Mugged in Rio

[NDRB]

I thought I would post this again under a more appropriate heading, on the off chance that others might find it of interest....

 

We had been to Rio 22 years before and hadn't been very favorably impressed (apart from the scenery!) and had been very much on guard for theft...

 

However, we had been picked up very efficiently by our very nice (pre-arranged online) taxi driver, we found our hotel (Excelsior Copacabana) to be very pleasant and well-situated, had a nice enough dinner at a restaurant (Bar Maxim's) immediately adjacent to the hotel (we had a wonderfully solicitous waiter who didn't speak a word of English) and were beginning to reconsider our rather negative views on Rio.

 

It was all of 7 pm- the sun had just set (the streets were filled with people) and, before getting to bed early after our long flight, we decided to quickly walk down to the water (right across the street from the hotel ) to check its temperature in the hope of spending part of the next day on the beach. There were lights on the beach and while there weren't too many people on the actual sand, it looked pretty much like a beach anywhere in the world just after sunset.

 

We were starting (somewhat apart) back up the beach from the water (we had been on the sand all of 5 minutes) when two running boys approached and yelled at us to give them our money- it was very much like a dream, as we had been fearing just such an encounter but were still in a state of total disbelief.... Frank threw his wallet far away on the ground and his shoes at one of them and began to run back up to the street, but I wasn't in a position to run away and wasn't about to give up my bag with my two cameras in it (yes, they were hidden inside)- I yelled a profanity at the other boy ( about 20 years old) and said "No" and threw my shoes at him, as I saw no evidence of a gun. He said,"No?" and tackled me to the ground and took off my watch. I was a bit concerned that he might have a knife (which he fortunately turned out not to), but I was so angry that I bit his wrist REALLY hard as he was taking off my watch- I would have punched him or kicked him, but I was wearing a long skirt and also didn't want to loosen my grip on the bag with my cameras (which I was wearing across my chest). After I bit him, he got up and ran off with just my watch.

 

Frank saw him take off with his buddy, and ran down the beach about a mile chasing after them- he thought they had taken my bag with the cameras- but wasn't able to catch up with them before they disappeared onto the street.

 

Well, once we found each other again, we spent the next two hours with the police filing a report- while we were in the little police station, SIX other (tourist- various nationalities) people came in to file robbery reports (and two very upset Italian men were with the police on the street when we were returned to our hotel- they even had their passports stolen!).

 

It is apparently a very routine racket for the boys to come down from the slums on the mountainside and attack tourists on the beach (but weapons are rarely involved). In fact, Frank went up to the hotel rooftop the next night at sunset with his binoculars and watched three similar tourist muggings take place (it only seems to go on for about two hours after dusk/sunset). Why the police don't do anything about it is beyond us- they have little kiosks in place, but the kiosks are across the four lane highway from the beach, and the police don't patrol the beach at all... @#@*#&$@#*

 

It really does make one furious! Frank thinks the police turn a blind eye to it as the kids don't seem to target locals and the local government could consider it as a kind of (freebie from the foreigners) welfare system for their poor. At any rate, we were unhurt and apart from my watch of which I was very fond, we only lost Frank's shoes, wallet, Visa card, and $40, so it could have been FAR worse.

 

So, do NOT go out on the beach at night unless you are in a group of more than four people and unless you have absolutely NOTHING of any value on you (and that means no watch and jewelry of any kind)...

 

We were very hesistant to even venture out of the hotel the next day, but we decided that we were not going to let the muggers get the better of us and did our planned tour with Leandro. We felt safe enough (taking usual precautions) touring Sugarloaf and Corcavado and walking the streets around H. Stern, but for the rest of the trip we felt VERY skittish whenever we were relatively alone (I'm not even talking about side streets or alleyways) and had a (local) man approach.

 

It was a HUGE relief to get on that ship and very cathartic to discuss our experience with other passengers. We did learn a couple of things:

 

(1) That two South African crew members had been similarly mugged in Rio- they chased down their muggers, caught them, beat them up, took them over to the police, who -GUESS WHAT- wanted to arrest the South Africans for assaulting Brazilians!!!! The crew members eventually had to bribe the police to let them go so they could get back on the boat, and the wretched police let the muggers go!

 

(2) That a woman on our cruise had her belongings stolen in broad daylight on Copacabana Beach- she had her things right next to her while she sunbathed, her husband stepped a few feet away from her side to take her picture, and a robber made off with her belongings....

 

I would be VERY careful at any time of day anywhere in Rio (women should wear bags across their chests and walk well away from the street, wear only $10 watches and no other jewelry, men should have their wallets in their front shirt pockets and put all but a few dollars in a concealed money belt or even inside their socks), but especially on the beach. (Buenos Aires has its problems, of course, but really felt like a FAR more civilized place....)

 

It would be a terrible shame not to see Rio's sights, but just don't go out with anything you wouldn't be prepared to lose....

 

Nina (who has absolutely no plans to ever return to Rio)

 

Another interesting thing- at the airport, the Brazilians only fingerprint and take pictures of AMERICANS (but only those who are not obviously pregnant, disabled, elderly, or under 12).....

[Jane110]

Nina,

 

I'm so sorry to hear your story.

 

My husband and I were mugged in Rio 12 years ago (we're street savvy NYers, who travel all over the world independently) and just hated the place and vowed to never go again. We took all the precautions and had NO jewelry - we even left the $10. watch in the hotel room - and no credit cards, no purse, nothing, just $30 in DH's pocket to buy souveniers.

 

This past Feb. we went on a cruise that started in Buenos Aires ( a great city) and finished in Rio with the ship overnighting in Rio. We were not happy about going back there, but didn't want to skip this cruise. We got a private guide from H. Stern to take us all around during the day and then hired a private guide for the evening to take us to a samba show and then had a private guide to take us to the airport the next day. We didn't have any mishaps this time, but still, knowing how crime is still so prevelant and remembering how were were mugged walking on the beach at 3:00 in the afternoon made us skiddish the whole time we were there.

 

I know that some people like Rio, but we hate it and hope to never go back.

BTW, other cities in Brasil are nothing like that. We were in Curituba, Paranagua, Florianopolis and the experience is totally different.

 

Jane

[NDRB]

Thanks for your note, Jane- yes, I think having a guide with you in Rio gives one much peace of mind. I'm glad you had no mishaps this time.

 

It's a real shame that a city with so much beauty has so many problems that could be greatly helped by having a less apathetic (and that is being very kind) police force...

 

I have little doubt that the Rio poilce department is riddled with corruption, as well. (I'm sure you heard that deaths of innocent people resulted from such accusations made against the force in early April...)

 

Nina

[Jane110]

Thanks for your note, Jane- yes, I think having a guide with you in Rio gives one much peace of mind. I'm glad you had no mishaps this time.

 

It's a real shame that a city with so much beauty has so many problems that could be greatly helped by having a less apathetic (and that is being very kind) police force...

 

I have little doubt that the Rio poilce department is riddled with corruption, as well. (I'm sure you heard that deaths of innocent people resulted from such accusations made against the force in early April...)

 

Nina

 

I have a friend who lives in a small town north of Rio and one of her daughters is in college in Rio, so though my Brazillian "connection" I hear all the stories. Unfortunately while I was in Rio, they were having a holiday here in the US. (Murphy's Law!).

[digby]

WOW! I can't imagine thinking any item I was carrying including cameras were worth more than my life! You were very lucky to leave that scene alive!

[NDRB]

<<WOW! I can't imagine thinking any item I was carrying including cameras were worth more than my life! You were very lucky to leave that scene alive!>>

 

These were a couple of petty thiefs- in retrospect we probably should have just tried to outrun them back up to the street as soon as they approached, but I don't think either of us could really believe it was happening in time to react. As it turned out, they had no weapons (the police probably would finally take a stand if these thugs began shooting and knifing tourists).

 

My cameras are very important to me (my hobby, for better or worse!) and my enjoyment of the trip would have been greatly compromised without them. Yes, I took a gamble on being knifed, but you have to understand that I didn't really feel fear but instead intense anger at some thug thinking that can come up and take from me what I have worked hard to pay for (and put a great deal of thought and time into organizing all the accessories for, etc.).

 

I can't say that I would have taken the same stand in a U.S. city (with guns as unfortunately prevalent as they are here), but I really felt that putting up somewhat of a resistance in those particular circumstances in Rio was not an inappropriate thing for me to do. I would have done a lot more than bite the guy, but I didn't want to push my luck too far. That's just me, though, and as I said, I was very angry; both of us stayed angry at these thugs for a good 10 days after that.

 

I'm just so very glad that the muggers didn't turn around and gang up on my husband as he was chasing after them down the beach. But, he felt he needed to take some sort of a stand against them, too.

 

It was a big mistake to venture onto the beach, but everything had been so pleasant that evening, and we have enjoyed pleasant strolls at dusk on so many beaches of the world without any problems...

 

Nina

[digby]

"My cameras are very important to me (my hobby, for better or worse!) and my enjoyment of the trip would have been greatly compromised without them."

 

Being shipped home in a body bag probably would have compromised your trip too! Again I say, you were very lucky.

[NDRB]

<<Being shipped home in a body bag probably would have compromised your trip too! Again I say, you were very lucky.>>

 

I can't live my life being afraid and submissive; I would have very little self-respect.

 

Life is, of course, full of calculated gambles and I am not about to let someone take advantage of me (or others- that is one of the reasons I have posted my lengthy story so that it will hopefully keep someone else from innocently wandering onto the beach at dusk) if I can help it.

 

If my husband and I could have posted warning signs ( MUGGERS ARE RAMPANT ON THIS BEACH, ESPECIALLY AT SUNSET) on the street at Copacabana Beach, we would have. Warnings are posted for undertows and box jellyfish at beaches, so why not land sharks (which is exactly what these thugs are!).

 

If I had to do it all over again, I certainly wouldn't have gone onto the beach, or least with nothing but a towel and shorts/swimsuit (earlier in the day), but I don't regret my choice to fight back and ALMOST wish I had been more aggressive.

 

Nina

[Jane110]

Nina,

 

I know that the beach muggings are more prevelant in the evening, but ours took place at 3:00PM. We had just left our friend who lived there, and was going to get some ice cream and tee shirts and were in populated areas.

[Aussie Gal]

Thanks both to you Nina and Jane for warning us and telling your stories.

 

We are certainly going to be extra careful when in Rio in January. In fact I have emailed your private guide Jane to see if he will take us to a Samba show.

 

We want to go on to the beach but we will do it during the day and will only wear our bathers and carry a towel. Hopefully we will be safe from an attack.

 

Jennie

[NDRB]

The muggers seem VERY skilled (it IS their profession, after all) at scoping one out to determine if you have anything of possible resale value. If you try to look on the verge of being homeless (either that or nearly naked so that they can see you aren't concealing anything of value), that should go a long way to ensure your safety, too, Jennie! ;)

 

I'm sure you'll be fine- it looked like it would be nice place to swim during the day, but we couldn't bring ourselves to even approach the beach after our experience...

 

Jane- did your muggers have any evident weapons? Did anyone observe your being mugged and show any interest in helping you? My husband said that initially a few people tried to help him chase after the thieves, and two American women approached me afterwards, to see if they could help.... (We had been screaming our lungs out for the conspicously absent/apathetic police!)

 

Nina

[greatam]

Nina,

 

I am so sorry for your experience. Hopefully, everyone will get the hint that the streets of Rio, anytime after about 4:00PM, ARE NOT SAFE, unless with a large group or a private guide. I posted the following when you first asked:

 

To put my post in perspective-I do not like Rio. Too dirty, too corrupt. That said, you will be generally safe going to the statue and Corcavado. On the beaches-don't walk around alone at night. In a group MAY be OK, but not just a couple. DON'T wander off the beaten path. My DH and I (he does not go with me on my business trips-this was vacation) were in Rio 3 years ago together and he had to pee. We were at the Sunday "Hippie Fair". Couldn't find anyplace, so he said let's just go a couple of streets over and he would find an alley. One block off the beaten path and we both KNEW we were someplace we shouldn't be. Turned around and sure enough, there were about four or 5 guys following. Pushed right through them and went into a restaurant we spotted, paid for food we did not eat, so he could use the john. Don't want to even think about what would have happened if we would have kept going.

 

You are very lucky. The police will do NOTHING about muggings anytime in the forseeable future. It is the way it is in a lot of South America and Mexico.

 

About the photos and fingerprints-The US instituted that policy for foreigners, so it is tit for tat in Brazil. Don't you remember seeing the picture of the American Airlines pilot flipping the finger for his picture??? He was "detained" until AA got him "undetained". I flew with him to Santiago in February and the stories he told were great. The Brazilians were NOT nice to him.

 

Thank goodness, you are home safe. You were very well prepared, as I remember. For the average American tourist, Rio can definitely be a

nightmare. I think that is one reason the cruise lines prefer hiding everyone out at the Sheraton. Off the beaten path, with ARMED security guards on the beach.

[NDRB]

<<I think that is one reason the cruise lines prefer hiding everyone out at the Sheraton. Off the beaten path, with ARMED security guards on the beach.>>

 

Those armed guards certainly have tremendous appeal now, with 50/50 hindsight!!! At the time, though, it sounded as though the area surrounding the Sheraton was less safe than Copacabana and as we wanted to be able to get out some, that was a concern... OH WELL!!!!

 

I think I would still advise people to try to outrun muggers if at all possible in any way possible (and make a big, loud scene as you're doing it) back to more crowded area (as you essentially did!). I haven't heard of any weapons being involved in any of the confrontations- I do think the police might have to finally have do something about the problem if there were....

 

Nina

[dolliesny]

This is very interesting to us as Hubby wants to visit Rio on perhaps one of our next cruise experiences. Does anyone have any info about this during Carnivale? Does it just get worse?

Thanks,Valerie

[greatam]

Carnivale last year was especially dangerous. Something like 87 people were seriously hurt, 3 killed, and 1000's mugged. I will try to post a link to the article when I find it. The line between rich and poor in South America and Mexico is becoming more intense all the time. And the poor are striking back, by mugging, killing, etc.

 

Unless you are going on a cruise, where you will be well protected by the cruise line excursions, I would forget about Rio at Carnivale time. Have a group of friends that went 2-3 years ago. They spent very large dollars (seems to me about $10,000 for one of the boxes at the Sambadrome). They also hired private guards (guides) to escort them around Rio and they still had a briefcase stolen, while they were waiting at the airport.

 

As beautiful as Rio is, IT is NOT a safe city for foreigners. Please be VERY careful, if you go.

[Jane110]

This is very interesting to us as Hubby wants to visit Rio on perhaps one of our next cruise experiences. Does anyone have any info about this during Carnivale? Does it just get worse?

Thanks,Valerie

 

Valerie,

 

Take a dangerous city. Now add a festival where thousands of poor people are gathering in a small space and drinking all night for days and days.

Don't you think it gets worse?

 

Our ship got into Rio this past February just a few days after Carnivale was finished, thank goodness.

However, we were in Brazil during Carnival and we did get to enjoy it in small towns. That was fabulous. We went to the Carnival parade in Morretes when our ship docked in Paranagua and had a fabulous time.

 

Jane

[NDRB]

< The line between rich and poor in South America and Mexico is becoming more intense all the time. And the poor are striking back, by mugging, killing, etc.>>

 

This is very true- the Holland America ship lecturer was quite the expert on Central and South America, and he told us (as we were having a drink one night) that he felt it is only a question of time before the locals in certain areas down there begin to hold up entire tour buses on a regular basis.

 

While sticking with a larger group of fellow tourists definitely offers much more protection, it may not be a "foolproof" way to go for much longer...

 

Nina

[Blackrobe]

We were in Rio in January on a Princess tour prior to cruising around Cape Horn. We were booked into the Rio Sheraton. The night before we arrived there was a murder on the street just off the Sheraton property.

 

We were waiting for the tram at Corcovado and one of our group wanted to step out of the building onto the street where there were numerous street vendors. Our guides told her not to leave the building as it was not safe. Virtually everyone in Rio was frank in stating that visitors should not venture out either on their own or even in small groups.

I have traveled to a lot of places. I can tell you that I felt much safer in Cartegena, Columbia, among the most aggressive street vendors in the world, than I did in Rio. Rio was the place that I felt at the most risk and only the second place where I had true concern for my safety (the other being Casablanca).

 

Been there, done that, don't need to return!

[lwnbwlr]

I'm sorry about your bad experiences in Rio but let me give you a different report. My wife and I (in our mid-sixties) spent six days in Rio prior to our HAL cruise so So. America and Antarctica last December. We stayed at the Marina Palace Hotel on the beach in Leblon.

 

While we had a private guide show us around, we also had plenty of free time

to do some serious walking and shopping. In the evening, we both took cabs and walked to our restaurants. In all this time we never felt threatened or intimidated in any way. We never even saw someone who could be characterized as a "street person".

 

We, of course, dressed down and didn't go into unknown areas or places where we were likely to be alone. Perhaps we were lucky but we thoroughly enjoyed Rio and the surrounding area.

[RMS Olympic]

I will be in Rio for 3 days/ nights using the ship as my hotel. I am planning a lot of activities during the day...is is safe during the day and just dangerous at night?

My big excitiement is the hang gliding in Rio...would this be dangerous from a mugging perspective?

[Flaken2]

Will be in Rio January 2006. I'm 79 and my traveling companion is a strong 47. Had trouble with a mugger in Casablanca and am concerned about how to safely enjoy my time there. Suggestions most welcome.

[Jane110]

I'm sorry about your bad experiences in Rio but let me give you a different report. My wife and I (in our mid-sixties) spent six days in Rio prior to our HAL cruise so So. America and Antarctica last December. We stayed at the Marina Palace Hotel on the beach in Leblon.

 

While we had a private guide show us around, we also had plenty of free time

to do some serious walking and shopping. In the evening, we both took cabs and walked to our restaurants. In all this time we never felt threatened or intimidated in any way. We never even saw someone who could be characterized as a "street person".

 

We, of course, dressed down and didn't go into unknown areas or places where we were likely to be alone. Perhaps we were lucky but we thoroughly enjoyed Rio and the surrounding area.

 

Leblon is alot less touristy than Copacapana and Ipanema, so there is less crime against tourists there.

[Jane110]

Will be in Rio January 2006. I'm 79 and my traveling companion is a strong 47. Had trouble with a mugger in Casablanca and am concerned about how to safely enjoy my time there. Suggestions most welcome.

 

Stick w/ a guide and you'll have no problems.

 

I've used Pedro Novak at http://www.privatetours.com.br

Pedro (aka Peter) is terrific.

 

And I've used the private guide services of H. Stern Jewelers. However, unless you think you'll probably buy some jewelry, I wouldn't do that.

[Jane110]

I will be in Rio for 3 days/ nights using the ship as my hotel. I am planning a lot of activities during the day...is is safe during the day and just dangerous at night?

My big excitiement is the hang gliding in Rio...would this be dangerous from a mugging perspective?

 

We were mugged at 3:00 in the afternoon walking along the beach in Copacabana. We dressed down, wore no jewelry and DH didn't even have his wallet on him, just $30. in his front pant pocket.

 

I don't think they'll be able to get you hand-gliding......but where will you finish up? Isn't the handgliding done on LeBlon beach? If so, it's better than Copacabana or Ipanema.

[Flaken2]

Thanks, Jane 110. Was in Rio 1977 and had no problem. Your private guide address is most welcome.