Dress Code--more questions (oh no!)

[glojo]

Glojo

 

You have a right to your views, and a right to express them, however nothing can beat actual experience.

 

I am ex British, did not come to USA until I was aged md 50's, I am well aware of the IRA, also the Pro **** supporters in the 30's with their marches through the East End of London, as well as the starving miner's marches of the l930's.

 

I am sure there were many good people who in 1936-1938 would have refused to believer that the so polite, charming, educated, German students in London would on returning to their own country commit the horrors of the concentration camps, or the Warsaw ghetto.

 

At this very moment here in the USA, an extremely well educated, financially secure, Army officer is awaiting trial, he went into the medical centre on his army camp, and opened fire on fellow soldiers waiting for treatment. He killed innocent people he had mixed with every day. Who would have thought it?

 

The Boston bombers, again if you had met these brothers three months ago, in a social setting you would not have believed they could commit the act of bombing innocent people watching a foot race.

 

The parents of the girl who married one of the brothers would never have believed their daughter could marry a man who could commit such a crime.

 

Two men I knew personally, both educated, both had lived and worked in England. ****r wanted a son -when his wife gave birth to twin girls, he deliberately let them starve to death, all the time proclaiming "It is the will of Allah" Shaffi, a Major in the Parkistan Air Force, socialized with Jim and I , yet one day when Jim was absent in the desert Shaffi came with others to my home, pulled a knife and told me he would cut my throat and kill my children! Even Jim had trouble relating the man we knew socially with the one who came to our home that day.

 

Many on here will I am sure disagree with me, that is their right, but I personally do not want any passenger wandering around the ship[, hidden under a Bell tent. The burka has absolutely NO Religious meaning, NO cultural meaning.

 

It is a choice, but where does choice end?

 

A Holy Man may walk through a bazar stark naked, (yes I have seen this) but that is not acceptable in our society.

 

As far as "polite" conversation goes, speaking to a Burka glad female (even if the speaker were your wife) would be a sure way to cause a problem.

As you rightly say jimsgirl we will have to agree to disgree

 

I have not served in Iraq or Afghanistan but I did serve in Aden so do have some sort of first hand experience.

 

I worked at night, by day I was guarded by a muslim.. I slept like a baby in the knowledge that I was being protected by this man and here I am today to talk about it.

 

I 100% disagree with your paranoid stance but I totally respect your rights to voice them.

 

Do you seriously, honestly believe this lady wearing her burka is any type of threat and if you do I find that sad.

 

Take care and best wishes

John

[Salacia]

Perhaps one of the reasons why burka's can be considered a security risk is because they are an effective disguise. For example:

 

"One of the men convicted for the July 21 suicide bomb plot, Yassin Omar, escaped London by dressing head to toe in a black burka.

 

The then-25-year-old, who also carried a white handbag, was filmed on camera walking through a crowd at a bus station in Birmingham in the clothing of a devout Muslim woman.

 

He had used the disguise to return north after his rucksack bomb had failed to detonate on the London Underground in 2005"

copied from

http://news.uk.msn.com/in-pictures/bin-ladens-cowboy-hat-and-other-criminal-disguises765987

 

Of course, there are all kinds of disguises, but since a burka covers everything from head to toe, it would hide everything except height.

[Cruachan]

...A Holy Man may walk through a bazar stark naked, (yes I have seen this) but that is not acceptable in our society...

 

It appears, however, that it is acceptable if he chooses to ride a bicycle in company with a few hundred other naked people!

 

J

[seasidegal]

As you rightly say jimsgirl we will have to agree to disgree

 

I have not served in Iraq or Afghanistan but I did serve in Aden so do have some sort of first hand experience.

 

I worked at night, by day I was guarded by a muslim.. I slept like a baby in the knowledge that I was being protected by this man and here I am today to talk about it.

 

I 100% disagree with your paranoid stance but I totally respect your rights to voice them.

 

Do you seriously, honestly believe this lady wearing her burka is any type of threat and if you do I find that sad.

 

Take care and best wishes

John

 

John,

 

I believe that someone wearing a burka can be a threat. It has already happened as pointed out above, I believe a woman wearing a burka can be a threat as there are now many Muslim women suicide bombers....and I find that very sad.:(

 

 

seasidegal

[paulista1950]

Are you talking about your country - but in the future?

 

 

 

Perhaps you don't live in fear of "these very nice people" because you're not a woman...living in Norway.

 

Or a girl who just wants to date who she chooses.

 

 

 

Well, we could probably start with the one that most, if not all terrorist invoke when going about their "business".

 

But maybe you're right Glojo, nothing to see here, move on people. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

The obvious point, that has somehow eluded you, is that the IRA terrorists were not committing their acts of terror in the name of, or because of, their religion.

 

 

 

Yes, it does, if they are doing it in the name of their religion. The blood curdling cry of "Allahu Akbar" before the infidel is beheaded or the plane slams into the ground near Shanksville, Pennsylvania would seem to suggest there's a common religious element to it.

 

Even if, Glojo, it doesn't matter to you. It must matter to the terrorists. Contained within the checklist of final reminders for the 9/11 hijackers is the following helpful reminder: "When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, 'Allahu Akbar,' because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers."

 

 

 

Agreed, there has long been a hypocritical attitude in some sections of America with regard to their favourable treatment (and funding) of IRA terrorists.

 

 

 

What a great idea Glojo. :rolleyes:

 

Let's ask Aqsa Parvez.......oh wait! We can't, she's not available for polite conversation..... anymore.

 

Enough with political correctness

[candle in the wind]

Hello Whitemarsh,

 

I doubt if there is anyone in the First World, educated or otherwise, who isn't aware of the threat of Muslim dominance.

It is too late for Europe, the damage is done regarding immigration, by politicians with their own agenda.

However, is glojo wrong to place some trust in what might be moderate Muslims? Should he show them some respect and risk being thought of as a "soft touch"? Is that a sign of weakness in Infidels that will be exploited?

I can only continue to act in a fair way, and time will tell if I should have been more suspicious and kept my distance.

 

As for "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland in the latter part of the 20th Century: yes, it was two fleas fighting over who owned the dog, but it was also religious, and no side has anything to be proud of.

 

Getting back to the #1 question, would someone be allowed on a Cunard Cruise wearing a Burka? By this I understand a full face veil. If so, then I would take it that she would be facially examined as are other passengers [but by a female]. I would like to point out that the extremists' dream is to have European - looking converts to carry out the dirty work, as has happened in Canada recently, so while some people think they are keeping their eye on the ball, the action is going on on the other side of the field.

 

Always good to share opinions with you all.

 

Viva Cunard! [but only on our terms, lol].

[Pushka]

Dup

[Pushka]

I don't like labelling all people of a religion as being a threat just because of the acts of extremists within their group. Because in doing so I would be tarring all Christians, Jewish people, Muslims and so on with the same brush.

 

I think the worst act of terrorism in Australia was committed by a guy in his twenties wearing jeans and a shirt.

[glojo]

John,

 

I believe that someone wearing a burka can be a threat. It has already happened as pointed out above, I believe a woman wearing a burka can be a threat as there are now many Muslim women suicide bombers....and I find that very sad.:(

 

 

seasidegal

Hi Seaside gal

I think we have come to an enpassé regarding this issue and I do smile about so called memories as the IRA 'Troubles' only really started in the very late 1960's. My first ship visited Belfast in the mid 1960's and to get ashore we would have to walk through the poorest Roman Catholic areas of Belfast. We did this in uniform without a care in the World, we would have young children running up to us and I will never, ever forget the words one one scally wag said to me ...

 

 

'Mister, mister...... Have you gotta a penny mister?'

 

'Nope, sorry, I've got no money'

 

'Mister, mister.... Have yuh gotta cigarette mister?'

 

'No, sorry I don't smoke'

 

Mister, mister...'

 

What now?

 

Mister, mister, if you've got no cigarettes, and you've got no money... What the f*** have you come ashore for!!'

 

 

A beautiful country with adorable people and yet a few years later this exact same area was a no go area for British forces and to be there in uniform was to invite a bullet between the eyes.

 

The Irish issue never became a problem until the late 1960's so I fail to see what the 1930's has to do with the IRA terrorism point.

 

I believe that someone wearing a burka can be a threat. It has already happened as pointed out above, I believe a woman wearing a burka can be a threat as there are now many Muslim women suicide bombers....and I find that very sad.

 

Does it really matter what that bomber wore as a disguise?

 

If he had been stopped whilst dressed in a burka, he would have instantly been arrested as a man wearing that dress is quite clearly a man with something to hide and this would need investigating. Bottom line however was that this person could so easily have simply worn dark glasses and a baseball cap........ just like thousands upon thousands of criminals that try to avoid being identified.

 

In America how many women have been convicted of carrying explosives whilst dressed in a burka? How many terrorists have been caught in America dressed in that clothing?

 

We must all surely take a deep breath and ignore this awful type of hysteria otherwise we start seeing soldiers gunning down innocent women and children just because of who they are and that is when we loose the moral high ground.

 

jimsgirl talks about the killing of two children by a Major in the Pakistani Airforce but I fear that US Sergeant's behaviour might be deemed worse and what about the lunatic in Sweden and once more this person claims to be a Roman Catholic having been disillusioned with his own prodestant religion.

 

It can so easily be suggested that this hysteria regarding the fear surrounding muslims and the burka dress is exactly what the terrorists want... They want us to be afraid, they want us to condemn them, they want us to kill innocent women and children..

 

I would simply say all of us have far, far more chance of being killed in a road traffic incident than we will ever have of being a victim of terrorism and yet who here is afraid of getting into a car.......... (that has a roof and winscreen that my be tinted) :eek:;)

 

I Confess to not being a fan of the burka dress and would definitely love to meet that couple and discuss the reasoning behind their decison to wear it.

 

Food for thought

During my time in Aden we would have extremely young children or women throw petrol bombs or grenades at our forces and sadly some were killed whilst committing these terrible acts!!

 

Why do I say unfortunately???

 

Imagine you are in your house, there is a knock at the door, the lady of the house answers this knock and is confronted by a terrorist who simply gives her a hand grenade or molotov cocktail and says, "Throw this at a British patrol or I will return tomorrow and kill both you and your family!'

 

It never matters who answers the door, the request is the same and sadly the results were also the same.. Is the person throwing the grenade the terrorist? What option did that poor individual have??

 

 

Folks fail to realise the simple fact that terrorism is an evil trade and they will always rely on fear as their main weapon of choice.

 

;);)Candle in the wind... I did smile when I read your post as it appeals to my wicked sense of humour that anyone would think I was a 'soft touch' :)

 

You have made some excellent points and how nice to have debates that do not nit pick and get personal ... I strongly, passionately, disagree with jimsgirl but I respect her rights to say what ever she wants and would love the chance to debate this with her. (I still need to be told why the US were the biggest fund raisers for the IRA terrorists)

[seasidegal]

Hi Seaside gal

I think we have come to an enpassé regarding this issue...

 

Does it really matter what that bomber wore as a disguise?

 

If he had been stopped whilst dressed in a burka, he would have instantly been arrested as a man wearing that dress is quite clearly a man with something to hide and this would need investigating. Bottom line however was that this person could so easily have simply worn dark glasses and a baseball cap........ just like thousands upon thousands of criminals that try to avoid being identified.

 

In America how many women have been convicted of carrying explosives whilst dressed in a burka? How many terrorists have been caught in America dressed in that clothing?

 

John,

 

You are missing my point....the Burka is an ideal hiding place for weapons to be used against other human beings. (I do not care what religion or colour the person under the burka is). I would exit and take my grandkids if an establishment we were visiting was entered by someone wearing a burka. I'm sorry if you feel sad about that but I will put my kids and their children's safety above political correctness or the risk of hurting someone's feelings.

 

We were recently visiting London, and have noticed how many government buildings have become armed fortresses. As we were walking by one building, we noticed a large group of school children who were waiting to enter for a visit, a soldier was standing nearby and we thanked him for his service, he said 'Thank you' but please move on now. He pointed to a backpack lying against a lamb post with no one standing right next to it. They were clearing the area because of a child's backpack that was most likely dropped by one of the children while waiting. (this was shortly after the bomb attack in Boston). The soldiers felt it was better to be safe than sorry until the owner of the backpack could be indentified. This is sadly the world our children now inhabit due to no fault of their own. But as an adult who has responsibility for their safety, I will err alongside the soldiers on the side of being overly cautious.

 

Bottom line however was that this person could so easily have simply worn dark glasses and a baseball cap........ just like thousands upon thousands of criminals that try to avoid being identified.

 

This is true, but it is hard to hide a bomb under a baseball cap - although, I wouldn't be surprised to hear it has been done :-( .

 

Folks fail to realise the simple fact that terrorism is an evil trade and they will always rely on fear as their main weapon of choice.

 

I do not think folks fail to realize the horrible (not simple) fact that terrorism is evil. I also do not feel folks fail to realize that one of the most useful weapons that a terrorist uses is the fear of what they will do next. We realize this because as law-abiding citizens we are now frisked, x-rayed and our emails may be read, our phone calls listened to all in the name of our personal 'security'. As we are subject to those things, it is pretty clear that 'fear' is a very useful weapon of terrorism.

 

 

seasidegal.

[Pushka]

In Bali the terrorist bombs were all located in backpacks.

 

Unfortunately Governments may also create a belief in a state of fear around election times.

[seasidegal]

In Bali the terrorist bombs were all located in backpacks.

 

Unfortunately Governments may also create a belief in a state of fear around election times.

 

Pushka:

 

So true. Unfortunately, it is not just around election times........:rolleyes:

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

... (I still need to be told why the US were the biggest fund raisers for the IRA terrorists)

 

I am unaware that my country was the biggest fund raiser for the IRA. Would you please give a citation ? Perhaps you might also mention the on-going efforts by the USA for Peace Accords to end the Troubles - most recently by President Obama http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/408200/President-Obama-The-world-looks-at-Northern-Ireland-for-peace-blueprint

 

We didn't start the fire.

[CruznTom]

Hi Seaside gal

I think we have come to an enpassé regarding this issue and I do smile about so called memories as the IRA 'Troubles' only really started in the very late 1960's. My first ship visited Belfast in the mid 1960's and to get ashore we would have to walk through the poorest Roman Catholic areas of Belfast. We did this in uniform without a care in the World, we would have young children running up to us and I will never, ever forget the words one one scally wag said to me ...

 

 

'Mister, mister...... Have you gotta a penny mister?'

 

'Nope, sorry, I've got no money'

 

'Mister, mister.... Have yuh gotta cigarette mister?'

 

'No, sorry I don't smoke'

 

Mister, mister...'

 

What now?

 

Mister, mister, if you've got no cigarettes, and you've got no money... What the f*** have you come ashore for!!'

 

 

A beautiful country with adorable people and yet a few years later this exact same area was a no go area for British forces and to be there in uniform was to invite a bullet between the eyes.

 

The Irish issue never became a problem until the late 1960's so I fail to see what the 1930's has to do with the IRA terrorism point.

 

 

 

Does it really matter what that bomber wore as a disguise?

 

If he had been stopped whilst dressed in a burka, he would have instantly been arrested as a man wearing that dress is quite clearly a man with something to hide and this would need investigating. Bottom line however was that this person could so easily have simply worn dark glasses and a baseball cap........ just like thousands upon thousands of criminals that try to avoid being identified.

 

In America how many women have been convicted of carrying explosives whilst dressed in a burka? How many terrorists have been caught in America dressed in that clothing?

 

We must all surely take a deep breath and ignore this awful type of hysteria otherwise we start seeing soldiers gunning down innocent women and children just because of who they are and that is when we loose the moral high ground.

 

jimsgirl talks about the killing of two children by a Major in the Pakistani Airforce but I fear that US Sergeant's behaviour might be deemed worse and what about the lunatic in Sweden and once more this person claims to be a Roman Catholic having been disillusioned with his own prodestant religion.

 

It can so easily be suggested that this hysteria regarding the fear surrounding muslims and the burka dress is exactly what the terrorists want... They want us to be afraid, they want us to condemn them, they want us to kill innocent women and children..

 

I would simply say all of us have far, far more chance of being killed in a road traffic incident than we will ever have of being a victim of terrorism and yet who here is afraid of getting into a car.......... (that has a roof and winscreen that my be tinted) :eek:;)

 

I Confess to not being a fan of the burka dress and would definitely love to meet that couple and discuss the reasoning behind their decison to wear it.

 

Food for thought

During my time in Aden we would have extremely young children or women throw petrol bombs or grenades at our forces and sadly some were killed whilst committing these terrible acts!!

 

Why do I say unfortunately???

 

Imagine you are in your house, there is a knock at the door, the lady of the house answers this knock and is confronted by a terrorist who simply gives her a hand grenade or molotov cocktail and says, "Throw this at a British patrol or I will return tomorrow and kill both you and your family!'

 

It never matters who answers the door, the request is the same and sadly the results were also the same.. Is the person throwing the grenade the terrorist? What option did that poor individual have??

 

 

Folks fail to realise the simple fact that terrorism is an evil trade and they will always rely on fear as their main weapon of choice.

 

;);)Candle in the wind... I did smile when I read your post as it appeals to my wicked sense of humour that anyone would think I was a 'soft touch' :)

 

You have made some excellent points and how nice to have debates that do not nit pick and get personal ... I strongly, passionately, disagree with jimsgirl but I respect her rights to say what ever she wants and would love the chance to debate this with her. (I still need to be told why the US were the biggest fund raisers for the IRA terrorists)

 

I'm sorry, but 9/11 is still a big part of our lives.

[Salacia]

I'm sorry, but 9/11 is still a big part of our lives.

 

Yes, it is.

May God help us all.

[glojo]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

I am unaware that my country was the biggest fund raiser for the IRA. Would you please give a citation ? Perhaps you might also mention the on-going efforts by the USA for Peace Accords to end the Troubles - most recently by President Obama http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/408200/President-Obama-The-world-looks-at-Northern-Ireland-for-peace-blueprint

 

We didn't start the fire.

Hi Salacia,

I totally 100% accept America did not light any fire and this can be a very emotive subject that is best avoided. Regarding citations, all you need to do is understand that Sinn Fein is the official side for the IRA, and then look at the fund raising done by that organisation in the USA. Look at all the fund raising events held in the USA where invited guests have been leaders of that evil terrorist organisation. Lots and lots of names and all you need is a few minutes to research this. How can supporters of the IRA be officially allowed to raise funds for these murdering animals that revel in blowing up women and children? I am guessing you were aware of this and might not have needed those links?

 

Seaside gal,

I totally totally take your point regarding how explosives or weapons can be hidden under a burka but surely you can accept there has been no reported cases of this in America? It is pure fear and paranoia that is behind this hatred or dislike of women dressed in that awful dress (I don't personally like it but I will defend their right to wear it)

 

 

Again seaside gal and NO disrespect to you and please do not think I am picking on you but if we ban the burka should we ban the attire worn by nuns? click

 

I did smile when you describe London as being like a fortress... I am a royalist through and through and I admire how our Royal Family shun security (and yes I am FULLY aware of their protection) Look how they go 'walk-about' look at how they also travel in vehicles in full view of the public and sometimes with the windows of those vehicles open.

 

Yes Prince Charles was recently harassed by a drunken mob but that does not deter us and no way are we under siege. Of course there will be security but our police are the ones with the loaded guns :) (I have no idea if the soldier you saw had a loaded firearm and I am certainly not going to discuss this issue on a public forum)

 

What about all these horrible shootings we read about in the schools of America? Where are the concerns regarding this very real issue? Are you more worried about the threat of a woman wearing a burka? Yes she might have a concealed bomb but what are the odds compared to a young christian man going into your schools with an arsenal of weapons? what is the more likely?

 

I just looked at school shootings in the USA and here we are talking about a hypothetical 'what if' and yet where are the demonstrations against this slaughter of your youth

 

I am not picking on the USA, we have had a school shooting incident that stunned our small country and by crikey it saw action to try and prevent a similar act. A horrible, horrible incident

 

If you take away the Twin Towers massacre then has there been more killings in schools\universities than there has been by terrorists? I am not out to score points, I am simply curious as from the outside looking in it does appear that you have far more problems regarding this type of act as opposed to women wearing burkas?

 

I enjoy having chats with folks from other countries as it is the only way we can educate ourselves and whilst we are chatting.. Here is a thought: how much International sport is played by America against muslim dominated countries?

 

Sport is always a great fence breaker where the fans can mix, laugh, joke and cry ;) at the antics of their team.

 

The only way to defeat radical fanatics is to take away the fuel they use to spread their hatred. Treat strangers with the respect we would like to be shown and use our laws to deal with those that wish to do us harm. By that I am suggesting that locking up folks because they 'might' do something unlawful is only going to feed those that want to do us harm.

 

When I see images like this I have to ask what have we all done to see something like this?? What must be going through the mind of that mother to do this? No doubt some here will make light of this and not view it in the way I am but when things get to this level, there is only one answer... By coincidence is bears a resemblance to what I was saying about my experiences in Aden. A horrible, horrible image

 

I am described by my son as being slightly more right wing than Attila the Hun, I will never be intimidated or frightened by a perceived but illogical threat, but by crikey I will respect the rights of folk to wear a traditional item of clothing (not necessarily National clothing) I have no idea why anyone would really want to wear that dress and as I keep saying, I would love to chat with them as to why they do make that decision.

 

I know of elderly ladies smuggling drugs in loose clothing That could have ber explosives

 

I have heard about young men wearing shoes that have been converted into mini bombs powerful enough to blow-up an aircraft.

 

I have seen a number of young men with back packs that have been crammed full with explosives.

 

I know of young men, young women that have worn tailor made explosive body belts and blown themselves and others to pieces.

 

I have heard about ambulances being used by terrorists to escape from an incident. (personal knowledge)

 

Who should we fear the most?

 

Answer..

 

 

An elderly person behind the wheel of a motor vehicle

 

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

 

That statistic was for 2005.. Just one year and to me it seems unbelievable??? Hopefully you folks can rebutt those numbers as they are horrifying and here we are talking about one harmless lady wearing a burka!!

 

I respect how you protect your grand children and that is your choice but don't forget just how dangerous motor vehicles are and if your concern is genuine and not one of hysteria then I would suggest your offspring are in far more danger from the threat of travelling in a motor vehicle than being blown up by an act of terrorism? Over 42000 deaths in one year..

 

Just had a quick check

 

An estimated 25,580 Americans were killed in motor vehicle crashes during the first nine months of 2012.

 

Seaside Gal

I enjoy reading your posts, this is not, repeat NOT me having a go at you, it is me on my soapbox having a chat with folks like your very good self and of course others whose opinions I respect. My answers are from the heart (as are yours) they are not personal attacks on you or anyone else.

 

I hate all forms of terrorism be it from those who have been radicalised or those that want to unite a country that does not want to be united. A terrorist is a terrorist but the instant we start bullying the innocent, we then sadly loose our grip on that moral high ground that I value so dearly.

 

I love my country and I just wish my fellow citizens would respect both it and its flag the way I see in other Western countries. If folks don't like our life style, I just wish they would go elsewhere, go where they might find the grass to be greener!!

 

Many apologies if you feel I have been too personal as that is NOT my intent. I have simply used the points you kindly raised as references. I respect your stance and of course I respect how you look after your kith and kin ;)

[Underwatr]

I am unaware that my country was the biggest fund raiser for the IRA. Would you please give a citation ? Perhaps you might also mention the on-going efforts by the USA for Peace Accords to end the Troubles - most recently by President Obama http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/408200/President-Obama-The-world-looks-at-Northern-Ireland-for-peace-blueprint

 

We didn't start the fire.

There are more people of Irish descent living in the US than than in Ireland, which probably explains much of the rationale if not the fact.

[seasidegal]

 

Seaside gal,

I totally totally take your point regarding how explosives or weapons can be hidden under a burka but surely you can accept there has been no reported cases of this in America? It is pure fear and paranoia that is behind this hatred or dislike of women dressed in that awful dress (I don't personally like it but I will defend their right to wear it)

 

 

Again seaside gal and NO disrespect to you and please do not think I am picking on you but if we ban the burka should we ban the attire worn by nuns? click

 

I did smile when you describe London as being like a fortress... I am a royalist through and through and I admire how our Royal Family shun security (and yes I am FULLY aware of their protection) Look how they go 'walk-about' look at how they also travel in vehicles in full view of the public and sometimes with the windows of those vehicles open.

 

Yes Prince Charles was recently harassed by a drunken mob but that does not deter us and no way are we under siege. Of course there will be security but our police are the ones with the loaded guns :) (I have no idea if the soldier you saw had a loaded firearm and I am certainly not going to discuss this issue on a public forum)

 

What about all these horrible shootings we read about in the schools of America? Where are the concerns regarding this very real issue? Are you more worried about the threat of a woman wearing a burka? Yes she might have a concealed bomb but what are the odds compared to a young christian man going into your schools with an arsenal of weapons? what is the more likely?

 

I just looked at school shootings in the USA and here we are talking about a hypothetical 'what if' and yet where are the demonstrations against this slaughter of your youth

 

I am not picking on the USA, we have had a school shooting incident that stunned our small country and by crikey it saw action to try and prevent a similar act. A horrible, horrible incident

 

If you take away the Twin Towers massacre then has there been more killings in schools\universities than there has been by terrorists? I am not out to score points, I am simply curious as from the outside looking in it does appear that you have far more problems regarding this type of act as opposed to women wearing burkas?

 

I enjoy having chats with folks from other countries as it is the only way we can educate ourselves and whilst we are chatting.. Here is a thought: how much International sport is played by America against muslim dominated countries?

 

Sport is always a great fence breaker where the fans can mix, laugh, joke and cry ;) at the antics of their team.

 

The only way to defeat radical fanatics is to take away the fuel they use to spread their hatred. Treat strangers with the respect we would like to be shown and use our laws to deal with those that wish to do us harm. By that I am suggesting that locking up folks because they 'might' do something unlawful is only going to feed those that want to do us harm.

 

When I see images like this I have to ask what have we all done to see something like this?? What must be going through the mind of that mother to do this? No doubt some here will make light of this and not view it in the way I am but when things get to this level, there is only one answer... By coincidence is bears a resemblance to what I was saying about my experiences in Aden. A horrible, horrible image

 

I am described by my son as being slightly more right wing than Attila the Hun, I will never be intimidated or frightened by a perceived but illogical threat, but by crikey I will respect the rights of folk to wear a traditional item of clothing (not necessarily National clothing) I have no idea why anyone would really want to wear that dress and as I keep saying, I would love to chat with them as to why they do make that decision.

 

I know of elderly ladies smuggling drugs in loose clothing That could have ber explosives

 

I have heard about young men wearing shoes that have been converted into mini bombs powerful enough to blow-up an aircraft.

 

I have seen a number of young men with back packs that have been crammed full with explosives.

 

I know of young men, young women that have worn tailor made explosive body belts and blown themselves and others to pieces.

 

I have heard about ambulances being used by terrorists to escape from an incident. (personal knowledge)

 

Who should we fear the most?

 

Answer..

 

 

An elderly person behind the wheel of a motor vehicle

 

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

 

That statistic was for 2005.. Just one year and to me it seems unbelievable??? Hopefully you folks can rebutt those numbers as they are horrifying and here we are talking about one harmless lady wearing a burka!!

 

I respect how you protect your grand children and that is your choice but don't forget just how dangerous motor vehicles are and if your concern is genuine and not one of hysteria then I would suggest your offspring are in far more danger from the threat of travelling in a motor vehicle than being blown up by an act of terrorism? Over 42000 deaths in one year..

 

Just had a quick check

 

 

 

Seaside Gal

I enjoy reading your posts, this is not, repeat NOT me having a go at you, it is me on my soapbox having a chat with folks like your very good self and of course others whose opinions I respect. My answers are from the heart (as are yours) they are not personal attacks on you or anyone else.

 

I hate all forms of terrorism be it from those who have been radicalised or those that want to unite a country that does not want to be united. A terrorist is a terrorist but the instant we start bullying the innocent, we then sadly loose our grip on that moral high ground that I value so dearly.

 

I love my country and I just wish my fellow citizens would respect both it and its flag the way I see in other Western countries. If folks don't like our life style, I just wish they would go elsewhere, go where they might find the grass to be greener!!

 

Many apologies if you feel I have been too personal as that is NOT my intent. I have simply used the points you kindly raised as references. I respect your stance and of course I respect how you look after your kith and kin ;)

 

John,

 

I have no idea where to start to reply to your post but I think a good place would be this:

 

"It is pure fear and paranoia that is behind this hatred or dislike of women dressed in that awful dress"

 

I have no hatred of the dress, and I am do not go around living in fear and paranoia. We live our lives as we have before 9/11, just with more awareness of our surroundings. However, if anyone entered a store covered head to toe in any of kind way, I would vacate the store. As been mentioned up -thread, this covering has been used to commit crimes and it is a perfect cover-up to do so.

 

"but if we ban the burka should we ban the attire worn by nuns? click"

 

With the nuns, you can see their faces. You know if it is a woman or a man. You can make eye contact. That is very important. In regards, to the picture of the fake nuns, to be honest, I don't see nuns wearing the full habit anymore. Can't remember the last time I did over here. I am not Catholic so not aware of what is wore by nuns in their chapels now.

 

But in answer to your answer about banning the burka here....yes I would ban it. It is not a religious symbol.

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/the-burqa-is-not-a-religious-symbol-fnc-member

 

 

I did smile when you describe London as being like a fortress... I am a royalist through and through and I admire how our Royal Family shun security (and yes I am FULLY aware of their protection) Look how they go 'walk-about' look at how they also travel in vehicles in full view of the public and sometimes with the windows of those vehicles open.

 

John, I have no idea how the Royal Family came into this discussion about my reference to many government buildings being armed fortresses. (as many are here now also) and which, sadly, I completely understand the need for such protection). I was giving an example of how our lives have changed in the last years and how the soldiers were being cautious. Since you brought the Royal family up, however, I will say that if we had more leaders with Queen Elizabeth's strong qualities, the world would be much better served.

 

Are you more worried about the threat of a woman wearing a burka? Yes she might have a concealed bomb but what are the odds compared to a young christian man going into your schools with an arsenal of weapons? what is the more likely?

 

Not sure how the school issue or old people driving has anything to do with the original statement about someone wearing a burka on a cruise ship?

 

Yes, those school shootings are a tragedy beyond words and, of course, I'm concerned that this is the life our children are now forced with facing. Just reading about the constant shootings in Chicago makes me weep. However, how you got from the article you linked that this was a young Christian man, I can't figure out.

 

The article states: Adam Lanza, a loner who some said suffered from a personality disorder and possibly Asperger’s Syndrome. No where did it mention Adam doing this horrible act in the name of any religion. In fact, if my memory serves me right (which is very 'iffy' these days) Adam spent much of his time playing horrible violent video games, which I would say would contribute to what he did (as I feel it does to many of these shootings).

 

If you take away the Twin Towers massacre then has there been more killings in schools\universities than there has been by terrorists? I am not out to score points, I am simply curious as from the outside looking in it does appear that you have far more problems regarding this type of act as opposed to women wearing burkas?

 

John, you can NOT take way the Twin Towers massacre. Even as I type this the tears are falling picturing someone's loved ones jumping from the top of that building. Watching them fall to the ground. Seeing the horrible smoke engulf a city, that I love and grew up near, and frantic people running from the heat, and watching those brave firemen run into it.

 

The Twin Towers MASSACRE is a part of my life now. I look at firemen different (never appreciated them enough before watching their supreme bravery that day), making a reservation for my husband on a plane to travel, I look at differently now. Our lives are different now because of that day. It doesn't control us but it's aftermath is a part of us.

 

it does appear that you have far more problems regarding this type of act as opposed to women wearing burkas

 

(have no idea what you are trying to say to in the above quote it doesn't make sense to me )

 

The only way to defeat radical fanatics is to take away the fuel they use to spread their hatred. Treat strangers with the respect we would like to be shown and use our laws to deal with those that wish to do us harm. By that I am suggesting that locking up folks because they 'might' do something unlawful is only going to feed those that want to do us harm.

 

John,

 

Disliking a piece of clothing that hides the entire human body is not the same as not showing a person respect.

 

We have brought up our children to care deeply about others and be respectful of their beliefs and differences. My son came home from 3rd grade after being bullied for protecting a child of a different colour, and his first words to me, were "Mom, why didn't God make us all colour blind?" My kids say I would hug a rock as no one regardless of colour, etc. is not extended a hand and a hug when introduced. I'm sorry, if I'm reading you wrong, John, but you seem to come across as thinking you are a bit more moral or tolerant than those who feel that a piece of clothing that masks the sex and face of a person is not acceptable. If I've read you wrong, I'm sorry. But we have gone from wearing a burka on a ship to school shootings, the Royal family, the dangers of old folks on our highways, etc., ...and even to this:

 

A terrorist is a terrorist but the instant we start bullying the innocent, we then sadly loose our grip on that moral high ground that I value so dearly

 

Bullying is an action I detest. To suggest that I'm bullying someone just because I desire to see their face and their sex undermines the true horrible consequences of truly being bullied. I’m sorry, John, if again I’m reading you wrong, but your high ground seems to have you looking down from above on others who feel they have rightfully held concerns over a safety issue.

 

I hope, John, we can now move on from this issue. You have your opinion and I have mine. Let's leave it at that between us, I would appreciate that and thank you for it.

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[keithm]

Apparently you are allowed to be offended but for your own safety, please do not enter into their country and even attempt to wear your choice of clothing.

Trust me, I have NO desire to visit any Muslim country in the Middle East. In Asia, perhaps Malaysia/Indonesia. Not as radical as a whole. Mainly due to large Chinese & Indian minorities. My spouse is from Kuching Malaysia-He's Chinese. I see plenty of Burka headware here. Just not the total head to toe black, with eye slits. Sorry, but it still creeps me out.This is not the same as offends me. Notice how you said "for your own safety do not attempt to enter their country in your choice of clothing". Hmmmm what does that tell all of us? Say something negative about Jesus & people get PO'Ed. Say something negative about Mohammed & people die. Care to defend that??

[Pushka]

Indonesia's got a very large (if not the highest in the world) number of Muslims and sadly a few are very militant. Bali bombings. Twice. Jakarta. Multiple. The bombs were in backpacks. I'm actually much more concerned about a backpack than a burqa because they are so common and insignificant that people ignore them. They are easy to throw. Which is what happened in each of the Bali bombings.

 

Having said that, if I was travelling in the USA I'd be more concerned about getting caught up in random gun violence than a religious inspired terrorist act.

 

In Indonesia, I remain very vigilant. And stay away from crowds. But that's hard to do at the airport. I'm there in 2 weeks and am always aware of potential situations.

[Austcruiser84]

Trust me, I have NO desire to visit any Muslim country in the Middle East. In Asia, perhaps Malaysia/Indonesia. Not as radical as a whole. Mainly due to large Chinese & Indian minorities. My spouse is from Kuching Malaysia-He's Chinese. I see plenty of Burka headware here. Just not the total head to toe black, with eye slits. Sorry, but it still creeps me out.This is not the same as offends me. Notice how you said "for your own safety do not attempt to enter their country in your choice of clothing". Hmmmm what does that tell all of us? Say something negative about Jesus & people get PO'Ed. Say something negative about Mohammed & people die. Care to defend that??

 

I actually found the UAE to be a very welcoming country. They even had Christmas trees around at Christmas!

 

The people (locals and fly in workers) were a lot nicer than, say the French (in my experience).

[Salacia]

Trust me, I have NO desire to visit any Muslim country in the Middle East. In Asia, perhaps Malaysia/Indonesia. Not as radical as a whole. Mainly due to large Chinese & Indian minorities. My spouse is from Kuching Malaysia-He's Chinese. I see plenty of Burka headware here. Just not the total head to toe black, with eye slits. Sorry, but it still creeps me out.This is not the same as offends me. Notice how you said "for your own safety do not attempt to enter their country in your choice of clothing". Hmmmm what does that tell all of us? Say something negative about Jesus & people get PO'Ed. Say something negative about Mohammed & people die. Care to defend that??

 

Sadly, the madness continues to spread. I won't try and parse the story of Buddists going on a rampage in Myanmar, but you can read it here http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/world/asia/buddhists-get-prison-terms-in-myanmar.html?ref=world

 

Madness.

[Aussieflyer]

<snip>Trust me, I have NO desire to visit any Muslim country in the Middle East. In Asia, perhaps Malaysia/Indonesia. Not as radical as a whole. <snip>

 

I on the only hand will not visit the US under any circumstances - this is not the forum for political discussions so I will not elaborate.

 

I would prefer to see discussion focus on cruising as I think it is very easy to become caught up in posting opinions that a) are highly subjective b) can be offensive c) can polarise any topic and d) just plain have nothing to do with the original topic.

My thoughts.

[keithm]

Indonesia's got a very large (if not the highest in the world) number of Muslims and sadly a few are very militant. Bali bombings. Twice. Jakarta. Multiple. The bombs were in backpacks. I'm actually much more concerned about a backpack than a burqa because they are so common and insignificant that people ignore them. They are easy to throw. Which is what happened in each of the Bali bombings.

 

Having said that, if I was travelling in the USA I'd be more concerned about getting caught up in random gun violence than a religious inspired terrorist act.

 

In Indonesia, I remain very vigilant. And stay away from crowds. But that's hard to do at the airport. I'm there in 2 weeks and am always aware of potential situations.

That's the thing to do when traveling anywhere. Just be aware of your surroundings & be cautious.

[keithm]

I actually found the UAE to be a very welcoming country. They even had Christmas trees around at Christmas!

 

The people (locals and fly in workers) were a lot nicer than, say the French (in my experience).

Oh!! It's ALWAYS the FRENCH!! LOL! Obviously any group has it's nut cases. It's just some really know how to get the world's attention better than others.