Charters and Groups

[uncialman]

Well, uncialman, you previously did post your group name- I just found it quickly searching your posts, so it is there for anyone to read. How unfair for you to fill HAL ships with large groups, post here on the HAL board about your success in doing so, yet refuse to identify your affiliation knowing fellow posters might not find it so pleasant if your groups are on their cruise.

 

Honestly peaches, this is kind of silly as HAL is agressively pursuing large groups, is creating the market for them to flourish, and is somewhat financially dependent upon those groups sailing with them. HAL's latest travel agent shows have had nothing but an emphasis on groups and how to create them so I *really* wouldn't be complaining to those of us that are making a living at what HAL is attempting to foster (Celebrity as well has sent out a packet to every agency on how to create large groups).

 

Secondly, what you might *think* was me stating what my group was just me referring to one that I know the size of and know sails on an annual basis. If I *did* mention my group, I sure didn't see it and would strike myself with 30 lashes for doing so and putting me under the watchful eye of ... well, I've probably said too much as it is.

 

Plainly stated, there are more massive groups sailing HAL, Carnivore, Princess, Celebrity, RCI, -whatever cruiseline- than you could possibly count. It's big business and good business and, suprisingly enough, you most often won't ever truly realize that they are on the ship with you.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Oceanwench

We do not play Bingo - but we heard others complaining.

We did not have to go to the port and shopping talks as we have been to all of those ports many, many times.

But we heard a lot of people complaining about movies not always being shown on sea days (like they were used to on other ships) - we have never gone to a movie on a cruise ship. Because activities were being held in the Queen's Lounge on sea days, the usual showing of 4 movies per day did not happen.

 

[peaches from georgia]

Honestly peaches, this is kind of silly as HAL is agressively pursuing large groups, is creating the market for them to flourish, and is somewhat financially dependent upon those groups sailing with them.......

So what is your point? We all know the cruiselines are pursuing large groups and why. What is so amusing is that you brag about your large groups, but won't say what they are or when. Interesting. But, I'm sure there are a number of posters right here on this board who will remember previous discussions about your groups.

[uncialman]

So what is your point? We all know the cruiselines are pursuing large groups and why. What is so amusing is that you brag about your large groups, but won't say what they are or when. Interesting. But, I'm sure there are a number of posters right here on this board who will remember previous discussions about your groups.

 

Peaches, I really don't want to turn this into a adverserial thread with the two of us going after one another...

 

I don't believe that I have 'bragged' about large groups or whatever - I simply state my position and the factors that lead me to some of my convictions and feelings about cruising. Sure, I have made comments about my groups and even there size, but the mentioning of the groups was only in the context and flow of the conversation.

 

As I stated before in my second post on this thread, I really *wish* that I could share some of the information that I have on my groups (What ships the groups are on etc). Unfortunately, I had agreed to be able to post only if I do so anonymously and in doing so I could express my views and opinions. By directing everyone to my website I would certainly break that agreement (Again, Revneal, if you are out there- please back me up on this). In truth, I wish I had the ability to PM you right now and explain the whole mess to you but this forum doesn't allow or give us the ability to do so.

 

I had, a couple of years in the past, let folks on the board know what groups I had sailing on HAL and when. However, I ended up getting in a truckload of trouble for doing so.

 

I really, really hope you understand...

[peaches from georgia]

Nor do I, uncialman. I understand perfectly. You have been on many adversarial threads about this same topic before. I just read one in fact.

 

I wouldn't want to identify myself either and be greeted by CC HAL cruisers when they get on their ships and realize your groups are there. I'm just glad we took our 'northern' summer cruise last year and not this.

 

Happy cruising! :)

[kryos]

Honestly peaches, this is kind of silly as HAL is agressively pursuing large groups, is creating the market for them to flourish, and is somewhat financially dependent upon those groups sailing with them. HAL's latest travel agent shows have had nothing but an emphasis on groups and how to create them so I *really* wouldn't be complaining to those of us that are making a living at what HAL is attempting to foster (Celebrity as well has sent out a packet to every agency on how to create large groups).

I hate to say it, but uncialman is right. I've been investigating travel agency franchises lately, and attending some conference calls about them ... and groups are where the money is ... for both the agent and for the cruiselines. The cruiselines love 'em. The agents love 'em. Group blocks and charters are simply not going to go away. Think about it. HAL can sell you one cabin ... albeit maybe a very expensive one. Or, they can sell a block of 100 cabins to a company hosting a group trip. An agent can book a customer in one cabin, or he can do a bit more work and book 50 separate customers in a group block of cabins. Does maybe 10 to 15% more work for the group and makes about 50 times the profit? Now, which are you gonna do if you're a cruise line ... or an agent?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Do what I generally do. If you really want to make almost 100% sure that you don't wind up with a big group on your sailing, book a 10-day or longer cruise. The groups generally steer clear of them. The seven-dayers are the ones groups flock to and often you will have not one, but often several groups traveling on your sailing. If the groups are small, no problem. But if they are particularly huge, you can bet they will most definitely impact your cruise experience since they will take over some of the lounges for special events, possibly one of the pools on a sea day ... leaving the individual travelers scrambling to find another place to use when their favorite lounge is closed for a "private function." Worst still, the seven-dayers are always subject to being converted to charters if a group sail really takes off with bookings. Imagine being set for that wonderful Caribbean vacation only to get a phone call from your travel agent a month out telling you the entire ship has been chartered and you're not going to be able to sail.

 

No, I'll stick with the longer cruises for the most part.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[peaches from georgia]

Kryos, we all understand that uncialman is correct as to the benefit to the cruiselines of booking large groups. Of course the cruiselines and booking agents love groups. It's the other pax on the ships that suffer.

 

I and others just the other day posted that 10 day or longer cruises are the only way to go.

[bepsf]

Uncialman--

 

 

I can certainly empathize w/ your request for anonymity and therefore inability to disclose the groups that you've booked.

 

However the stated goal of this thread from the very beginning was a forum to share information about groups and charters that we were aware of so that others could join or steer away depending on their individual choice. Furthermore, the OP clearly requested a couple hours before your post that we not use this thread as an opportunity to debate the pros and cons of groups and charters.

 

Since you clearly did not wish to share any relevant information with the group, it would have been more appropriate for you not to have posted to this thread at all.

:(

 

Perhaps you would be willing to initiate another thread discussing how the cruiselines in general are encouraging group sales and charters? I personally find the subject interesting, and if we can keep from getting into a pro-con debate, perhaps others would find it informative as well?

Here's the list that I have down - I hope I'm correct (Oh where is our List-Lady, Ziggy when we need her???)

06/25/05 Zuiderdam Oldies Radio – Group

 

06/30/05 – Westerdam – Trekkies and Geeks - Groups

 

07/02/05 Oosterdam Christian Singles - Group

07/10/05 Amsterdam Templeton Tours - Group

08/13/05 Oosterdam God of Israel - Group

08/21/05 Amsterdam Living the New Life Ministries - Charter

09/03/05 Oosterdam RSVP - Charter

10/29/05 Oosterdam Olivia - Charter

11/27/05 Ryndam Leisure World - Charter

12/11/05 Westerdam Single Seniors – Group

 

01/08/05 Westerdam Blues Cruise

01/29/06 Westerdam Olivia - Charter

02/05/06 Westerdam CCN - Charter

02/26/06 Westerdam RSVP – Charter

03/04/06 Westerdam RSVP – Charter

 

06/25/05 Zuiderdam Oldies Radio - Group

[csg99]

Uncialman--

 

Since you clearly did not wish to share any relevant information with the group, it would have been more appropriate for you not to have posted to this thread at all.

:(

 

 

 

 

 

Perfectly stated, Brian!

[Esme]

I started to make a list of group cruises that I found on the web and it's just too long to print, so will give you the URL. It may be deleted, but so be it.

 

http://www.inspirationcruises.com/Flash/flash.html

 

I remember this group being mentioned on this board last year, so I put it in my Favourites, to check each time we made a booking to make sure we did not book a cruise when these various groups would be on board. Small groups are fine, but large groups that tend to take over all the public rooms, is not to our liking so we avoid them.

[uncialman]

Nor do I, uncialman. I understand perfectly. You have been on many adversarial threads about this same topic before. I just read one in fact.

 

I wouldn't want to identify myself either and be greeted by CC HAL cruisers when they get on their ships and realize your groups are there. I'm just glad we took our 'northern' summer cruise last year and not this.

 

Happy cruising! :)

 

Like I said previously, there are groups on *every* cruise: its just a case of whether they are noticable or not.

 

Everyone has had their fare share of "adversaries" on these boards and in many cases surrounding the same issues over and over again (as those are the ones that are of particular interest to them)

[uncialman]

Uncialman--

 

 

I can certainly empathize w/ your request for anonymity and therefore inability to disclose the groups that you've booked.

 

However the stated goal of this thread from the very beginning was a forum to share information about groups and charters that we were aware of so that others could join or steer away depending on their individual choice. Furthermore, the OP clearly requested a couple hours before your post that we not use this thread as an opportunity to debate the pros and cons of groups and charters.

 

Since you clearly did not wish to share any relevant information with the group, it would have been more appropriate for you not to have posted to this thread at all.

:(

 

Perhaps you would be willing to initiate another thread discussing how the cruiselines in general are encouraging group sales and charters? I personally find the subject interesting, and if we can keep from getting into a pro-con debate, perhaps others would find it informative as well?]

 

Thanks for your balanced post Brian. Again, my intentions in the original post were to state that *every* cruise that you take will have some amount of group business aboard from 10% up to 90%. And while groups can be large at times, they are composed of individuals that have their own interests or whatever. I have had a large group of evangelicals onboard a ship at the same time that there was a group that advocated an alternative lifestyle and everyone got along swimmingly - just as it should be with an enormous amount of tolerance on all sides.

 

You are probably correct - I shouldn't have posted on this thread. My *wanting to post* about the groups wasn't something that I should have shared (as I did in the past). Please again understand that I would like to give fair warning about future sailings but was accused of hurting the sales (among other accusations) of a future cruise back a few years ago. So, to be very honest, HAL would prefer if I not state such things anymore and if I continue to post on Cruise Critic to do so anonymously.

 

This being said - all of you need to realize that the 12 or 13 of us on this thread would never be able to list all the groups that are currently booked on HAL for the next calander year; you haven't even scratched the surface. There are literally hundreds of groups booked from all sorts of different agencies. I also must wonder, "why hasn't anyone listed the Cruise Critic group sailings?" Or is it just groups that we aren't a part of that we want to avoid?

 

On the positive side of things, you might want to suggest to HAL to have a *no groups allowed* cruise at sometime during 2007 during one of their off weeks and see how it sells.

 

Just trying to help...

 

ps: I love you HAL. I love you, love you, love you ;)

[bookworm0911]

I started to make a list of group cruises that I found on the web and it's just too long to print, so will give you the URL. It may be deleted, but so be it.

 

http://www.inspirationcruises.com/Flash/flash.html

 

I remember this group being mentioned on this board last year, so I put it in my Favourites, to check each time we made a booking to make sure we did not book a cruise when these various groups would be on board. Small groups are fine, but large groups that tend to take over all the public rooms, is not to our liking so we avoid them.

 

Thank you, Esme. You have done us all a great favor. It is now bookmarked on my computer. These are not large groups that I would choose to cruise with. :eek:

[oliviaonthe beach]

Please add: Calvary Revival Church on Zuiderdam 7/23.

[ekerr19]

I don't believe that I have 'bragged' about large groups or whatever - I simply state my position and the factors that lead me to some of my convictions and feelings about cruising. Sure, I have made comments about my groups and even there size, but the mentioning of the groups was only in the context and flow of the conversation.

I really, really hope you understand...

 

Actually - I don't understand. Every time this topic comes up, you post the same "vague" information - why post at all if you are not going to reveal anything of significance???

 

You continually say "you can't" - so why bother? It's not only a bit irritating but somewhat "braggart" as well, imo.

 

This forum is about "sharing" - if you can't "share" for whatever reason, simply don't post.

[ekerr19]

I hate to say it, but uncialman is right. I've been investigating travel agency franchises lately, and attending some conference calls about them ... and groups are where the money is ... for both the agent and for the cruiselines. The cruiselines love 'em. The agents love 'em. Group blocks and charters are simply not going to go away.

--rita

 

rita - No one is arguing this fact - and it has been this way for quite a long time. :)

 

In my mind, it is the regular "joe HAL passenger" who suffers - not to deflect from any group, but many HAL pax have been loyal a lot longer than some of these groups, who will go with the best "value for the dollar" offer they receive. :)

 

Imo, HAL is doing a great disservice to its loyal and regular passenger base by trying to "play stupid" (for lack of a better phrase) when it comes to some of these group cruises. At least have the decency to "call it like it is" - the revenue seems to be the bottom line with any vendor now days - so why not just say so.

 

For HAL to presume otherwise, merely insinuates that we regulars are just stupid.

[ekerr19]

Uncialman--

Since you clearly did not wish to share any relevant information with the group, it would have been more appropriate for you not to have posted to this thread at all.

:(

 

Brian - I saw this after I posted and you said it perfectly, my thoughts exactly!!!

 

Though Uncialman has done this more than a few times, I am glad I am not the only one bothered by the "I know it all - but can't tell you anything attitude" - puleez, let's get real - the rest of us didn't just fall of the "I've never traveled turnip truck" lol... :D

[uncialman]

Brian - I saw this after I posted and you said it perfectly, my thoughts exactly!!!

 

Though Uncialman has done this more than a few times, I am glad I am not the only one bothered by the "I know it all - but can't tell you anything attitude" - puleez, let's get real - the rest of us didn't just fall of the "I've never traveled turnip truck" lol... :D

 

ekerr19:

 

It appears that you only have the ability to argue your position in an ad hominem fashion rather than making a case for the merits of your position which is truly sad. Rather than to try and cast motives on my posts, try taking them at face value for the veracity that they have all contained.

 

I have "gotten real" in the past and enjoyed posting here prior to having to change my nick and post anonymously (A suggestion, btw, of Revneal that HAL agreed to).

 

Lastly, as I had mentioned previously, why hasn't anyone listed the Cruise Critic groups in this thread? Why are they not considered a horrific threat to the enjoyment of your cruise experience? It seems instead that we are only listing groups that are based upon religious convictions, sexual preference, political affiliation and music preference.

 

Lastly, rather than insulting HAL for their group business, have you considered what HAL's current economic status would be without these groups (especially since every other cruiseline in the world is vying for their business?)? Do you require hotels and resorts to inform you of their group and convention business before you book a room at their hotel or do you accuse them as well for 'playing stupid' with you?

[trubey]

Lastly, as I had mentioned previously, why hasn't anyone listed the Cruise Critic groups in this thread?

That was a good idea and I'll do it with my next post.

 

I did request that we keep this thread to the facts, just the facts. Will you please start your own thread for discussing groups and charters? Otherwise, I'll just post this information on my own website. Who wants to wade through a bunch of idle chatter when looking for plain old facts.

 

susan.

[trubey]

10/07/06 Zaandam——Cruise Critics——est. 50 to 100 people

10/29/06 Westerdam——Cruise Critics——est. 50 to 100 people

[peaches from georgia]

Quote from Uncialman: .....why hasn't anyone listed the Cruise Critic groups in this thread? Why are they not considered a horrific threat to the enjoyment of your cruise experience? It seems instead that we are only listing groups that are based upon religious convictions, sexual preference, political affiliation and music preference.

 

 

 

Very clever to pull the 'discrimination' rabbit out of your hat, but it is a matter of the size and amount of activities of the group, and you know that.

 

CC cruises on HAL will involve a small # of people, certainly on the very low side of the 50-100 estimate, and probably not even that. CCers have no subject of interest or study that brings them to activities on the ship other than meeting at the beginning of the cruise (possibly even on an aft balcony) and seeing each other on occasion.

 

This is a far cry from hundreds of people together for daily meetings and lectures, reserving public rooms such as the Vista Lounge, Queens Lounge and most of the smaller rooms, special events taking over the Lido or aft pools areas, reserving the Pinnacle for private use, and even one or two seatings in the dining room being taken for the group, not to even mention the lounges at night.

[Travel57]

The Nov. 5, 2005 sailing of the Oosterdam is a charter. The Dave Koz Friends at Sea Jazz cruise.

[kryos]

Kryos, we all understand that uncialman is correct as to the benefit to the cruiselines of booking large groups. Of course the cruiselines and booking agents love groups. It's the other pax on the ships that suffer.

 

I and others just the other day posted that 10 day or longer cruises are the only way to go.

It is a shame, though, that the cruiselines are not forced to disclose the identities of large groups (say over a certain percentage of the sailing capacity of a given ship) to other passengers on that sailing. While some groups ... even if large ... don't affect a sailing very much, others most definitely do. Let's face it, if you have a large spring break crowd from a certain college onboard, they're definitely gonna impact the cruise experience of other passengers.

 

But the way the cruiselines do it now ... it is very difficult to find out when some groups have taken over a ship. It would suck to get onboard only to find out that if you wish to use the pool on a sea day, you're gonna have to put up with a bunch of screaming, cavoting, oftentimes drunk and vulgar college kids. Could definitely turn a family's dream vacation into an absolute nightmare.

 

While I wholeheartedly understand the cruiseline's desire to book groups, I think there should be some sort of regulation requiring disclosure of this information to individually booked passengers ... so that those vacationers can feel free to switch their sailing if they don't think they can deal with the particular "group."

 

Blue skies,

 

--rita

[kryos]

I have had a large group of evangelicals onboard a ship at the same time that there was a group that advocated an alternative lifestyle and everyone got along swimmingly - just as it should be with an enormous amount of tolerance on all sides.

Oh, boy ... you do like to live on the edge, don't you? :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Plainly stated, there are more massive groups sailing HAL, Carnivore, Princess, Celebrity, RCI, -whatever cruiseline- than you could possibly count. It's big business and good business and, suprisingly enough, you most often won't ever truly realize that they are on the ship with you.

Well, whether or not people will realize the groups are sailing with them depends on the nature of the group, doesn't it? Let's face it, there is a big difference between a group of Christians who maybe take over one of the lounges sea day afternoons for worship events and a spring break crowd who literally dominate the entire ship and every one of its facilities.

 

This is why I think the cruiselines should have to disclose the identity of any group comprised of a number in excess of say 20% of the ship's sailing capacity.

 

As for the cruise critic group sailings you mentioned in another post ... those would be so relatively small as to have no impact whatsoever on other passengers. What facilities would we "hog?" Maybe a lounge for a couple of hours for a "welcome aboard cocktail party?" ... the ship has loads of lounges for the other passengers to use ... maybe a certain seating time one night in the Pinnacle for our group? ... there are other seating times the other passengers can enjoy that particular evening. Our cruise critic groups, for the most part, are not even what one would consider a "group." We are so small in comparison to the size of the ships we have booked that our presence would be barely felt by the other passengers.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita