Rebecca Coriam's family to sue Disney for $75,000

[Ex techie]

Hey Techie' date='

 

Yes there is always a chance............almost everything in sea rescue has a chance. However as the chief is pointing out it near impossible without a light or transponder on a lifevest.

 

The average cruise ship will likely take 5 to 8 minutes to execute a Williamson turn, which turns the vessel around 180* and has her on the reverse course.

 

Then she needs to slow down and get to the original position and hope they see the person.

 

 

Yes it is possible, but as you can see, this is not like driving down the road looking for something that fell off the back of a truck!

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Appreciate the reply and comment Skipper.

And as you know, I know how dark it can be at sea.

 

If the MOB system or the bridge mark the GPS co-ordinates that would help with returning the vessel to the position where the incident happened?

A good starting point, and the current and direction is known so the drift can be approximately calculated?

 

I just think that if it were one of out families, we would wish the best tech to be employed to protect us and do everything possible with the tech available to us to help the rescue.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

After nearly 40 years at sea, I know that anything you do at sea is dangerous, but there is such a thing as committing suicide, which is what you would do attempting to launch a RIB with the ship underway. Plus, you've just increased the number of victims from 1 to 3 or 4, and disabled one asset of rescue, the boat.

 

And as I've said before, I'm one of the few who has found out that I will run towards the fire, not everyone will, and not everyone will know this, as I didn't for sure know, before the smoke is in your nostrils. I have saved lives at sea, and probably will do again, but I will always point out the risks.

 

And I respect and have so much admiration for you and your service Chief.

I wasn't suggesting launching the RIB at speed. Only at a dead stop.

I would think at vessel of the Magic class size could execute a controlled dead stop within a half mile, The Dream Class in maybe 3/4's of a mile.

A rib team assembled in that time (5 mins) then launched back to the plotted position whilst the ship executes a turn back to that position?

 

ex techie

Edited April 3, 2014 by Ex techie

[Host Mick]

I figured that was a possibility. Even though most ships run in the 10-12 knot zone for fuel efficiency, that would still be too fast I guess.

 

I would still have ships equipped with radio transmitting marker buoys they could drop immediately. Would help the ship return to the general area and in the case of accidental overboard give the person something to swim to that floats (it also would have lighting on it)

 

They have those. On the sides of the bridge wing and probably elsewhere are life rings with strobes attached. IF they see someone go overboard, they pull a pin and the rig falls to the sea and starts strobing. It has to be deployed immediately to be of any use.

[chengkp75]

And I respect and have so much admiration for you and your service Chief.

I wasn't suggesting launching the RIB at speed. Only at a dead stop.

I would think at vessel of the Magic class size could execute a controlled dead stop within a half mile, The Dream Class in maybe 3/4's of a mile.

A rib team assembled in that time (5 mins) then launched back to the plotted position whilst the ship executes a turn back to that position?

 

ex techie

 

Thanks for your kindness, but I'm not a serviceman, or a firefighter, or a cop, or anyone who does a public service. I'm just someone who has had the chance to save some of us morons who regularly go to sea. I could have gone my entire career, like many guys I know, and never have smelled a whiff of smoke, or seen a fatality, but I guess I was just unlucky enough to see a few of both.

 

Could a ship be stopped in a few ship lengths? Yes, it can, it's done during sea trials. Would it most likely result in injuries to guests and crew? Yeah, I've seen Navy ships do a crash stop and hurl everyone who wasn't braced right (and we were warned in advance) to the deck. Most ships can crash stop in 4 ship lengths or so, but that is still 2/3 to 3/4 of a mile. Would you want to? Lets look at some examples, and here we'll see how a cruise ships speed, maneuverability, and high tech propulsion systems can be a blessing and a curse.

 

If your MOB detection device worked, and the watch officer decided to react right away, he could do two things: 1) he could turn the wheel hard over towards the person (which swings the props away) or 2) he could stop the ship.

 

Let's assume he decides to execute a Williamson turn to bring the props away from the victim, and return to the spot. Cruise ships with shafted propulsion have Becker rudders, which act like airplane wings providing turning force not only from the water flow against the front side of a turned rudder, but also by creating "lift" on the backside. These are to improve steering at low speeds (below 5 knots) when conventional rudders lose effect. However, this blessing while docking becomes a curse when at sea speed. The Norwegian Sky was running at 18 knots towards Vancouver, when the wheel was put hard over. The normal waterline is about 8 feet below deck 3, but in this turn, the water covered the portlight in the ECR, 5 feet above deck 3. The ship heeled over about 30-35* and we sent over 100 guests to the hospital in Vancouver. So, a Williamson turn is not a real good idea at sea speed. Azipods, by directing thrust in the desired direction nearly instantly, are just as good at changing a ship's direction quickly, but again, physics says that the top of the ship will want to stay going in it's original direction, and the ship will heel very badly.

 

Now, we assume he decides to stop the ship as close to the victim as possible. If we do a crash stop, we end up hurting more people. Also, most twin screw ships (shafts or pods) have "outboard" turning propellers (port counter clock, stbd clockwise) as this aids in keeping the ship on a straight course with minimum helm. Conversely, when going astern (to stop the ship), the wheels turn "inboard", and this tends to kick the stern usually to starboard. If the victim fell over the starboard side, do we want to swing the propellers towards him? And with pods, to reverse, you are swinging the pods around, so the props could be even closer to someone in the water.

 

So, really, immediate reaction to a MOB could cause far more damage than it saves, cold maybe, but triage.

 

So what does a ship this size do? Generally, it will mark the location on the ECDIS radar (there's a special button on the radar to do this), reduce speed as quickly as possible without tearing everything and everyone not fastened to the hull loose, make a Williamson turn when speed is down so that the turn induced heel is minimized, approach near the site, stop, and lower the MOB boat.

 

I'm not cold and insensitive to the victims or their families. I look at the realities, and the science involved. Does knowing exactly where a person went overboard help in the search? Of course. Does it guarantee a better outcome for the search? No. Could immediate action of the ship help? Sure. Could it hurt? Sure. Hell, even if you stopped immediately, launched the MOB boat, and started searching in 5 minutes, if the person was wearing dark clothes, injured, and at night, you would probably run a 50/50 chance of running them down with the MOB boat and never knowing it as you would rescuing them.

 

Really, the most important thing a ship could do immediately when a person goes overboard is to launch the bridge wing liferings. They not only have a EPIRB beacon, but it provides floatation and color, and will have a strobe light not only for the ship to see, but for the victim to find the lifering. Old school, maybe, but tried and true.

 

Sorry for the rant. I know you feel as committed to passenger safety as I do, we just look at it differently. Discussion is good, it makes you think outside the box, and makes you dig up things you thought you'd forgotten, but was just lurking there in the back of the brain.

[Ex techie]

Thanks for your kindness, but I'm not a serviceman, or a firefighter, or a cop, or anyone who does a public service. I'm just someone who has had the chance to save some of us morons who regularly go to sea. I could have gone my entire career, like many guys I know, and never have smelled a whiff of smoke, or seen a fatality, but I guess I was just unlucky enough to see a few of both.

 

Could a ship be stopped in a few ship lengths? Yes, it can, it's done during sea trials. Would it most likely result in injuries to guests and crew? Yeah, I've seen Navy ships do a crash stop and hurl everyone who wasn't braced right (and we were warned in advance) to the deck. Most ships can crash stop in 4 ship lengths or so, but that is still 2/3 to 3/4 of a mile. Would you want to? Lets look at some examples, and here we'll see how a cruise ships speed, maneuverability, and high tech propulsion systems can be a blessing and a curse.

 

If your MOB detection device worked, and the watch officer decided to react right away, he could do two things: 1) he could turn the wheel hard over towards the person (which swings the props away) or 2) he could stop the ship.

 

Let's assume he decides to execute a Williamson turn to bring the props away from the victim, and return to the spot. Cruise ships with shafted propulsion have Becker rudders, which act like airplane wings providing turning force not only from the water flow against the front side of a turned rudder, but also by creating "lift" on the backside. These are to improve steering at low speeds (below 5 knots) when conventional rudders lose effect. However, this blessing while docking becomes a curse when at sea speed. The Norwegian Sky was running at 18 knots towards Vancouver, when the wheel was put hard over. The normal waterline is about 8 feet below deck 3, but in this turn, the water covered the portlight in the ECR, 5 feet above deck 3. The ship heeled over about 30-35* and we sent over 100 guests to the hospital in Vancouver. So, a Williamson turn is not a real good idea at sea speed. Azipods, by directing thrust in the desired direction nearly instantly, are just as good at changing a ship's direction quickly, but again, physics says that the top of the ship will want to stay going in it's original direction, and the ship will heel very badly.

 

Now, we assume he decides to stop the ship as close to the victim as possible. If we do a crash stop, we end up hurting more people. Also, most twin screw ships (shafts or pods) have "outboard" turning propellers (port counter clock, stbd clockwise) as this aids in keeping the ship on a straight course with minimum helm. Conversely, when going astern (to stop the ship), the wheels turn "inboard", and this tends to kick the stern usually to starboard. If the victim fell over the starboard side, do we want to swing the propellers towards him? And with pods, to reverse, you are swinging the pods around, so the props could be even closer to someone in the water.

 

So, really, immediate reaction to a MOB could cause far more damage than it saves, cold maybe, but triage.

 

So what does a ship this size do? Generally, it will mark the location on the ECDIS radar (there's a special button on the radar to do this), reduce speed as quickly as possible without tearing everything and everyone not fastened to the hull loose, make a Williamson turn when speed is down so that the turn induced heel is minimized, approach near the site, stop, and lower the MOB boat.

 

I'm not cold and insensitive to the victims or their families. I look at the realities, and the science involved. Does knowing exactly where a person went overboard help in the search? Of course. Does it guarantee a better outcome for the search? No. Could immediate action of the ship help? Sure. Could it hurt? Sure. Hell, even if you stopped immediately, launched the MOB boat, and started searching in 5 minutes, if the person was wearing dark clothes, injured, and at night, you would probably run a 50/50 chance of running them down with the MOB boat and never knowing it as you would rescuing them.

 

Really, the most important thing a ship could do immediately when a person goes overboard is to launch the bridge wing liferings. They not only have a EPIRB beacon, but it provides floatation and color, and will have a strobe light not only for the ship to see, but for the victim to find the lifering. Old school, maybe, but tried and true.

 

Sorry for the rant. I know you feel as committed to passenger safety as I do, we just look at it differently. Discussion is good, it makes you think outside the box, and makes you dig up things you thought you'd forgotten, but was just lurking there in the back of the brain.

 

Hey Chief,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Anyone who risks their life to help or try to save another is a hero in my opinion.

Whether or not you have been a serviceman in a regular land based position, you have trained and dealt with protecting people at sea. Same job, different environment, and in some circumstances an even higher risk of injury to yourself.

 

Massive appreciation for your service and also those on the many ships out there on the seas that also risk their life to protect others.

 

ex techie

[Loonbeam]

Thanks. I wonder if they have transmitters as well.

 

They have those. On the sides of the bridge wing and probably elsewhere are life rings with strobes attached. IF they see someone go overboard, they pull a pin and the rig falls to the sea and starts strobing. It has to be deployed immediately to be of any use.

[ducklite]

I'm sure I've said this before Chief, but by the same standard that is qualification for firefighters to not drive above the speed limit or enter a burning building because they are putting their life at risk to save another's.

Thats part of the job, and it is risky.

 

ex techie

 

 

Actually in many cases, firefighters will not enter a burning building, even to save someone. Firefighting is a science. Many building fires are contained as far as flames to one small part of the building, and with breathing apparatus, it is generally safe to enter a different part if the building to S/R. The toxic smoke is the reason behind most fire related injury and death, not the flames. Firefighters are not sent into flames. The first rule of firefighting is to not become another victim, and if something is obviously not safe, they won't attempt entry, even if there is allegedly a victim inside.

 

As far as the speed limits, there are protocols which must be followed for going faster than the speed limit, and it is not always permitted.

[Ex techie]

Actually in many cases, firefighters will not enter a burning building, even to save someone. Firefighting is a science. Many building fires are contained as far as flames to one small part of the building, and with breathing apparatus, it is generally safe to enter a different part if the building to S/R. The toxic smoke is the reason behind most fire related injury and death, not the flames. Firefighters are not sent into flames. The first rule of firefighting is to not become another victim, and if something is obviously not safe, they won't attempt entry, even if there is allegedly a victim inside.

 

As far as the speed limits, there are protocols which must be followed for going faster than the speed limit, and it is not always permitted.

 

So firefighters do not put they're lives on the line like in this instance?

http://www.click2houston.com/news/hfd-saves-construction-worker-from-burning-building/25167012

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Actually in many cases, firefighters will not enter a burning building, even to save someone. Firefighting is a science. Many building fires are contained as far as flames to one small part of the building, and with breathing apparatus, it is generally safe to enter a different part if the building to S/R. The toxic smoke is the reason behind most fire related injury and death, not the flames. Firefighters are not sent into flames. The first rule of firefighting is to not become another victim, and if something is obviously not safe, they won't attempt entry, even if there is allegedly a victim inside.

 

As far as the speed limits, there are protocols which must be followed for going faster than the speed limit, and it is not always permitted.

 

And what access do firefighters on ships have to confined spaces?

I would love to hear some of your experience or training for fighting fires aboard a floating vessel Ducklite.

 

ex techie

[ducklite]

So firefighters do not put they're lives on the line like in this instance?

 

http://www.click2houston.com/news/hfd-saves-construction-worker-from-burning-building/25167012

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

I didn't say they never put their lives on the line. What I said is that they won't go charging into a hopeless situation where they are only going to create further casualties. Stop trying to out words into my mouth. Before you go any further, my husband is a first responder.

[ducklite]

And what access do firefighters on ships have to confined spaces?

 

I would love to hear some of your experience or training for fighting fires aboard a floating vessel Ducklite.

 

 

 

ex techie

 

 

You were talking about burning buildings, which is what I responded to. :rolleyes:

[Ex techie]

I didn't say they never put their lives on the line. What I said is that they won't go charging into a hopeless situation where they are only going to create further casualties. Stop trying to out words into my mouth. Before you go any further, my husband is a first responder.

 

No they won't, and what you said was

Actually in many cases, firefighters will not enter a burning building,

 

I'm not putting words in your mouth, just stating and questioning what you say?

 

and if something is obviously not safe, they won't attempt entry, even if there is allegedly a victim inside.

 

Didn't look like a very safe rescue in the video, but they did it and saved someone, risking the life of the firefighter, and those firefighters operating the engine below?

 

Which role is your husband in as a first responder?

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

You were talking about burning buildings, which is what I responded to. :rolleyes:

 

Since this is a cruise thread, I thought you would be able to appreciate my admiration for Chief, and the synergy between a firefighter on land and at sea.

 

Maybe not.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

But to get this thread back on track, it's about the cruise lines liability towards crew and guest safety if they fall or voluntarily make themselves go off the ship whilst at sea.

 

ex techie

[ADeckOfficer]

Hi, I’ve been following this since the start, I’ve had to create a new account to post so as to remain anonymous (as my old account was easily identifiable) - while I don’t work for Disney I am a navigation officer with another major cruise line and feel that perhaps a lot of the discussion might be avoided if you had an insight into the procedures used onboard - of course some cruise line’s have very detailed procedures which may differ from what I have put below;

 

As chengkp75 says, while on small boats, military vessels and cargo ships the immediate and standard action taught in event of a man overboard, where the person is seen falling overboard, is to execute a Williamson's Turn in the direction of the casualty. On passenger ships this is generally strongly advised against, chengkp75 has explained very well the reason why but to summarise;

 

You have 1 person in the water, however you have easily 4000+ persons onboard, executing a Williamson's turn requires hard over rudder movements, which will result in the vessel heeling. While every passenger ship is different, the majority of these large ships will heel over very easily at moderate speeds when you apply more than 5 - 10 degrees of rudder angle. (A trade off the designers have had to make to ensure that you all experience the gentle rolling of the ship rather than sudden movements which make a lot of people sick).

 

Applying full over at 20 kts will not only easily roll the ship to 20 - 30 degrees, you’ll empty all the swimming pools, destroy the contents of the kitchens, restaurants, bars and shops and send the occupants of the ship into the bulkheads causing numerous injuries onboard. (Incidents onboard Crown Princess, Grand Princess, Pacific Sun being examples of what damage occurs with only 5 - 10 degrees of roll).

 

Generally (some cruise lines have specific procedures which may differ) the action taken by the bridge team in event of a man overboard will involve (in no particular order);

 

Releasing life ring and smoke from the bridge wing - it gives a visual indication of set/drift

Recording position on the ECS / ECDIS or worst case GPS - the computers then give us a point to aim for

Engaging hand steering - we normally sail around on autopilot so we need to take manual control back

Informing man overboard parties - usually a coded announcement or can be automated on the DEC phones

Alerting the Engine Room (In most cases you would hit standby button) that you’re about to change the vessels speed - sudden changes of speed can (on older vessels using shaft generators) result in partial blackouts

Reducing speed while executing a slow “round turn” to whatever side the person fell

 

By the time the vessel had been manoeuvred back to the position the MOB teams are probably just finishing mustering and the ship is near enough stopped in the water allowing the safe launching of the rescue boat.

 

Of course this assume’s that the person was seen falling overboard and the incident reported timely to the bridge. In the case of Miss Coriam it appears - from reading the reports that she was reported missing a long time after it has happened.

 

Now, I again feel from the comments here that the general consensus is “why did it take so long for anything to be done”, please allow me to explain my opinion of what I believe most likely happened;

 

While on cruise ships we may share cabins with each other, we’re not all one big happy family - we get on with each other but most people enjoy having space and some time to themselves, so it wouldn’t be uncommon for someone not to be seen for several hours by their friends / colleagues & with 1000+ crew members you don't know half the people onboard - I can go through weeks of not seeing people I am friends with purely down to work rotations.

 

Now, I believe she was first reported missing after failing to turn up for work. People are late for work all the time on ships - just as people are late on land. The first thing that would probably happen is her colleagues would try calling her cabin when she didn’t appear and around 10 - 15 minutes later if she still hadn’t shown up her work colleagues / supervisor would try calling her cabin again and maybe even go look in the mess or other crew areas for her. If they can’t find her, they’ll try calling her known friends (again not uncommon for people to be asleep in other persons cabins) if still not found normally Security would be informed (and subsequently the bridge).

 

Now, at this point the immediate thoughts of most people is not “they’ve fallen overboard” it’s they’re asleep somewhere so most likely a check would be made to see if she had used her onboard account to do anything, a PA announcement would be made initially in all crew areas for her to contact a number and subsequently probably to the entire ship.

 

Still nothing, then a search would be conducted of the public areas (both passenger and crew) of the ship and crew would be asked to check their cabins - this in itself would easily take an hour to be thorough. On some companies the company would be notified at this stage, however not always. The next stage would be to check the entire vessel including all the restricted areas something on a large cruise ship which would take several hours to complete fully.

 

Now while this is going on Security would of course be checking the CCTV based on whenever the person was last seen - which could of been at breakfast or the night before in the crew bar and trying to follow them around the ship, a task which in itself will take several hours - there are 1000’s of camera’s onboard.

 

Eventually it would either be found on CCTV or assumed that they were not onboard and the relevant persons notified.

 

So while I do feel great sympathy for the family, based on what appears to be public knowledge (she was last “seen” 4 hours prior to not turning up to work as she had called her family - something that the ship would not know anything about until afterwards) the time frame that it took for her to be “reported” missing to shore authorities doesn’t actually seem that excessive, since it appears that roughly 1-2 hours after failing to appear for work (the first time the ship “officially” became aware she was potentially missing) the ship had determined she was not onboard and reported it.

 

As it turns out this was roughly 5-6 hours after she went overboard - as harsh as it seems the shore authorities will normally instruct the vessel to continue to her next port of call. Other vessels in the area will receive notification of a person reported missing in the area and be asked to look out for them and depending upon the shore authorities a search will most likely be launched by them of the area identified.

 

Please don’t rely on my accuracy of the timings as there appears to be different information on different news sites regarding when the incident was reported ashore.

 

Lastly, having sailed on a ship which trialled one of these supposed automatic MOB systems for 6 months, I can assure you that despite what the manufacturers claim; they do not work; they constantly give off false alerts when the sea is anything but flat calm and sadly didn’t detect someone jumping off the side of the ship when we were in port.

Edited April 14, 2014 by ADeckOfficer

[chengkp75]

Damn, Deckie, you're worse than I am for excessively long answers.:D Seriously, though, it does take some explaining to lay persons, and everything you said is spot on. People don't realize that at sea there is a constant "triage" going on, where you weigh the risk against the reward. And unfortunately, sometimes the good of the many outweighs the good of the one.

 

Nice to hear some feedback on the MOB detection system. I had my doubts about its ability to detect "mass", and continual false alarms gets you to the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome.

Edited April 14, 2014 by chengkp75

[ducklite]

Hi, I’ve been following this since the start, I’ve had to create a new account to post so as to remain anonymous (as my old account was easily identifiable) - while I don’t work for Disney I am a navigation officer with another major cruise line and feel that perhaps a lot of the discussion might be avoided if you had an insight into the procedures used onboard - of course some cruise line’s have very detailed procedures which may differ from what I have put below;

 

As chengkp75 says, while on small boats, military vessels and cargo ships the immediate and standard action taught in event of a man overboard, where the person is seen falling overboard, is to execute a Williamson's Turn in the direction of the casualty. On passenger ships this is generally strongly advised against, chengkp75 has explained very well the reason why but to summarise;

 

You have 1 person in the water, however you have easily 4000+ persons onboard, executing a Williamson's turn requires hard over rudder movements, which will result in the vessel heeling. While every passenger ship is different, the majority of these large ships will heel over very easily at moderate speeds when you apply more than 5 - 10 degrees of rudder angle. (A trade off the designers have had to make to ensure that you all experience the gentle rolling of the ship rather than sudden movements which make a lot of people sick).

 

Applying full over at 20 kts will not only easily roll the ship to 20 - 30 degrees, you’ll empty all the swimming pools, destroy the contents of the kitchens, restaurants, bars and shops and send the occupants of the ship into the bulkheads causing numerous injuries onboard. (Incidents onboard Crown Princess, Grand Princess, Pacific Sun being examples of what damage occurs with only 5 - 10 degrees of roll).

 

Generally (some cruise lines have specific procedures which may differ) the action taken by the bridge team in event of a man overboard will involve (in no particular order);

 

Releasing life ring and smoke from the bridge wing - it gives a visual indication of set/drift

Recording position on the ECS / ECDIS or worst case GPS - the computers then give us a point to aim for

Engaging hand steering - we normally sail around on autopilot so we need to take manual control back

Informing man overboard parties - usually a coded announcement or can be automated on the DEC phones

Alerting the Engine Room (In most cases you would hit standby button) that you’re about to change the vessels speed - sudden changes of speed can (on older vessels using shaft generators) result in partial blackouts

Reducing speed while executing a slow “round turn” to whatever side the person fell

 

By the time the vessel had been manoeuvred back to the position the MOB teams are probably just finishing mustering and the ship is near enough stopped in the water allowing the safe launching of the rescue boat.

 

Of course this assume’s that the person was seen falling overboard and the incident reported timely to the bridge. In the case of Miss Coriam it appears - from reading the reports that she was reported missing a long time after it has happened.

 

Now, I again feel from the comments here that the general consensus is “why did it take so long for anything to be done”, please allow me to explain my opinion of what I believe most likely happened;

 

While on cruise ships we may share cabins with each other, we’re not all one big happy family - we get on with each other but most people enjoy having space and some time to themselves, so it wouldn’t be uncommon for someone not to be seen for several hours by their friends / colleagues & with 1000+ crew members you don't know half the people onboard - I can go through weeks of not seeing people I am friends with purely down to work rotations.

 

Now, I believe she was first reported missing after failing to turn up for work. People are late for work all the time on ships - just as people are late on land. The first thing that would probably happen is her colleagues would try calling her cabin when she didn’t appear and around 10 - 15 minutes later if she still hadn’t shown up her work colleagues / supervisor would try calling her cabin again and maybe even go look in the mess or other crew areas for her. If they can’t find her, they’ll try calling her known friends (again not uncommon for people to be asleep in other persons cabins) if still not found normally Security would be informed (and subsequently the bridge).

 

Now, at this point the immediate thoughts of most people is not “they’ve fallen overboard” it’s they’re asleep somewhere so most likely a check would be made to see if she had used her onboard account to do anything, a PA announcement would be made initially in all crew areas for her to contact a number and subsequently probably to the entire ship.

 

Still nothing, then a search would be conducted of the public areas (both passenger and crew) of the ship and crew would be asked to check their cabins - this in itself would easily take an hour to be thorough. On some companies the company would be notified at this stage, however not always. The next stage would be to check the entire vessel including all the restricted areas something on a large cruise ship which would take several hours to complete fully.

 

Now while this is going on Security would of course be checking the CCTV based on whenever the person was last seen - which could of been at breakfast or the night before in the crew bar and trying to follow them around the ship, a task which in itself will take several hours - there are 1000’s of camera’s onboard.

 

Eventually it would either be found on CCTV or assumed that they were not onboard and the relevant persons notified.

 

So while I do feel great sympathy for the family, based on what appears to be public knowledge (she was last “seen” 4 hours prior to not turning up to work as she had called her family - something that the ship would not know anything about until afterwards) the time frame that it took for her to be “reported” missing to shore authorities doesn’t actually seem that excessive, since it appears that roughly 1-2 hours after failing to appear for work (the first time the ship “officially” became aware she was potentially missing) the ship had determined she was not onboard and reported it.

 

As it turns out this was roughly 5-6 hours after she went overboard - as harsh as it seems the shore authorities will normally instruct the vessel to continue to her next port of call. Other vessels in the area will receive notification of a person reported missing in the area and be asked to look out for them and depending upon the shore authorities a search will most likely be launched by them of the area identified.

 

Please don’t rely on my accuracy of the timings as there appears to be different information on different news sites regarding when the incident was reported ashore.

 

Lastly, having sailed on a ship which trialled one of these supposed automatic MOB systems for 6 months, I can assure you that despite what the manufacturers claim; they do not work; they constantly give off false alerts when the sea is anything but flat calm and sadly didn’t detect someone jumping off the side of the ship when we were in port.

 

Thank you for your insight. This sounds very logical and factual. I also like the way you explained not doing collateral damage to potentially hundreds in order to have a very slight chance of saving one--who might not be anywhere near the area the ship is in at that point in time anyhow. It's unfortunate that some people just don't want to accept the reality of the situation.

 

I also appreciate your information about the overboard technology which I feel is going to prove to be more harmful than beneficial--something you seem to agree with given your actual experience with it.

[Ex techie]

[sNIP] Lastly, having sailed on a ship which trialled one of these supposed automatic MOB systems for 6 months, I can assure you that despite what the manufacturers claim; they do not work; they constantly give off false alerts when the sea is anything but flat calm and sadly didn’t detect someone jumping off the side of the ship when we were in port.

 

Thank you for your insight DO.

I'm disappointed that the automated MOB system you trialed didn't work properly and hopefully the manufacturers can fine tune or develop a system that does work accurately.

 

ex techie