Gratuity Question

[sparks1093]

When at a restaurant and the server gets tipped by the customer, does that go to all the other staff, not usually, just to the waiter or waitress. There are people behind the scenes everywhere. Everyone works hard (or I would hope so) that does not mean they are entitled to tips or that I have to tip them at all.

Your friend has the choice to not tip, it is her choice. It does not make her a bad person, maybe she just feels she pays a price for tour and that is all she is required to do.

It is not a matter of affording it, I have the option. Tipping is included in my vacations as well, just at my discretion not what others think I should tip.

 

You've never worked for tips, have you? In many establishments the servers tip out to other staff or the tips are pooled and split evenly among the staff. No, you don't have to tip but for those in a tipped position it is the expectation and one would hope that one would leave at least the recommended amount (unless of course there were service issues). (And I should say at this juncture that I am not trying to change your mind as it seems to be set but other people following this thread may not have made up their mind and they should consider all sides before deciding.) (I will also add that I don't ask what the tipping scheme is when I go out to eat, my obligation is to leave the tip and after that what happens to it is wholly beyond my control.)

Edited January 12, 2015 by sparks1093

[nissach]

You've never worked for tips, have you? In many establishments the servers tip out to other staff or the tips are pooled and split evenly among the staff. No, you don't have to tip but for those in a tipped position it is the expectation and one would hope that one would leave at least the recommended amount (unless of course there were service issues). (And I should say at this juncture that I am not trying to change your mind as it seems to be set but other people following this thread may not have made up their mind and they should consider all sides before deciding.) (I will also add that I don't ask what the tipping scheme is when I go out to eat, my obligation is to leave the tip and after that what happens to it is wholly beyond my control.)

 

Correct I have never worked for tips.

Where I have an issue is the 'recommended' amount. I do tip, but what I decide to tip, not what someone else has set as the 'recommended' amount.

I agree, everyone should consider all sides and make a choice that suits them.

I don't care how tips are divided either, and I don't think tipping is an obligation, that is where I disagree. I don't feel I am ever obligated to tip, it is a choice based on service received. When eating out, we tip, however not necessarily what the server thinks they should be tipped. Simple as that.

[sparks1093]

Correct I have never worked for tips.

Where I have an issue is the 'recommended' amount. I do tip, but what I decide to tip, not what someone else has set as the 'recommended' amount.

I agree, everyone should consider all sides and make a choice that suits them.

I don't care how tips are divided either, and I don't think tipping is an obligation, that is where I disagree. I don't feel I am ever obligated to tip, it is a choice based on service received. When eating out, we tip, however not necessarily what the server thinks they should be tipped. Simple as that.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on one point- if the staff relies on tips for the lions' share of their income then I think there is an obligation to leave at least the recommended amount (i.e. 15% for a restaurant meal) as long as the service was adequate. The reason there is a recommended amount on the ship is simple- it gives everyone a guideline to go by since there is no meal cost to use.

 

Just to put this whole thing in perspective- I had to eat out twice in one day a while ago, for breakfast and dinner. Between the two meals the tips came to $9.50 a person (and we aren't talking eating at highend establishments). So $11.50 a day for three meals and cabin services is a great deal.

[nissach]

We'll have to agree to disagree on one point- if the staff relies on tips for the lions' share of their income then I think there is an obligation to leave at least the recommended amount (i.e. 15% for a restaurant meal) as long as the service was adequate. The reason there is a recommended amount on the ship is simple- it gives everyone a guideline to go by since there is no meal cost to use.

 

Just to put this whole thing in perspective- I had to eat out twice in one day a while ago, for breakfast and dinner. Between the two meals the tips came to $9.50 a person (and we aren't talking eating at highend establishments). So $11.50 a day for three meals and cabin services is a great deal.

 

See here is where I have a problem. If we are ideally tipping for services received, why is the tip a % of the bill?? The amount is then calculated on the final bill, not on how well I was served or treated by the staff. Is service better for a $200 bill vs a $100 bill? Not likely. Do I receive extra perks or services if I choose to order the fillet mignon over the grilled chicken?? Or a bottle of wine instead of a glass? No! The food and drinks were served to me all the same, I just chose to spend more on the food items. But I am 'expected' to pay double in tips. So I am actually tipping on the value of the food, not on the service received.

 

If someone is working for an employer who pays them poorly and then they have to rely on tips to 'make a living' why is it my responsibility to supplement their wage??

 

Do you tip the people who clean up after us at McDonald's, Burger King?(like they do on the Lido deck) Not likely

Do you tip the guys who pump our gas at -30 degrees. Not likely

Do you tip the person at Tim Horton's/Starbucks who serves you your coffee? Not likely

These are all services provided to us in some way or another.

Why not tip them?? :confused:

[sparks1093]

See here is where I have a problem. If we are ideally tipping for services received, why is the tip a % of the bill?? The amount is then calculated on the final bill, not on how well I was served or treated by the staff. Is service better for a $200 bill vs a $100 bill? Not likely. Do I receive extra perks or services if I choose to order the fillet mignon over the grilled chicken?? Or a bottle of wine instead of a glass? No! The food and drinks were served to me all the same, I just chose to spend more on the food items. But I am 'expected' to pay double in tips. So I am actually tipping on the value of the food, not on the service received.

 

If someone is working for an employer who pays them poorly and then they have to rely on tips to 'make a living' why is it my responsibility to supplement their wage??

 

Do you tip the people who clean up after us at McDonald's, Burger King?(like they do on the Lido deck) Not likely

Do you tip the guys who pump our gas at -30 degrees. Not likely

Do you tip the person at Tim Horton's/Starbucks who serves you your coffee? Not likely

These are all services provided to us in some way or another.

Why not tip them?? :confused:

 

To answer your last question first because there is no expectation to tip those individuals (although many people do drop something into the tip jar at Horton's/Starbucks and I do leave a tip for the server in a buffet restaurant because they are still bringing me things and taking away the dirty dishes). It's not that a person is working for an employer who pays them poorly- it's that they are working in an industry where tipping is the standard and the norm (in some cultures, anyway). Bottom line remains if you don't tip the recommended minimum the only one you are hurting is the server. (And I don't recall ever seeing a restaurant menu where the difference in prices was so great that it would result in a $100 difference in the final bill. As far as the difference between one restaurant with a $100 bill and another restaurant with a $200 bill one would expect better service from the higher priced establishment, all else being equal. I hold the waitstaff to a standard commensurate with the restaurant they are working for.)

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

See here is where I have a problem. If we are ideally tipping for services received, why is the tip a % of the bill?? The amount is then calculated on the final bill, not on how well I was served or treated by the staff. Is service better for a $200 bill vs a $100 bill? Not likely. Do I receive extra perks or services if I choose to order the fillet mignon over the grilled chicken?? Or a bottle of wine instead of a glass? No! The food and drinks were served to me all the same, I just chose to spend more on the food items. But I am 'expected' to pay double in tips. So I am actually tipping on the value of the food, not on the service received.

 

If someone is working for an employer who pays them poorly and then they have to rely on tips to 'make a living' why is it my responsibility to supplement their wage??

 

Do you tip the people who clean up after us at McDonald's, Burger King?(like they do on the Lido deck) Not likely

Do you tip the guys who pump our gas at -30 degrees. Not likely

Do you tip the person at Tim Horton's/Starbucks who serves you your coffee? Not likely

These are all services provided to us in some way or another.

Why not tip them?? :confused:

 

This may be a US/Canada cultural difference. In the US servers pay taxes based on a percentage of their total sales. That is a good reason to tip based on the size of the check. They are also only paid about 2 bucks an hour from the restaurant. We don't tip at McDonald's, but fast food employees are at paid the normal minimum wage. We have very few gas stations that still pump our gas for us, but when full service gas stations were prevalent, people used to tip. Of course you got your oil checked and windows washed as well. New Jersey has a law requiring gas stations to pump your gas, but you don't get any extra frills with it. I believe most Americans do tip at Starbucks. I'm not much of a coffee drinker though. I just see a full tip jar every time I go to one. You say you aren't cutting out tips to save money, but reading your posts, it appears that's exactly what you are doing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to it because I was a server and bartender in my younger days. It is incredibly hard work. Also every restaurant I ever worked in required waiters to tip the bartenders and bus staff. So when you stiff the waiter because you don't think you should pay more for more expensive food, then he/she may actually be paying for you to eat there, because he/she is paying the IRS and bar and bus staff based on the size of your check. I wouldn't recommend frequenting any of those restaurants where you stiff the staff.

[nissach]

To answer your last question first because there is no expectation to tip those individuals (although many people do drop something into the tip jar at Horton's/Starbucks and I do leave a tip for the server in a buffet restaurant because they are still bringing me things and taking away the dirty dishes). It's not that a person is working for an employer who pays them poorly- it's that they are working in an industry where tipping is the standard and the norm (in some cultures, anyway). Bottom line remains if you don't tip the recommended minimum the only one you are hurting is the server. (And I don't recall ever seeing a restaurant menu where the difference in prices was so great that it would result in a $100 difference in the final bill. As far as the difference between one restaurant with a $100 bill and another restaurant with a $200 bill one would expect better service from the higher priced establishment, all else being equal. I hold the waitstaff to a standard commensurate with the restaurant they are working for.)

 

My point exactly. I don't agree with the 'standard' or 'expectation' that some industries are tipped for the job they are already being paid for, while others are not. But it is about an employer who poorly pays. Many have stated that tips are a major part of their wage, so to not tip is taking away much of their income. You even said so much yourself. See highlighted.

As for the restaurant analogy, if the bill at the same restaurant is $100 and the next night $200 was spent, the tip EXPECTED would be double. Same restaurant, same ambience, same service, same menu, maybe even the same server, but double the tip. That makes no rational sense if we are actually tipping on the quality of the service. But really we are not, we are tipping on the total cost of the meal; restaurants even give a break done based on the total bill of ideal tipping; 15%, 20% etc. It has nothing to do with the quality of the service.

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

My point exactly. I don't agree with the 'standard' or 'expectation' that some industries are tipped for the job they are already being paid for, while others are not. But it is about an employer who poorly pays. Many have stated that tips are a major part of their wage, so to not tip is taking away much of their income. You even said so much yourself. See highlighted.

As for the restaurant analogy, if the bill at the same restaurant is $100 and the next night $200 was spent, the tip EXPECTED would be double. Same restaurant, same ambience, same service, same menu, maybe even the same server, but double the tip. That makes no rational sense if we are actually tipping on the quality of the service. But really we are not, we are tipping on the total cost of the meal; restaurants even give a break done based on the total bill of ideal tipping; 15%, 20% etc. It has nothing to do with the quality of the service.

 

If you want to make a stand against an employer that poorly pays please do so by boycotting those establishments and not stiffing the server.

[nissach]

This may be a US/Canada cultural difference. In the US servers pay taxes based on a percentage of their total sales. That is a good reason to tip based on the size of the check. They are also only paid about 2 bucks an hour from the restaurant. We don't tip at McDonald's, but fast food employees are at paid the normal minimum wage. We have very few gas stations that still pump our gas for us, but when full service gas stations were prevalent, people used to tip. Of course you got your oil checked and windows washed as well. New Jersey has a law requiring gas stations to pump your gas, but you don't get any extra frills with it. I believe most Americans do tip at Starbucks. I'm not much of a coffee drinker though. I just see a full tip jar every time I go to one. You say you aren't cutting out tips to save money, but reading your posts, it appears that's exactly what you are doing. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to it because I was a server and bartender in my younger days. It is incredibly hard work. Also every restaurant I ever worked in required waiters to tip the bartenders and bus staff. So when you stiff the waiter because you don't think you should pay more for more expensive food, then he/she may actually be paying for you to eat there, because he/she is paying the IRS and bar and bus staff based on the size of your check. I wouldn't recommend frequenting any of those restaurants where you stiff the staff.

 

It may very well be a US/Canada thing. I cannot speak to how our servers pay taxes, but I assume most tips go unclaimed. Cash is hard to track. All people working in any province are paid at least the minimum wage. Here in Manitoba it is $10.70 per hour.

As for how hard the work is I can't speak to that as I have never worked in that industry. But I work hard too, so what does that mean? Do you work harder than me, do I work harder than you??

I never once said I 'stiff' people. I just don't need to follow what society says I should tip.

[sparks1093]

My point exactly. I don't agree with the 'standard' or 'expectation' that some industries are tipped for the job they are already being paid for, while others are not. But it is about an employer who poorly pays. Many have stated that tips are a major part of their wage, so to not tip is taking away much of their income. You even said so much yourself. See highlighted.

As for the restaurant analogy, if the bill at the same restaurant is $100 and the next night $200 was spent, the tip EXPECTED would be double. Same restaurant, same ambience, same service, same menu, maybe even the same server, but double the tip. That makes no rational sense if we are actually tipping on the quality of the service. But really we are not, we are tipping on the total cost of the meal; restaurants even give a break done based on the total bill of ideal tipping; 15%, 20% etc. It has nothing to do with the quality of the service.

 

You can disagree that the standard is industry practice all that you want to but the fact remains that for restaurant servers in the US it is the norm with few exceptions and those exceptions are driven by state law. Tips are based on the total food bill. If there is a restaurant out there that does have menu items priced out so that you could eat on a different night and double your bill from the previous night based on what you order (with having the same number in the party of course) then it can seem incongruent but I'll cross that bridge on the day that I can afford to blow $300 over two consecutive nights for food;).

 

As for the same industry, McDonalds is only losely in the same industry as Olive Garden, but McDonalds is a fast food restaurant where tipping is not expected and Olive Garden is a sit down restaurant where tipping is expected.

[YubaSutter]

See here is where I have a problem. If we are ideally tipping for services received, why is the tip a % of the bill?? The amount is then calculated on the final bill, not on how well I was served or treated by the staff. Is service better for a $200 bill vs a $100 bill? Not likely. Do I receive extra perks or services if I choose to order the fillet mignon over the grilled chicken?? Or a bottle of wine instead of a glass? No! The food and drinks were served to me all the same, I just chose to spend more on the food items. But I am 'expected' to pay double in tips. So I am actually tipping on the value of the food, not on the service received.

 

If someone is working for an employer who pays them poorly and then they have to rely on tips to 'make a living' why is it my responsibility to supplement their wage??

 

Do you tip the people who clean up after us at McDonald's, Burger King?(like they do on the Lido deck) Not likely

Do you tip the guys who pump our gas at -30 degrees. Not likely

Do you tip the person at Tim Horton's/Starbucks who serves you your coffee? Not likely

These are all services provided to us in some way or another.

Why not tip them?? :confused:

 

Excellent post. Tipping has gotten way out of hand.

[nissach]

Excellent post. Tipping has gotten way out of hand.

 

Thank you!!

[tkportersat]

OP - you are very generous, I'm sure the hardworking staff appreciates it!

 

I don't really have a set plan when I go on vacation other than the auto gratuities, room service, people that handle my luggage. Camp Carnival would have been on my list too if my son would have gone on our last cruise but he did not. Other than that if someone gives exceptional service or is someone that tends to seek us out on a regular basis, learns our name I will decide to tip cash. As many posted, it really is a personal decision.

 

One time on NCL our cruise was delayed 10 hours...so many people charged over to Guest Services to demand day one tips be removed. This made me angry as the staff had to work extra hard to take care of the folks leaving and making room for us under less than desirable conditions. If anything they deserved the tips more, but many didn't see it that way.

[Baxter]

Someone said it nicely earlier -- when people don't tip or suggest removing tips, they get an earful. If someone tips "too much", they get an earful. You really can't win on the cruise board.

 

I do get angry when people indicate they remove tips because they've paid enough for the cruise. If you can afford to cruise, you can afford to tip. If you can't, wait another year. A tip shouldn't be expected. It should go hand in hand with decent service. I don't mind prepaying tips because I have always had great service -- but I also know I could remove the tips if I needed to. I can't imagine what it would take for that to happen. Like the OP, we tend to tip generously. And I appreciate the fact that they recognize that their kids might be a bit messy in the lido or dining room, so they tip a little extra. Too many times we have watched families tear the place up, waste plates of food, half seeming to end up on the floor, and the family just walks away because "that's their job to clean it up".

[sandyh85]

It may very well be a US/Canada thing. I cannot speak to how our servers pay taxes, but I assume most tips go unclaimed. Cash is hard to track. All people working in any province are paid at least the minimum wage. Here in Manitoba it is $10.70 per hour.

As for how hard the work is I can't speak to that as I have never worked in that industry. But I work hard too, so what does that mean? Do you work harder than me, do I work harder than you??

I never once said I 'stiff' people. I just don't need to follow what society says I should tip.

 

Actually, you may be correct about Manitoba, but here in Ontario, and at least Quebec, servers make a lower minimum "alcohol server" wage.

 

When I used to serve, it was a couple bucks lower than minimum and a dollar and change less than under 18 year old minimum wage (another crowd that makes less).

 

While not all tips are usually claimed on income tax (naturally, cash is tough to track), more and more card purchases make it easy if a tax audit is done. Which if someone who makes server wage and reports low tip earnings is likely to happen.

 

On a side note, servers at major chain restaurants are increasingly tipping out back of the house staff based on 15% of the sales price. Therefore if you don't tip the "recommended" 15%, they can actually owe others. A horrible practice.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Forums mobile app

[linbobky]

Someone said it nicely earlier -- when people don't tip or suggest removing tips, they get an earful. If someone tips "too much", they get an earful. You really can't win on the cruise board.

 

I do get angry when people indicate they remove tips because they've paid enough for the cruise. If you can afford to cruise, you can afford to tip. If you can't, wait another year. A tip shouldn't be expected. It should go hand in hand with decent service. I don't mind prepaying tips because I have always had great service -- but I also know I could remove the tips if I needed to. I can't imagine what it would take for that to happen. Like the OP, we tend to tip generously. And I appreciate the fact that they recognize that their kids might be a bit messy in the lido or dining room, so they tip a little extra. Too many times we have watched families tear the place up, waste plates of food, half seeming to end up on the floor, and the family just walks away because "that's their job to clean it up".

 

maybe the ones who are making the mess, are the people who remove their tips!!:D

[nissach]

maybe the ones who are making the mess, are the people who remove their tips!!:D

 

That does not apply to me;)

[liquorstore]

Personally I always pre pay auto tips to cover the most services. I then get a supply of $1 coins for tips. Not only does it set up a segregated tip fund but the coins are a novelty to the recipient.