Charters and Groups

[Bill S]

I found another group cruise on HAL in my college fraternity magazine tonight: Oct 13-24, 2005 Adriatic/Med cruise on the Rotterdam. It is an "ignuagural interfraternal" cruise. It looks like it is being promoted to 27 "Greek" organizations. See www.intrav.com/greek

I would imagine that because the cruise is during a normal college term, most cruisers would be alums and families, not undergrads.

[kryos]

found another group cruise on HAL in my college fraternity magazine tonight: Oct 13-24, 2005 Adriatic/Med cruise on the Rotterdam. It is an "ignuagural interfraternal" cruise. It looks like it is being promoted to 27 "Greek" organizations.

Hope it's not a "Greek Picnic" type of affair, like we have here in Philly once a year. They had so many problems with it in past years ... public drunkeness, fights, etc. ... but in the past couple of years, the city has managed to get better control over the festivities and it hasn't been too bad.

 

But, I can only imagine this cruise turning into a "Greek Picnic at Sea." If that's what it is, I would hope it turns into a full ship charter. I would hate to be a family traveler stuck in that type of environment for a week. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Of course the 7 day cruises would be more popular for groups, probably 1000 to 1. What I meant was that if you were thinking of groups choosing a destination for a cruise, sun and tropical islands come to mind first and then Alaska would be an attraction nowadays, both of which are mainly 7 day cruises. I just was surprised to see these types of group cruises in Canada and NEngland, though I myself love that area. I bet most of the CC cruisers who have booked these Canada/NEngland cruises were not thinking what large groups might be on the Maasdam when they booked

And, I hate to say it, but that Women of Faith is one HUGE organization. If I were booked on that cruise I would be very concerned about the ship being taken over as a charter for that group. Several of the group cruises run by that particular Christian travel organization look like they could become whole ship charters ... such as Gaither, Chuck Swindoll, etc. These folks are pretty big in Christian circles ... and some of the pastors, such as Swindoll and Adrain Rogers, have nationwide radio ministries that are listened to by thousands of people. They also sell tapes and CDs of their daily teachings. Even if they are not "advertising" their cruises during their daily broadcasts (something I would doubt they would do), all they have to do is send out a cruise promo packet with all those tape and CD orders ... well, I would not be surprised if they could easily fill a boat. And, that Women of Faith organization routinely fills entire football stadiums for their two-day conferences in cities all over this country. I can well imagine them filling a HAL ship too.

 

Yeah, my concern wouldn't be sailing with these folks. I think for the most part they are easy to live with. My concern would be more along the lines of getting bounced off my sailing because the group morphed into a whole ship charter. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[uncialman]

Uncialman - I give you credit for at least coming back and addressing some of these issues - however, I (and many others I know) prefer 2nd seating for dinner, so how does "first dining" constitute "dead space?" in lounges,etc.???

 

Since I am NOT an early riser, I personally don't care about "early morning space", but I do know folks who are still up at 5:00am, even on a cruise. :)

 

Also, as I only cruise HAL, I'm not sure I really care what other lines do and don't do... just my thoughts

 

Thanks for the kind reply ekerr19.

 

When dealing with a group that is in excess of 200 passengers, the only space that truly works for the group will be the forward show lounge (on most HAL ships this room is referred to as the Vista lounge - other Ruebens etc) as the capacity of this lounge is usually in the 500+ range. Simply stated, almost every other room would not be able to handle the capacity.

 

Contrary to many statements that have been made by others, HAL *will not* allow a group (unless it is a charter) to cancel any of it's revenue generating events such as bingo or whatever. HAL will also not displace port talks, big shows etc. So, the forward show lounge is booked early in the morning (anywhere from 7am - 9am on non-port days, and after arrival and disembarkation by port or tender during port days) and then is booked during first dining (as HAL never schedules any events in the forward showlounge during this time) for an hour or so to accommodate large groups.

 

This is pretty much the run of the mill schedule that both my organization and Inspiration Cruises use to manage their groups.

[Oceanwench]

So revenue-generating activities are not closed down for large groups, but other activities are? I have heard of pools closed off for the exclusive use of some groups.

As KK stated, the spiritual film festival closed down the Vista Lounge most of the day -- events were moved to the Queen's Lounge or elsewhere.

[uncialman]

So revenue-generating activities are not closed down for large groups, but other activities are? I have heard of pools closed off for the exclusive use of some groups.

As KK stated, the spiritual film festival closed down the Vista Lounge most of the day -- events were moved to the Queen's Lounge or elsewhere.

 

Major activities such as Bingo, Horse Racing and for the most part movies in the Wajang would not be closed down (as truly large groups would not be able to fit in the Wajang or Queens). There is, however, a tremendous amount of "downtime" in the Vista Lounge during some days that will allow for additional activities.

 

As far as pools go, sailaway parties at ports are really the only time that you will have something like this occur and the groups that will pay for this option are almost never Christian groups but are sales incentive groups or corporations taking their employees on a reward cruise. Sailaway parties cost a pretty penny in alcohol and food and the religious groups are usually not *into* that sort of scene.

 

In the case of a full ship charter, groups can choose to do whatever they want and will almost always exclude any outside patrons from being able to book onto that particular sailing. Full ship charters can take the option to close the bars, casinos, and even determine what itinerary they would like to sail for the duration of the charter. In this case, no other outside passenger would be impacted as they wouldn't even have the abiblity to book on in the first place.

[kryos]

Full ship charters can take the option to close the bars, casinos, and even determine what itinerary they would like to sail for the duration of the charter. In this case, no other outside passenger would be impacted as they wouldn't even have the abiblity to book on in the first place.

Another Christian travel agency (who I will not name) does exactly that. They specialize in full ship charters ... throw off all the ship's entertainers and bring their own (Christian groups), close the bars and the casino, and basically customize the sailing for their own preferences ... including setting their own DRESS CODE! :) Imagine that! No formal nights! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[uncialman]

Another Christian travel agency (who I will not name) does exactly that. They specialize in full ship charters ... throw off all the ship's entertainers and bring their own (Christian groups), close the bars and the casino, and basically customize the sailing for their own preferences ... including setting their own DRESS CODE! :) Imagine that! No formal nights! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

To be truthful, a lot of the folks go right ahead and book straight with HAL and do exactly the same thing (Christian and Non-Christian). Christian agencies such as Inspiration, Sovereign Cruises, Templeton etc. will go out of their way to help those that want to charter their own ship. For clarification, It should be noted that no other passengers will be on the ship during the time of the charter. To do such things as closing bars, casinos, and bringing on their own entertainment (which I do quite often) a good amount of money must be paid.

[kryos]

To be truthful, a lot of the folks go right ahead and book straight with HAL and do exactly the same thing (Christian and Non-Christian). Christian agencies such as Inspiration, Sovereign Cruises, Templeton etc. will go out of their way to help those that want to charter their own ship. For clarification, It should be noted that no other passengers will be on the ship during the time of the charter. To do such things as closing bars, casinos, and bringing on their own entertainment (which I do quite often) a good amount of money must be paid.

I wonder if the chartering organizations have to pay those entertainers, bartenders, casino personnel, etc., for the week even though their services are not gonna be required?

 

Yeah, I realize no other passengers can be on the ship during a charter. The only way they can sail is to book with the chartering organization and pay their prices. I also find that most special interest charters ... and even groups on regular sailings ... pay a premium price for the cruise ... because of the inclusion of all the special programming.

 

I attended a writer's conference at sea last March. I paid more for that cruise (ten days Panama Canal ... a anomoly of a group on a ten-day itinerary) than I paid for a 15-day Hawaii itinerary on Princess this past April. I also had a stateroom to myself on Princess, and had to do a share on the group cruise. I still paid more for the group cruise. I think most groups, and probably charters too, are that way.

 

Someone's gotta pay for all those free cabins the group's leaders and lecturers/entertainers get. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[uncialman]

I wonder if the chartering organizations have to pay those entertainers, bartenders, casino personnel, etc., for the week even though their services are not gonna be required?

 

Yeah, I realize no other passengers can be on the ship during a charter. The only way they can sail is to book with the chartering organization and pay their prices. I also find that most special interest charters ... and even groups on regular sailings ... pay a premium price for the cruise ... because of the inclusion of all the special programming.

 

I attended a writer's conference at sea last March. I paid more for that cruise (ten days Panama Canal ... a anomoly of a group on a ten-day itinerary) than I paid for a 15-day Hawaii itinerary on Princess this past April. I also had a stateroom to myself on Princess, and had to do a share on the group cruise. I still paid more for the group cruise. I think most groups, and probably charters too, are that way.

 

Someone's gotta pay for all those free cabins the group's leaders and lecturers/entertainers get. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

You betcha - any ship personel that will not be used still needs to be paid for as they are all contracted employees. The amount of money needed to shut down entertainment, bars and casinos can reach seven figures.

 

Your average top entertainer (Christian or secular) is going to command an honorarium or fee of around 10K to 30K for a week cruise plus the availability of a suite. TC counts (free cabins or the monetary equivalent) can be negotiated at the time of securing the charter contract. Fees are usually placed on the pax enrollment and will be anywhere from $50 to $500 depending on the agency (some agencies really clean up and do next to nothing to help their groups while onboard). Much of the money is used for marketing prior to the sailing as well as airline fees, expenses for the speakers, t-shirts and promotional items, gifts for all the cruisers, airline tickets for entertainers and VIPs etc.

[xpcdoojk]

ah, now we know the real secret, another triangle clicker, see I knew he could make me walk the plank...:(

 

jc

[cruiseco]

TC counts (free cabins or the monetary equivalent) can be negotiated at the time of securing the charter contract. .

 

 

There's a couple of ways that a ship can be chartered. The first is by a travel agency that will in turn market the sailing around a theme or other special event. The charter contract will be between the agency and the cruise line. The Olivia and RSVP charters are this way. The cabins will be sold in ones and twos just like any other sailing.

 

The second is if the ship is chartered by one entity such as a corporation doing an event for employees. This is the type I have done in the past. In this case the contract is usually solely between the organization and the cruise line with the agency that will be handling the cruise not being liable for the charter cost if there's a problem.

 

Either way, the contract will be for a total lump sum fare. It won't be broken down with a cost per cabin category, single or double occupancy etc. There also won't be any provision for TC's as the chartering entity -- the agency or corporation or organization can give them ALL away for free if they like. The cruise line couldn't care less as long as the full charter cost is paid on time.

[uncialman]

There's a couple of ways that a ship can be chartered. The first is by a travel agency that will in turn market the sailing around a theme or other special event. The charter contract will be between the agency and the cruise line. The Olivia and RSVP charters are this way. The cabins will be sold in ones and twos just like any other sailing.

 

The second is if the ship is chartered by one entity such as a corporation doing an event for employees. This is the type I have done in the past. In this case the contract is usually solely between the organization and the cruise line with the agency that will be handling the cruise not being liable for the charter cost if there's a problem.

 

Either way, the contract will be for a total lump sum fare. It won't be broken down with a cost per cabin category, single or double occupancy etc. There also won't be any provision for TC's as the chartering entity -- the agency or corporation or organization can give them ALL away for free if they like. The cruise line couldn't care less as long as the full charter cost is paid on time.

 

Bingo- great post cruiseco...

 

I have only done your #2 once in the past with the majority of my sailings being with religious groups that need our assistance in marketing etc.

[ekerr19]

Major activities such as Bingo, Horse Racing and for the most part movies in the Wajang would not be closed down (as truly large groups would not be able to fit in the Wajang or Queens).

 

I have not seen "horse racing" on HAL for about 5-6 years, lol!!! And even then, it was also by the Lido pool on sea days...

[iuki]

Uncialman--

 

 

I can certainly empathize w/ your request for anonymity and therefore inability to disclose the groups that you've booked.

 

However the stated goal of this thread from the very beginning was a forum to share information about groups and charters that we were aware of so that others could join or steer away depending on their individual choice. Furthermore, the OP clearly requested a couple hours before your post that we not use this thread as an opportunity to debate the pros and cons of groups and charters.

 

Since you clearly did not wish to share any relevant information with the group, it would have been more appropriate for you not to have posted to this thread at all.

:(

 

Perhaps you would be willing to initiate another thread discussing how the cruiselines in general are encouraging group sales and charters? I personally find the subject interesting, and if we can keep from getting into a pro-con debate, perhaps others would find it informative as well?

 

Here's the list that I have down - I hope I'm correct (Oh where is our List-Lady, Ziggy when we need her???)

 

 

 

06/25/05 Zuiderdam Oldies Radio – Group

 

 

 

06/30/05 – Westerdam – Trekkies and Geeks - Groups

 

07/02/05 Oosterdam Christian Singles - Group

07/10/05 Amsterdam Templeton Tours - Group

08/13/05 Oosterdam God of Israel - Group

08/21/05 Amsterdam Living the New Life Ministries - Charter

09/03/05 Oosterdam RSVP - Charter

10/29/05 Oosterdam Olivia - Charter

11/27/05 Ryndam Leisure World - Charter

12/11/05 Westerdam Single Seniors – Group

 

01/08/05 Westerdam Blues Cruise

01/29/06 Westerdam Olivia - Charter

02/05/06 Westerdam CCN - Charter

02/26/06 Westerdam RSVP – Charter

03/04/06 Westerdam RSVP – Charter

 

06/25/05 Zuiderdam Oldies Radio - Group

 

 

You can add the 09/17/05 Oosterdam cruise to Alaska. We booked this as a cruise for Good Sam Club RVers. However, I have no idea how many, if any, Good Sam Club members or RVers have signed on.

 

 

iuki

[sail7seas]

.

 

As far as pools go, sailaway parties at ports are really the only time that you will have something like this occur......[/Quote]

 

We were on Ryndam when she was about 70% chartered and the rest of us were very obviously a nuisance and in the way. We were thrown out of AFT pool at 1:00 on a sea day (a bright, beautiful sunny day that we were enjoying) because the 'group' had private plans for its use. There was no choice of us staying. We were told we were not a part of the group, we were to leave NOW!

 

In the case of a full ship charter, groups can choose to do whatever they want and will almost always exclude any outside patrons from being able to book onto that particular sailing.

 

It sure does the rest of us a favor if whatever the group, it totally charters the ship and does not make it possible that someone (as happened to DH and me) can book and unknowingly be subjected to a horrible experience from start to finish. Who would want to be there if not a part of the group?!!

 

HAL WILL NOT tell you if a ship has a very large group when you are making a booking.....EVEN IF ASKED. I find that disingenuous and very close to dishonest. We have a right to have that questions answered truthfully, if asked. IMO I do not necessarily think they need to volunteer the information but a I do think they have a duty to answer it truthfully if asked. JMHO....