Concordia News: Please Post Here

[kingcruiser1]

From monstersandcritics.com:

 

Europe Features

INTERVIEW: CEO: Despite accidents, Costa Crociere to keep cruising

By Peter Mayer Mar 7, 2012, 14:44 GMT

 

Link: http://news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/features/article_1694234.php/INTERVIEW-CEO-Despite-accidents-Costa-Crociere-to-keep-cruising

[kingcruiser1]

Article from Scientific American, March 6, 2012:

Raise It or Raze It?

Link: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=raise-it-or-raze-it-how-will-italian-cruise-ship-be-salvaged

[balf]

I have to agree that it is a terrible offer and Costa should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about treating your employees like crap...this takes the cake. :mad:

 

The workers have no obligation to accept the offer. The question is, can they resume employment with Costa if they don't, and have they been told that they can't unless they accept.

 

David

[Chunky2219]

Those crew who survived the Titanic had their wages stopped from the moment the ship went down. The families of those who perished received a bill for the cost of their uniforms.

 

It looks as if things have improved in the last 100 years, but not by much.

..

.

.

[Tonka's Skipper]

This takes the Buscuit............How can Costa stoop so low !!!

 

[/i]

 

 

Im sorry but I feel that Costa have gone beyond a joke on this one, its nothing more thank blackmail.

 

 

As the people who take the cruises onboard this companies ship it is up to us to make our voices known to Carnival and Costa of our disapproval and make them reconsider their actions regarding the pay towards the crew from the Costa Concordia. Why should the lower staff be penalised due to actions of the rogue Captain and mismanagement at Costa

 

 

Do you agree with telling Costa you dont agree !!!

 

 

I totally agree !....AKK

[LuvBNatC]

Micki

 

If NCL had done this (and I doubt they would) I'd be sending "shame on you" emails to top Execs in their corporate offices.

 

John

PS

I don't know such people at the other cruise lines

 

Speaking of NCL, (I'm working from memory here, but I have a file on this several inches thick with all the details if I need to back myself up)...

 

Back when the SS Norway had a boiler explosion that ended the ship's sailing life in 2003, 8 or 9 crew members were essentially boiled alive and more than a dozen were seriously injured. I believe most them were from the Philippines, and NCL offered the survivors' families $10,000, citing that the crew contracts with NCL were governed by Philippine law because that's where they were hired, and that's all they'd get in court there.

 

The crew had a maritime lawyer in Miami named William Huggett who was going to fight for more, but he suddenly dropped dead. I don't know how/if the case was ever resolved.

 

But I would say offering $10K as compensation for losing the family breadwinner is unconscionable.

 

The cruise lines' main concern is the bottom line and pleasing the stockholders. There's an endless supply of crew in poor countries that would never go to bat for them against some monstrous American corporation, so there's no incentive for the lines to be decent about their treatment.

[Uniall]

Speaking of NCL, (I'm working from memory here, but I have a file on this several inches thick with all the details if I need to back myself up)...

 

Back when the SS Norway had a boiler explosion that ended the ship's sailing life in 2003, 8 or 9 crew members were essentially boiled alive and more than a dozen were seriously injured. I believe most them were from the Philippines, and NCL offered the survivors' families $10,000, citing that the crew contracts with NCL were governed by Philippine law because that's where they were hired, and that's all they'd get in court there.

 

The crew had a maritime lawyer in Miami named William Huggett who was going to fight for more, but he suddenly dropped dead. I don't know how/if the case was ever resolved.

 

But I would say offering $10K as compensation for losing the family breadwinner is unconscionable.

 

The cruise lines' main concern is the bottom line and pleasing the stockholders. There's an endless supply of crew in poor countries that would never go to bat for them against some monstrous American corporation, so there's no incentive for the lines to be decent about their treatment.

 

Karen

 

I don't know anything about the boiler explosion case on the SS Norway.

 

Part of my professional career involved enforcement of both federal worker safety law and state worker's compensation law in the late 70s & early 80s. The disparity in worker compensation awards ran from incredibly gigantic to unbelievably miserly with a reasonable middle ground in between. The general rule of thumb was a life was worth 5 to 20 years, depending on the state and was multiplied times the average take home pay (after taxes). I'd guess the median weekly take home pay at the time was between $5 -$10 K, from state to state . So, a median US worker's comp case would have been between $25-$200 K, depending on the state. I'm sure workers in the high pay states thought that workers in the low end states were getting ripped off.

 

The disparity is even greater when comparing such laws in various countries. I have no idea what $10 K US could buy in the Phillipines at the time of the boiler explosion.

 

 

John

Edited March 8, 2012 by Uniall

[greg-nc]

Headline from today's Repubblica:

"So I saved 1.2 million euros"

The business manager had the task to salvage the money from the coffers of the ship: "I threw the bag on the cloth of a boat"

 

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/03/06/news/concordia_il_racconto_del_contabile_cos_salvai_1_2_milioni_di_euro-31066227/

 

It seems like Costa did a much better job of looking after the money than they did in taking care of the passengers. :(

[LuvBNatC]

Uniall, NCL bought the SS France, one of the last legendary ocean liners, in 1978, spent millions converting her for warm-weather cruising, and renamed her SS Norway.

 

From 1980, NCL proudly advertised Norway as the flagship of the fleet. She was the longest cruise ship in the world (1,035 feet), and first to have MANY features and amenities it took years for the new megaships to duplicate, let alone surpass.

 

Around the mid-1990s, when NCL was changing presidents as often as you'd change socks, they decided boxy new "white ships" were the future.

 

The Norway's classic liner construction and royal blue hull, didn't fit the mold. So they ran her hard, cut corners on maintenance, didn't bring her fully up to SOLAS standards, took the money and ran.

 

The boiler that exploded in 2003 was an original from the 1963-vintage France. It ran for 40 years. Do you think any of these new plastic ships will still be around in 40 years?

 

After the explosion, NCL kept Norway in limbo for several years, assuring her legions of repeat pax that they would repair the ship and bring her back.

 

The story gets long and convoluted here, but suffice it to say NCL resorted to some legally shifty behavior and let Norway go to scrap in India, with her grand pianos, MILLIONS worth of artwork, EVERYTHING left onboard so they couldn't be accused of premeditation.

 

Some of the things were saved by salvagers, but a huge and irreplaceable piece of maritime history was destroyed. Thank you, NCL.

 

Yes, I know, it's all about profit. But if NCL had a disaster similar to Costa's, I have no doubt they would respond as badly, or worse.

[SomeBeach]

It seems like Costa did a much better job of looking after the money than they did in taking care of the passengers. :(

 

Do you think it would be any different on another line? I would say no. If time allows, the financial officers of each ship are probably required to do the same.

[Uniall]

Uniall, NCL bought the SS France, one of the last legendary ocean liners, in 1978, spent millions converting her for warm-weather cruising, and renamed her SS Norway.

 

From 1980, NCL proudly advertised Norway as the flagship of the fleet. She was the longest cruise ship in the world (1,035 feet), and first to have MANY features and amenities it took years for the new megaships to duplicate, let alone surpass.

 

Around the mid-1990s, when NCL was changing presidents as often as you'd change socks, they decided boxy new "white ships" were the future.

 

The Norway's classic liner construction and royal blue hull, didn't fit the mold. So they ran her hard, cut corners on maintenance, didn't bring her fully up to SOLAS standards, took the money and ran.

 

The boiler that exploded in 2003 was an original from the 1963-vintage France. It ran for 40 years. Do you think any of these new plastic ships will still be around in 40 years?

 

After the explosion, NCL kept Norway in limbo for several years, assuring her legions of repeat pax that they would repair the ship and bring her back.

 

The story gets long and convoluted here, but suffice it to say NCL resorted to some legally shifty behavior and let Norway go to scrap in India, with her grand pianos, MILLIONS worth of artwork, EVERYTHING left onboard so they couldn't be accused of premeditation.

 

Some of the things were saved by salvagers, but a huge and irreplaceable piece of maritime history was destroyed. Thank you, NCL.

 

Yes, I know, it's all about profit. But if NCL had a disaster similar to Costa's, I have no doubt they would respond as badly, or worse.

 

Karen

 

It seems that you are angry with NCL (and/or its fomer owners) for sending the SS Norway to the scrap heap in addition to a believed unconsciencable death benefit award offer to families of employees who were killed in a 2003 boiler explosion. In that vein, I tried to discuss my personal experience with workers' compensation death benefits with you.

 

But, now you've moved on to to an issue with NCL's decision to scrap a 40 year old ship. Apparently, we have vastly divergent views of personal property rights. I see no useful purpose in pursuing this topic.

 

John

Edited March 8, 2012 by Uniall

[Tonka's Skipper]

Uniall, NCL bought the SS France, one of the last legendary ocean liners, in 1978, spent millions converting her for warm-weather cruising, and renamed her SS Norway.

 

From 1980, NCL proudly advertised Norway as the flagship of the fleet. She was the longest cruise ship in the world (1,035 feet), and first to have MANY features and amenities it took years for the new megaships to duplicate, let alone surpass.

 

Around the mid-1990s, when NCL was changing presidents as often as you'd change socks, they decided boxy new "white ships" were the future.

 

The Norway's classic liner construction and royal blue hull, didn't fit the mold. So they ran her hard, cut corners on maintenance, didn't bring her fully up to SOLAS standards, took the money and ran.

 

The boiler that exploded in 2003 was an original from the 1963-vintage France. It ran for 40 years. Do you think any of these new plastic ships will still be around in 40 years?

 

After the explosion, NCL kept Norway in limbo for several years, assuring her legions of repeat pax that they would repair the ship and bring her back.

 

The story gets long and convoluted here, but suffice it to say NCL resorted to some legally shifty behavior and let Norway go to scrap in India, with her grand pianos, MILLIONS worth of artwork, EVERYTHING left onboard so they couldn't be accused of premeditation.

 

Some of the things were saved by salvagers, but a huge and irreplaceable piece of maritime history was destroyed. Thank you, NCL.

 

Yes, I know, it's all about profit. But if NCL had a disaster similar to Costa's, I have no doubt they would respond as badly, or worse.

 

 

I was a new 3rd mate standing watch in staplton anchorage on the S/S Texaco Floride, when the then S/S France left on what was to be her last voyage under French line livery. I found out a day or 2 later as we sailed NY that she had a grand total of .....67 passigeners onboard.........

 

 

* raise a Glass of chardonney to the memory of a fine vessel and Lady!*

 

 

AKK

[kingcruiser1]

An interesting article:

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2012/03/07/travel-detective-blog-marine-salvage-the-costa-concordia/

[LuvBNatC]

Karen

 

It seems that you are angry with NCL (and/or its fomer owners) for sending the SS Norway to the scrap heap in addition to a believed unconsciencable death benefit award offer to families of employees who were killed in a 2003 boiler explosion. In that vein, I tried to discuss my personal experience with workers' compensation death benefits with you.

 

But, now you've moved on to to an issue with NCL's decision to scrap a 40 year old ship. Apparently, we have vastly divergent views of personal property rights. I see no useful purpose in pursuing this topic.

 

John

 

John, I apologize for misunderstanding. I thought you were unfamiliar with the ship, so I was merely explaining what happened to it. I had no intention of "pursuing the topic" any further. There's nothing to pursue.

 

Yes, it would be correct to assume that I have no love for NCL at this point, but I understand profit.

 

Sorry to go off-topic on this thread.

[greg-nc]

Italian Tanker ship runs aground off Sicily

 

ROME (AP) — The crew of an Italian tanker was evacuated by helicopter Saturday after the ship ran aground off Sicily in storm-tossed seas, and took on water in its engine room.

 

....

 

The ship had come to rest at such an angle that it was impossible to lower lifeboats

 

Sounds familiar.

Edited March 10, 2012 by greg-nc

[Davyjonesrugrat]

These photo's were taken 40 mins ago and show her getting lashed by the high seas.

 

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/showallphotos.aspx?imo=9367360#top_photo

 

There are 4 or 5 photos.

 

rgds

[Aplmac]

Italian Tanker ship runs aground off Sicily

 

ROME (AP) — The crew of an Italian tanker was evacuated by helicopter Saturday

after the ship ran aground off Sicily in storm-tossed seas, and took on water in its engine room.

....

 

The ship had come to rest at such an angle that it was impossible to lower lifeboats

 

Sounds familiar.

Just another salute - a flyby.

 

Everything's normal: nothing to see here: move along!

.

[Uniall]

Italian Tanker ship runs aground off Sicily

 

ROME (AP) — The crew of an Italian tanker was evacuated by helicopter Saturday after the ship ran aground off Sicily in storm-tossed seas, and took on water in its engine room.

 

....

 

The ship had come to rest at such an angle that it was impossible to lower lifeboats

 

Sounds familiar.

 

My sympathy to the officers of the ship. RIP :eek:

 

In Sicilian waters, the investigative, prosecutorial, judicial and punishment authority are all vested with the "Godfather's Court of Mafiosa Justice." :D :p

 

John

 

//

[Aplmac]

Hot off the (Facebook) press... from John Heald...

 

I was asked by Keith about Costa Concordia and I owe him an apology because he is correct.... sort of.

I heard from a very senior beard that Costa Concordia is a constructive total loss.

So, Carnival Corporation will receive the insurance proceeds and underwriters will dispose of her.

 

Costa Allegra has been written down since she won't be repaired or returned to service

because she was for sale anyway!

Carnival Corporation will decide if she is repaired and sold, or scrapped at a later date.

 

That's the latest news.

Edited March 10, 2012 by aplmac

[Hebersgyll]

Is anyone suggesting that Miss Cemortan might have been aboard?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Hebersgyll

[littlesteelo]

Hot off the (Facebook) press... from John Heald...

 

I was asked by Keith about Costa Concordia and I owe him an apology because he is correct.... sort of.

I heard from a very senior beard that Costa Concordia is a constructive total loss.

So, Carnival Corporation will receive the insurance proceeds and underwriters will dispose of her.

 

I think it is quite sad if this plays out to be true. Any ship at the breakers is a sad sight, but one as new and as big as Concordia being scrapped is a strange thing to imagine. She would have had decades of good service still to go.

 

I would imagine those who worked on her at Fincantieri would be sad to see their hard work go to waste.

[GranysT]

Yes, very sad indeed. What a beautiful ship, to be chopped up and destroyed. Of course after lying in that water all this time, she's probably not so beautiful anymore.

[Aplmac]

Now...hang on a bit --don't get yer knickers all in a twist just yet! :)

 

The release said...

Carnival Corporation will receive the insurance proceeds and underwriters will dispose of her.

 

..which means that Carnival Corp. will get a (very welcome) check for a few million bucks

and then the underwriters will dispose of their new possession in whatever manner they see fit.

 

Whether this is a quick trip to the breakers yard or not remains to be seen.

The underwriters/insurers might sell her off to some outfit to be reconditioned and converted

into a coal-carrier for all we know!

 

If we see her being chopped up in situ, we'll know her end is near

but even that may not be.

It's not impossible that they chop off all her superstructure

so they can easier refloat the bare hull itself to be towed away somewhere.

 

Again, only time will tell

but at least we know Concordia has been "written-off" as far as Carnival and the insurers are concerned.

She may yet live again in some other morph.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Now...hang on a bit --don't get yer knickers all in a twist just yet! :)

 

The release said...

Carnival Corporation will receive the insurance proceeds and underwriters will dispose of her.

 

..which means that Carnival Corp. will get a (very welcome) check for a few million bucks

and then the underwriters will dispose of their new possession in whatever manner they see fit.

 

Whether this is a quick trip to the breakers yard or not remains to be seen.

The underwriters/insurers might sell her off to some outfit to be reconditioned and converted

into a coal-carrier for all we know!

 

If we see her being chopped up in situ, we'll know her end is near

but even that may not be.

It's not impossible that they chop off all her superstructure

so they can easier refloat the bare hull itself to be towed away somewhere.

 

Again, only time will tell

but at least we know Concordia has been "written-off" as far as Carnival and the insurers are concerned.

She may yet live again in some other morph.

 

 

Is is possible she could be rebuilt into a cargo ship of some kind. Think about all this time underwater..salt water........and the massive hull damage which we know of on the port side and the grinding on the starboard side, not to mention what is almost garrentteed, a lot of unknown damage...it is not likely..However as you pointed out it is possible.

 

 

AKK

 

 

AKK

[Uniall]

Not intended to create a debate or create ill will but only in the interest of making sure the casual reader/lurker understands there are differing personal opinions, I'd like to comment.

 

I do not share an abiding love affair for old ships. I consider them a mode of utility transport (not the mythical "Lady") that are built and replaced on a schedule depending upon their current ability to meet their purpose at a current efficient cost.

 

The old SS Norway was an "ocean liner", not a "cruise ship" that was built for passenger transport not passenger holidays with an extremely high crew/passenger cost ratio and, like an old pet, needed to be "put to sleep."

 

As for the Concordia, if the insurance underwritters conclude that the ship is a total loss, so be it. I believe the last thing that should occur is the refloating, rebuilding, and refitting of a ship, out of misguided nostalgia, that runs the risk of putting future pasengers and crew in harms way.

 

In my view, a ship is nothing more than steel, wood, and plastic that has a useful purpose and should be scrapped and melted down and used to create a new and useful thing when it can no longer fill its original purpose 100%.

 

John

Edited March 11, 2012 by Uniall