A further 28 people remained missing, La Stampa said.

 

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120117-700122.html

 

 

Clicking on this link, you can't read the article unless you pay to subscribe to the source.

[degarr]

Clicking on this link, you can't read the article unless you pay to subscribe to the source.

 

Sorry seemed to be OK for me

[greenman1168]

Well, it's the Wall Street Journal, they give nothing away for free. Maybe you are already subscribed or they give Aussies a break...very sad to note, however, that this is another deceased. RIP.

[Mercury]

I guess I have to chime in, being in the insurance industry for 25 years.

The insurance company would be hard pressed NOT to honor a personal injury claim. The parties involved that were victims of this loss are not to blame for the captains error. The last thing the insurance company (and subsequent re-insurers) want is bad press because of that.

The people that are innocent will be paid. Either by the company (in the form of a free cruise or compensation, or both). The loss of life will have to be adjusted separately based on the income level among other factors.

The property damage may be in question by the exclusion you speak of. I have noted this in previous posts.

If there was criminal intent, then the insurer has every right to deny a claim. Upon further thought on this however, the captain's charges were not directly related to a criminal effect on the ship itself, but rather a poor judgement call for sailing too close to an island, and leaving the ship when he was supposed to stay. The insurer (and re-insurers) would also be hard pressed to deny a claim on this basis as Insurance companies do insure stupidity. (I have lots of claims examples on this if you want).

If the Insurance company did not insure for "accidents" then the guy that left his spring tires on this morning in the -29c cold and blowing snow weather that hit the other guy would be at a loss for a claim. We insure him too for whatever coverage he holds.

This wasn't really an "accident" but can be spun that way as the captain did not turn the ship to intentionally hit a rock. He was merely exercising bad judgement.

 

Sorry to get so wordy, but had to chime in my two cents.

 

Remember these ships are insured with at least 4-5 insurance companies (re-insurers) and given the loss ratio of cruise ships is very low, there may be a substantial payout in the end by the insurer's either way you slice it.

 

Insurance companies also don't get involved in civil suits, which I suspect there will be a few of (especially the loss of life involved).

 

this was a sad day all around for everyone involved.

 

Thanks for your interesting input.

 

I have seen many posts stating that Costa would've been aware of the course the ship was taking and also that this was not the first time that a captain had sailed close to Giglio to salute certain residents. Would this not then mean that negligence could be proven on the part of Costa and meaning that the insurers would have good cause not to pay out?

[degarr]

Well, it's the Wall Street Journal, they give nothing away for free. Maybe you are already subscribed or they give Aussies a break...very sad to note, however, that this is another deceased. RIP.

 

Must be due to Australian IP address, I can hardly get the paper edition delivered.

[guernseyguy]

La Repubblica is reporting that:

 

Impact occurred at 21.42

Evacuation began at 22.58

 

Obvious question, why did it take over an hour and a quarter to order the evacuation?

 

Also a breakdown of the missing shows:

 

Germany: 10

France: 4

USA: 2

Peru: 1

 

It appears that the remaining missing are Italian.

[SouthernCalCruiseGuy]

Some nice LARGE photos to view…

16 January 2012

Cruise Ship Costa Concordia Grounding Photos

http://cryptome.org/2012-info/costa-concordia/0041.htm

 

 

[FinlandGuy]

The Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet shows a live cam from Giglio island:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14222867.ab

[shipfriend_max]

http://cnd-cruiseblogger.blogspot.com/2012/01/costa-concordia-evacuated.html

 

Here is also a report - what a pit that there are missing more people than expected :mad:

Here is also confirmed that the ship will be out of service until Nov 30, 2011, or even longer, and according the t-online news, the recovery of the ship will take months...

 

http://nachrichten.t-online.de/costa-concordia-sieben-tote-und-29-vermisste-nach-kreuzfahrtunglueck/id_53226466/index

 

http://translate.google.de/#de|en|Die%20Bergung%20des%20Wracks%20wird%20nach%20Einsch%C3%A4tzung%20von%20Hans%20Hopman%2C%20Professor%20f%C3%BCr%20Schiffsbau%20an%20der%20Technischen%20Universit%C3%A4t%20Delft%2C%20m%C3%B6glicherweise%20Monate%20dauern

 

I nearly always watch the news to get the latest information...

[middlehaitch]

I've read all the posts.....so please read this as news paper reporting when looking for veracity.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9019688/Cruise-disaster-Italian-navy-blasts-holes-in-Costa-Concordia.html

 

"Three loud blasts rang out around the tiny island of Giglio, where the 114,000 tonne luxury liner is resting on its side in about 45ft of water, just outside the island's tiny harbour.

Navy specialists in inflatable boats set the charges against the hull, ripping open gaps through which divers will be able to enter the bowels of the vessel.

 

Authorities on Tuesday night almost doubled the estimate of the number of passengers and crew still missing, from 16 to 29, after German authorities said that checks had shown 10 of their citizens were still missing.

 

Hope that anyone could have survived inside the ship since it ran aground on Friday night is fading."

[Milaandra]

That person is seriously tempting fate, IMO.

 

Not enough to walk away from something like that? Got to make a buck, too? Wow.

 

Since the item has been removed, I'm burning with curiosity. What was it?

[FinlandGuy]

Seems to be off now.

The Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet shows a live cam from Giglio island:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14222867.ab

[cdamion]

Since the item has been removed, I'm burning with curiosity. What was it?

 

Sea passes from the fated trip.

[Despegue]

The maritime World is mostly running behind the safety enhancements in aviation. Only since around 1996, the first Bridge simulators were introduced, and it is only recently that Deck officers need to undergo recurrent training on it. Checklists are only recently introduced and still not used on some ships ( Merchant navy)

 

BRM (Bridge Resource Management) is still in its infancy compared with the Aviation CRM (Crew Resource management) although basically the same and taught by the same people.

 

Evacuation training and procedures is now something that the IMO under SOLAS will look into and I can guarantee changes.

 

let me conclude with a definition of Safety:

 

Safety is a CONDITION of RELATIVE absence of danger.

 

Danger is the presence of significant RISK.

 

We can not eliminiate risk, but we we can manage it forsee it and evaluate it. An ACCEPTABLE risk factor does not cause danger thus the safety condition is not compromised.

 

In this case, the shoals near Giglio was a risk. This risk seems not to have been managed and evaluated correctly by the Deck officers on duty onboard Concordia thus resulting in a potential danger. As a result, the Safety condition of Concordia was compromised.

 

As you can see, Safety is ALWAYS a fluid thing that can change with the minute. it is how we manage the risk that defines our safety level.

[peterv]

I missed that video when it was posted earlier! There is also a longer version, really makes me shudder to think what these people went through.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE&feature=related

 

Edit to add: It also shows how high the ship was in the water initially and how it has really receded. The view of the bow really shows the difference dramatically.

 

I would think that the reason for that is that at the time of the video, the bow section had not yet completely filled with water so the bow was still buoyant and was not resting on the bottom. It would take some time for water to infiltrate all the sealed areas as it crept through ventilation ducts etc. After all it is watertight when on an even keel, but not at all when lying on its side.

[Irish1978]

The recovery of a seventh body has not been confirmed but they have increased the number unaccounted for to 29 - how it manages to keep fluctuating must be awful for the families of those unaccounted for and there are now reports that the passenger manifest was not completed correctly.

 

For accurate coverage try Sky News - they have a reporter in the island also...

 

http://news.sky.com/home

[Milaandra]

La Repubblica is reporting that:

 

Impact occurred at 21.42

Evacuation began at 22.58

 

Obvious question, why did it take over an hour and a quarter to order the evacuation?

 

First off, it would take some time to evaluate the damage. I was reading about the Andrea Doria last night. They were t-boned by another ship which penetrated by something like 40 feet. It still took 30 minutes to assess the damage and call for the abandon ship.

 

If I were to speculate, I would assume that the extra delay was to allow time to deliberately ground the ship. You can't launch lifeboats and try to bring her in to a shallow port at the same time.

 

Again, speculation, but I assume the announcements that there was a technical difficulty only were to avoid widespread panic. If there was a delay in sending out a mayday message (and we have heard different accounts about that) then here's where my imagination runs completely wild. We know the decision to run the ship aground was against company policy. Is it possible that the captain didn't want anyone to know what he was doing so his plan couldn't be countermanded by head office?

 

At this point, everything is pure speculation. The news reports are contradictory, and we haven't heard from any witness who was in a position of authority on that ship.

 

It's possible that the captain really was an incompetant hotdog, who endangered and lost the lives under his command and did everything wrong, including making it very difficult to salvage the wreckage.

 

It's also possible that the initial impact was out of the captain's control, and by making the tough decision to act against corporate policy he saved lives.

 

Only time will tell whether it is one, the other, or a combination of the two.

 

The only thing I can't really see is why they didn't calmly have people prepare and go to their muster stations. They could have said it was just maritime policy and nothing to worry about.

[atush]

Airlines stopped having highly paid "stewardesses" and flight crews about 20 years ago when the commercial airline industry decided that overcompensating CEOs, outsourcing maintenance, and watering down safety regulations did a magic number on the bottom line; something that the cruise industry does very well with flags of convenience, anti-labor employment practices, and sweatshop working conditions that no American would put up half a day with. If there indeed are hidden safety lapses and sweeping safety under the rug going on, then by all means we need the media to pry open the lid of secrecy.

 

There is another problem with flags of convenience esp ones like panama and the Bahamas. Remember not so long ago the missing/murdered young british woman working as a kids councillor on the Disney ship (Dream I think). She went missing under extremely suspicious circumstances and there is no way she fell overboard. But the Bahamian police (instead of the FBI) are in charge of the case as that is the ships' reg, and it is and will go nowhere and no one will ever be held accountable and her parents will never know what happened to her.

 

At least the italian authorities seem to be getting a hold on this investigation, but I would like to see US authorities in charge of all investigations on ships that have the US as the embarkation point regardless of where they are registered.

[guernseyguy]

If I were to speculate, I would assume that the extra delay was to allow time to deliberately ground the ship. You can't launch lifeboats and try to bring her in to a shallow port at the same time.

 

A perfectly reasonable hypothesis which will be either supported or undermined by the detailed ship's track data (when did it reach its final position?) - although after such catastrophic damage I'm not sure how much power or manoeuvring control the captain will have had - whatever the motive, there does not seem to have been much leadership from the top - with reports in today's Italian press of the crew taking the initiative and launching lifeboats before they were formally told to do so.