Tipping being outlawed!

[paulista1950]

I detest tipping as it is done now... I do it, but I detest it - because it means nothing to me in the way it should.

 

I've had some awful service in restaurants in a couple of cases - ignored, food (literally in some cases) slammed in front if me with barely a care, and frankly treated as a pain for requiring serving. I've also had fantastic service in a few more, where things have been close to perfect. All of the others have been somewhere in between - more toward the good end than the bad end thank goodness.

 

In my mind the exceptional deserves an exceptional tip (one quarter of a bill on top of an expensive meal seems pretty good going for doing your job well) whilst the poor deserves nothing - if they can't be bothered why should I have to 'reward' that? The rest somewhere in between.

 

Instead we have the ludicrous situation where even the worst expects 20% as a right - and in one restaurant where I was loathe to pay the bill, let alone leave a tip, I was told pretty straight that this is what was expected.

 

So what am I supposed to do to show my appreciation for a good meal and service? Not leave a 20% tip, that is apparently expected of me - 50%? 100%? Is a $200 meal actually a $400 meal if you get really good service? :eek: Do we end up in the ridiculous situation where you leave a $40 tip for a $200 meal and the waiter asks what they did wrong to only receive the 'everyone gets this' tip?

 

So now I just budget for and leave a 20% tip whatever the service - and it means nothing to me or the server regarding how good anything was, and in my mind that is pretty sad.

 

 

Wouldn't it be MUCH better if there were no tips involved? Would you tip a teacher for a good class?

[keithm]

You forgot to add that they can't be sacked, which is a pretty nice benefit. I agree with you that it's a "stretch" to compare the finances of tenured professors with waiters. But apparently, millionaire waiters are living in $2 million dollar homes! Who knew?

It depends on the inheritance they received, I guess. Sorry, but I've never heard of a waiter living in a $2million house. We have city employees retiring here in Nashua,NH who cash in all their sick/vacation/personal days & get a check for well over 100K. This on top of a pension of over 85K along with lifetime health benefits all covered by us, the tax payers. Wonder why your Property tax is so high? Sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to City/State/Govt. employees living off us like leeches. It DOES need to change. This is one reason Europe is in such a mess..These entitlements are killers! Sorry to go off topic. I'd rather go off menu!

[keithm]

Not in my experience. Having said that, waiters are really the only people that routinely receive tips. Whilst not unheard of, it's not customary to tip taxi drivers or hotel staff. Most people wouldn't be offended if you offered them money. They might be surprised (non-waiters anyway) but they would most likely still relieve you of your cash.

At a lot of the boutique inns/Bed & breakfasts that Richard & I stay at, there is frequently an envelope left on the dresser by the housekeeper for gratuities. The amount we leave is dictated by how good a cleaning job was done.

[gabianno]

Hello Whitemarsh,

Please clarify: I thought to offer a tip in Australia was seen as offensive.

 

It was, but that was a long long time ago.

Gabby

[Austcruiser84]

Wouldn't it be MUCH better if there were no tips involved? Would you tip a teacher for a good class?

 

Actually, teachers get tips in the way of presents at the end of the school year. Some of these presents can be quite expensive.

 

I've have had friends receive bottles of wine, chocolate, to $500 gift vouchers to, in one case, a $4,000 handbag.

 

But, as a present, it's not taxable income.

[Oceans&Rivers]

Actually, teachers get tips in the way of presents at the end of the school year. Some of these presents can be quite expensive.

 

I've have had friends receive bottles of wine, chocolate, to $500 gift vouchers to, in one case, a $4,000 handbag.

 

But, as a present, it's not taxable income.

 

Doesn't it depend on the value of the gift or the value of the aggregate of gifts? The Australian Tax Office (ATO) might have another view of this.

[Austcruiser84]

Doesn't it depend on the value of the gift or the value of the aggregate of gifts? The Australian Tax Office (ATO) might have another view of this.

 

I understand that certain sectors of the education system have rules on this. Mainly the public system.

 

Also, these are considered Christmas presents. As far as I'm aware, the ATO doesn't tax Christmas presents.

[Oceans&Rivers]

I understand that certain sectors of the education system have rules on this. Mainly the public system.

 

Also, these are considered Christmas presents. As far as I'm aware, the ATO doesn't tax Christmas presents.

 

I am not Australian and am unfamiliar with your tax code, but I cannot imagine that a high-value gift from a parent or student to a teacher, something such as the $4,000 handbag that you mentioned, would pass an ethics test (seems like a bribe from one rich parent, since most parents could not afford to give something so expensive), let alone not have to be reported by the teacher as income. The IRS here uses the term "de minimis" with regards to gifts and does not bother with inexpensive items, but higher amounts could be cause for alarm. In fact, some states strictly prohibit teachers from receiving expensive gifts.

 

See this article, entitled "Law puts dent in teachers’ gifts" about a 2011 law in Alabama where the limit is now $15, maximum:

 

http://www.andalusiastarnews.com/2011/12/03/law-puts-dent-in-teachers’-gifts/

[Louise D]

Not in my experience. Having said that, waiters are really the only people that routinely receive tips. Whilst not unheard of, it's not customary to tip taxi drivers or hotel staff. Most people wouldn't be offended if you offered them money. They might be surprised (non-waiters anyway) but they would most likely still relieve you of your cash.

 

Goodness, I have received all sorts of tips in kind for my legal services. From the traditional chocolates and flowers to wooden sculptures and a huge model of the QM2 imported from the U.S.A.. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about how one gives special recognition for services rendered.

 

I did once receive a selection of handbags, but they were Chinese knock-offs and given with humour at the end of an alleged counterfeiting case!

[pepperrn]

See this article, entitled "Law puts dent in teachers’ gifts" about a 2011 law in Alabama where the limit is now $15, maximum:

When I was at school (we wrote on the cave walls at first, later on papyrus... :o ) I never heard of gifts being given to teachers. To have done so would have been considered "crawling" or "teacher's pet". We were glad to see the back of them for a few weeks :mad: .

 

Then, a few years ago, I heard of small gifts (apples, little bars of chocolate costing 50p, maybe a home-made thank-you card proudly presented) being handed over at term-end.

 

But this has now got well-and-truly out of hand; in Marks & Spencer, Tesco et.al. there are whole departments set up (like a mini Christmas "shopping opportunity") with expensive gifts for teachers. Retailers must be rubbing their hands with glee.

 

I can see parents trying to out-do each other, using the chance to show off their wealth to other parents via their children. Furthermore, kids not understanding the true value of items bought with pester-power. And to me, it all smacks of bribery and corruption (I'd support any school that said "nothing over £1"); I can see some parents "having a go" at teachers (when their little princess does badly during exams, or their tiny thug is caught running the school protection racket) "but we gve you a TAG watch/Gucci Handbag/Seats at Covent Garden last term, and this is way you reward us?"

 

Rant over, back to writing on the cave wall... :D

[Whitemarsh]

Goodness, I have received all sorts of tips in kind for my legal services. From the traditional chocolates and flowers to wooden sculptures and a huge model of the QM2 imported from the U.S.A.. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about how one gives special recognition for services rendered.

 

I did once receive a selection of handbags, but they were Chinese knock-offs and given with humour at the end of an alleged counterfeiting case!

 

They sound like gifts to me, your clients probably wanted to thank you with a personalised gift.

 

Cash provided to someone in the service/hospitality industry, I class as a tip. Non-monetary items provided to professionals (such as doctors, teachers and lawyers) in recognition of their services, I class as gifts. Anyway, that's how I see it.

 

What was the wooden sculpture?

[Whitemarsh]

Actually, teachers get tips in the way of presents at the end of the school year. Some of these presents can be quite expensive.

 

I've have had friends receive bottles of wine, chocolate, to $500 gift vouchers to, in one case, a $4,000 handbag.

 

But, as a present, it's not taxable income.

 

That's so tacky. Who does that? Surely a good quality Christmas cake would suffice.

[Louise D]

What was the wooden sculpture?

 

I am tempted to say it is a Vietnamese wooden box direct from Ho Chi Minh City, but in reality it is a bird sculpture in various Australian woods and coloured metal.

 

I also agree that such items are best described as gifts rather than tips.

[Whitemarsh]

i am tempted to say it is a vietnamese wooden box direct from ho chi minh city, but in reality it is a bird sculpture in various australian woods and coloured metal.

 

I also agree that such items are best described as gifts rather than tips.

 

lol :D

[babine]

It depends on the inheritance they received, I guess. Sorry, but I've never heard of a waiter living in a $2million house. We have city employees retiring here in Nashua,NH who cash in all their sick/vacation/personal days & get a check for well over 100K. This on top of a pension of over 85K along with lifetime health benefits all covered by us, the tax payers. Wonder why your Property tax is so high? Sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to City/State/Govt. employees living off us like leeches. It DOES need to change. This is one reason Europe is in such a mess..These entitlements are killers! Sorry to go off topic. I'd rather go off menu!

 

That's quite the generalization Keith. So when you refer to "city/state/govt employees" you mean all of them? Pretty sad when your ignorance is so overwhelming that you lump every single government employee into one category. So you are including the people who handle your garbage, sewage, who run medical research trials at universities, who protect us, who fight fires, who provide care and oversight for children at risk?Get your facts straight and be a little more fair to those who work hard every day to provide you with many of the essential societal needs that we all depend on.

[fantasy51]

In regard to gifts for teachers: it helps to remember that in Australian primary schools the gift is given for both Christmas and the end of the school year (December). In most cases it is a farewell to being in that teacher's class. There is not, therefore, an element of bribery. In secondary schools there is the chance of having that teacher again in a future year, so the gift might influence the teacher's hopes or attitudes.

 

Here in the UK it was a surprise to receive 2 presents from children - one for Christmas and one at the end of the school year (July). Unfortunately, the schools I taught in didn't ever tempt me with expensive gifts; we did not have parents with that kind of wealth.

[keithm]

Excuse your own ignorance. What I'm saying is that there is such abuse in the retirement system for for these people. In Massachusetts cops/fire dept personel "Stuff" the overtime the last few years to grossly inflate their pensions. Sorry, but I HAVE to PAY for that through my tax dollars. I gather you're probably one of the recipients. Most of us in the private sector don't get ANYWHERE NEAR these perks. How many retired private sector workers do you know get full medical coverage after they retire?? Sorry but they need to pay for it like the rest of us do. So in a catagory yes, most public employees HERE have it quite nice, thank you. I'll agree it's not the same everywhere.

[babine]

Excuse your own ignorance. What I'm saying is that there is such abuse in the retirement system for for these people. In Massachusetts cops/fire dept personel "Stuff" the overtime the last few years to grossly inflate their pensions. Sorry, but I HAVE to PAY for that through my tax dollars. I gather you're probably one of the recipients. Most of us in the private sector don't get ANYWHERE NEAR these perks. How many retired private sector workers do you know get full medical coverage after they retire?? Sorry but they need to pay for it like the rest of us do. So in a catagory yes, most public employees HERE have it quite nice, thank you. I'll agree it's not the same everywhere.

 

No, I'm not a cop, or a fireman, contrary to your assumption above. I do appreciate them though and continue to support them and other public sector workers who do not deserve such unfair blanket statements as you continue to make. Indeed it isn't the same everywhere, nor is it even the same within the local area and within those jobs that you mention. I'm not going to comment further except to say that I hope you somehow can show a little more civility and respect to your neighbours.

[keithm]

No, I'm not a cop, or a fireman, contrary to your assumption above. I do appreciate them though and continue to support them and other public sector workers who do not deserve such unfair blanket statements as you continue to make. Indeed it isn't the same everywhere, nor is it even the same within the local area and within those jobs that you mention. I'm not going to comment further except to say that I hope you somehow can show a little more civility and respect to your neighbours.

I do show respect, it's the abuses I see that bug me. We live in a condo develpment. We've had issues with tresspassers & vandalism. When the police are called, they say "oh it's a private development, we really don't like to deal with that, "Get private patrols set up". Well being on our board & the fact that 500 owner contribute to over $2.5 million in property taxes, yes, we DO help pay their salaries. At any one time up to 15% of our teachers take sick days..75% of the time it's a Friday or Monday..Sorry I'm not sympethetic to your cause. Now move on to the next subject.

[Ryancoke]

Have you ever had anyone refuse a tip? We had a 'supplemental' tip refused. On our last day in London we were in a cab to the station and when we got out I gave the guy a tip. I think 3 quid. He took it. Since it was our last day there and I had some smaller change that I wouldn't be able to spend for a while, maybe half a pound but including a few pennies, I held it out to him too. He scoffed at me and refused it as though I was expecting him to take my garbage away. I can't judge the ways of exotic lands but where I come from that would be considered rude. Not for declining but the way he declined. At home I'm the guy who picked up pennies off the sidewalk. When we still had pennies.

[fantasy51]

Money is money! I'm surprised he wouldn't take it. I'm horrified that he was so rude about it.

[paulista1950]

Have you ever had anyone refuse a tip? We had a 'supplemental' tip refused. On our last day in London we were in a cab to the station and when we got out I gave the guy a tip. I think 3 quid. He took it. Since it was our last day there and I had some smaller change that I wouldn't be able to spend for a while, maybe half a pound but including a few pennies, I held it out to him too. He scoffed at me and refused it as though I was expecting him to take my garbage away. I can't judge the ways of exotic lands but where I come from that would be considered rude. Not for declining but the way he declined. At home I'm the guy who picked up pennies off the sidewalk. When we still had pennies.

 

MY experience with London cab drivers is awful :(

[keithm]

Money is money! I'm surprised he wouldn't take it. I'm horrified that he was so rude about it.

I remember Groucho Marx(Night at the Opera)when it came to tipping.."Excuse me sir, do you have change for a $10 bill?" "Why yes" said the steward! "Well in that case, you won't need the 10 cents I was going to give you!"