Will Fuel Shortages Affect Princess Ships

[RSGS315]

We had a fuel surcharge added to a Costa cruise in 1974, after we had made final payment. I don't remember the amount, but it came as a surprise to us at the time.

Ginnie

[Pam in CA]

Keep in mind that Princess refuels wherever they can get the best price so that while we're seeing oil prices going up in the U.S., they may find it's cheaper elsewhere in the Caribbean, etc.

[mambopalace]

What fuel shortage?

[kryos]

If Princess would add this, even if we have paid for our cruise, we would still have to pay this. Sort of like when port charges go up and the cruise lines add a couple of dollars to your account and notify you via the Princess Patters.

And, I for one, have a real problem with this. When I book an airline ticket, I am "stuck" paying the going rate. If I feel that rate is too high, tough ... I don't book. If I pay the rate, then that's the amount I contracted for. If airline prices go down between the time I book and when I travel, that's my tough luck. I don't go looking to the airline to cut me a better deal. I got the deal I contracted for.

 

Same with the fuel surcharges. Fuel is a cost of doing business. When the cruise line gives me a price for a cruise, and I accept that price, then that's what I pay. If the cruise line's costs go up between the time I book and when I sail, that's their problem. Obviously, they didn't do their cost analyses properly when the set the prices for my cruise. On the other hand, I don't get myself all bent out of shape if the prices on my cruise drop as we get closer to sail date, and the cruise line refuses to give me a break. Hey, I bargained for a certain price and that's what I got. Now, what's my problem?

 

Port charges are entirely different. Those charges are in no way going to the cruise line. Those monies are collected by the various port authorities and if those port authorities raise prices, I realize the cruise line can do little to nothing about it. I can understand a slight increase in port charges from what I bargained for. I also expect to be refunded my port charges (what little they are) when a port is skipped due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

No, while I will accept an increase in port charges, I have a real hard time stomaching these fuel surcharges. The increase in fuel prices should be absorbed by the prices set on future sailings ... not mine that I bought and paid for months ago.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bdjam]

No, while I will accept an increase in port charges, I have a real hard time stomaching these fuel surcharges. The increase in fuel prices should be absorbed by the prices set on future sailings ... not mine that I bought and paid for months ago.

Isn’t it really dependent on the fuel cost and whether or not the cruise line can afford to get the ship away from the pier? It's difficult to forecast how, for example, a major hurricane will affect the delivery of fuel to a cruise ship pier. Refineries may be flooded, pipelines may be closed. If someone bought their cruise ticket six months ago and suddenly the price of fuel becomes prohibitive, is the cruise line supposed to sail the ship at a loss of money? What does that do to the industry? As Coral points out, the cruise line builds protection against this type of situation into the cruise contract. If you purchase your ticket, you agree to changes in fare due to changes in the cost of fuel...it's really that simple...

[coiran]

Well said - bdjam!!

 

Ron

[kryos]

If someone bought their cruise ticket six months ago and suddenly the price of fuel becomes prohibitive, is the cruise line supposed to sail the ship at a loss of money?

Yes. They absorb those increases into the cost of FUTURE cruises and charge higher rates to the people taking them.

 

As for forecasting, yes ... to some degree a cruiseline should be able to forecast the future price of fuel. Commodities traders do it all the time ... and they gamble their fortunes on those predictions.

 

If I book my cruise today ... and the cost of fuel goes DOWN before I sail ... or the federal government decides to give some big "concession" to the cruise line industry ... such as eliminating the Jones Act or some other such requirement that saves the cruise line a boatload of money on future operating costs ... do I expect them to now turn around and say ... "dear customer, we are cutting the cost of your cruise down by $300 because we didn't anticipate our costs decreasing by so much?" When pigs fly.

 

Well, don't penalize me because your fuel costs went up. Add those increased costs to future cruisers' voyages, and believe me ... when I book my next one, I'll be helping to pay them too.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[coiran]

The price of fuel can be forecasted barring circumstances such as Katrina - I'l bet that two days before it hit there was some wild speculation going on -some probably made big bucks and some lost big bucks - but - to say that they could predict the impact of Katrina is a little bit of a reach! just my opinion - I am an engineer not a stockbroker.

 

Ron

[kryos]

The price of fuel can be forecasted barring circumstances such as Katrina - I'l bet that two days before it hit there was some wild speculation going on -some probably made big bucks and some lost big bucks - but - to say that they could predict the impact of Katrina is a little bit of a reach! just my opinion - I am an engineer not a stockbroker.

I dabble in the stock market and am planning on getting into the commodities market soon. It is just that ... a gamble. It's sort of the same thing as going to Vegas, though not quite as dependent on pure luck. Some knowlege is also required. However, if I buy 1000 shares of a certain stock because I think a new product announcement is going to come out in the next couple of days that will drive that stock up ... and I turn out to be wrong and lose a few cents per share over the course of those intervening days, then that's my loss. Obviously someone else gained because they forecasted better than I did. The same with Katrina. While I agree, the severity of the devastation maybe couldn't have been imagined, the fact that we were going to have hurricanes and the fact that one could devastate domestic oil production could certainly have been predicted. From the news reports I have heard, officials in New Orleans have been running models for years concerning what would happen if a category 4 or 5 hurricane ever hit their region. Their models pretty much played out. Yet people chose to live in what is essentially a bathtub ... an area below sea level that could very easily have been flooded out given the right conditions.

 

The same with fuel costs ... food costs ... and any other costs associated with operating a cruise line. Greater minds than ours have developed computer models to forecast these things. Fuel costs have been rising steadily even without the devastation caused by Katrina. The cruise lines should have been preparing for that and should have slowly inched their fuel prices higher in their pricing models over the past several years.

 

Again, I say ... if I contract to pay $1000 for a cruise a year out, $1000 is the price I agreed to pay. If the costs go up or down is of no consequence. I pay $1000. Sometimes I win, and then other times I will kick myself for booking so far in advance because I now see the prices $300 to $400 less at the online sites because perhaps that particular cruise has not been selling very well and now the cruise line is panicking because they may be sailing with a couple hundred empty cabins. Too bad for me. I paid the $1000 and the person sitting next to me in the Horizon Court only paid $700. I didn't forecast properly and I lost. They used a better strategy and they won. That's life.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[coiran]

I dabble in the stock market and am planning on getting into the commodities market soon. It is just that ... a gamble. It's sort of the same thing as going to Vegas, though not quite as dependent on pure luck. Some knowlege is also required. However, if I buy 1000 shares of a certain stock because I think a new product announcement is going to come out in the next couple of days that will drive that stock up ... and I turn out to be wrong and lose a few cents per share over the course of those intervening days, then that's my loss. Obviously someone else gained because they forecasted better than I did. The same with Katrina. While I agree, the severity of the devastation maybe couldn't have been imagined, the fact that we were going to have hurricanes and the fact that one could devastate domestic oil production could certainly have been predicted. From the news reports I have heard, officials in New Orleans have been running models for years concerning what would happen if a category 4 or 5 hurricane ever hit their region. Their models pretty much played out. Yet people chose to live in what is essentially a bathtub ... an area below sea level that could very easily have been flooded out given the right conditions.

 

The same with fuel costs ... food costs ... and any other costs associated with operating a cruise line. Greater minds than ours have developed computer models to forecast these things. Fuel costs have been rising steadily even without the devastation caused by Katrina. The cruise lines should have been preparing for that and should have slowly inched their fuel prices higher in their pricing models over the past several years.

 

Again, I say ... if I contract to pay $1000 for a cruise a year out, $1000 is the price I agreed to pay. If the costs go up or down is of no consequence. I pay $1000. Sometimes I win, and then other times I will kick myself for booking so far in advance because I now see the prices $300 to $400 less at the online sites because perhaps that particular cruise has not been selling very well and now the cruise line is panicking because they may be sailing with a couple hundred empty cabins. Too bad for me. I paid the $1000 and the person sitting next to me in the Horizon Court only paid $700. I didn't forecast properly and I lost. They used a better strategy and they won. That's life.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Have it your way - and may the gods be with you!!

 

Ron

[Coral]

Again, I say ... if I contract to pay $1000 for a cruise a year out, $1000 is the price I agreed to pay. If the costs go up or down is of no consequence. I pay $1000. Sometimes I win, and then other times I will kick myself for booking so far in advance because I now see the prices $300 to $400 less at the online sites because perhaps that particular cruise has not been selling very well and now the cruise line is panicking because they may be sailing with a couple hundred empty cabins. Too bad for me. I paid the $1000 and the person sitting next to me in the Horizon Court only paid $700. I didn't forecast properly and I lost. They used a better strategy and they won. That's life.

 

--rita

 

You actually agree to the Princess contract (not just the $1000 fare) which says that if they choose to impose a fuel charge, you have to pay that additional amount. This isn't something negotiable. This is part of the contract (a legal document) you agree to when you choose to cruise Princess or any other line that has this written into the contract.

 

It is not a matter if you like it or not or think that they should only do this for future passengers, this is part of the contract.

 

Personally - I hope the large cruise lines can absorb any increase but if they choose not to absorb it, we legally can be charged, regardless if we have made final payment.

[tomcarson]

Again, I say ... if I contract to pay $1000 for a cruise a year out, $1000 is the price I agreed to pay. If the costs go up or down is of no consequence. I pay $1000. Sometimes I win, and then other times I will kick myself for booking so far in advance because I now see the prices $300 to $400 less at the online sites because perhaps that particular cruise has not been selling very well and now the cruise line is panicking because they may be sailing with a couple hundred empty cabins. Too bad for me. I paid the $1000 and the person sitting next to me in the Horizon Court only paid $700. I didn't forecast properly and I lost. They used a better strategy and they won. That's life.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Kyros -- go back and read the contract. If you had read the contract you will see that your argument is not accurate. The cruise lines can add additional charges to your shipboard account if they need to. This is written into all cruise lines and airlines contracts to protect them from unexpected charges.

[kryos]

It is not a matter if you like it or not or think that they should only do this for future passengers, this is part of the contract.

They may be able to legally do it, but it would be a pr nightmare ... and would be just another example of big business not playing fair with their customers. Like I said, this conversation is all academic anyway ... we will ALL pay the increased fuel charges when we book our next cruise ... because even if those costs go down in the interim, we will be paying for the spike experienced during this period in history. The cruise lines will merely be recouping their costs.

 

So, the only way to actually avoid paying for the additional fuel costs will be by not booking anymore cruises ... something most of us ... at least those of us on this board ... are probably not willing to do, myself included.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Kyros -- go back and read the contract. If you had read the contract you will see that your argument is not accurate. The cruise lines can add additional charges to your shipboard account if they need to. This is written into all cruise lines and airlines contracts to protect them from unexpected charges.

What protects me, then, from price gouging? What if the cruise lines' costs go way down? Are they then obligated to give me a "break" on the price I agreed to pay perhaps a year out?

 

That's why I have a problem with stuff like fuel surcharges and probably wouldn't sail a line again that levied one on me.

 

The other night I decided that I'd better book my air for my two upcoming cruises. This was before Hurricane Katrina actually hit, but while she was very much a threat far out in the ocean. Normally, I would not book air so far in advance. My cruises are not until December (Miami) and January (San Diego). But, I made a decision that given the state of fuel price increases, coupled by any possible impact this hurricane could have on oil production, I would take my "chances" and book now. I got a price of about $179 round trip Miami and $279 round trip San Diego. Both were prices that were higher than I was used to paying. I generally got Florida for about $145 and last year got Los Angeles for about $179. Basically, I took a chance and booked. When I get closer ... perhaps early November ... and I check the air prices on those same sites, I may find that I did a smart thing. I also may find that I did something very dumb because maybe I can now get San Diego for $150. If that's the case, too bad for me. I lost. But I would have a real problem if I got an email in my queue come November telling me that the cost of my air ticket just went up by $50 for a fuel surcharge. My feeling would be, if your airline ticket prices went down, would I have been able to issue myself a credit voucher for the difference?

 

So, yes ... fuel surcharges are in my contract with the cruise line. I realize that. If they decide to levy one, I guess I am stuck and will have to pay it. But, rest assured, if they levy one, it will be the last cruise ticket I will buy on that line ... because that will tell me that the line doesn't play fair with its customers.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[tomcarson]

So, yes ... fuel surcharges are in my contract with the cruise line. I realize that. If they decide to levy one, I guess I am stuck and will have to pay it. But, rest assured, if they levy one, it will be the last cruise ticket I will buy on that line ... because that will tell me that the line doesn't play fair with its customers.

 

They are playing fair. They are telling you up front in your cruise contract that they can charge you more. Ask a lawyer if this is fair? He will say yes, because you agree to it in your contract.

 

Do you also refuse to cruise lines who have increased port charges on your account, who skip ports for covered reasons if you agree to those reasons or not or ask for a refund if it rains?

[tomcarson]

They may be able to legally do it, but it would be a pr nightmare ... and would be just another example of big business not playing fair with their customers.

--rita

 

A PR nightmare would be if the cruise line didn't recognize the price increase in fuel would affect their bottom line, didn't increase fares or fees and had to file bankruptcy or post record losses because the cost of fuel increased so much that the cost of the cruise fare didn't cover their expenses. This would be a PR nightmare. An extra fuel charge of $3 a day would not be a PR nighmare.

[coiran]

With Northwest you can get a credit voucher if the price goes down - it used to be a no fee deal, now it costs $25 to get it. I booked tickets for DTW`to FLL a while back for $250 and it came down to $136 - I changed twice and now have vouchers for about $60 - so - it can be done and NWA has never charged me when prices go up!

 

Ron

[kryos]

They are playing fair. They are telling you up front in your cruise contract that they can charge you more. Ask a lawyer if this is fair? He will say yes, because you agree to it in your contract.

 

Do you also refuse to cruise lines who have increased port charges on your account, who skip ports for covered reasons if you agree to those reasons or not or ask for a refund if it rains?

If a cruise line skips a port because of weather or some other such valid reason, I have no problem whatsoever with that. They are looking out for my comfort and safety, and I appreciate that. If the port charges increase, I realize that is beyond the cruise line's control ... and I don't have a contract with the port authority ... so I pay them. That additional money does not go into the cruise line's pocket. But, by the same token, if we skip a port (see above), I expect a refund of my port charges, as small as that may be.

 

True, we agree to a fuel surcharge in our cruise contract, but ... that basically is a contract of adhesion. We either accept the term or we don't cruise. There really is no choice.

 

So, yes ... I would say that adding a fuel surcharge, while certainly legal (because of the contract), is still not fair.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

With Northwest you can get a credit voucher if the price goes down - it used to be a no fee deal, now it costs $25 to get it. I booked tickets for DTW`to FLL a while back for $250 and it came down to $136 - I changed twice and now have vouchers for about $60 - so - it can be done and NWA has never charged me when prices go up!

I will definitely have to look into travel on that airline. They sound like a very good company to do business with!

 

They just merged with U.S. Air, right? I think they will be operating out of Philly International now.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bdjam]

So, yes ... fuel surcharges are in my contract with the cruise line. I realize that. If they decide to levy one, I guess I am stuck and will have to pay it. But, rest assured, if they levy one, it will be the last cruise ticket I will buy on that line ... because that will tell me that the line doesn't play fair with its customers.

Maybe I’ve been brainwashed by corporate business practices, but since when does doing what is stated in a contract considered unfair play? It is totally understandable to me why a company would pass the cost of doing business on to its customers…it happens every day in every business. Why would a cruise line be any different – especially since the condition is expressed in the contract?

 

I understand your point, when you purchased the cruise the price was based on a lower fuel cost – but does the completion of the contract happen when you purchase the ticket or when the cruise commences? When you bought your ticket, the fuel that is going to be expended on your cruise hadn’t even been bought yet. Forecasting is one thing but predicting the future is something else – and you said it – it’s a forecast – a gamble.

 

I don’t doubt that we’re all interested in getting the best value for our dollar, but expecting the cruise line to eat the differences in fuel costs – even after they’ve protected themselves with their cruise contract – is asking a lot. It could seriously affect the corporate business model and put a cruise line right out of business.

 

And I would seriously think that if one cruise line "didn't play fair" they all wouldn't play fair. It would be difficult to find one that did.

[tomcarson]

I will definitely have to look into travel on that airline. They sound like a very good company to do business with!

 

Northwest is also an airline that may have to declare bankruptcy due to high fuel costs.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/02/news/fortune500/northwest.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

[kryos]

I don’t doubt that we’re all interested in getting the best value for our dollar, but expecting the cruise line to eat the differences in fuel costs – even after they’ve protected themselves with their cruise contract – is asking a lot. It could seriously affect the corporate business model and put a cruise line right out of business.

I don't expect them to eat the increased fuel costs. Like I said, I will pay them when I book my next cruise. Of course, they will pass them on ... my dispute is with to whom they pass them on. I say my ticket is carved in stone. I negotiated and agreed upon a set price for it with the cruise line (okay, via my travel agent) ... my ticket should not go up. However, next year ... when I go to book that next cruise ... and see how much more I am going to have to pay ... I'll realize that I am only then getting socked with the fuel "surcharge" that I avoided the year before. However, in that case, I either agree to the higher price being charged at that time, or I don't cruise. Simple as that.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[coiran]

Be advised - Northwest does not issue the vouchers automatically - you have to request them - and - the only way you know is by checking the price on their website on a (daily)? basis. Good Luck!

 

Ron

[RASHOPPER2]

American Airlines Will Also Give You A Voucher, If Your Air Fare Goes Down. It Does Not Happen Automatically - You Have To Ask For It. By The Way Most Cruise Lines Lower Your Fare If The Fare Is Lowered Before You Make Full Payment. Again You Must Ask For It. It Does Mean Checking Travel Sites Often, But Can Be Worth It.