Dogs on Ships

[Ex techie]

My dog and I are a TEAM. We work together, everywhere. He assists me in every aspect of my life. At home, at the theatre, in the market and at work, anywhere I go, he goes.

I have learned in the 11 years that I have worked with a Service Dog, that there are all types of people that he and I will encounter. There are people who are very polite and ask if they can touch my dog. There are the people who want to know everything about my dog "only". And, the folks who want to know everything about me "only". There are people who will try and steal a pat when I'm not looking and those who will make weird noises at him just to see what he will do. There are children who will politely ask if they can touch him and those that will run right into his face and "bear-hug" him. Then there's the humans; adult and children alike who are so terrified of dogs that they will scream at the sight of me walking towards them, with him tightly on a leash. While on a cruise, there have been folks who literally lay down on the floor, next to him.

 

And that should not happen. More education to adults and children alike should be provided as these animals are working, not out for a walk with their owner.

 

When you separate him from me you are sending him a message that he's not needed by me. Like; when he goes to the groomer, when he's at the vet, when I go off to the ladies room and leave him to sleep in his crate. He's watching every movement and every minute. We're partners, I need him; he knows it. He gets rewarded for doing his job and my reward is a better life and his company.

We play together, we walk, we lay down together and we talk. Again, we're a TEAM. To watch a Service Dog and his Handler is an amazing, brilliant dance!

 

Is your dog a guide dog for your sight or for another reason?

 

ex techie

[wizard-of-roz]

Horton is my Service Dog. I am not blind. Although, my first SD, Brenda, would manuever herself directly in front of me, when we were walking through a crowd and to others watching us she would appear to be a Guide Dog. It was a defensive maneuver that she adopted all by herself. Nobody trained her to do it. I encouraged the behavior as it kept people from stepping on and pushing her. Once we were out of the crowd we would assume our normal positions. Which is her/him at my left side.

[Ex techie]

So Horton isn't needed at the dining table, nor in a theatre as you are seated and in the company of others?

 

But you say that

When you separate him from me you are sending him a message that he's not needed by me. Like; when he goes to the groomer, when he's at the vet, when I go off to the ladies room and leave him to sleep in his crate.

 

I'm struggling to understand why you can be separated from him when he is at the groomer's and he is okay with the message that he is not needed by you, but a restaurant or theatre environment is not okay?

 

I totally get, understand and love doggies, and accept them at the dining table for those that need them as they are AWAYS so well behaved.

 

But I have to say sitting next to a horse, even a miniature one would be over the line for me in a theatre or dining room.

 

Both animals have a place and I am so grateful that they are both able to serve you and provide you with the assistance you need.

But as you said before they are sweet, more so as they are unusual, and therefore they will cause a larger distraction and attention, especially at a dining table or in a theatre.

And how distracted would a 4 yr old be seated next to or across the aisle from a miniature horse watching a Disney show?

 

If those two environments mean you do not need their assistance, then why can they not stand down?

(obviously seizure, diabetes etc dogs are not included, or horses if they can too?)

 

ex techie

[wizard-of-roz]

So Horton isn't needed at the dining table, nor in a theatre as you are seated and in the company of others?

 

But you say that

 

I'm struggling to understand why you can be separated from him when he is at the groomer's and he is okay with the message that he is not needed by you, but a restaurant or theatre environment is not okay?

 

I totally get, understand and love doggies, and accept them at the dining table for those that need them as they are AWAYS so well behaved.

 

But I have to say sitting next to a horse, even a miniature one would be over the line for me in a theatre or dining room.

 

Both animals have a place and I am so grateful that they are both able to serve you and provide you with the assistance you need.

But as you said before they are sweet, more so as they are unusual, and therefore they will cause a larger distraction and attention, especially at a dining table or in a theatre.

And how distracted would a 4 yr old be seated next to or across the aisle from a miniature horse watching a Disney show?

 

If those two environments mean you do not need their assistance, then why can they not stand down?

(obviously seizure, diabetes etc dogs are not included, or horses if they can too?)

 

ex techie

 

Horton is NEEDED by me everywhere. We can be separated safely for short periods only and when I have someone [human] with me. Horton allows me and others to be independent. I would prefer NEVER but that's not realistic.

When children as well as adults are taught that these animals serve a purpose for others, it's amazing what they will accept.

[Ex techie]

Horton is NEEDED by me everywhere. We can be separated safely for short periods only and when I have someone [human] with me. Horton allows me and others to be independent. I would prefer NEVER but that's not realistic.

When children as well as adults are taught that these animals serve a purpose for others, it's amazing what they will accept.

 

So "if" Horton was a miniature horse, the humans sitting next to you in the dining room, and the servers, or the person sitting next to you in a theatre would not be sufficient in his absence?

 

ex techie

[wizard-of-roz]

So "if" Horton was a miniature horse, the humans sitting next to you in the dining room, and the servers, or the person sitting next to you in a theatre would not be sufficient in his absence?

 

ex techie

 

Unless they were specifially trained, NO! My DH was wonderful at assisting me but he couldn't always be with me and he passed away this past April.

Edited November 12, 2013 by wizard-of-roz

[Ex techie]

Unless they were specifially trained, NO! My DH was wonderful at assisting me but he couldn't always be with me and he passed away this past April.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your Husband passing.

It sounds like you have more needs than just being mobile then.

 

I won't ask anymore questions. I just do not understand what you are trying to convey about the miniature horses.

 

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

ex techie

[e2011]

This is a tough topic. While I understand the need for service animals and I thank God I don't need one, the fact remains that the ADA laws seem a bit discriminatory. I read the ADA web site tonight and it talks about how someone being allergic to a dog is NOT grounds to isolate the person an their animal or to deny them entrance into an establishment. It further state that they must NOT place the person and their animal in a "special section". I have a real problem with this. My nephew is severely allergic to dog dander. If he were forced to sit with a dog at his table on a cruise ship he would begin a coughing and sneezing fit culminating in him throwing up and choking. So of course the question is who do you move to another table. The child with the allergy or the person with the service dog. The law says you should not move the service dog yet the dog is the clearly unusual guest to the dinner table. The humans are not. But the law goes over board in protecting the ADA person which simply is not fair. Many people are allergic or scared of dogs and perhaps miniature horses. I think most people who need these animals would not feel slighted if they had to sit in a special section. I can you tell you this. My nephews right to have a cruise without having a dander induced attack is just as important as any one else's rights. No less.

[Ex techie]

I hope you can see that whilst a miniature horse may provide assistance in a lot of circumstances, to the general public it is still considered livestock and not appropriate at the dinner table, and would attract a lot of attention from small children during both a dining environment and a performance. A lot more so than a service dog. And that does't diminish the daily ritual you have to go through with Horton.

 

Better awareness is key, but as dog are largely domesticated, the introduction of miniature horses (regardless of the benefits) will be a slower and longer process to become the norm.

 

I wish you and Horton all the best :)

 

ex techie

[wizard-of-roz]

I'm sorry to hear about your Husband passing.

It sounds like you have more needs than just being mobile then.

 

I won't ask anymore questions. I just do not understand what you are trying to convey about the miniature horses.

 

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

ex techie

 

Thank you! :) My wonderful Service Dog has been a great comfort to me!

[wizard-of-roz]

This is a tough topic. While I understand the need for service animals and I thank God I don't need one, the fact remains that the ADA laws seem a bit discriminatory. I read the ADA web site tonight and it talks about how someone being allergic to a dog is NOT grounds to isolate the person an their animal or to deny them entrance into an establishment. It further state that they must NOT place the person and their animal in a "special section". I have a real problem with this. My nephew is severely allergic to dog dander. If he were forced to sit with a dog at his table on a cruise ship he would begin a coughing and sneezing fit culminating in him throwing up and choking. So of course the question is who do you move to another table. The child with the allergy or the person with the service dog. The law says you should not move the service dog yet the dog is the clearly unusual guest to the dinner table. The humans are not. But the law goes over board in protecting the ADA person which simply is not fair. Many people are allergic or scared of dogs and perhaps miniature horses. I think most people who need these animals would not feel slighted if they had to sit in a special section. I can you tell you this. My nephews right to have a cruise without having a dander induced attack is just as important as any one else's rights. No less.

 

If someone were to ask me to please take Horton and myself elsewhere because of their highly allergic nephew......I wouldn't hesitate to leave and go elsewhere. We should be comfortable and happy in our environment and especially while were vacationing.

I go out into the world, hopefully, to make new friends and be social. If my presence is upsetting someone, I'm more than happy to move and relocate.

I'm so sorry about your nephew's allergies, they can be so troublesome. I know, I too, have allergies.

[Ex techie]

wizard-of-roz,

 

I think you are taking that out of context.

e2011 was just stating that doggie dander can cause an issue for their nephew.

 

It just seems odd to us regular folk why Horton cannot take some time out when you are eating or watching a movie, or a production as he is used to time away when being groomed.

 

I'm sure he is so bored of listening to the soundtrack of Disney Dreams and the GM's as well! lol! He can probably pat the tune with his paws! lol!

 

as long as he is a service dog and not an emotional support etc doggie, then I have no problem in either location.

Just no horses.

 

ex techie

[e2011]

If someone were to ask me to please take Horton and myself elsewhere because of their highly allergic nephew......I wouldn't hesitate to leave and go elsewhere. We should be comfortable and happy in our environment and especially while were vacationing.

I go out into the world, hopefully, to make new friends and be social. If my presence is upsetting someone, I'm more than happy to move and relocate.

I'm so sorry about your nephew's allergies, they can be so troublesome. I know, I too, have allergies.

 

You are a kind and thoughtful person. I wish everyone were like you and we could all just have fun! Happy Cruising and pets to Horton!

[wizard-of-roz]

You are a kind and thoughtful person. I wish everyone were like you and we could all just have fun! Happy Cruising and pets to Horton!

 

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

I HEART Horton

[wizard-of-roz]

I HEART Horton

 

Awwwww! Right back at you. Horton will be on his third cruise on April 19th, onboard the Crown Princess. If you ever met him, you'd love him more. He's a huge, handsome, thoughtful, funny and amazingly brilliant Black Lab/Golden Retriever. He has such a great personality and is a wonderful working partner.

Joy to your world,

Love & Licks,

Roz & Horton

[meatloafsfan]

I think most people who need these animals would not feel slighted if they had to sit in a special section. I can you tell you this.

 

I disagree. People who require accomodations due to disabilities have struggled for integration. My mother is a full time wheelchair user, I find the "separate sections" are usually not the same as "regular sections". For instance, seating in the WDW theatre on the Fantasy for anyone who must remain in their chair is at the very top of the theatre on Deck 4 - we were watching the pre-show for the hypnotist and one of the questions was "How many F's can you count?" We counted 4 - the correct answer was something like 11 - that's when we realized that we could only see half of the projection screens at the side of theatre. You'd be surprised how many times you're sitting there and are missing some of the special touches because of the seating designated for wheelchairs. I wouldn't anticipate that the "special seating" for service animals would be any better. And let's not forget the back entrance for wheelchairs to Royal Palace/Royal Court/Tritons (and whatever it is now on the Magic). Able bodies persons get a grand entrance, wheelchairs get a small side door. Do you really think that it would be any different if service animals weren't integrated?

 

 

wizard-of-roz,

 

It just seems odd to us regular folk why Horton cannot take some time out when you are eating or watching a movie, or a production as he is used to time away when being groomed.

 

I'm sure he is so bored of listening to the soundtrack of Disney Dreams and the GM's as well! lol! He can probably pat the tune with his paws! lol!

 

as long as he is a service dog and not an emotional support etc doggie, then I have no problem in either location.

Just no horses.

 

ex techie

 

Would you insist on someone leaving their crutches or wheelchair outside of the theatre as well?

 

What if she had to get up during a performance? What about an animal who senses seizures or blood sugar/insulin issues?

 

Assistive devices become part of the person using them. Service Animals aren't acessories to be removed or dropped off when not in use - they are always in use (except when performing maintence - like the animal eating, using the bathroom or being groomed).

Edited November 13, 2013 by meatloafsfan

[wizard-of-roz]

I disagree. People who require accomodations due to disabilities have struggled for integration. My mother is a full time wheelchair user, I find the "separate sections" are usually not the same as "regular sections". For instance, seating in the WDW theatre on the Fantasy for anyone who must remain in their chair is at the very top of the theatre on Deck 4 - we were watching the pre-show for the hypnotist and one of the questions was "How many F's can you count?" We counted 4 - the correct answer was something like 11 - that's when we realized that we could only see half of the projection screens at the side of theatre. You'd be surprised how many times you're sitting there and are missing some of the special touches because of the seating designated for wheelchairs. I wouldn't anticipate that the "special seating" for service animals would be any better. And let's not forget the back entrance for wheelchairs to Royal Palace/Royal Court/Tritons (and whatever it is now on the Magic). Able bodies persons get a grand entrance, wheelchairs get a small side door. Do you really think that it would be any different if service animals weren't integrated?

 

 

 

 

Would you insist on someone leaving their crutches or wheelchair outside of the theatre as well?

 

What if she had to get up during a performance? What about an animal who senses seizures or blood sugar/insulin issues?

 

Assistive devices become part of the person using them. Service Animals aren't acessories to be removed or dropped off when not in use - they are always in use (except when performing maintence - like the animal eating, using the bathroom or being groomed).

 

Horton is part of me, he's truly my assistive device. It means I have to make an extra effort to be in the theatre a little bit earlier than most folks, so that I can scope-out a good seat for both of us. Usually one where he won't be in the way of others. Horton knows he's part of me and I want to sit, eat and sleep where the rest of the folks do. I don't want to be treated any differently.

One time we entered the MDR, onboard a cruise ship, and a man at our table didn't like having my dog there so I asked for another table, the waiter took us to a table by the kitchen, where the staff would keep their extra silverware and napkins. I asked for the Matre d' and told him that I would NOT be dining in the MDR for the rest of the cruise. I told him that I had brought a lot of money in tips to be given to my servers, as well as to him. But, because they treated me with such disregard I would not be needing their services any longer. We ate in the buffet for the rest of our 14 day cruise.

Courtesy and kindness goes a long way in my book. They could have gotten us a table for 4, where Horton could lay under the table easily and it didn't have to be in an out-of-the-way unpleasant area for either one of us. They just didn't try and that says a lot about them.

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

Horton can come sit by me. I always want to say hi but I feel bad because they say not to distract them so I don't, but I love them. We were at a movie theater and had a handsome fella behind us. The whole section giggled when you could hear his collar ding from scratching or his tail thump from wagging. We all thought it was cute. No one minded at all. Who cares about a movie ya know? Also they just sat wherever they wanted (I don't think there was a wheel chair so they could sit in the main audience section.)

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forums mobile app

Edited November 13, 2013 by TwinPrincessMermaids

[wizard-of-roz]

Thank you. Because Horton is so black, he's very hard to see on the floor, in a dark room. I'm very careful not to put him where he can be tripped over.

The most fun is watching people, in the dining room who didn't see him go under the table, then watching their faces when he comes out. It's a real candid camera moment! :p

[Scrapnana]

This thread has been very informative. I had no idea that minature horses served in the same capacity as service dogs or that "seeing eye dogs" were only those from one specific organization.

[Ex techie]

Would you insist on someone leaving their crutches or wheelchair outside of the theatre as well?

 

What if she had to get up during a performance? What about an animal who senses seizures or blood sugar/insulin issues?

 

Assistive devices become part of the person using them. Service Animals aren't acessories to be removed or dropped off when not in use - they are always in use (except when performing maintence - like the animal eating, using the bathroom or being groomed).

 

Obviously I wouldn't insist on someone leaving their crutches or wheelchair outside, and if you read my posts I said I have no problem with service dogs.

 

as long as he is a service dog and not an emotional support etc doggie, then I have no problem in either location.

Just no horses.

 

I totally get, understand and love doggies, and accept them at the dining table for those that need them as they are AWAYS so well behaved.

 

But I have to say sitting next to a horse, even a miniature one would be over the line for me in a theatre or dining room.

 

So I have no problem with service dogs at the dinner table, in a theatre or any other space. I asked why they cannot have a little time out and wizard-of-roz has replied.

 

BUT I would have a problem eating my dinner next to a horse.

Good for you if you don't.

 

ex techie

[sparky-elpaso]

Horton is part of me, he's truly my assistive device. It means I have to make an extra effort to be in the theatre a little bit earlier than most folks, so that I can scope-out a good seat for both of us. Usually one where he won't be in the way of others. Horton knows he's part of me and I want to sit, eat and sleep where the rest of the folks do. I don't want to be treated any differently.

 

One time we entered the MDR, onboard a cruise ship, and a man at our table didn't like having my dog there so I asked for another table, the waiter took us to a table by the kitchen, where the staff would keep their extra silverware and napkins. I asked for the Matre d' and told him that I would NOT be dining in the MDR for the rest of the cruise. I told him that I had brought a lot of money in tips to be given to my servers, as well as to him. But, because they treated me with such disregard I would not be needing their services any longer. We ate in the buffet for the rest of our 14 day cruise.

 

Courtesy and kindness goes a long way in my book. They could have gotten us a table for 4, where Horton could lay under the table easily and it didn't have to be in an out-of-the-way unpleasant area for either one of us. They just didn't try and that says a lot about them.

 

If he didn't like Horton it's his problem so he should get the bad table. :mad: I would love to share a table with you guys.

[meatloafsfan]

BUT I would have a problem eating my dinner next to a horse.

Good for you if you don't.ex techie

 

It's not a horse, it's a minature horse - generally they are no larger or intrusive than a large dog (like a Lab or Collie).

 

It's not Mr Ed we're talking about, it's his mini-me cousin.

[wizard-of-roz]

It's not a horse, it's a minature horse - generally they are no larger or intrusive than a large dog (like a Lab or Collie).

 

It's not Mr Ed we're talking about, it's his mini-me cousin.

 

Horton, at his weight of 90 lbs-can weigh more than a minature horse. But, again, it's all about desentsitizing the general public.

I, too, would be amazed, as well as delighted if I saw a minature horse in a super market......they're so adorably cute!