Special deals mean early bookers pay more for less

[Bodogbodog]

Those Consolidators have all of the Australian Laws on their side, one of which (unbelievably) is that Australians have no choice but to use their services

Really? - "Unbelievably" is actually correct - Can you please provide a reference to the Australian legislation which you claim places such a restriction on Australian citizens. I think you are going to struggle and you should limit your advice to matters on which you are qualified to provide such advice instead of telling Australasian members what they can and cannot legally do.

 

I guess I may have imagined my last couple of cruises on Crystal which were booked with two different US based TA's without any issues - and with generous OBCs and which clearly stated my Australian address on my cruise documentation from Crystal

 

What I do know is that some lines eg Princess will not accept bookings from Australian residents from anyone other than Australian agents - but that is quite different than "Australian Law" preventing it occurring which you have claimed several times in this thread

[pacheco18]

Really? - "Unbelievably" is actually correct - Can you please provide a reference to the Australian legislation which you claim places such a restriction on Australian citizens. I think you are going to struggle and you should limit your advice to matters on which you are qualified to provide such advice instead of telling Australasian members what they can and cannot legally do.

 

I guess I may have imagined my last couple of cruises on Crystal which were booked with two different US based TA's without any issues - and with generous OBCs and which clearly stated my Australian address on my cruise documentation from Crystal

 

What I do know is that some lines eg Princess will not accept bookings from Australian residents from anyone other than Australian agents - but that is quite different than "Australian Law" preventing it occurring which you have claimed several times in this thread

 

You are quite correct

I have friends in Australia who use my TA.

No laws are being broken.

[Bodogbodog]

You are quite correct

I have friends in Australia who use my TA.

No laws are being broken.

Thanks - I know our origins in Australia are from "convict stock" but we're not generally a nation of law breakers now - but we do love a bargain and getting a good deal when possible on our cruises :D:D:D

Some of my cruise friends have suggested we give Oceania a try so were scouting the options at the moment - an artificial restriction by Oceania on not being able to use my preferred TA who happens to be in the US would be a real disincentive for us

[Bodogbodog]

persons holding an Australian or New Zealand Passport have always been held to these same Rules, regardless of how they booked their Cruises.

 

Sad to say, it is these Australian entities, not Oceania, which are engaged in demanding their additional pounds of flesh from a captive Audience, due to protectionist Laws, Down Under, which still only allow foreign travel to be purchased from a local company...

Please note that Princess (through their mother company P&O), and Holland America were big enough in Asia before the Second World War, that they were grandfathered out of this entire situation.

You are so making this up! Which country people choose to use a passport from does not determine their residence or the ability to use a TA from another country. A passport is a document which denotes citizenship - and in many cases people quite lawfully have multiple passports

Foreign travel does not need to be purchased from a local company inherently and there is no legislation in Australia and I don't believe there is in New Zealand either - do you realise they are both separate sovereign countries who have their own Parliaments enacting law?

And ironically Princess is one of the small number of cruise lines that do restrict Australians from purchasing from anywhere other than an Australian agent or their Australian office directly so I'm not sure what you mean they are grandfathered out if this situation?

We've discussed this topic recently over in the Australian and New Zealand cruisers forum @ http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2013880

Edited April 6, 2014 by Bodogbodog

[Bodogbodog]

OK time for some facts....

My US based TA tells me they are allowed to book every cruiseline, except Oceania, MSC, Costa which go by the passport info rather than the residence address of the guest. So I guess if you have multiple passports you could leverage that option

Princess, and Holland America go by country of residence irrespective of citizenship. As has been observed it's not hard to arrange a US address to facilitate such a booking

All other cruise lines are OK with international bookings

[pacheco18]

I think we need to believe the folks who live in Australia as opposed to the self-appointed experts on this subject.

 

Like everything else -- the folks who have EXPERIENCED the issue tend to know a lot more than those who THINK they know the answer because they tend to be "well informed."

 

I bow to the Aussies

[Bodogbodog]

I think we need to believe the folks who live in Australia as opposed to the self-appointed experts on this subject.

I bow to the Aussies

No need to bow - Aussies aren't like that - hey but you can always buy me a drink :D

The passport approach that Oceania use is actually quite interesting - a very strange approach given the ability for people to quite legally have multiple passports

[Hokapontas]

No need to bow - Aussies aren't like that - hey but you can always buy me a drink :D

The passport approach that Oceania use is actually quite interesting - a very strange approach given the ability for people to quite legally have multiple passports

 

My husband has US and Aussie passports, so I guess it would have been ok for him, maybe not me as I was only for a couple of years a green card holder.

 

Our TA (in Hobart) explained us not being able to book online for O as being an O website based problem, and Aussies are always directed to a travel agent. I must say though, we got a stellar deal- maybe they compensate by putting out Aussie literature for the TA's? At the mo, the Oceania deal is 'free air' plus the other goodies which I am not able to use anyway as I suspect it is 'from your US local area'. So I would be most likely checking with your local cruise TA as well if you wish to sail with Oceania!

[YoHoHo]

OK time for some facts....

My US based TA tells me they are allowed to book every cruiseline, except Oceania, MSC, Costa which go by the passport info rather than the residence address of the guest. So I guess if you have multiple passports you could leverage that option

Princess, and Holland America go by country of residence irrespective of citizenship. As has been observed it's not hard to arrange a US address to facilitate such a booking

All other cruise lines are OK with international bookings

I understand some countries require foreign companies, i.e. a cruise line, that meets certain minimums to have a legal business presence is that country. I have read that is the case in the UK. The objective I believe is to protect and provide for it's citizens. I certainly do not have a problem with that. As with most things it is a double edged sword. In this case means a resident might have to do business with a local enterprise.

 

Just because one can circumvent such regulations by having a foreign address does not mean the restriction does not exist or is not valid, just that one is using a work-around to the regulations.

 

For example, some provinces in Canada regulate TAs and require them paying into a supplier default fund. This provides protection for travelers whether they know it or want it. Obviously there is a real, hidden, cost for that. Here we are free to use services of a USA based TA or even buy direct but lose that benefit. Purchasers might not realize this and so complain they can get a better (cheaper) deal from a US agent missing the point that the increased cost is due to their government's regulation.

[Bodogbodog]

Just because one can circumvent such regulations by having a foreign address does not mean the restriction does not exist or is not valid, just that one is using a work-around to the regulations

The claims in this thread were that Australia and New Zealand have such legislation is incorrect - unlike some I don't pretend to be an expert on other countries but I do know the situation in Australia and am awaiting anyone to post details of any Australian or New Zealand legislation that requires all cruise bookings to be made in those countries. As I've said it is the Cruise lines decision and rules that are impacting customers

Edited April 7, 2014 by Bodogbodog

[JimandStan]

The claims in this thread were that Australia and New Zealand have such legislation is incorrect - unlike some I don't pretend to be an expert on other countries but I do know the situation in Australia and am awaiting anyone to post details of any Australian or New Zealand legislation that requires all cruise bookings to be made in those countries. As I've said it is the Cruise lines decision and rules that are impacting customers

 

We could get into a long wrangle about whether or not it is the Oceania contracts with the Australian Consolidators which gives them the power to offer inferior pricing, poor amenities, and lousy customer service to your countrymen; but frankly I don't see the point.

 

It strikes me that it would be far more productive for you to marshal your resources against those Consolidators, for taking that power and screwing you into the ground, rather than worrying about the the messenger.

 

Of course, I write this knowing full well that you will never choose to do anything productive about this situation, whatever.

 

Seeing as how the Consolidator will only tell you that "you have no choice, so take it or leave it", I suppose that it must be much more fulfilling to post your gripes here.

 

I sympathize greatly with the Australian/New Zealand side, but it must be said that the overwhelming preference of their citizens to circumvent this issue rather than facing it head on is a major reason that it has lingered on for decades.

 

Long story short, if Australians &/or New Zealanders' had bitten the bullet and taken their business elsewhere, when this first came to light, the power of the marketplace would have resolved this issue years ago.

 

 

 

[Bodogbodog]

We could get into a long wrangle about whether or not it is the Oceania contracts with the Australian Consolidators which gives them the power to offer inferior pricing, poor amenities, and lousy customer service to your countrymen; but frankly I don't see the point

....Of course, I write this knowing full well that you will never choose to do anything productive about this situation, whateve

I'm not much interested in unsubstantiated claims - why not just debate your to date unsubstantiated claims that it's Aust legislation governing this? Can you provide the Act of Parliament that mandates that? Can you do that? You seemed so confident earlier in this thread

I'll "do something" about it when I get clarity on the issue and given I can book Crystal, my currently preferred line, via my US agent as I've done it the past it's not a big issue for me at this stage - your challenge is accepted when you stop moving the goalposts

Edited April 7, 2014 by Bodogbodog

[Yankeeclipper1]

I'm not much interested in unsubstantiated claims - why not just debate your to date unsubstantiated claims that it's Aust legislation governing this? Can you provide the Act of Parliament that mandates that? Can you do that? You seemed so confident earlier in this thread I'll "do something" about it when I get clarity on the issue and given I can book Crystal, my currently preferred line, via my US agent as I've done it the past it's not a big issue for me at this stage - your challenge is accepted when you stop moving the goalposts

 

OK time for some facts....

My US based TA tells me they are allowed to book every cruiseline, except Oceania, MSC, Costa which go by the passport info rather than the residence address of the guest. So I guess if you have multiple passports you could leverage that option Princess, and Holland America go by country of residence irrespective of citizenship. As has been observed it's not hard to arrange a US address to facilitate such a booking

All other cruise lines are OK with international bookings

 

Bodobodog, I won't dispute your disagreement about Australian commerce law but some of what you were citing may not be accurate (regarding Oceania using just passports) or the context needs clarification. On the Australian predicament - I do believe its market driven. Like any business - Oceania tries to control its markets and market competitiveness (as much as local laws allow in each market - to include legal monopolies in some countries) - like any international corporation will do. The Australian market seems to "bear" consolidators and Oceania has made the equation that they profit more from them than other alternatives as a means of distributing their product. The ones spilling over successfully to alternative bookings doesn't seem to have much impact - or the market would change.

 

What I have a problem with is the TA information about Oceania and passports (not your information but information you cited from you TA). This is where all "Oceania Markets" truly are not created equal.:

My US based TA tells me they are allowed to book every cruise-line, except Oceania, MSC, Costa which go by the passport info rather than the residence address of the guest.[/Quote] I don't think that is accurate or maybe needs specific context. I think you actually had it right before you started quoting your T/A -

Which country people choose to use a passport from does not determine their residence or the ability to use a TA from another country. A passport is a document which denotes citizenship - and in many cases people quite lawfully have multiple passports

and I would add, are legal residents of countries and possess passports that do not reflect their current country residence. Oceania has an interesting work around for that - the "mailing address" in order to get your "cruise documents" to you - at least my experience in UK as an Expat.

 

Here is an overseas story in reverse - instead of the Australians trying to get the US cheaper fare in this case the US was not the cheapest, by far. I have a US passport, live in London (for work), but have a permanent USA address. Was back in the States (on business) and being bored at night put together a cruise for my family. We did Marina last February in Tahiti (extended deck 7111 thanks to CC) and it was great. Actually a mistake for me since it was my wife's first cruise - so there is no going backwards. We have lived in 8 countries, have visited 70 and we love good food. My family loves 3 hour dinners in good restaurants and enjoy good representation of whatever it is being served (so long as it is a good representation). They have done a lot - seen a lot.

 

I did substantial research, looked for 7 day cruises in Europe - cruise only - I looked for ones that seemed discounted compared to others. I booked with a Miami high volume agent after throwing it out on a comparison engine. Got a great deal for a B3 and PH3 (seemed like all his commission - who knows). BUT when I got back to London I looked up Oceania - being in London and using UK internet providers the IP address will lead you to Oceania UK and you will not be able to see the USA site from London unless you use a VPN to move your location and fake out the site (which I do all the time for shopping comparisons). Get a VPN and can the Oceania Websites around the world - - also great for shopping and getting different search results.

 

That particular cruise worked out to $8200 yes $8200 (for both cabins) LESS than the online "special promotion" in the US. I almost fell on the floor. I verified - did dummy bookings online - called etc. The Miami agent told me of course to go for it and totally understood. I then changed my IP address and looked it up in France and Germany - it was actually $500 cheaper than UK due to currency swings since the brochure had been published. I contacted Oceania UK to book. They heard my American accent and first thing they asked - where are you? I am here in London. Do you have a London Postal Address? Yes of course I do? Are you legally working here (British Work Status). Yes I am (I question the relevance of that one). All they really cared about was that I had a UK mailing address with proper postal codes- that was it. I even said I could get it cheaper in France and I had a house in France, can they match that. They came back with - well the "cruise documents" would have to be "mailed" to that address so you would have to pay in Euros and we would mail it out to your home in France. REALLY - in this day and age you mail out documents?? I can't remember what they did for my Tahiti cruise - but if that is really a fact - mail docs - then that's how they get you cornered into a market. No address no cruise docs. OK - I have cousins in France that could do that for me. Well, - Too much hassle and I don't trust my cousin to be that reliable. But instead, I contacted a London T/Agent - they took the booking and came near the currency swing (I guess commission cutting). With the $8000 savings (not really savings I am still spending money) I booked another cruise for just my wife and me. That cruise was also about $4000 cheaper than the best US online rate (cruise only to cruise only). That's $12,000 less than I would have spent booking on the US website or through US TA.

 

Granted -only the two cruises I picked were substantially discounted compared to the US prices - probably European marketing to broaden the market here on lesser traveled itineraries from the European's perspective. Doesn't matter to me -I got 2 PH cabins and 1 B3 for a little more than what 1 PH would have cost me (cruise only). It also did include the same promotions - gratuities etc. My point is that there are many ways to do it - I don't think any one view can portray the global view. Also the TA saying they go by Passport doesn't make sense even in the USA. Green card holders are legal residents, , own property, pay taxes and have foreign passports and there are various types of visa's that allow you to live and work in the US and come and go.

 

I think its really about the mailing address. If in fact (TBD for me) you have to receive a hard copy of your Cruise Docs - then that's how OC holds (or tries to) the markets. If you can get around that (as evidently many have done) you can shop Oceania anywhere you want (with a VPN). Just make sure you get those hard copy documents delivered to you. I am still not sure about that until mine arrive via HM Royal Mail.

 

If I really get paper docs in the internet age - that's dumb - or is it really really smart?

[Hokapontas]

Yankeeclipper1 I agree with you completely. Your point about passports is exactly true. We used to live in the US and got paid in Australia, choosing which currency/bank to get paid in depending on the conversion at the time. At the moment there is not much difference between the two currencies - once upon a time that would have explained a hunk of price differential.

 

I am completely happy with the deal I got with my Aussie TA and am mystified as to the line that Aussies have got some second rate deal. There are deals in all countries at different times, I suppose you check and buy as you can. At the moment for some of the routes it seems that the 'special promotion' is exactly as you found it. Maybe they want more cruisers from other lands to join the (mainly) US citizens on board.

[Palmetto Lady]

There has been discussions about waiting to book cruises because the ships have not been selling out. River boat cruises were listed as being the same. I think that is a very broad statement, and doesn't address the facts as they are. I'll use several examples. Last summer we took the Baltic Cruise in July - Copenhagen to Stockholm. the ship was completely sold out and we were offered very tempting offers to change to other dates and/or cruises. We had great weather and great cruising. The same (reverse) in late September went half empty and they had rain and cold the entire trip. Logically, the experienced traveller is not going to book a cruise to St. Petersburg in late September. If you want to book a trip to this locale in prime season, you'd better book early. If you enjoy walking around the Peterhof Gardens in cold rain/sleet in late Sept, you can book when you want.

 

Same goes for some of the Med cruises. Having lived in Europe, you go to the Med for the beach. In the middle of the day, it's seista time, when shops typically shut down from 1-4 p.m. What experienced traveler would want to go and sightsee in Athens, Instanbul, an places in between in the middle of July or August in these locales. The ships don't sell out, well DUH! However, look at the shoulder months when the climate is more moderate, the ships are full.

 

We are taking a Viking River Cruise on the Rhone in mid September 2014. We booked and paid for the cruise in late June of 2013. That boat and most all the other Viking boats during that time frame were completely, or near so, sold out and paid for in full by early August of 2013. If you wanted to go in cooler, rainer April of this year, one could probably still make reservations to do so today.

 

So if one considers it a deal to walk around St. Pete in 40 degree weather in the rain and sleet, or sight see Athens in August, there are probably deals to be had by waiting, otherwise, you'd better book early, imo.

 

Oceania Marina makes one sidney to Auckland trip per year. It's in February. Try booking the Feb 2015 trip today. While it may come available again in Nov, it a chance many of us choose not to make.

 

We are experienced travelers and are sailing in the Med from Barcelona to Istanbul in July. Why? We liked the itinerary which includes a number of ports we have never visited. Also Istanbul is one of our favorite cities. This particular cruise has not been included in the recent promotions which makes me thinks that we are not the only ones attracted to this itinerary. (So far there are about 60 persons on the Roll Call.)