Riviera -Just back

[caviargal]

We returned very late Saturday night from 2 weeks in Italy, one of which was spent on the Riviera. It was our first cruise cruise with O.

 

I will be submitting a detailed review very soon but did want to post that we very much enjoyed the O experience. We are not avid ocean cruisers as cruising has for the most part evolved into an experience we do not enjoy. O, however, provided the type of onboard experience and overall quality that we appreciate. Rooms, service, food quality and options, passenger demographic, ship layout and decor, staterooms and attention to detail were all top notch. We appreciated the lack of children, lack of photographers, lack of poolside antics and noise, lack of lines - we enjoyed O as much for what it was not as much as for what it was.

 

Our itinerary was The Ionian passage and most of the ports we visited were very touristy, as can be expected with ports popular with cruise lines. :( This is the main reason we prefer independent land trips to cruises overall when visiting the Med.

 

We used private tour companies and had very good experiences with them overall. Getting away from the hordes and seeing the countryside was a huge benefit. It had been about 25 years since I had visited Sorrento, the Amalfi Coast and Taormina and the first two were a huge disappointment as they have been completely changed by tourism and not for the better. We had little time in Taormina as we had to dock in Messina instead due to tendering conditions. Zakynthos as a port was the worst of the lot, with no charm IMO and little to offer. Conversations with other guests indicated they felt the same. Venice was even worse than it was in 2008, with the people mover providing easy access to the thousands of passengers on the 4 ships in port at the time. We walked the city for hours and many of the streets felt more like a flea market than anything. We were very happy to leave after overnighting there and were very pleased with our hotel choice, in a quiet area near the Papadopoli Gardens which provided respite from the masses.

 

Our favorite part of the trip was our time before the cruise spent in Milan and Liguria. Liguria was stunning and we were delighted with our time in Rapallo and wish we could have stayed longer. My last stay in Rapallo was in 2006 and I was delighted to see that it has retained its charm.

 

Should we decide to do an ocean cruise again in the future, Oceania would definitely be a great option. But for the Med, we prefer to visit the towns and cities not popular with cruise ships. We plan a return to Italy in 2015 to spend more time in Liguria and Sicily.

 

The ports visited were not the highlight of this trip for us. But the Riviera itself was delightful and we would look forward to cruising with O again at some point in the future.

[cpinstein]

Can you please email me and let me know how you got to Taormina? Did you use the shop transfers or book someone independently?

 

Carole

cpinstein@gmail.com

[brian_uk]

I can only tell you that when we were last there, the lines for the shuttles were long and we took a taxi to the town, sharing the ride with another couple. More expensive but far quicker.

 

Brian

[cpinstein]

Unfortunately, we will be there on a Sunday, and I'm a little afraid of public transportation. Any thoughts?

[caviargal]

Carole,

 

We used Sicily Life and they were excellent!

 

We notified them the day before our arrival of the port change and they met us in Messina for a very nominal increase in cost. It was our best tour of the trip.

 

info@sicilylife.com

http://www.sicilylife.com

[JPR]

I recommend that you try to go to Umbria and stay at the wonderful Villa di Monte Solare in the Umbrian hills. Perfect jumping off point for visiting the medieval/Renaissance towns of Assisi, Orvieto, Perugia, Gubbio, Spelo, etc.

[caviargal]

JPR, thanks for the suggestion. We have spent time in Orvieto and Assisi and enjoyed both.

 

We do prefer hotels to villas overall as most are out of the city center; we will not drive in Italy and prefer to be near public transport or in easy walking or taxi distance to dining, etc.

[Hambagahle]

Caviargal -

 

I was most interested in your review or summation re your cruise. You stated our feelings entirely! We loved the Riviera, loved Oceania (were very very impressed in fact!) but we don't like port-intensive cruises by and large. And we hate mob scenes. For this reason we are pretty much confining ourselves to Trans-Atlantic cruises these days. We love the sea days, lectures, cooking classes etc.

 

As for Italy and the ports - we can drive to Italy in under an hour from where we live. About 3 hours gets us to Liguria either east or west of Genova. And I share, entirely, your feelings about this area. Rapallo and Sta Margarita are wonderful. (Portofino is not!) Sestri Levante at the southern end of the same bay is lovely too so I suggest that on your next trip to the area you add it to your list. Not only is it a very pretty place but it makes a wonderful base for a couple of day trips to the Cinque Terre.

 

And if you haven't been to Lucca you might try that for a couple of days as well.

[caviargal]

Caviargal -

 

 

As for Italy and the ports - we can drive to Italy in under an hour from where we live. About 3 hours gets us to Liguria either east or west of Genova. And I share, entirely, your feelings about this area. Rapallo and Sta Margarita are wonderful. (Portofino is not!) Sestri Levante at the southern end of the same bay is lovely too so I suggest that on your next trip to the area you add it to your list. Not only is it a very pretty place but it makes a wonderful base for a couple of day trips to the Cinque Terre.

 

And if you haven't been to Lucca you might try that for a couple of days as well.

 

We visited Sestri Levante (a holiday destination for my Florentine friends, and how I first learned about this area) and Camogli this trip and enjoyed both, but fell in love with Camogli. We got there early and the public market had just opened. We had a lovely time there and also enjoyed watching the fishermen bringing in their catch of the day.

 

At Sestri, we had a wonderful lunch at Polpo Mario.

 

We have never cared for Portofino but do enjoy SML to visit. Our preference to stay is definitely Rapallo.

 

I also enjoyed my time in Genova a few years ago.

 

We are big fans of this part of Italy and for us it beats the AC and Sorrento hands down.

[moyaroo]

I was on that trip and we docked in Messina due to "weather" conditions BS I am pretty sure as I had access to weather reports when they were claiming trouble it was forecasting clear and calm. I think they had a inspection while we were in port but can't be sure. Anyway from Messina the ship excursions were all of a sudden very reasonable and on your own a difficult quick trip to the train station and three hour in T and then race back to the ship.

[caviargal]

I was on that trip and we docked in Messina due to "weather" conditions BS I am pretty sure as I had access to weather reports when they were claiming trouble it was forecasting clear and calm. I think they had a inspection while we were in port but can't be sure. Anyway from Messina the ship excursions were all of a sudden very reasonable and on your own a difficult quick trip to the train station and three hour in T and then race back to the ship.

 

The weather and water conditions in Taormina were perfect and I agree that it was BS to claim rough water conditions.

 

We were able to switch our private tour but our time in Taormina was cut short and that was disappointing.

[S O B]

...Venice was even worse than it was in 2008, with the people mover providing easy access to the thousands of passengers on the 4 ships in port at the time. We walked the city for hours and many of the streets felt more like a flea market than anything. We were very happy to leave after overnighting there and were very pleased with our hotel choice, in a quiet area near the Papadopoli Gardens which provided respite from the masses....

 

We were on the same cruise and have also seen Venice several times in the past. I don't think you can get off a cruise ship with 1200 others and then complain that the city's overrun with tourists--aren't we contributors to the problem? LOL. I'm reminded of Yogi Berra's quote "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

 

The world population is expanding and there's more people than ever travelling. The Duke of Wellington once complained of the spread of railroads because "they will only encourage the lower classes to move about needlessly." Harrumph!

 

We loved seeing Venice again no matter how many others shared it with us. It's a beautiful, magnificent place that moves me every time I'm fortunate to see it again. I read in Rick Steeve's guide that the population of Venice is now only 30,000, down 50% in only the past 30 years. Soon it will be empty of local citizens and be only a theme park for visitors. Pity.

[orchestrapal]

We were on the same cruise and have also seen . I'm reminded of Yogi Berra's quote "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

We loved seeing Venice again no matter how many others shared it with us. It's a beautiful, magnificent place that moves me every time I'm fortunate to see it again. I read in Rick Steeve's guide that the population of Venice is now only 30,000, down 50% in only the past 30 years. Soon it will be empty of local citizens and be only a theme park for visitors. Pity.

 

So many nooks and crannies to explore in Venice as well as out of the way museums that always seem to be empty. The best of everything seems to be off the beaten track where we have enjoyed many open spaces even when the major highlights are overrun.

[caviargal]

We can agree to disagree about Venice. It remains one of my least favorite cities in Italy.

 

I have visited Italy 20+ times (mostly on independent land trips) since 1972. I fell in love with Italy at an early age but Venice has never been magical to me;we stayed there for one night this trip and then only because flights dictated it.

 

The new people mover makes it very convenient for the thousands of cruise ship passengers to get easy access to the city. The new bridge was a constant parade of traffic. I can only imagine the city in peak months. It is more of a theme park then ever.

 

In speaking with a local shopkeeper, a Venetian, I learned that immigration continues to be a huge problem in Venice and indeed many of the shops and kiosks were manned by Chinese and many of the leather shops offered goods made with Chinese leather and assembled in Italy. The Venetians are gradually leaving and the city is being overtaken by tourists and immigrants. I have witnessed many changes since my first visit to Venice 40 years ago.

 

For me, Italy is best visited by land and I prefer to spend my time in the less touristy areas of the country. Others will certainly have different opinions and priorities.

[caviargal]

We can agree to disagree about Venice and it is one of my least favorite cities in Italy.

 

We did not close the major tourist sites as we have been there, done that, and had no interest in repeating them.

 

I have visited Italy 20+ times (mostly on independent land trips) and Venice 7 times since 1972. I have always loved Italy but Venice has never been magical to me;we only stayed there for one night this time and then only because flights dictated it. Prices IMO are very high and you do not get much for your money.

 

The new people mover makes it very convenient for the thousands of cruise ship passengers to get easy access to the city. The new bridge was a constant parade of traffic.

 

In speaking with a local shopkeeper, I learned that immigration continues to be a huge problem in Venice and indeed many of the shops and kiosks were manned by Chinese and many of the leather shops offered goods made with Chinese leather and assembled in Italy.

 

For me, Italy is best visited by land and I prefer to spend my time in the less touristy areas of the country. Others will certainly have different opinions and priorities and that is what makes the world go round.