Tipping being outlawed!

[capnpugwash]

Can anyone give me a reason for tipping (salary?) not being included in the prices of a restaurant like EVERYTHING else?

 

Tradition perhaps?

[keithm]

Can anyone give me a reason for tipping (salary?) not being included in the prices of a restaurant like EVERYTHING else?

My father would frequently tip the chef in a restaurant where the food was outstanding.

[paulista1950]

Tradition perhaps?

 

And may be it's time to let it go.

[Dianacm]

Can anyone give me a reason for tipping (salary?) not being included in the prices of a restaurant like EVERYTHING else?

 

 

There is a very good reason: it makes cruise fares appear less expensive.

 

Servers and stewards earn the vast majority of their income through tips. If they were paid that wage directly by the cruise lines, rates would be significantly higher. Obviously automatic tipping produces the same cost to passengers, but it isn't the cost they advertise.

 

If Cunard or the other major lines were registered in the UK or the US, one might speculate that avoiding direct payment was a means to avoid hefty payroll taxes, but they fly flags of convenience to avoid this and other taxes.

 

It's simply marketing.

[Dianacm]

Off the water, I would guess taxes and menu sticker shock are the reasons in most countries.

[balf]

. Obviously automatic tipping produces the same cost to passengers, .

 

Not if other opt out it doesn't.

 

David.

[balf]

They're equally important. Neither of the below options works.

1. Good food - bad service.
   
2. Bad food - good service.
   

 

Well I would choose the first every time, the waiter has little impact on the food, unless he spits in it, and you wouldn't know if he did anyway.

 

David.

[Dianacm]

Well I would choose the first every time, the waiter has little impact on the food, unless he spits in it, and you wouldn't know if he did anyway.

 

David.

 

...now that you mention it, another good reason not to opt out :eek:

[NeilT66]

If Cunard or the other major lines were registered in the UK or the US, one might speculate that avoiding direct payment was a means to avoid hefty payroll taxes, but they fly flags of convenience to avoid this and other taxes.

 

One could argue that passing on the gratuity money to the employees, untaxed, means that the employees are responsible for declaring it wherever they pay income tax - or not! There is a potential net benefit to the employees, albeit illegal.

[Whitemarsh]

Well I would choose the first every time, the waiter has little impact on the food, unless he spits in it, and you wouldn't know if he did anyway.

 

David.

 

It's quite interesting, the number of people on here that have low opinions about hospitality as a job.

 

You'd think, that if service was irrelevant to the enjoyment of a meal, that no one would ever comment on the service in the ship's restaurants - seeing as how it's immaterial.

[capnpugwash]

One could argue that passing on the gratuity money to the employees, untaxed, means that the employees are responsible for declaring it wherever they pay income tax - or not! There is a potential net benefit to the employees, albeit illegal.

 

It's not illegal as their earnings are tax free because they are out of their countries for more than 6 months in any year, assuming that their contracts are renewed.

[balf]

It's quite interesting, the number of people on here that have low opinions about hospitality as a job.

 

You'd think, that if service was irrelevant to the enjoyment of a meal, that no one would ever comment on the service in the ship's restaurants - seeing as how it's immaterial.

 

No this is just wrong and has nothing to do with opinions about the level of skill of the wait staff.

 

We don't need to go into the merits of waiters v other ship staff. All are part of the team that runs the ship and look after the passengers. But waiters do seem to be elevated over other staff: room stewards, who seem to be largely forgotten add much more to my cruise. Not to mention the staff who never come face to face with the passengers.

 

And do I think that waiters need a high degree of skill? No. Do I think that hospitality is a lowly profession? No.

 

David

[NeilT66]

It's not illegal as their earnings are tax free because they are out of their countries for more than 6 months in any year, assuming that their contracts are renewed.

 

Most countries have put legislation in place to enable them to tax their citizens on earnings anywhere. This certainly applies to the UK and USA. The concept of tax free earnings has all but disappeared, except for certain privileged people such as EU employees :mad:

[capnpugwash]

Most countries have put legislation in place to enable them to tax their citizens on earnings anywhere. This certainly applies to the UK and USA. The concept of tax free earnings has all but disappeared, except for certain privileged people such as EU employees :mad:

 

Most countries have dual taxation arrangements as you say but working on board a ship and being absent for the majority of days in a year from your home country (UK) makes any earnings tax free.

[paulista1950]

It's quite interesting, the number of people on here that have low opinions about hospitality as a job.

 

You'd think, that if service was irrelevant to the enjoyment of a meal, that no one would ever comment on the service in the ship's restaurants - seeing as how it's immaterial.

 

Do you have low opinions about security as a job?

Do you tip the security officers?

Do you have low opinions about navegation as a job?

Do you tip the pilots?

 

As I asked before: why do we tip waiters and not flight attendants? :confused:

 

P.S. I guess almost the majority of us hasn't a low opinion about medicine as a job, but we still don't tip doctors

[Dianacm]

Do you have low opinions about security as a job?

Do you tip the security officers?

Do you have low opinions about navegation as a job?

Do you tip the pilots?

 

As I asked before: why do we tip waiters and not flight attendants? :confused:

 

P.S. I guess almost the majority of us hasn't a low opinion about medicine as a job, but we still don't tip doctors

 

Might be wrong, but I believe Whitemarsh was referring to the discussion about relative skill levels required for hospitality jobs rather than whether a specific job warrants tipping or not.

 

Many service employees earning low hourly wages depend on tips for the bulk of their income-certainly cruise line waiters and cabin stewards fall into that category. Regardless of personal philosophy regarding tipping, what is clear that absent tips they earn almost nothing. Those in higher salaried professions-including pilots and MDs-generally don't warrant gratuities. Obviously there are exceptions: Many-not all- US terminal porters, for ex. receive very high wages and benefits and still they are often tipped. And you raise an interesting question by mentioning airline employees. With consolidation and forced wage concessions, many flight attendants have a far more difficult and possibly lower paying job than many waiters. And to paraphrase a recent quote from one disgruntled pilot facing yet another round of cutbacks at a major US airline "we used to be one step below astronauts, now we're barely a step above city busdrivers-except we don't get their good municipal benefits."

 

Maybe we should tip pilots and flight attendants; we get nickled and dimed for everything else when we fly already. ;)

[balf]

Might be wrong, but I believe Whitemarsh was referring to the discussion about relative skill levels required for hospitality jobs rather than whether a specific job warrants tipping or not.

 

Many service employees earning low hourly wages depend on tips for the bulk of their income-certainly cruise line waiters and cabin stewards fall into that category. Regardless of personal philosophy regarding tipping, what is clear that absent tips they earn almost nothing. Those in higher salaried professions-including pilots and MDs-generally don't warrant gratuities. Obviously there are exceptions: Many-not all- US terminal porters, for ex. receive very high wages and benefits and still they are often tipped. And you raise an interesting question by mentioning airline employees. With consolidation and forced wage concessions, many flight attendants have a far more difficult and possibly lower paying job than many waiters. And to paraphrase a recent quote from one disgruntled pilot facing yet another round of cutbacks at a major US airline "we used to be one step below astronauts, now we're barely a step above city busdrivers-except we don't get their good municipal benefits."

 

Maybe we should tip pilots and flight attendants; we get nickled and dimed for everything else when we fly already. ;)

 

When we talk about tipping airline pilots we can see how the tipping culture has become so out of hand. It isn't going to happen because we have stumbled into this situation without noticing what was happening, largely,it has to be said due to our American friends, but only a commitment by all employers to pay a decent wage will rid us of this problem. It's interesting to compare the minimum wage UK v US!

 

Maybe someone could explain the logic of any employee having to depend on tips for a living. I have read quite a few attempts on these boards but none have made much sense to me.

 

Tipping is demeaning to both customer and server, and the amount of posts we get whenever this is discussed (and it is so regularly) show how it impacts on so many peoples cruises.

 

David.

[Whitemarsh]

No this is just wrong and has nothing to do with opinions about the level of skill of the wait staff.

 

We don't need to go into the merits of waiters v other ship staff. All are part of the team that runs the ship and look after the passengers. But waiters do seem to be elevated over other staff: room stewards, who seem to be largely forgotten add much more to my cruise. Not to mention the staff who never come face to face with the passengers.

 

And do I think that waiters need a high degree of skill? No. Do I think that hospitality is a lowly profession? No.

 

David

 

When given the choice between a restaurant with good food & bad service, or bad food & good service, you chose the former and said that you would choose it every time.

 

Possibly you may find yourself dinning alone, as a lot of people find both good food & good service to be essential components to enjoying a meal in a restaurant. Well, that's not true - nothing surprises me about this place - I might be the only person on Cruise Critic that thinks this way.

 

In my opinion, skill is involved in being a good waiter, not least the ability to deal with the various people that one comes in contact with - not an easy task let me tell you - in addition to efficiently running the section assigned (with multiple tables and passengers to deal with).

 

I do agree with you that we don't need to go into the whole waiters v other ship staff, which is why I was surprised that you brought it up.

 

Tipping is demeaning to both customer and server, and the amount of posts we get whenever this is discussed (and it is so regularly) show how it impacts on so many peoples cruises.

 

David.

 

In your opinion.

[Whitemarsh]

Do you have low opinions about security as a job?

 

No.

 

Do you tip the security officers?

 

No.

 

Do you have low opinions about navegation as a job?

 

No.

 

Do you tip the pilots?

 

No.

 

 

It's like fending off John Travolta in a gay bar. :D

 

As I asked before: why do we tip waiters and not flight attendants? :confused:

 

Cultural reasons, tradition.....

 

P.S. I guess almost the majority of us hasn't a low opinion about medicine as a job, but we still don't tip doctors

 

P.P.S. We don't tip doctors because they (in a lot of cases) earn more than us. What does a brain surgeon earn?

 

Might be wrong, but I believe Whitemarsh was referring to the discussion about relative skill levels required for hospitality jobs rather than whether a specific job warrants tipping or not.

 

That's right, but keep it to yourself ;)

[Dianacm]

When we talk about tipping airline pilots we can see how the tipping culture has become so out of hand. It isn't going to happen because we have stumbled into this situation without noticing what was happening, largely,it has to be said due to our American friends, but only a commitment by all employers to pay a decent wage will rid us of this problem. It's interesting to compare the minimum wage UK v US!

 

Maybe someone could explain the logic of any employee having to depend on tips for a living. I have read quite a few attempts on these boards but none have made much sense to me.

 

Tipping is demeaning to both customer and server, and the amount of posts we get whenever this is discussed (and it is so regularly) show how it impacts on so many peoples cruises.

 

David.

 

I don't think we should tip pilots. The winking emoticon was meant to signify that I was joking.

 

It is logical for corporations to pay their employees as little as the market will bear, as it maximizes profits for their shareholders. Customers who find tipping demeaning have the ability to vote with shoes and wallets and give their business to cruise lines registered in nations which require "employers to pay a decent wage," as you put it. Good luck with that. There is a reason why "Southampton" no longer appears on the stern of Cunard's ships, just as there is a reason so many manufacturing jobs have moved out of the US, even with our low minimum wage.

 

They also have the right simply not to tip, but I think that causes financial suffering to those who can least afford it.

[Dianacm]

 

 

 

That's right, but keep it to yourself ;)

 

If I breached posting etiquette or guidelines on this one, I apologize

[Whitemarsh]

If I breached posting etiquette or guidelines on this one, I apologize

 

No, nothing like that. I was just curious to see where the Paulista1950 anti-tipping juggernaut was going to take us. :)

 

Where's Sue when you need her?

[NeilT66]

Maybe someone could explain the logic of any employee having to depend on tips for a living. I have read quite a few attempts on these boards but none have made much sense to me.

 

It could be argued that it's the fault of us, the customers. By making a habit of tipping certain people, waiting staff being the prime example, we have allowed restaurant and hotel owners to take advantage of our good nature. They pay low wages in the hospitality business, knowing that most customers will tip reasonably well, thus making up the wages.

 

If everyone stopped tipping, then the owners would have to increase their wages to a proper level or they wouldn't have any staff. I wonder if anyone would have to guts to start such a campaign, or would we all be reminded that the waiters would suffer until things changed?

[paulista1950]

Many service employees earning low hourly wages depend on tips for the bulk of their income-certainly cruise line waiters and cabin stewards fall into that category. Regardless of personal philosophy regarding tipping, what is clear that absent tips they earn almost nothing.

 

generously, but I'd prefer waiters to be well paid

[paulista1950]

No, nothing like that. I was just curious to see where the Paulista1950 anti-tipping juggernaut was going to take us. :)

 

Where's Sue when you need her?

 

surreal system, that's all.