Proof of 18% gratuity on specialty restaurants

[maywell]

I think the 18% is on any bill you're signing now. Even those character breakfasts where they serve atrocious food. This is the new reality unless we stand together and don't give in.

 

As for our cruise ticket not covering staff to serve us, shouldn't it? Would people finally say enough is enough when the captain is part of the DSC because our cruise ticket doesn't cover someone to safely guide the ship to our destination? Please don't say that won't happen because no one thought this 18% would either. Plus since there is no transparency at NCL, we don't know who is dipping into the DSC pool.

 

I have no objection in rewarding staff for serving me, I object in rewarding NCL while pretending it is for the staff.

 

Way things are going, I give it about 5 years and hopefully NCL will not be the 1st to do it....

 

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[swedish weave]

Here is an interesting tidbit from Seatrade Insider regarding the job cuts and responsibilities at NCL. Does the name sound familiar ?

 

Frank Del Rio Jr. continues as svp port, destination and on-board revenue, for all three brands.

 

Maybe the "on board revenue" applies to the increases in DSC and gratuities.

[Robin122]

Since you have a source actually working on a ship, curious how this was presented to the servers by NCL as far as why it was being done. What is the servers point of view? Has his share of the DSC been decreased as a result of the addition of the 18% auto grat?

 

I don't like this 18% add on either, but I have to keep reminding myself that the DSC is not just simply pooled and divided equally between x number of employees. Some are more or less "equal" than others;). Would be interesting to hear what NCL is saying to the employees if your friend is willing to share.

 

I don't know when he will be online again, but I'll send your question to him...

[Demonyte]

I have a friend who is a server on POA (and has been for a long time) and here is what he said about this ...

 

Since you have a source actually working on a ship, curious how this was presented to the servers by NCL as far as why it was being done.

 

POA is affected by different labor laws and practices than the rest of the fleet, especially in this matter. While it'd be really nice to hear about things from staff's perspective, it is not necessarily how things are done on the rest of the ships.

[sjbdtz]

If I completely remove my DSC, all the folks who served me for the week will have to share an entire nickel ($0.05) of DSC less than otherwise. (1/4000 * $200 for the cabin)

 

And if the "pool" is fleet wide and not just ship wide, they'd have to make do with just half a cent ($0.005) of DSC less. That's everybody: room steward, MDR/buffet wait staff, laundry people, etc., etc.

 

NCL would notice this long before there's any significant impact on workers.

 

 

Sunder: there aren't 4000 people in the pool... bartenders, butlers, concierges, kid's club, all Staff, etc. aren't in the pool.

 

And there are only 1000 - 1500 members on board at all.

 

So using your logic, it would be approx 1 / 750 * 200 for the cabin = $ 0.27. So you were only off by 80%.

 

 

 

 

One thing I do not understand, is why people are considering adjusting the DSC. If you object to the perceived double-dipping, just ask for it to be removed AT THE RESTAURANT. Then you're back to where you were previously, others aren't affected, and NCL should get the message loud & clear.

 

.

[Demonyte]

One thing I do not understand, is why people are considering adjusting the DSC. If you object to the perceived double-dipping, just ask for it to be removed AT THE RESTAURANT.

 

Because if you purchase UDP now, there is no gratuity to remove AT THE RESTAURANT and no way of refusing it online during the purchase - of course in that case the total amount to adjust DSC or to be refunded would be the auto-gratuity added on the package price.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Demonyte

[hawkeyetlse]

Sunder: there aren't 4000 people in the pool... bartenders, butlers, concierges, kid's club, all Staff, etc. aren't in the pool.

 

And there are only 1000 - 1500 members on board at all.

 

So using your logic, it would be approx 1 / 750 * 200 for the cabin = $ 0.27. So you were only off by 80%.

It doesn't matter: the argument was totally irrelevant anyway. If paying $200 is the right thing to do, it is still the right thing to do even if it is divided among 100,000 recipients and none of them individually will notice either way. If refusing to pay the $200 is the right thing to do, it is still the right thing to do, whether you are withholding it from 1 person or 100,000 people.

[maywell]

Because if you purchase UDP now, there is no gratuity to remove AT THE RESTAURANT and no way of refusing it online during the purchase - of course in that case the total amount to adjust DSC or to be refunded would be the auto-gratuity added on the package price.

Others can correct if I'm wrong on this - How is it the cruise line (Any line when you think about) fault that you brought a package that had tips automatic added? Did the cruise line or travel agent put a gun to your head physically while you booking or planning your trip to buy it or else? You brought the UDP knowing fully well that whatever don't use is not going to refunded to you and that includes tips. Seriously, you need to calm down over there because you're not thinking clearly especially regarding the UDP and the stipulations about it.

 

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[Demonyte]

Others can correct if I'm wrong on this - How is it the cruise line (Any line when you think about) fault that you brought a package that had tips automatic added? Did the cruise line or travel agent put a gun to your head physically while you booking or planning your trip to buy it or else? You brought the UDP knowing fully well that whatever don't use is not going to refunded to you and that includes tips. Seriously, you need to calm down over there because you're not thinking clearly especially regarding the UDP and the stipulations about it.

 

I'm very calm, it's you who is mixing things up in this thread. It is cruise line's fault that they are double dipping by suggesting that people would pay twice for the same service, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if the double dipping is done in advance by adding prepaid gratuities on top of the package price or charged individually each night when paying as-you-go.

 

No cruise line can force people to pay auto-gratuities - the auto-gratuity is always only a suggestion and therefore adjustable while onboard. This speciality dining gratuity is "added for our convinience" according to NCL's official response right here on CC - exactly the same as bar gratuities, as stated on every bar receipt (with that I'm fine with because the bar staff isn't already covered by DSC).

 

Let's just stick to the facts, please.

[sundercruiser]

Sunder: there aren't 4000 people in the pool... bartenders, butlers, concierges, kid's club, all Staff, etc. aren't in the pool.

 

And there are only 1000 - 1500 members on board at all.

 

So using your logic, it would be approx 1 / 750 * 200 for the cabin = $ 0.27. So you were only off by 80%.

 

Thanks for this correction. I can't now recreate my reasoning, but I think I might have ended up calculating (and incorrectly at that!) the amount other cruisers would have to pony up to take care of my missing DSC. Or something like that.

 

Anyway, your figure sounds more plausible, so we'll stick with it. A quarter is a lot more than a nickel!

[old sole]

You now have to pay an automatic 18% on purchases at the coffee shop. as well.

 

Rochelle

 

I've stayed out of these threads because I usually tipped extra in the specialty restaurants and while it may not always have been 18% it was close enough to not impact me greatly.

 

But I have to say, adding an automatic 18% gratuity to the price of a slice of cake just to hand it to me from behind a counter is beyond ridiculous. It might be time to start smuggling Little Debbie's!! I wonder how long it will be before they are confiscated, or assesed a corkage (sliceage??) fee.

 

Parenthetically, I was stuck for a long time thinking 10% was a "normal" tip, gradually moving my set point to 15%, but still not mentally comfortable at 18%. I hope I don't have to get used to 25%, 40%, or 100%! At the rate of change I've seen, those may be the norm in some of your lifetimes.

[sundercruiser]

It doesn't matter: the argument was totally irrelevant anyway. If paying $200 is the right thing to do, it is still the right thing to do even if it is divided among 100,000 recipients and none of them individually will notice either way. If refusing to pay the $200 is the right thing to do, it is still the right thing to do, whether you are withholding it from 1 person or 100,000 people.

 

I always tip. And if we were still "tipping" on cruise ships, I wouldn't think about not doing so. But DSC is very far from being a tip, for all the reasons I've outlined in previous posts. One of the big differences is the scale -- the fact that the DSC "tips" are pooled (at least ship wide, if not fleet wide) and masticated and used by the corporation for its own purposes. So while my little math experiment may have gone horribly awry (!), I think it still speaks to the truth: that DSC is not a tip, not even close.

 

I think availing oneself of one's rights under Contract is absolutely the right thing to do. Trying to save money is the right thing to do. Gently urging the corporation to "do the right thing" by using the "levers" they've given me to do so? Priceless!

[deerhuntingal]

I believe it all comes down to one thing. The cruise line wants to make more $$ so they prey upon the uninformed. A lot of people are not on these boards learning how to adjust fee's or remove them altogether and I'm sure the percentage is high on the people who book a cruise and at the end of it, they simply just pay their credit card bill with whatever fee's, gratuities, etc were put on there thinking that is what you have to do and have no say in these things. Those are the one's they want on the ship. The percentage getting refunds and adjustments is small compared to the overall population so they are not to worried if a few adjust their bill. I feel good going into it informed due to all of you here and if the word gets out (it will as people talk to their fellow cruisers) Maybe they will change their questionable double-dipping but don't count on it.

I suggest you all tell everyone you run into on board that options are available if you get this 18% and feel like it is already paid in the DSC. I know I will!

[maywell]

I'm very calm, it's you who is mixing things up in this thread. It is cruise line's fault that they are double dipping by suggesting that people would pay twice for the same service, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if the double dipping is done in advance by adding prepaid gratuities on top of the package price or charged individually each night when paying as-you-go.

 

No cruise line can force people to pay auto-gratuities - the auto-gratuity is always only a suggestion and therefore adjustable while onboard. This speciality dining gratuity is "added for our convinience" according to NCL's official response right here on CC - exactly the same as bar gratuities, as stated on every bar receipt (with that I'm fine with because the bar staff isn't already covered by DSC).

 

Let's just stick to the facts, please.

 

Here's the thing - When buying the UDP now and even UBP, you are already paying the auto tips anyway. So the cruise line already got you in one form or the other there - And the funny part, the DSC per person is more cheaper than the UDP now.

 

So the most inexpensive way to dine is to pretty much not eat at specialty restaurants for more than 2 /3 days for the $20+ or never. Because when do the math for UDP compare to the DSC, its matter of - That UDP better be from a promotion or free, cause that pretty dumb to be willing to buy it and not use it often. The DSC for a 7 day is $90.65 / 104.6 per person and the UDP price is now $140.65 from original price of $119 per person. And even more funnier thing, the UDP can't really use for lunch / breakfast because the things available are free (cover by DSC) or la carte (20% discount but not cover by complete by UDP). Unless of course, like I said earlier; you're a suite guest on Non-Breakaway ships due to the way they're its setup.

 

You didn't think that through- they got you in one form or the other with UDP and/or DSC. Even if you got the $50 back for the DSC, the NCL still got the remaining $90 for you buying the UDP plus the cruise fare - making it a hollow victory.

 

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[njhorseman]

Here's the thing - When buying the UDP now and even UBP, you are already paying the auto tips anyway. So the cruise line already got you in one form or the other there - And the funny part, the DSC per person is more cheaper than the UDP now.

 

So the most inexpensive way to dine is to pretty much not eat at specialty restaurants for more than 2 /3 days for the $20+ or never. Because when do the math for UDP compare to the DSC, its matter of - That UDP better be from a promotion or free, cause that pretty dumb to be willing to buy it and not use it often. The DSC for a 7 day is $90.65 / 104.6 per person and the UDP price is now $140.65 from original price of $119 per person. And even more funnier thing, the UDP can't really use for lunch / breakfast because the things available are free (cover by DSC) or la carte (20% discount but not cover by complete by UDP). Unless of course, like I said earlier; you're a suite guest on Non-Breakaway ships due to the way they're its setup.

 

You didn't think that through- they got you in one form or the other with UDP and/or DSC. Even if you got the $50 back for the DSC, the NCL still got the remaining $90 for you buying the UDP plus the cruise fare - making it a hollow victory.

 

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Someone tried to explain this to you, but you still don't understand that your breakfast/lunch comments on what you call "non-Breakaway ships" don't make any sense. While suite guests on those ships have a private breakfast/lunch venue that happens to be what is a specialty restaurant at night, the breakfast/lunch menus are the same as that served to suite guests in the private Haven restaurant on Breakaway, Getaway and Epic. Only the room where those meals are served is different, not the menus. You're not eating specialty restaurant food that could otherwise be purchased by non-suite guests, regardless of what room the meals are served in. Those restaurants (typically Cagney's or Moderno) would not be open as specialty restaurants for those meals even if the suite guests were not eating there.

Edited March 25, 2015 by njhorseman

[Demonyte]

Here's the thing - When buying the UDP now and even UBP, you are already paying the auto tips anyway. So the cruise line already got you in one form or the other there - And the funny part, the DSC per person is more cheaper than the UDP now.

 

So the most inexpensive way to dine is to pretty much not eat at specialty restaurants for more than 2 /3 days for the $20+ or never. Because when do the math for UDP compare to the DSC, its matter of - That UDP better be from a promotion or free, cause that pretty dumb to be willing to buy it and not use it often. The DSC for a 7 day is $90.65 / 104.6 per person and the UDP price is now $140.65 from original price of $119 per person. And even more funnier thing, the UDP can't really use for lunch / breakfast because the things available are free (cover by DSC) or la carte (20% discount but not cover by complete by UDP). Unless of course, like I said earlier; you're a suite guest on Non-Breakaway ships due to the way they're its setup.

 

You didn't think that through- they got you in one form or the other with UDP and/or DSC. Even if you got the $50 back for the DSC, the NCL still got the remaining $90 for you buying the UDP plus the cruise fare - making it a hollow victory.

 

You are still not making any sense at all. Suite perks have still nothing to do with the matter at hand, what this thread is about concerns everybody onboard (who eats at speciality restaurants) equally regardless of their cabin category. Also the amount of nights UDP is actually used has nothing to do with the matter - if someone pays for UDP, they have calculated that they will be using the package enough to make it worth it.

 

I'm not looking for "the most inexpensive way to dine" or in any way shape or form am I against the price of UDP or individual cover charges at speciality restaurants, I'm only against the duplicate gratuity that is charged now by default.

 

Even if eating every night in the most expensive restaurant UDP covers, you will pay less extra gratuities than you have prepaid or will be charged DSC, so there definitely is a way of not letting NCL to keep the double gratuities by adjusting DSC or demanding the auto-gratuities to be refunded.

 

So NCL does not have "you in one form or the other" - also I have absolutely no idea what your "the math for UDP compare to the DSC" was meant to prove and what does it even mean to compare service charges to dining package price.

[Levanah]

I've stayed out of these threads because I usually tipped extra in the specialty restaurants and while it may not always have been 18% it was close enough to not impact me greatly.

 

But I have to say, adding an automatic 18% gratuity to the price of a slice of cake just to hand it to me from behind a counter is beyond ridiculous. It might be time to start smuggling Little Debbie's!! I wonder how long it will be before they are confiscated, or assesed a corkage (sliceage??) fee.

 

Parenthetically, I was stuck for a long time thinking 10% was a "normal" tip, gradually moving my set point to 15%, but still not mentally comfortable at 18%. I hope I don't have to get used to 25%, 40%, or 100%! At the rate of change I've seen, those may be the norm in some of your lifetimes.

 

For me, the clincher was here: adding an automatic 18% gratuity to a pastry for taking it out of the pastry case, putting it in a paper bag (or on a plate) and handing it to me as I stand at the coffee bar. If I were sitting at a table and being served coffee and a pastry, I MIGHT understand the rationale. Or, I could understand tipping the staff who actually made me an espresso beverage if I had one, too, just as I might tip the bartender for a well-made drink.

 

These added fees just seem to be increasing.

[maywell]

Someone tried to explain this to you, but you still don't understand that your breakfast/lunch comments on what you call "non-Breakaway ships" don't make any sense. While suite guests on those ships have a private breakfast/lunch venue that happens to be what is a specialty restaurant at night, the breakfast/lunch menus are the same as that served to suite guests in the private Haven restaurant on Breakaway, Getaway and Epic. Only the room where those meals are served is different, not the menus. You're not eating specialty restaurant food that could otherwise be purchased by non-suite guests, regardless of what room the meals are served in. Those restaurants (typically Cagney's or Moderno) would not be open as specialty restaurants for those meals even if the suite guests were not eating there.

 

And you missed the post where I said where the only people who I thought had easy chance of reducing / removing the DSC without issues because of the setup are suite guests on ship like the Jewel . Why? Because the only people they would have to pay tips in cash are waiter(s) that serve them for breakfast /lunch, in Cagney's/ Morderno, the room steward, butler and /or concierge without using any other facilities that has DSC-covered employees in it while using the UDP for dinner. That's my opinion, who can get away with removing the DSC without much issue.

 

Now that I think about it, that probably what the extra $2 is that being charge against suite / Haven guests for DSC - breakfast,lunch and/or dinner service at those places. Wouldn't shock me if that was the reason, real slick of NCL ......

 

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Edited March 25, 2015 by maywell

[SJ]

The 18% added to every bill is more like a sales tax than a gratuity. The pastry shop is a perfect example. Ncl wants to be comparable to land restaurants but pastry shops on land don't charge a gratuity.

 

No matter the room category, we are still served 3 meals a day by the staff who rotate between various dining options. Therefore, the DSC does covers all who serve in dining venues. I fail to see how suite guests have more right to adj the DSC than non suite guests.

Edited March 25, 2015 by SJ

[njhorseman]

And you missed the post where I said where the only people who I thought had easy chance of reducing / removing the DSC without issues because of the setup are suite guests on ship like the Jewel . Why? Because the only people they would have to pay tips in cash are waiter(s) that serve them for breakfast /lunch, in Cagney's/ Morderno, the room steward, butler and /or concierge without using any other facilities that has DSC-covered employees in it while using the UDP for dinner. That's my opinion, who can get away with removing the DSC without much issue.

 

Now that I think about it, that probably what the extra $2 is that being charge against suite / Haven guests for DSC - breakfast,lunch and/or dinner service at those places. Wouldn't shock me if that was the reason, real slick of NCL ......

 

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You still don't understand. The suite guests on Epic, Breakaway and Getaway still get served by DSC-covered wait staff in in the private restaurant...for breakfast, lunch, and for them dinner (in lieu of eating dinner in an MDR). There's no difference whether you're eating breakfast and lunch in Cagney's/Moderno on one of the older ships or the private Haven restaurant on the newer ones.

[karl_nj]

On my first cruise on NCL, in the 80's, you tipped your waiter in cash at the end of the cruise. After freestyle, they went to the DSC because you wouldn't have the same waiter each day, so tipping on the last night wouldn't work.

 

When they first opened Le Bistro, the entire upcharge ($5) went to the wait staff:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=ijEDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA63&dq=cruise%20travel%20le%20bistro&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q=cruise%20travel%20le%20bistro&f=false

 

If you don't want to click, it says "A gratuity of $5 is recommended in Le Bistro"

 

Eventually they raised the upcharge, and implied that part of the fee was an extra tip.

 

More recently they have implied that the DSC covered the tip.

 

Now we are told that we must to tip in addition to the upcharge, because the DSC doesn't cover the waitstaff in the specialty restaurants anymore.

 

In 5 years are we going to have a mandatory $5 tip per person for the complementary restaurants?

[maywell]

You still don't understand. The suite guests on Epic, Breakaway and Getaway still get served by DSC-covered wait staff in in the private restaurant...for breakfast, lunch, and for them dinner (in lieu of eating dinner in an MDR). There's no difference whether you're eating breakfast and lunch in Cagney's/Moderno on one of the older ships or the private Haven restaurant on the newer ones.

 

Here's the question - Who'll have the easier time time canceling thier DSC without using any other employee covered by DSC while using the UDP? I say the suite guest on the ship like the Jewel or Dawn because if they don't go to MDR / buffet, they can pretty much tip out in cash the staff that helped them directly. Its all because there's no Haven restaurant equivalents for breakfast / lunch and the enclosed 'ship-within-ship' perks area ( which is covered by behind-the-scenes DSC employees,).

 

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Edited March 25, 2015 by maywell

[njhorseman]

Here's the question - Who'll have the easier time time canceling thier DSC without using any other employee covered by DSC while using the UDP? I say the suite guest on the ship like the Jewel or Dawn because if they don't go to MDR / buffet, they can pretty much tip out in cash the staff that helped them directly. Its all because there's no Haven restaurant equivalents for breakfast / lunch and the enclosed 'ship-within-ship' perks area ( which is covered by behind-the-scenes DSC employees,).

 

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And the suite guests on the Breakaway, Getaway and Epic eating in the private dining room can tip the staff in that venue the same way someone on one of the older ships can tip the Cagney's/Moderno staff.

 

I think you don't realize that the wait staff working in Cagney's/Moderno for breakfast and lunch don't necessarily work there for dinner. I've seen many in the buffet and MDRs, just as I see the wait staff that works in the specialty restaurants at dinner working in the MDRs and buffet at breakfast and lunch. Perhaps because you've only taken one NCL cruise you don't have a full understanding of how the wait staff is deployed.

Edited March 25, 2015 by njhorseman

[Robin122]

Since you have a source actually working on a ship, curious how this was presented to the servers by NCL as far as why it was being done. What is the servers point of view? Has his share of the DSC been decreased as a result of the addition of the 18% auto grat?

 

I don't like this 18% add on either, but I have to keep reminding myself that the DSC is not just simply pooled and divided equally between x number of employees. Some are more or less "equal" than others;). Would be interesting to hear what NCL is saying to the employees if your friend is willing to share.

 

 

Here is what my friend on POA responded with:

 

Lol funny you ask this, because NCL has not informed us on why they changed it (the speculation is that they are doing it because the recently acquired reagent cruise line has 18% gratuity). NCL was not ready to make this change because they did not have the new menus ordered with the 18% gratuity on it, instead the ships print shop had to print them out until we get the real menus which are now on order.

[karl_nj]

Here is what my friend on POA responded with:

 

Lol funny you ask this, because NCL has not informed us on why they changed it (the speculation is that they are doing it because the recently acquired reagent cruise line has 18% gratuity). NCL was not ready to make this change because they did not have the new menus ordered with the 18% gratuity on it, instead the ships print shop had to print them out until we get the real menus which are now on order.

 

Hmm... I didn't think Regent had any extra charges for Specialty Dining... 18% of $0 is $0.