Dodgem Cars and the modern day cruise ship

[glojo]

Glojo

 

I don't know about the other western nations - but here in Australia, the first of the "baby boomers" have been released from captivity and there are about 4 million more of them to be released over the next 20 years ( personally I think that the definition of boomers - which I think goes out until about a birth date of 1964 is too broad). Many/most of these people are at the end of their working lives, are quite comfortable and are intending to "see the World" and SKI (spend their kid's inheritance!)

 

I don't think that an additional global cruising capacity of an extra 20,000 seats will be enough!:)

 

Barry

Clearly the owners of the cruise lines have the same opinion and it is an increase of at least 20,000 passengers per year. On a Global point that is possibly a tiny number, but how many ships are sailing without a full complement of passengers, then how many passengers on these ships are paying the full price of the cruise? I am guessing no one expects a ship to be fully laden, but would they expect to be only 75-80% full?

 

I am NOT disagreeing with you and am simply curious as to the answer.

 

Do we get to hear of the exact compliment of passengers or is it more of a generalisation.. 10% from Mars, 40% from Pluto, 30% from the Moon and no actual numbers? That is NOT me suggesting numbers are not released, I am just curious as to numbers of passengers that sail on these beautiful ships. (be they mountain climbing giants, or Silversea limousines.

 

I thought the baby 'boom' was all about the rise in the birth rate after the male population came from from the Second World War and got 'reacquainted' with members of the opposite sex:eek:;) I wonder why there wasn't one of these 'baby booms' after the First World War? :o I am guessing the male population had been decimated and that boom was nature's way of levelling the playing field but that is just me making an uneducated guess :o;)

[bazzaw]

 

I thought the baby 'boom' was all about the rise in the birth rate after the male population came from from the Second World War and got 'reacquainted' with members of the opposite sex:eek:;)

 

Yes -- my mother told me that when my father came home from the war (in the Pacific) , the second bang was the sound of the front door closing :)

 

re -- occupancy rates on cruiseships. Most/all? that we have sailed on regardless of location appear to have been quite full. Of course this, I think, is achieved by the "dynamic pricing" policies of the different cruiselines - a practice that I totally support ( as a babyboomer, I do remember the "fixed price" - take it or leave it past practices of businesses and much prefer the current competitive practices). BTW, competition exists not only between businesses but also between the customers of those businesses. Everything in life is a competition :)

 

Also BTW -- I am not sure that the BB market is indeed the one that the cruiselines are thinking about -- perhaps many of the "innovations" of these new cruiseships are not really the kind of things that BB's are looking for?

 

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

Do we get to hear of the exact compliment of passengers or is it more of a generalisation.. 10% from Mars, 40% from Pluto, 30% from the Moon and no actual numbers? That is NOT me suggesting numbers are not released, I am just curious as to numbers of passengers that sail on these beautiful ships. (be they mountain climbing giants, or Silversea limousines.

 

 

On a recent RCI cruise out of Sydney, up the Queensland coast - which is normally quite popular with many Aussies who don't have passports, we were a bit amazed to find that out of 2200 passengers, only 700 were Australian. The rest were from Canada US and UK -- with 1200 approx alone from Canada :eek:

 

Barry

[balf]

 

I don't think that an additional global cruising capacity of an extra 20,000 seats will be enough!:)

 

Barry

 

Agreed, cruising is still a small segment of the holiday market.

 

David.

[glojo]

I also tend to believe cruise lines might be now understanding that they might be better off appealling to a younger demographic.

 

How long will it be, before all these newer activities will be an 'added extra' Discounts on buying multi-day tickets to go on rides, paying to go to the All Night Disco?

 

Getting the older generation to part with theirmoney might present more of a challenge, especially if they might not drink, smoke or gamble.. (who mentioned gratuities?) :rolleyes:;)

 

When will we see the first ship that offers rides in a towed passenger carrying balloon? (a great reason to steam much, much slower)

 

I wonder how many passengers could water ski behind these huge ships :eek::eek:

[Austcruiser84]

What utter racist,elitist, and generalising nonsense - and from a fellow Aussie too!! :rolleyes:

 

Elitist, maybe. Racist? Not sure how you get that.

 

The Contiki ships of the South Pacific, with VB on tap and lax shipboard attire don't interest me.

 

I think you're also forgetting the number of times they've been in the media for the poor behaviour of some of their passengers.

 

'Schoolies run riot on P&O Pacific Cruise' (2006)

 

http://www.news.com.au/national/schoolies-run-riot-on-po-pacific-cruise/story-e6frfkp9-1111112599653

 

'Sixteen men kicked off P&O Pacific Dawn cruise after brawl' (2012)

 

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/men-kicked-off-po-cruise-after-brawl/story-e6frfq80-1226268221407

 

These are just two examples. A 16 man brawl just last year. Never heard of that happening on any other cruise line.

 

While I love my country, I recognise that there is a growing class of poorly educated buffoons with cash to burn. They're largely from the suburbs and are headaches for law enforcement, especially on weekends.

 

You're more likely to find them on a P&O Australia ship sailing to the South Pacific (or travelling in Bali). Consequently, I'll steer clear.

 

If that makes me elitist, so be it. Personally, I think it makes me sensible.

[bazzaw]

You have picked only 2 examples over the past 7 years. Do you understand just how many people have sailed with P&O over that time?? I can actually give you one more example. A lout was turfed off Pacific Dawn at Townsville on our last cruise. P&O AUS are now well known to have the strictest security at sea -- and one strike and you are out! . I have seen behaviour on other cruiselines that would have earned instant "put ashore" by P&O but which was ignored.

 

Anyway -- I respect the fact that Cunard is more to your style -- it is probably more to my style as well -- just that I hate people who generalise and then go on to use that generalisation to bad mouth. There is a "loutish" element in all societies -- have you ever wandered around ANY decent sized English town on a Saturday night???

 

Every cruiseline and cruiseship has it's good points that excel over all others. P&O AUS has some - but I am certain that you would never even see that.

 

"poorly educated buffoons with cash to burn. They're largely from the suburbs"

 

Do you not live in a "suburb" ? I don't know anybody in Australia who doesn't live in some kind of suburb -- don't know too many that live in the major city CBD's. I live in a suburb -- am I poorly educated??

 

And regarding "schoolies" You might be interested in this recent CC thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1947752 where it has been said that "in the aussie ships if a person is under 19 they have to be in a cabin with an adult during nov to jan" . Your perceptions are way off mark!

 

 

 

Barry

Edited November 24, 2013 by bazzaw

[TheDyesolKid]

 

Anyway -- I respect the fact that Cunard is more to your style -- it is probably more to my style as well -- just that I hate people who generalise and then go on to use that generalisation to bad mouth. There is a "loutish" element in all societies -- have you ever wandered around ANY decent sized English town on a Saturday night???

 

Every cruiseline and cruiseship has it's good points that excel over all others. P&O AUS has some - but I am certain that you would never even see that.

 

"poorly educated buffoons with cash to burn. They're largely from the suburbs"

 

Do you not live in a "suburb" ? I don't know anybody in Australia who doesn't live in some kind of suburb -- don't know too many that live in the major city CBD's. I live in a suburb -- am I poorly educated??

 

 

Barry

 

Gee Barry you sound like a typical Queenslander .

 

P&O does have a bad reputation from some of the crazy things they did in the past , and I don't think from reading your posts that much has changed.

 

Getting back to the original post about bumper cars there is a separate forum on RCI "Quantum of the Seas"

 

A bit smaller than Oasis Class , the second Quantum "Anthem" Class is well under way and will be based in Southampton .

 

.

[TheDyesolKid]

 

While I love my country, I recognise that there is a growing class of poorly educated buffoons with cash to burn. They're largely from the suburbs and are headaches for law enforcement, especially on weekends.

 

You're more likely to find them on a P&O Australia ship sailing to the South Pacific (or travelling in Bali). Consequently, I'll steer clear.

 

If that makes me elitist, so be it. Personally, I think it makes me sensible.

 

I agree with you mate, and Surfers Paradise (Oxymoron ??) , Spewket and Bali are all no go areas for sensible people.

 

Every week 70 young Aussies are sent to hospital because of alcohol-related assaults, and every week four die due to alcohol-related injuries.

 

Link to Qeneration out of Control/

 

That would be 12 a week in the U.K.

and

around 56 a week in the USA.

 

.

[Salacia]

Yes, I read that on CC the other day

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=5624#

 

Anthem (4,180 pax) is going to replace Independence of the Seas (3,634 pax).

Look at the photos here :eek:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/10467460/Launch-plans-for-Anthem-of-the-Seas-unveiled.html

 

The line that brought rock climbing walls, FlowRider surf simulators and zip wires to the mainstream holiday market will now offer skydiving and bumper cars at sea as well as North Star, a viewing pod that extends 300 feet above the water via a mechanical arm.

 

And, oh joy for Florida, the Anthem of the Seas will make Fort Lauderdale it's winter base .http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/21/3769575/royal-caribbeans-anthem-of-the.html

 

I wonder how these mega ships will find ports where they can dock. Most of my voyages have been on QM2, and it is not uncommon that we tender to ports. From what I have read on this forum, one of the reasons why Cunard passengers prefer the smaller ships is because more ports are accessible for docking.

 

How will ports around the world deal with the huge number of mega-ship passengers visiting for a few hours in their towns? Interesting story here http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/22/21578961-mega-cruise-ships-looming-over-historic-harbors-spark-debate?lite

[glojo]

You have picked only 2 examples over the past 7 years. Do you understand just how many people have sailed with P&O over that time?? I can actually give you one more example. A lout was turfed off Pacific Dawn at Townsville on our last cruise. P&O AUS are now well known to have the strictest security at sea -- and one strike and you are out! . I have seen behaviour on other cruiselines that would have earned instant "put ashore" by P&O but which was ignored.

 

Anyway -- I respect the fact that Cunard is more to your style -- it is probably more to my style as well -- just that I hate people who generalise and then go on to use that generalisation to bad mouth. There is a "loutish" element in all societies -- have you ever wandered around ANY decent sized English town on a Saturday night???

 

Every cruiseline and cruiseship has it's good points that excel over all others. P&O AUS has some - but I am certain that you would never even see that.

 

"poorly educated buffoons with cash to burn. They're largely from the suburbs"

 

Do you not live in a "suburb" ? I don't know anybody in Australia who doesn't live in some kind of suburb -- don't know too many that live in the major city CBD's. I live in a suburb -- am I poorly educated??

 

And regarding "schoolies" You might be interested in this recent CC thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1947752 where it has been said that "in the aussie ships if a person is under 19 they have to be in a cabin with an adult during nov to jan" . Your perceptions are way off mark!

 

 

 

Barry

Australia is clearly a popular location for cruise ships, you only have to look at the so called World cruise taken by the Queen Mary 2 each year. I say 'so called' as I like to think a World cruise is a circum navigation of our planet and that cruise does not get anywhere close to doing that.

 

Australia is a very popular location where the flag ship pays a significant part of her time visiting and whilst it proves to be so popular, will it change and if so why? A really nice country that is very popular.

 

Unfortunately does Australia encourage its stereo typical type image? Fosters Beer :(:rolleyes: and Crocodile Dundee are possibly not the most popular Australian beer, or the way your typical Australian hetrosexual male behaves?

 

Edited November 24, 2013 by glojo

[Host Hattie]

Do we get to hear of the exact compliment of passengers or is it more of a generalisation.. 10% from Mars, 40% from Pluto, 30% from the Moon and no actual numbers? That is NOT me suggesting numbers are not released, I am just curious as to numbers of passengers that sail on these beautiful ships. (be they mountain climbing giants, or Silversea limousines.

 

 

You get the actual number on the cruises I've been on.

 

 

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

[Jim Avery]

Same here. The passenger make up numbers are available if you ask. Some ships announce them at the Captain's Party. Seabourn still provides a passenger list.:D

[Jim Avery]

As an aside on this thread about behemoth of the seas, Allure of the Seas has a listed draft of 31'. 1' LESS than QE2 at 32'!:eek: That should make all those on board sleep well. :D

[glojo]

Same here. The passenger make up numbers are available if you ask. Some ships announce them at the Captain's Party. Seabourn still provides a passenger list.:D

;)You have both very kindly answered half the question:)

 

On your cruises was the ship carrying a full complement of passengers? It would be nice to hear the ship was full.

 

Obviously we will have no idea of prices paid and that is the sole business of a cruise line :)

[Ryancoke]

They keep getting bigger but I wonder how long it would take to load the lifeboats on the inevitable Abomination of the Seas? But I'm sure they've calculated that the (almost certain) extra income over many years will more than make up for the damages from a (relatively unlikely) catastrophic loss.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Ryancoke

[glojo]

As an aside on this thread about behemoth of the seas, Allure of the Seas has a listed draft of 31'. 1' LESS than QE2 at 32'!:eek: That should make all those on board sleep well. :D

Brilliant snippet of information ;)

 

I read an article by a Naval Architect who was discussing the broad beam, narrow beam issue and he was talking about just how stable a large wide bodied vessel can be.

 

Far to complex for me to para phrase but he talked about the forces of these wide beamed ships pushing downward and then an equal force pushing up on the ships undersides which helps keep them extremely stable.

 

I can hear you screaming about stability and stability... You get my vote and I just feel that there is no way in the World these large shallow=ish draft vessels could ever roll to a similar degree as what a narrow beamed vessel could. I am guessing the stock answer would be, these ships would not roll to those angles.

 

I have read a Board of Inquiry report into a Vista class ship being badly damaged when it rolled to just over 26 degrees!! Lots of internal damage mostly poorly secured furnishings but there was also I believe more serious damage. Evidently once these ships exceed 26 degree of roll, alarms start going off on the bridge??

 

I have seen numerous clips showing QE2 regularly exceeding that degree of roll and my father talked of how the old Queen Mary\Elizabeth would roll in all but the flatest of seas!! (Extremely safe, very seaworthy ships)

 

Jim,

Do all these horrible 'floating hotels' have the highest Lloyds insurance ranking? If there was any doubt regarding stability would they get insurance cover, or would it be a down graded version with stipulations? Would they be banned from the likes of the West Indies during the hurricane season?

 

I have never enjoyed sailing with a stern sea, but do all modern cruise ships\liner have a transom designed rear end which might not offer the best sea keeping qualities?

 

If we put an empty cake tin in a bath and then start making huge waves, would this shallow drafted tin be more stable than a narrow, deeper drafted option?

 

I have always been in the corner of the lean, mean fighting machine type design, but reading up on this subject and reading how stable these things are compared to their older counterpart, does make me think.

[bazzaw]

Fosters Beer are possibly not the most popular Australian beer

 

Once again -- stereotyping, generalisation and unquestioned acceptance of Marketing :(. Do you know that Fosters beer is not drunk at all in Australia. I don't know a single drinking establishment where it is sold -- I guess, being made in the UK, there may be some imported into Australia and sold in specialist stores among other imports :)

 

Barry

Edited November 24, 2013 by bazzaw

[glojo]

Once again -- stereotyping, generalisation and unquestioned acceptance of Marketing . Do you know that Fosters beer is not drunk at all in Australia. I don't know a single drinking establishment where it is sold -- I guess, being made in the UK, there may be some imported into Australia and sold in specialist stores among other imports :)

 

Barry

Barry

A nice piece of selective editing and a good choice of words

 

Hopefully my full text was not saying what you hint at? Iwould like to think I was asking a question, hence that question mark at the end of the sentence!

 

Unfortunately does Australia encourage its stereo typical type image? Fosters Beer :(:rolleyes: and Crocodile Dundee are possibly not the most popular Australian beer, or the way your typical Australian hetrosexual male behaves?

 

Sort of like this:

 

Do you know that Fosters beer is not drunk at all in Australia

 

 

there may be some imported into Australia and sold in specialist stores among other imports

 

Is it sold in Australia or not?

 

I was last in your very nice country in the early 1970's and beyond a single shadow of a doubt this horrible tasting beer was sold in vast quantities back then, in multiple outlets and for some reason it was indeed extremely popular.

 

Was this company bought out in Australia in 2011?

 

In September 2011, the board of Fosters Group agreed to a takeover bid by SABMiller, valuing the company at A$9.9bn Brands include:

Carlton Draught, Cascade Draught), Foster's Lager, Melbourne Bitter, Pure Blonde, Victoria Bitter and the Matilda Bay portfolio

Could it be suggested that Carlton Draught, Cascade Draught, Melbourne Bitter, Pure Blonde, Victoria Bitter were\are all produced by SABMiller at its numerous breweries and this might now include the locations of the bought out beer manufacturer called Fosters?

 

 

The label on the beer might be different but when SABMiller bought out Fosters for that eye watering amount of money did they close all the plants down, sack all the staff, or did they simply takeover the brand and all its outlets and then just simply rebadge the product with a brand name it already owned?

 

 

Yes Foster's in name might no longer be brewed in Australia but surely the SABMiller breweries are churning out what they always made, which might now include beers made in the old Foster's breweries with just a new label?

 

Apologies for this drift but I do find it interesting, isn't it nice to have some sort of heritage? :eek:;):)

[Jim Avery]

QE2 beam: 105'. Allure of the Seas: 152' at the waterline, max beam: 198':eek::eek:. In other words, it gets a lot wider as you go up! So much for "tumblehome". Scary. As far as insurance ratings, I have not a clue. I do know that it is all done with computer simulations to what ever minimum regulations are currently in place and these very big, very tall, shallow draft vessels are basically kept upright with computer loading and ballast controls. Mr. Newton was right all those years ago and if these things do start to list, the point of no return comes sooner rather than later.:eek: But, they are completely regulated and legal and are engineered to be the lightest, cheapest, largest vessel for the job. One quote from Cunard sources years ago was that the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were the smallest, slowest ships capable of providing a weekly service. :D It will only ever be a problem if there is a problem. Then I fear for any reasonable evacuation of thousands of panic stricken passengers and crew (for the most part, crew are not really trained seamen). For what it is worth, the normal draft of Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth was 39'. And I do think Mr. Payne designed QM2 in excess of minimum standards. She is not, IMHO, the one to worry about.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Jim Avery

[bazzaw]

 

Is it sold in Australia or not?

 

I was last in your very nice country in the early 1970's and beyond a single shadow of a doubt this horrible tasting beer was sold in vast quantities back then, in multiple outlets and for some reason it was indeed extremely popular.

 

We are WAAAY off topic now -- but I thought I had answered that. It is not brewed or drunk in Australia any more , and hasn't been for some decades. As I said, that is not to say that you may be able to find a can of it somewhere in the back of a specialty shop -- but in general, no. The name is now derided here and Aussies generally poke fun at the UK advertising of it as "Australian" . I am afraid that I don't know the Corporate ins-and outs -- but as I think you were implying, most Australian commercail megabrewery lager all tastes much the same to me and I don't drink much of it. Much prefer to drink a good English ale -- unfortunately Cunard didn't stock anything decent of that when we were on the Cunard ships. :)

 

Barry

Edited November 25, 2013 by bazzaw

[TheDyesolKid]

Hi

 

You can get of annoying bloggers/posters ?? (including me) by clicking on their

 

Name / Handle

then

View Public Profile

then

User Lists

then

Add to Ignore List

 

You can always see a post or undo the ignore .

:cool:

[pmb1]

… Much prefer to drink a good English ale -- unfortunately Cunard didn't stock anything decent of that when we were on the Cunard ships. :)

 

Barry

I didn't try it, but in July on QM2 Old Speckled Hen was recommended to me as a good ale. Do you know anything about it?

[bazzaw]

I didn't try it, but in July on QM2 Old Speckled Hen was recommended to me as a good ale. Do you know anything about it?

 

Well - it's not too bad :). But it is another example of a small brewery(and beer) being gobbled up by a large mega-Corporation and often the product is degraded from the original. Old Speckled Hen was first brewed by Morland Brewery - but is now owned and brewed By Green King.

 

I didn't say it -- but my last "complaint" about the Cunard Ales was more aimed at their draught ales. Their selection of bottled ales was OK - but could have been better :)

 

Barry

[balf]

Reminds me of this well advertised wine a few years ago-

 

'The French adore Le Piat D'Or'

 

The wine was never marketed in France, which was fortunate for the French.

 

I stayed with a friend in the Dandenogs once and remember him buying Melbourne bitter at a filling station. That wasn't too bad. I never saw Fosters though.

 

David.