Muster Drill

[jmcdon7230]

This amateur video from the Guardian website shows a rather chaotic boarding of a lifeboat on the Concordia. The crew does not look like they are in control. The crowd talks over the English announcement, then becomes quiet when the announcement is made in Italian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/jan/16/costa-concordia-passengers-evacuated-lifeboats-video?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Edited January 16, 2012 by jmcdon7230

[Medtech2]

This amateur video from the Guardian website shows a rather chaotic boarding of a lifeboat on the Concordia. The crew does not look like they are in control. The crowd talks over the English announcement, then becomes quiet when the announcement is made in Italian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/jan/16/costa-concordia-passengers-evacuated-lifeboats-video?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

To me, this did not seem chaotic. It just seemed crowded. There was no screaming or stampeding. I can understand why the passengers were not quiet for the English instructions--they didn't speak English so it did not pertain to them personally and they were not exactly thinking calmly "gee, I should be quiet for my fellow English speaking guests." When it was in a language they understood, they listened.

 

I would also like to mention, for those who have not been on the Epic, that the muster stations in the casino area are there for a reason. It is to try to maintain some semblance of order and even out the masses of people in an emergency. Our names were checked off, instructions were given, and I was told that we would be led to MIDSHIP stairs (the ones the crew uses) to get to our lifeboats. At the time they did not actually show us these stairs or proceed to the lifeboats.

 

NCL, if you read this, I for one think the drill should go so far as to continue on to those stairs and then the lifeboats. I asked to do this at my muster and was told no, but I think this would be important to know...

[sjbdtz]

I would also like to mention, for those who have not been on the Epic, that the muster stations in the casino area are there for a reason. It is to try to maintain some semblance of order and even out the masses of people in an emergency. ...

 

 

Also, as those who embarked through the casino can attest..... the casino has one of the ingress/egress points through which you would leave to the lifeboats.

 

So you would go there, and the head to the exit.

[Medtech2]

Also, as those who embarked through the casino can attest..... the casino has one of the ingress/egress points through which you would leave to the lifeboats.

 

So you would go there, and the head to the exit.

That never occurred to me. The crewman at our muster just mentioned stairs and he would lead the way...

[dublell]

Also, as those who embarked through the casino can attest..... the casino has one of the ingress/egress points through which you would leave to the lifeboats.

 

So you would go there, and the head to the exit.

 

I think they've decided that this assembling at a central location and being led to the lifeboats works. I suppose it gets down to whether you'd prefer to head for the lifeboat deck on your own, find your boat, and then have to wait until everyone in your muster group gets there so you can board or leave. I'm guessing they won't leave those final 20-25 people behind and they probably won't want to leave with a half full lifeboat. Or would you rather assemble at a central point, let them count off a boat full of people, maybe from different groups, and lead you out whether or not it's to your "assigned boat" (and I don't think they assign them in advance because on my last few cruises they haven't told me which would be the boat for our group). I'll take the latter approach. I do agree, though, that people (including NCL) need to start taking the muster more seriously.

[Cmdr Cody]

Part of the logic behind different muster locations is to prevent overcrowding at the lifeboat stations UNTIL the boats are ready. There are crewmen assigned to each boat and they are responsible to lower the boat to a loading position. Then the passengers are to get in.

I read a lot of speculation from people on this and that for this thread. How many of you walked down each lifeboat, each location for liferafts and locations for life preservers outside of those your cabin?

I did and will continue to do it when I board a ship. I am also always aware of any emergency exits when I'm in a building, airplane whatever because you don't want to waste time in an emergency.

[Ontario cruise duo]

Without reading what others have already submitted my thoughts are that the muster drills are just an example of what you would do in case of an emergency. No one really knows how effective they would be until that emergency were to happen. Of course, you`d panicked. That`s only natural, especially under the recent circumstances. Some people may have been able to get to their rooms to recover their life perservers, others not. And looking at the ship and the way it has ended up in the waters, were they even able to utilize both sides of the ship for evacuation purposes. I doubt it. Let`s all hope that we never have to experience a real evacuation, but for now I will certainly pay closer attention on our upcoming cruise to our crew staff during the next life boat drill.

[sparks1093]

Part of the logic behind different muster locations is to prevent overcrowding at the lifeboat stations UNTIL the boats are ready. There are crewmen assigned to each boat and they are responsible to lower the boat to a loading position. Then the passengers are to get in.

I read a lot of speculation from people on this and that for this thread. How many of you walked down each lifeboat, each location for liferafts and locations for life preservers outside of those your cabin?

I did and will continue to do it when I board a ship. I am also always aware of any emergency exits when I'm in a building, airplane whatever because you don't want to waste time in an emergency.

 

Navy training dies hard, I do the same things (and even though I have a combination of 1700 flight hours between aircrew and passenger I still pay attention to the briefings and count seats. I remember the helo dunker all too well:eek:).

[chrisrotlmacin]

NCL, if you read this, I for one think the drill should go so far as to continue on to those stairs and then the lifeboats. I asked to do this at my muster and was told no, but I think this would be important to know...

That is not possible for safety reasons.Unless a real emergency situation occurs they will not take passengers in crew areas during drills. The primary escape route is on most of the ships thru the passenger areas because the passengers may be familiar with the way they have to go. Depending on the drill scenario (i think this happened in your case) they will use the secondary escape route that may use a crew staircase. Each crew staircase have in emergency at list 2 crew members on each level that will direct/help you. Also the muster station leader and his assistant know at list the both routes to the boats.

 

I also post the fallowing content in other topic related to Concordia, hopefully same of you will get a better view of what happens from the crew perspective :

 

NCL Sun and Sky have a different emergency plan (most of the passengers know it as "the old way". I was muster station leader on the Sun, we show up how to wear properly the life vest to passengers under the life boats , we count the pax. and we send the board to the bridge.

On NCL Star, Dawn and other ships in the same class have a plan were passengers are mustered in lounges, i was assistant master station leader on the Dawn in the theater. In case of emergency they direct the passengers to the life boats. If you did a drill as passenger on this ships and you went to the boats most probably they did the full drill with the passengers , the full drill is done usually only with crew when they launch the boats, set up a fire drill exercise and more (once we fill up with smoke the casino),usually is done in the ports like Skagway, Roatan,Port Canaveral, etc, a port that permits to launch the life boats .

From my personal point of view NCL had at the time when i was crew a well trained crew, weekly drills and if we did not do it on the requested time we did the full drill every week. The first think that crew learn on board on NCL is how to find 2 ways from your cabin and from your work place to your muster station. You have to fill it in on written to the safety officer, all the new crew go on a ship tour on the first day and in the same time one of the cabin mates show the shortest way up. On the Dawn the crew welfare issued torches for all the crew,on NCL ships same of the crew had all the time maglites on their belts. The veterans learned the rookies to know the ways out with close eyes (in case of smoke), even now i can tell you to way up from my cabins i lived on the NCL ships.Also the NCL alcohol policy for crew is very tough (tougher than most of the cruise lines) over 2 beers you are going home if they test you, no hard alcohol, just beer and whine in the crew bar (other cruise lines allow it).Jade/Dawn/Star class have spare life jackets on forward and aft on boat deck next to the life rafts. I was crew assigned to one of the storage to handle over the life vests and always in full crew drill we had over half of the storage remaining . There is not such think that are not enough life jackets.

 

Also mustering in lounges is better than outside for many reasons. One of them is fire and one side of the ship may not be usable. Mustering passengers in a deck full of smoke may create panic. Depending on the on the evacuation plan Every muster station has a secondary meeting point. If first location like a lounge etc is not available than passengers are directed to secondary point , usually on open decks under the boats. If there is not enough boats for certain reasons (fire etc) there is plenty space on the life rafts, they have in total capacity more than the number of people on board.

------------------------------------------------------------

Same one said on other topic that they will be like fish in can in the muster station inside the ship :) . Also in this topic the mustering in lounges was under question of exit routes. For example the theater in the Dawn class have 2 large exits on deck 7 with wide corridors and also there are 2 crew staircases . Stop making analysis from passengers perspectives if you don't know the entire ship lay out including the crew areas and the full emergency plans (they are approved by U.S.Coast Guard, toughest regulator in the world). If they will have to use crew areas to pass passengers to safety they will do it. As passenger you rarely participate to the full drill, you may go on one ship and they may say to you that you don't need the life jacket and you meet in a lounge and in same ship one week later you will be asked to bring the life jacket, you muster in a lounge and you will be directed under the boats , boats lowered on one side of the ship, fire drills with smoke etc.

 

Also in this topic same one said that NCL slipped with the drills, untrained crew:

Agree that NCL has slipped in t.he safety drills. Just returned from Epic and the two girls conducting drill at station J1 could not put vest on properly and did not demonstrate whistle or light.

I was going to turn them in but hoped supervision was on it or at least one of the 3500 cameras.

 

Each crew receives a safety number based on his position, and mustering is a easy task, and they give it as well to rookies. The experienced crew are part of the fire teams, drive and lower the boats they have additional specialized training. First did you think that the two girls maybe they just been transferred from other ship? Maybe they embark in the same day with you. Same life jackets have different belt release systems. Before you will go in a life boat or life raft shute they will verify your life vest if is properly closed. No, they will not blow the whistle, it is not hygienic, no they will not demonstrate the lights on life vests, it lights in contact with water .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If the entire crew is well trained will do a good job in emergency. If not than the problems appear , in Concordia case according to passengers late decisions were taken that leaded to late abandon ship and panic, and this was a worst case scenario because every think started from the captain, event creation, no immediate mustering, no early evacuation. On Scandinavian Star inability of the crew members to communicate with each other and with passengers was a serious concern and created confusion during the fire fighting and evacuation activities and this resulted in 158 dead . On Star Princess was only one victim and the passenger died after suffering cardiac arrest, and the ship was on fire , that is what is a good training, see picture below of the ship after. It is all about unity of the crew, about the training and about communication.

[kimashton]

When I was on a carnival cruise in 2010 they had us meet in a lounge then we went to our stations.

 

Put then again during an emergency I wouldn't know if I could stay calm.

[wwwfla]

Thank you for the explanations and perspective from a former crew member. Very insightful and enlightening.

 

 

That is not possible for safety reasons.Unless a real emergency situation occurs they will not take passengers in crew areas during drills. The primary escape route is on most of the ships thru the passenger areas because the passengers may be familiar with the way they have to go. Depending on the drill scenario (i think this happened in your case) they will use the secondary escape route that may use a crew staircase. Each crew staircase have in emergency at list 2 crew members on each level that will direct/help you. Also the muster station leader and his assistant know at list the both routes to the boats.

 

I also post the fallowing content in other topic related to Concordia, hopefully same of you will get a better view of what happens from the crew perspective :

 

NCL Sun and Sky have a different emergency plan (most of the passengers know it as "the old way". I was muster station leader on the Sun, we show up how to wear properly the life vest to passengers under the life boats , we count the pax. and we send the board to the bridge.

On NCL Star, Dawn and other ships in the same class have a plan were passengers are mustered in lounges, i was assistant master station leader on the Dawn in the theater. In case of emergency they direct the passengers to the life boats. If you did a drill as passenger on this ships and you went to the boats most probably they did the full drill with the passengers , the full drill is done usually only with crew when they launch the boats, set up a fire drill exercise and more (once we fill up with smoke the casino),usually is done in the ports like Skagway, Roatan,Port Canaveral, etc, a port that permits to launch the life boats .

From my personal point of view NCL had at the time when i was crew a well trained crew, weekly drills and if we did not do it on the requested time we did the full drill every week. The first think that crew learn on board on NCL is how to find 2 ways from your cabin and from your work place to your muster station. You have to fill it in on written to the safety officer, all the new crew go on a ship tour on the first day and in the same time one of the cabin mates show the shortest way up. On the Dawn the crew welfare issued torches for all the crew,on NCL ships same of the crew had all the time maglites on their belts. The veterans learned the rookies to know the ways out with close eyes (in case of smoke), even now i can tell you to way up from my cabins i lived on the NCL ships.Also the NCL alcohol policy for crew is very tough (tougher than most of the cruise lines) over 2 beers you are going home if they test you, no hard alcohol, just beer and whine in the crew bar (other cruise lines allow it).Jade/Dawn/Star class have spare life jackets on forward and aft on boat deck next to the life rafts. I was crew assigned to one of the storage to handle over the life vests and always in full crew drill we had over half of the storage remaining . There is not such think that are not enough life jackets.

 

Also mustering in lounges is better than outside for many reasons. One of them is fire and one side of the ship may not be usable. Mustering passengers in a deck full of smoke may create panic. Depending on the on the evacuation plan Every muster station has a secondary meeting point. If first location like a lounge etc is not available than passengers are directed to secondary point , usually on open decks under the boats. If there is not enough boats for certain reasons (fire etc) there is plenty space on the life rafts, they have in total capacity more than the number of people on board.

------------------------------------------------------------

Same one said on other topic that they will be like fish in can in the muster station inside the ship :) . Also in this topic the mustering in lounges was under question of exit routes. For example the theater in the Dawn class have 2 large exits on deck 7 with wide corridors and also there are 2 crew staircases . Stop making analysis from passengers perspectives if you don't know the entire ship lay out including the crew areas and the full emergency plans (they are approved by U.S.Coast Guard, toughest regulator in the world). If they will have to use crew areas to pass passengers to safety they will do it. As passenger you rarely participate to the full drill, you may go on one ship and they may say to you that you don't need the life jacket and you meet in a lounge and in same ship one week later you will be asked to bring the life jacket, you muster in a lounge and you will be directed under the boats , boats lowered on one side of the ship, fire drills with smoke etc.

 

Also in this topic same one said that NCL slipped with the drills, untrained crew:

 

 

Each crew receives a safety number based on his position, and mustering is a easy task, and they give it as well to rookies. The experienced crew are part of the fire teams, drive and lower the boats they have additional specialized training. First did you think that the two girls maybe they just been transferred from other ship? Maybe they embark in the same day with you. Same life jackets have different belt release systems. Before you will go in a life boat or life raft shute they will verify your life vest if is properly closed. No, they will not blow the whistle, it is not hygienic, no they will not demonstrate the lights on life vests, it lights in contact with water .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If the entire crew is well trained will do a good job in emergency. If not than the problems appear , in Concordia case according to passengers late decisions were taken that leaded to late abandon ship and panic, and this was a worst case scenario because every think started from the captain, event creation, no immediate mustering, no early evacuation. On Scandinavian Star inability of the crew members to communicate with each other and with passengers was a serious concern and created confusion during the fire fighting and evacuation activities and this resulted in 158 dead . On Star Princess was only one victim and the passenger died after suffering cardiac arrest, and the ship was on fire , that is what is a good training, see picture below of the ship after. It is all about unity of the crew, about the training and about communication.

[gooch47]

I've read first-hand accounts of passengers who were on the Star Princess during the fire and they all tell of how well the crew performed and how calm the passengers remained. I think the difference here (the Concordia) was that an evacuation was required. And of course, the delay in issuing the evacuation order.

 

After 51 cruises, we don't intend to stop cruising, but I will NEVER take anyone's word again that I am safe when I don't feel safe. I've been on a ship that had a power blackout. I've been on a ship that was hit by a rogue wave. Each time we were assured everything was OK. I won't believe that again until I prove it to myself.

[che5904]

As much as I appreciate the retired crew member's assuring post and found it quite informative and interesting, that would not stop me from speaking or thinking from a "passenger's perspective", since of course thats what I am.

 

I could never truly and completely trust a stranger (no matter how trained they were suppose to be) for my life and/or safety. If nothing else and provided I didn't panic, if I was in doubt at all I would hope to at least start preparing for what I might do or have to do if my gut was telling me something didn't feel right.

 

This does not stop me from hoping for my next cruise, since the limited amount of accidents in comparison to the trips these ships take is very low. I felt confident in the muster drill that we had on NCL and I do believe there staff are very trained for emergencies.

[sparks1093]

I've read first-hand accounts of passengers who were on the Star Princess during the fire and they all tell of how well the crew performed and how calm the passengers remained. I think the difference here (the Concordia) was that an evacuation was required. And of course, the delay in issuing the evacuation order.

 

After 51 cruises, we don't intend to stop cruising, but I will NEVER take anyone's word again that I am safe when I don't feel safe. I've been on a ship that had a power blackout. I've been on a ship that was hit by a rogue wave. Each time we were assured everything was OK. I won't believe that again until I prove it to myself.

 

What are you going to do, inspect the ship below the waterline to make sure the hull is intact?;) Really though, you have to trust the crew at some point.

[che5904]

What are you going to do, inspect the ship below the waterline to make sure the hull is intact?;) Really though, you have to trust the crew at some point.

 

sparks I think you missed a key point to gooch's post. They said "when they didn't feel safe". I took that to mean the same as my post, that when your gut tells you something just isn't right.

[sparks1093]

sparks I think you missed a key point to gooch's post. They said "when they didn't feel safe". I took that to mean the same as my post, that when your gut tells you something just isn't right.

 

I get it. What are you going to do if you don't feel safe? As you point out you are going to start preparing for the worst in the best way that you can. That is a good strategy. But the bottom line is if the crew says that everything is okay there is very little that any of us can do as far as proving to ourselves that everything really is okay.

[gooch47]

I remember hearing or reading once that on an airplane you should watch the flight attendants. If they seem agitated or in a rush to do things, then maybe things aren't at all well.

 

You could do the same on a ship. Go down to the atrium. Check out what the crew seems to be doing. If you are in a balcony cabin and it is safe to go out on the balcony, look up at the bridge. Are they all wearing life jackets? (Just kidding ... mostly)

 

What I'm saying is I'm not going to just roll over and go back to sleep. At an absolute minimum, I'll get up, get dressed and see that my grab bag and flashlight are within reach.

[che5904]

I get it. What are you going to do if you don't feel safe? As you point out you are going to start preparing for the worst in the best way that you can. That is a good strategy. But the bottom line is if the crew says that everything is okay there is very little that any of us can do as far as proving to ourselves that everything really is okay.

 

Oh I agree completely you are very limited in what you can do. It's not like if I feel at risk I can lower my own lifeboat. ;)

 

But I would hope (and I say that because chances are with human nature I would probably panic), that I may do things like, take a mental note of exits, think where my best routes may be to get to either my muster station or at least an open deck near life boats. If I'm in my cabin or close to it, I may grab certain things like my flashlight, ID etc and make sure they are on me.

 

I'm very good at getting to know the ship on the first day, listening carefully at muster drills. But I do have to admit, on a normal day at sea, when I enter the MDR, spinnakers or the theatre etc that I don't look around for all exits in case of emergency.

 

Thats the type of things I was talking about.

[che5904]

If you are in a balcony cabin and it is safe to go out on the balcony, look up at the bridge. Are they all wearing life jackets? (Just kidding ... mostly)

.

 

:D LOL yeah that might be a good indication, that somethin' just ain't right. ;)

[sparks1093]

I remember hearing or reading once that on an airplane you should watch the flight attendants. If they seem agitated or in a rush to do things, then maybe things aren't at all well.

 

You could do the same on a ship. Go down to the atrium. Check out what the crew seems to be doing. If you are in a balcony cabin and it is safe to go out on the balcony, look up at the bridge. Are they all wearing life jackets? (Just kidding ... mostly)

 

What I'm saying is I'm not going to just roll over and go back to sleep. At an absolute minimum, I'll get up, get dressed and see that my grab bag and flashlight are within reach.

 

 

:D LOL yeah that might be a good indication, that somethin' just ain't right. ;)

 

Or watching to see if the Captain is climbing into a lifeboat:eek:.

 

Oh I agree completely you are very limited in what you can do. It's not like if I feel at risk I can lower my own lifeboat. ;)

 

But I would hope (and I say that because chances are with human nature I would probably panic), that I may do things like, take a mental note of exits, think where my best routes may be to get to either my muster station or at least an open deck near life boats. If I'm in my cabin or close to it, I may grab certain things like my flashlight, ID etc and make sure they are on me.

 

I'm very good at getting to know the ship on the first day, listening carefully at muster drills. But I do have to admit, on a normal day at sea, when I enter the MDR, spinnakers or the theatre etc that I don't look around for all exits in case of emergency.

 

Thats the type of things I was talking about.

 

I almost used "lower your own lifeboat" but amended it;). Yep, paying attention to things like exits, emergency equipment and emergency routes are good things to do.

[SuiteCruiser]

I sail Friday for a weekend cruise on the Sky. I don't really know how I'm going to feel. I'm a little uneasy right now, but that's because I've been torturing myself by reading everything there is to read on the Costa board and in the news.

 

I've never been afraid at sea, and I hope I'm not this weekend, either.

 

We do need to put our trust in people that we don't know in case of emergencies. We also need to trust our gut. So there needs to be a balance.

I understand that abandoning ship is the last thing that any captain wants to do as it in itself is dangerous. But if it's called too late, like in this case, it means they can't do a proper evacuation.

 

I think they should learn from this and build a testing facility where crew can train in various simulated emergency situations. I know the airlines have them, even if the top crew emergency leaders could have some hands-on training on a listing ship, in a blackout, etc, they could provide feedback to their teams.

 

I also think it would be better to do the muster at some time between gates closing and setting sail, and have everyone made aware that it will happen via documentation of some sort, then have the actual alarms sound and have the muster drill start at an undetermined time. Much like a fire drill. Bars close, leave your bowling game, etc. Might be more realistic than 18 announcements that it is coming in 15, 10 5 minutes, etc.

[janvino]

I sail Friday for a weekend cruise on the Sky. I don't really know how I'm going to feel. I'm a little uneasy right now, but that's because I've been torturing myself by reading everything there is to read on the Costa board and in the news.

 

I've never been afraid at sea, and I hope I'm not this weekend, either.

 

We do need to put our trust in people that we don't know in case of emergencies. We also need to trust our gut. So there needs to be a balance.

I understand that abandoning ship is the last thing that any captain wants to do as it in itself is dangerous. But if it's called too late, like in this case, it means they can't do a proper evacuation.

 

I think they should learn from this and build a testing facility where crew can train in various simulated emergency situations. I know the airlines have them, even if the top crew emergency leaders could have some hands-on training on a listing ship, in a blackout, etc, they could provide feedback to their teams.

 

I also think it would be better to do the muster at some time between gates closing and setting sail, and have everyone made aware that it will happen via documentation of some sort, then have the actual alarms sound and have the muster drill start at an undetermined time. Much like a fire drill. Bars close, leave your bowling game, etc. Might be more realistic than 18 announcements that it is coming in 15, 10 5 minutes, etc.

 

I have no qualms with regards to cruising. It is far safer than my daily commute on the 401 or than being a Canadian tourist in Mexico!!!

[TOP DECK]

After reading all of these posts I believe I will follow my instincts as to what to do in an emergency on a ship. If a loud noise as in hitting something, an explosion or listing is the issue I do not believe I will be moving to a lower deck to hop on a life boat. The engine room would be the natural area for an explosion so I will not be traveling in that direction. If a fire broke out then maybe heading down to the life boats would be wise. It all depends on the situation at hand.

[SuiteCruiser]

I have no qualms with regards to cruising. It is far safer than my daily commute on the 401 or than being a Canadian tourist in Mexico!!!

 

I agree, though getting on a ship a week after the wreck is probably going to be harder than getting on one months after. We'll see how it goes. I love cruising, and have no intentions of giving it up.

[VideoTech]

I sail Friday for a weekend cruise on the Sky. I don't really know how I'm going to feel. I'm a little uneasy right now, but that's because I've been torturing myself by reading everything there is to read on the Costa board and in the news.....

 

I wouldn't worry about your cruise. Please remember that statistically, the number of incidents like this vs. the number of miles that cruise ships sail is very, very, very, very small. It is still an extremely safe way to travel.

 

Much the same can be said about airline travel...statistically, very safe. But when something happens, of course it attracts a lot of attention - precisely because it so rarely happens.

 

The crew on board every ship is trained for emergencies, but you can never predict how well any person will react (or remember their training) when the real thing happens. I'm sure there were many crew members on the Costa ship who did exactly what they were trained to do...but you won't hear anything about them.

 

And finally, I'm sure that this accident will cause all the cruise lines to re-evaluate their procedures and training. You'll probably start to see differences in the muster drills almost immediately, if for no other reason than that the majority of passengers will now be paying very good attention for a change.