Concordia News: Please Post Here

[krhpee]

As per NUMEROUS Media reporting that Schettino slowed down and sped up, that is FALSE INFORMATION!!!

 

AIS recordings from various sources have PROVEN those False Media Claims/Reports to be false!!

 

Please watch this in its entirety and note both the speeds and the time line: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grounding+Costa+Concordia.wmv

 

Here is a more detailed and more recent one to watch: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grouding+Costa+Concordia+January+13+2012+AIS+Reconstruction+by+QPS.wmv

 

You can see more here on their web site: http://www.qps.nl/display/qastor/2012/01/17/20120117_stranding

 

If you do a Google Search under AIS Costa Concordia Timeline you will find even more that disprove the media reports.

 

Joanie

thank you for this informative post. i cruise a lot and am concerned of what to do in emergency as this. I find your posts quite helpful. thanks again

[greg-nc]

Here is a more complete press story about the interview with Domnica Cemortan.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106516/Costa-Concordia-Domnica-Cemortan-kissed-captain-Francisco-Schettino-crash.html

[Tranquil Waters]

As per NUMEROUS Media reporting that Schettino slowed down and sped up, that is FALSE INFORMATION!!!

 

AIS recordings from various sources have PROVEN those False Media Claims/Reports to be false!!

 

Please watch this in its entirety and note both the speeds and the time line: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grounding+Costa+Concordia.wmv

 

Here is a more detailed and more recent one to watch: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grouding+Costa+Concordia+January+13+2012+AIS+Reconstruction+by+QPS.wmv

 

You can see more here on their web site: http://www.qps.nl/display/qastor/2012/01/17/20120117_stranding

 

If you do a Google Search under AIS Costa Concordia Timeline you will find even more that disprove the media reports.

 

Joanie

 

I stand corrected. But the parent company still knew about salutes close to shore and about captains having female guests on board who, along with others, provided a distraction to the captain on the bridge at the time of the tragedy.......

[greg-nc]

As per NUMEROUS Media reporting that Schettino slowed down and sped up, that is FALSE INFORMATION!!!

 

AIS recordings from various sources have PROVEN those False Media Claims/Reports to be false!!

 

Please watch this in its entirety and note both the speeds and the time line: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grounding+Costa+Concordia.wmv

 

Here is a more detailed and more recent one to watch: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grouding+Costa+Concordia+January+13+2012+AIS+Reconstruction+by+QPS.wmv

 

You can see more here on their web site: http://www.qps.nl/display/qastor/2012/01/17/20120117_stranding

 

If you do a Google Search under AIS Costa Concordia Timeline you will find even more that disprove the media reports.

 

Joanie

 

I don't know if it is true or not about the captain speeding up the ship as he approached the island to make up time. However I will point out that a number of people have pointed out that AIS calculates average speed over a period of time and not real time instantaneous speed. According to these sources you would need the black box from the ship to properly determine if the allegations about the captain speeding up the ship are correct.

[KatetheWanderer]

Points of unecessary correction--he was on the bridge trying to impress an orange. Once they go to the bottle, certain brown-eyed girls have to settle for a lighter shade of orange. This gal is clearly an orange. I should know.

He was not the first old man to be brought to ruin by the distractiion of a much younger woman with orange hair.

(People do not generally live to be over a 100 so I use the term "old" as in beyond the middle-aged years.)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Points of unecessary correction--he was on the bridge trying to impress an orange. Once they go to the bottle, certain brown-eyed girls have to settle for a lighter shade of orange. This gal is clearly an orange. I should know.

He was not the first old man to be brought to ruin by the distractiion of a much younger woman with orange hair.

(People do not generally live to be over a 100 so I use the term "old" as in beyond the middle-aged years.)

Ouch, that hurt !!! You could have let me down gently !!! OMG 53 and Im now OLD !!!...

 

Have you no compassion Kate !!!:):):)

[Uniall]

As per NUMEROUS Media reporting that Schettino slowed down and sped up, that is FALSE INFORMATION!!!

 

AIS recordings from various sources have PROVEN those False Media Claims/Reports to be false!!

 

Please watch this in its entirety and note both the speeds and the time line: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grounding+Costa+Concordia.wmv

 

Here is a more detailed and more recent one to watch: http://news.qps.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/Grouding+Costa+Concordia+January+13+2012+AIS+Reconstruction+by+QPS.wmv

 

You can see more here on their web site: http://www.qps.nl/display/qastor/2012/01/17/20120117_stranding

 

If you do a Google Search under AIS Costa Concordia Timeline you will find even more that disprove the media reports.

 

Joanie

 

Joanie

 

Your time elapse chart covers 13 minutes at a speed of 15 knots, begining at 20:32 with the collision occured at 20:45.

 

I think the latest reports and commentaries indicating Schittino had the ship moving at a slower rate of speed, while he was in the dining room for a liersurely dinner with Dominca, was before 20:32 and asserts he increased speed upon returning to the bridge, to make up lost time.

 

John

Edited February 26, 2012 by Uniall

[Tranquil Waters]

Joanie

 

Your time elapse chart covers 13 minutes at a speed of 15 knots, begining at 20:32 with the collision occured at 20:45.

 

I think the latest reports and commentaries indicating Schittino had the ship moving at a slower rate of speed, while he was in the dining room for a liersurely dinner with Dominca, was before 20:32 and asserts he increased speed upon returning to the bridge.

 

John

 

So now I should take back my correction? :p

[Davyjonesrugrat]

So now I should take back my correction? :p

No I would meansure the distance/time period from dropping off the pilot it will then give the average speed.........No one will be wrong then......

 

The information stating a 'decrease' in speed has not been confirmed (No offence Uniall) and therefore cannot be counted nor discounted and hence take my suggestion of the average speed between leaving port to the time of contact.....

 

Its called covering ones back lol.....

 

regards

:):)

[KatetheWanderer]

Ouch, that hurt !!! You could have let me down gently !!! OMG 53 and Im now OLD !!!...

 

Have you no compassion Kate !!!:):):)

 

I turned 53 on my last cruise in December... on Costa!! So I have given this some thought. I am no longer middle-aged.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I turned 53 on my last cruise in December... on Costa!! So I have given this some thought. I am no longer middle-aged.

That is your excuse !!!.....You are just trying to let me down gently !! Thanks but the damage is done !!

 

I am now a former shell of myself !!!

 

regards

:)

[CruisersNC]

I turned 53 on my last cruise in December... on Costa!! So I have given this some thought. I am no longer middle-aged.

 

I'll be 53 in October....and suddenly I'm depressed. :(

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I'll be 53 in October....and suddenly I'm depressed. :(

I have decided that Kate is a woman without a heart lol....Do you agree??? lol

 

regards:):):)

[Vampire Parrot]

I've just watched the European edition of Discovery's "Cruise Ship Disaster" program.

 

Discovery have a lot of experience of producing programs about Air Accidents, and that experience shows. The program wasn't overly dramatic, it contained enough human interest stories to not be dry, and still managed to concentrate on the known facts and probable conclusions.

 

For some reason, the Flag of Europe on Concordia's shoulder is blurred out in the opening sequence, why I don't know.

 

There are some very short extracts of the video shot on the bridge after Concordia hit the rocks. More extensive footage is available on various websites.

 

The CGI footage of Concordia before and after the collision annoyed me; the lights being shown by the ship were wrong. A minor point but typical of journalistic carelessness.

 

The Massachusetts Maritime Academy (MMA) gave their opinion as to the cause and the subsequent actions. The physical cause of the accident was turning too late, travelling too fast, leading to the rocks penetrating the hull leading to flooding of three or four compartments. At no point did they suggest that thrusters were used to move Concordia closer to land.

 

The decision process leading to the physical cause wasn't explored, and that's what I'm really interested in. That will come out in the preliminary accident report, due out in May. (The program didn't state that the report is due out in May. The Italian Authorities have stated to the International Maritime Organisation that they will have a preliminary report ready for the IMO meeting in May)

 

The MMA said that Concordia going aground was the wind pushing her ashore, due to the large sail area she presented. Anyone who has had to maneuver a vessel in a confined area with a crosswind will know exactly what they mean.

 

Nothing was said about the Captain being distracted. Nothing was said about Domnica Cemortan, the Moldovan Blonde woman.

 

VP

Edited February 26, 2012 by Vampire Parrot

[IndyDenise]

.

 

The decision process leading to the physical cause wasn't explored, and that's what I'm really interested in. That will come out in the preliminary accident report, due out in May. (The program didn't state that the report is due out in May. The Italian Authorities have stated to the International Maritime Organisation that they will have a preliminary report ready for the IMO meeting in May)

 

The MMA said that Concordia going aground was the wind pushing her ashore, due to the large sail area she presented. Anyone who has had to maneuver a vessel in a confined area with a crosswind will know exactly what they mean.

 

Nothing was said about the Captain being distracted. Nothing was said about Domnica Cemortan, the Moldovan Blonde woman.

 

VP

 

------------------

 

She's an Orange :D and I am old...

 

and I don't think the Orange was a distraction ..the Capt's ego was!

[Uniall]

I've just watched the European edition of Discovery's "Cruise Ship Disaster" program.

 

Discovery have a lot of experience of producing programs about Air Accidents, and that experience shows. The program wasn't overly dramatic, it contained enough human interest stories to not be dry, and still managed to concentrate on the known facts and probable conclusions.

 

For some reason, the Flag of Europe on Concordia's shoulder is blurred out in the opening sequence, why I don't know.

 

There are some very short extracts of the video shot on the bridge after Concordia hit the rocks. More extensive footage is available on various websites.

 

The CGI footage of Concordia before and after the collision annoyed me; the lights being shown by the ship were wrong. A minor point but typical of journalistic carelessness.

 

The Massachusetts Maritime Academy (MMA) gave their opinion as to the cause and the subsequent actions. The physical cause of the accident was turning too late, travelling too fast, leading to the rocks penetrating the hull leading to flooding of three or four compartments. At no point did they suggest that thrusters were used to move Concordia closer to land.

 

The decision process leading to the physical cause wasn't explored, and that's what I'm really interested in. That will come out in the preliminary accident report, due out in May. (The program didn't state that the report is due out in May. The Italian Authorities have stated to the International Maritime Organisation that they will have a preliminary report ready for the IMO meeting in May)

 

The MMA said that Concordia going aground was the wind pushing her ashore, due to the large sail area she presented. Anyone who has had to maneuver a vessel in a confined area with a crosswind will know exactly what they mean.

 

Nothing was said about the Captain being distracted. Nothing was said about Domnica Cemortan, the Moldovan Blonde woman.

 

VP

 

Aristotillian and Thomastic Logic teaches that an "Efficient Cause" is the action that effects change. There can be multiple efficient causes that effect a change. Furthermore, some of the efficient changes (because of their power to effect change) can be deemed Primary Efficient Causes with others being Secondary.

 

Western civilization law recognizes these distinctions and depending upon the aggregiousness of the harm to be prevented will punish the perpetrators of primary causes and sometimes secondary causes as well.

 

In the Concordia's case the results are extremely aggregious and may have been caused by high speed and/or turning to late but the real question is what were the underlying primary causes of the high speed and late turn? (e.g. wifull and wanton conduct, recklessness negligence, incompetence, etc.)

 

The failure to name such underlying primary causes is not proof that they do not exist but merely demonstrates they were not being discussed.

 

John

Edited February 27, 2012 by Uniall

[glrounds]

I turned 53 on my last cruise in December... on Costa!! So I have given this some thought. I am no longer middle-aged.

 

I'll turn 73 on my birthday cruise in October, so both you and Kate can relish the fact that you both have the world by the tail. :D

 

[Keel Haul]

Ahhh. I did misunderstand. I am not sure how I feel about that firewall. If CCL was aware of salutes and captains having female guests, then I guess I still hope the firewall doesn't hold. If they had no knowledge (hard to believe) then i guess I would feel it was OK for the buck to stop with Costa.

Tranq I would bet that we may see a repeat of this http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14993772,00.html I also think that Costa's CEO made the wrong move in to use your parlance "throwing Schettino under the Bus". To me I would want him on full pay and provide his legal team.

IMO after March 3 there will be enough to charge the CEO of Costa, he appointed a criminal defense team in Jan.The Costa CEO is a main board member of the parent company and I think pretty soon he should look out for buses.

[Tranquil Waters]

Tranq I would bet that we may see a repeat of this http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14993772,00.html I also think that Costa's CEO made the wrong move in to use your parlance "throwing Schettino under the Bus". To me I would want him on full pay and provide his legal team.

IMO after March 3 there will be enough to charge the CEO of Costa, he appointed a criminal defense team in Jan.The Costa CEO is a main board member of the parent company and I think pretty soon he should look out for buses.

 

Wow! Doesn't give circumstances of fire but those are stiff punishments. I want the corporation to take a big financial hit because that is where I think it will hurt the most. People tend to be too easily expendable (that throw them under the bus thing...).

 

I could be happy with those most responsible losing jobs and getting maybe 5 years in jail (except for perhaps the captain who bears the most responsibility and he could get more time fairly to my way of thinking).

 

But I would love to see millions awarded in settlements plus big, big legal fines imposed.

[Uniall]

Wow! Doesn't give circumstances of fire but those are stiff punishments. I want the corporation to take a big financial hit because that is where I think it will hurt the most. People tend to be too easily expendable (that throw them under the bus thing...).

 

I could be happy with those most responsible losing jobs and getting maybe 5 years in jail (except for perhaps the captain who bears the most responsibility and he could get more time fairly to my way of thinking).

 

But I would love to see millions awarded in settlements plus big, big legal fines imposed.

 

I agree with your underlying premises and porposed punishment but respectfully disagree with you conclusion that millions in liability awards and fines will affect a change of corporate mind set.

 

In my experience, the larger the corporation, the smaller the long term affect of judgements, fines & penalties on changing their way of doing business. Prison sentences for coporate officers seem to be the only way to achieve long lasting corporate change.

 

John

[Keel Haul]

Wow! Doesn't give circumstances of fire but those are stiff punishments. I want the corporation to take a big financial hit because that is where I think it will hurt the most. People tend to be too easily expendable (that throw them under the bus thing...).

 

I could be happy with those most responsible losing jobs and getting maybe 5 years in jail (except for perhaps the captain who bears the most responsibility and he could get more time fairly to my way of thinking).

 

But I would love to see millions awarded in settlements plus big, big legal fines imposed.

This conversation between us is obviously speculative, if I may the first duty of any Corporate charge must be about gaining justice for the dead and their relatives and if proven the tariff must be commensurate.

Any financial hit is and will be born by the shareholder and insurance companies.

[CruisersNC]

I just read than another Costa ship.....the Allegra.....had a small fire aboard and has lost power and is adrift off Seychelles. The fire is out but the engines aren't running.....some cargo ships are responding. This looks like an older, smaller ship with only 600+ passengers and 400+ crew. Hopefully they'll get the engines running. It doesn't sound like there was much damage but this is the last thing Costa needs right now.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27/costa-allegra-on-fire-off_n_1303972.html?ref=travel&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl15%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D138792

[Tranquil Waters]

I agree with your underlying premises and porposed punishment but respectfully disagree with you conclusion that millions in liability awards and fines will affect a change of corporate mind set.

 

In my experience, the larger the corporation, the smaller the long term affect of judgements, fines & penalties on changing their way of doing business. Prison sentences for coporate officers seem to be the only way to achieve long lasting corporate change.

 

John

 

I agree about large corporations. I guess I want the hit big enough to get even their attention. But you might be right about it still not being enough.

[Uniall]

I just read than another Costa ship.....the Allegra.....had a small fire aboard and has lost power and is adrift off Seychelles. The fire is out but the engines aren't running.....some cargo ships are responding. This looks like an older, smaller ship with only 600+ passengers and 400+ crew. Hopefully they'll get the engines running. It doesn't sound like there was much damage but this is the last thing Costa needs right now.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27/costa-allegra-on-fire-off_n_1303972.html?ref=travel&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl15%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D138792

 

Send Schitino to lead the rescue.................:D

[glrounds]

I think Cruisemates is in the same position as Cruise Critic in terms of CCL being a large advertiser and therefore one has to question the agenda and/ or neutrality of any "reporting". IMHO.

 

What an ASSUMPTION ! ! :eek:

 

Edited February 27, 2012 by glrounds