High water levels

[smokeynz]

On Avalon Amsterdam to Budapest and we have been told water levels too high to get through Main river so we are in Frankfurt and will be busing to ports of call for next two days returning to ship 1 night and in hotel for 1 or two nights depending on what levels do.

Has anyone else been in this situation? What happens if water levels stay high will we end up doing a bus tour the rest of way? Cruise director keeping us informed but would like others experiences in this situation. Thanks

[ingo_e]

Go to: http://rivercruiseinfo.com/content/rivers?ri_id=2#tabs-3 , click "unfold all" and you'll see the daily charts for the Main river.

 

At the moment the Levels around Schweinfurt (between Würzburg & are slightly dropping: from 440cm yesterday morning down to 400cm at midnight. Since then it stayed around 400. Same at Würzburg.

 

The peak seems to arrive in the Spessart Area at the moment, at Wertheim and Faulbach levels are still rising but just a few cm over the last hours, it is slowing down..

[beverlyjack]

A very important, but often ignored consideration in the choice of the cruise lines and ships for a cruise are the dimensions of the ship. These become critical to your trip under high and low water conditions. Many of the newer, larger ships are higher and deeper, requiring the river to be deeper and the bridges nigher, preventing them from navigating the rivers during high and low water conditions, when smaller ships could. All it takes is one section that is too shallow or one bridge too low to prevent the ship from completing the cruise.

 

The above web site has ship information, as well as river height information. The link for that is http://rivercruiseinfo.com/content/ships-index.

 

Avalon ships used on this itinerary are

 

Ship Min. Draft Height Passengers

 

Panorama 1.60m 6.20m 166

Expresssion NA NA 166

Vista 1.60 6.20 166

Tranquility 1.60 NA 170

 

Grand Circle ships used on a similar itinerary are:

 

River Adagio 1.50 6.00 164

River Aria 1.50 6.00 164

River Concerto 1.50 6.00 140

River Harmony 1.65 6.00 140

River Melody 1.55 6.00 140

River Rhapsody 1.45 6.00 140

 

We encountered this on October 2009, on this itinerary, during low water conditions. We were aboard the River Aria and completed the cruise, while some other ships could not make it from Amsterdam to Cologne, our first stop. Under extreme conditions any and all ships can have problems, but the smaller ships have less.

 

Bigger is, in this case, not better. It can ruin your vacation.

[2DesertRats!]

On Avalon Amsterdam to Budapest and we have been told water levels too high to get through Main river so we are in Frankfurt and will be busing to ports of call for next two days returning to ship 1 night and in hotel for 1 or two nights depending on what levels do.

Has anyone else been in this situation? What happens if water levels stay high will we end up doing a bus tour the rest of way? Cruise director keeping us informed but would like others experiences in this situation. Thanks

 

We experienced a high water problem on a Uniworld Christmas market cruise from Nuremberg to Vienna.

First night out a heavy snowfall resulted in the Danube approaching flood stage. We stopped (as scheduled) in Regensburg where we encountered the only ancient bridge not bombed during WWII. Unable to get under the old bridge we spent 2 extra nights in Regensburg while day bus trips were provided to the next ports on the schedule. Finally Uniworld decided to take us to Vienna by bus, place us in a 5 star hotel in the heart of Vienna, provide us with meal money for lunches, all the scheduled Vienna tours etc. In other words, they did their level best to maintain the itinerary.

We felt very satisfied with the way a very difficult situation was handled. Each line is different, but the good ones handle problems well.

[smokeynz]

High water levels still happening so the plan is to bus to the next couple of stops then we will swap ships with the Avalon ship stuck at Bamberg then continue schedule to Budapest. Thanks Avalon for sorting a difficult situation.

[bobandjo]

Well that really sucks, but guess it's the time of the year. Friends are heading over next week for a Viking Amsterdam - Budapest starting June 9, hope for their sake the rivers are down. But I'll mention it to him tomorrow just to get him worrying. :D We do that to each other. :) 3 weeks tomorrow we're on our way to the airport for our Avalon Vista trip.

[John99]

Go to: http://rivercruiseinfo.com/content/rivers?ri_id=2#tabs-3 , click "unfold all" and you'll see the daily charts for the Main river.

 

At the moment the Levels around Schweinfurt (between Würzburg & are slightly dropping: from 440cm yesterday morning down to 400cm at midnight. Since then it stayed around 400. Same at Würzburg.

 

The peak seems to arrive in the Spessart Area at the moment, at Wertheim and Faulbach levels are still rising but just a few cm over the last hours, it is slowing down..

 

Thanks for the information ingo e.

 

I'm trying to interpret the data. I need help.

 

To a novice -- 400cm means nothing to me.

How do I read 400cm? Is that good or bad? Probably good because the data went from 440cm to 400cm. Does the river still need to go down more?

How do I compare the 400cm -- is that # acceptable or unacceptable for passage of a ship? I need a benchmark (if possible).

What is accessible for passage? You probably need to know the draft of the ship relative to the water level. Plus ever ship has a different draft which you must factor into your equation in order to come up with an answer.

 

Does web-site show the history of water levels? Is late spring more adverse to high water levels than lets say the fall?

 

The only thing I understand from the charts is the water levels are going up or down depending current conditions.

 

John

[Ozjohnno]

Thanks for the information ingo e.

 

I'm trying to interpret the data. I need help.

 

To a novice -- 400cm means nothing to me.

How do I read 400cm? Is that good or bad? Probably good because the data went from 440cm to 400cm. Does the river still need to go down more?

How do I compare the 400cm -- is that # acceptable or unacceptable for passage of a ship? I need a benchmark (if possible).

What is accessible for passage? You probably need to know the draft of the ship relative to the water level. Plus ever ship has a different draft which you must factor into your equation in order to come up with an answer.

 

Does web-site show the history of water levels? Is late spring more adverse to high water levels than lets say the fall?

 

The only thing I understand from the charts is the water levels are going up or down depending current conditions.

 

John

 

As someone who has lived with the metric system for a long time may I help here. There are 2.5 cm to the inch therefore 400cm = 160 inches or 13.3 ft. During the period before our cruise in September 2011 we looked at river levels Vs ships drafts. It is a fairly time consuming exercise if you want to do it for all lines but if you go the brochure of the company you're cruising with and find the page with the ships information you'll easily find all the ships dimensions including the draft.

 

I hope this has been of some help.

[couchking]

Just got word that the Viking Prestige is cancelled for their June 2 cruise Prague to Budapest

[ingo_e]

John99: I have to admit, reading these levels isn't that easy, as I do not have the official warning levels included (trying to get them together at the moment..)

 

Therefore I recommend to take the graph, set the view from 7 to 30 days and you'll get an idea how the "regular" water level was (around 250cm for the Main). So a rise of 150cm is quite a lot, and 440 - 400 a 10% drop :)

 

As we are dealing with high water levels, the problem is not really the draft, but the height of the ship. There are some stations marked as "DFH", which means Durchfahrtshöhe, the maximum height at the moment which could pass the bridge. Second, even if a ship would fit under the bridges, sometimes navigation has to be stalled due to fast currents on the river. Both can lead to accidents like the Legend / Serenity showed this week. One ran aground (most likely due to currents) and the other damaged its sundeck installations due to a wrongly calculated DFH.

 

.Does web-site show the history of water levels? Is late spring more adverse to high water levels than lets say the fall?

 

actually it does: http://www.rivercruiseinfo.com/content/historical-water-level-1901-2012

 

beverlyjack: Thanks for using the data I provided how I intended them - add quality to the debate. Actually it puzzled me, as officially there were no official warning levels reached, but from Monday on everyone was concerned about high levels. But these are just the "modern" ships..

[jeckstein]

We are on the Avalon Visionaryband have learned that we can't continue on from Vienna to Nurenberg. We are spending one more night on the ship and then switching to a combination of hotels and busses. We don't know more than that so are waiting to see how Avalon will handle the situation.

[webfoot]

We were on a France cruise when the volcano caused interruptions to air travel. I was impressed with how Avalon handled everything. For those getting off the Normandy cruise who had to remain in Paris, Avalon used their ship as a floating hotel and made hotel reservations for others. they also assisted with rebooking air travel. Those of us who were continuing on the Burgundy and Provence trip found that we had fewer passengers. Some who could not get home right away elected to join the rest of the cruise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[smokeynz]

We disembark this morning and bus to Bamberg. Then after our tour of there we embark the ship Expression. We have been told we will continue our journey by river to Budapest. Hoping this doesn't change and the whole trip turns into an expensive coach trip. Commiserations to those who have to leave their cruise completely must be very disappointing.

[Needzavacation]

We boarded the Amacello in Basel yesterday, and we're currently docked by a lock in Breisach. This part of the Rhine River is now apparently closed to traffic - there's a briefing scheduled with our cruise manager 30 minutes from now.

[smokeynz]

We are now on board the Expression in Bamberg, we have a special briefing in 10 minutes. Not looking hopeful.

[bobandjo]

Hopefully everything works out ok Smokey. At least the Expression is a spitting image of the Vista. I'm now wondering if it's just turning around and going back to Budapest and the Vista heads back to Amsterdam, if it will change the schedule of those ships and we won't be on the Vista.

[Fred Farkel]

We just received an email from our TA that our Avalon Visionary cruise, Prague-Nuremberg-Budapest next week, is cancelled "due to unprecedented high water levels on the Danube." How disappointing! We were heading to the airport in about 2 hours, so I'm glad we were still at home.

[jeckstein]

Today, we took a bus trip to the Wachu valley, visiting Durnstein and Melk Abby. There was not a boat of any kind on the Danube. Austrian soldiers, firefighters, and volunteers were erecting flood control structures all along the river. Our local guide said they didn't expect the river to be open tomorrow.

On the plus side, Avalon provided us with lunch in a 5-star venue. Tomorrow we are being bussed to Salzberg by way of the countryside. We will have lunch along the way and arrive in Salzberg around 5:30. We will spend the night there. We are getting a briefing at dinner and I expect we will be told about the rest of the trip then.

It is an unpleasant situation for all, but Avalon appears to be handling it well.

[John99]

Thanks ingo e

 

Your reply helps.

 

From my limited research on water levels I have assumed the following:

 

• Water levels that are too high (or low) are not favorable for river traffic. Your cruise can be disrupted and can be very stressful.
  
• Not all the bridges are built to the same specification. While one ship can proceed under a bridge yet another bridge (father down the river) may cause trouble.
  
• Some bridges are older and some relatively younger.
  
• The greater risk of high water level appears to be in the spring. That's because of the melting snow pack in the mountains. European winters with a large amount of snow certainly does not help.
  
• If lower water levels occur it mostly happens in late summer or fall.
  
• If a particular region of Europe has a rainy summer, high water levels can happen and disrupt your cruise.
  
• All river cruise lines have experienced or will experience water level problems at one time or another. How a cruise line reacts to the situation varies between lines. From read the comments from cc cruisers -- it appears some lines do a better job than others. Contingency planning is very important. Which cruise line(s) do the best job??
  
• Because river cruising is growing in popularity -- booking a cruise for the current year is almost impossible. Most cruisers are looking at 2014 and wondering weather they can secure a stateroom that suits their needs. Bottom line -- you can't wait to book at the last moment.
  

John

[UKBayern]

You can also check levels on this map: http://www.hochwasserzentralen.de/

The colours are Green (normal), Yellow (slightly higher water), Orange (high water), Red (very high water), and Purple (extreme high water). You can click on the area of the map you want to enlarge. As you can see, most of Danube is Code Orange at the moment, with the expectation that water levels will rise significantly during the night. The situation changes by the hour, the river on the bottom of the hill where I live has just changed from Code Green to Code Red in literally 1 hour!

Rain is expected to slow down on Monday and stop on Tuesday, after which better weather should be on the way.

[smokeynz]

We are now going to be in Bamberg for 2 nights the cruise director has organised buses to Nuremberg for tomorrow. After that it seems To be day by day. We are not happy but can't argue with Mother Nature. Avalon appear to be doing their best to get us to the towns and locations we were meant to see. But it Seems a shame to pay for a cruise and end up with a coach trip.

The service, staterooms, lounges and food on the Expression are as good as Vista for those who were wondering.

[stretchcruz]

Bamberg is a great city. My brother's wife is German and her sister lives there. We spent some great times there. Have you been to the bier garden where the monks do the smoked beer? Glad Avalon is doing a good job for you, I know it is disappointing, but Mother Nature can't always be reasoned with.

[Peacemkr59]

Today, we took a bus trip to the Wachu valley, visiting Durnstein and Melk Abby. There was not a boat of any kind on the Danube. Austrian soldiers, firefighters, and volunteers were erecting flood control structures all along the river. Our local guide said they didn't expect the river to be open tomorrow.

On the plus side, Avalon provided us with lunch in a 5-star venue. Tomorrow we are being bussed to Salzberg by way of the countryside. We will have lunch along the way and arrive in Salzberg around 5:30. We will spend the night there. We are getting a briefing at dinner and I expect we will be told about the rest of the trip then.

It is an unpleasant situation for all, but Avalon appears to be handling it well.

 

Jeckstein, Sounds like Avalon is doing a very good job given the situation with the rivers. When we were on the Rhine one of the tour guides in Cologne explained to us about those flood control structures. Sounded very interesting, wondering if you'll get to see those? Do you know where they will be putting you up in Salzberg?

[smokeynz]

Bamberg is a great city. My brother's wife is German and her sister lives there. We spent some great times there. Have you been to the bier garden where the monks do the smoked beer? Glad Avalon is doing a good job for you, I know it is disappointing, but Mother Nature can't always be reasoned with.

 

We saw a little bit of Bamberg yesterday. Unfortunately we are docked not sure where exactly but is an industrial area about 10 15 minutes drive out of the centre so don't think we will have time to see anymore this morning.

[Pompey62]

Just had a call from our TA that our cruise on Avalon Luminary leaving Budapest on Sunday 9th June up to Paris has been cancelled very disappointing as it has been booked for over a year and it would have been our first river cruise, but I feel very sorry for all the poor people that have been affected by this awful flooding.