K-Rev Posted May 17, 2017 #26 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I am looking in the other direction for early next year. Sydney to Vancouver and return from San Francisco. Generally business class fares are five times the price of economy. We simply refuse to pay that sort of differential even though, strictly speaking, we could. One reason is that we know a lot of people who fly business and first and they rarely pay for it themselves. Most are current or former airline staff or related to airline staff. Others can combine a leisure trip with a business trip paid for by their employer. I really would have the feeling that we would be subsidising the premium travel of all these people who pay Clearly you have no idea how it works for "airline employees." If we are on a pass it's STAND BY, meaning no seats we don't go. You are NOT subsidizing us. I can't tell you how many times we've watched the plane leave without us on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karennella Posted May 19, 2017 #27 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Clearly you have no idea how it works for "airline employees." If we are on a pass it's STAND BY, meaning no seats we don't go. You are NOT subsidizing us. I can't tell you how many times we've watched the plane leave without us on it. I did qualify myself by saying that we are looking for flights from Aus to Nth America, not the other way round. I have a very detailed knowledge of how it works for Qantas staff, having very close friends and neighbours who have worked for them for a long time. As a rule they are able to access the information of how loaded the various flights are and may choose to fly a couple of hours later on a domestic flight or the day before on an international. Good luck to them and I would certainly be doing the same if I was in their situation. But I cannot justify, for us, spending $20,000 extra to fly Qantas return to Nth America on business class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Rev Posted May 19, 2017 #28 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I did qualify myself by saying that we are looking for flights from Aus to Nth America, not the other way round. I have a very detailed knowledge of how it works for Qantas staff, having very close friends and neighbours who have worked for them for a long time. As a rule they are able to access the information of how loaded the various flights are and may choose to fly a couple of hours later on a domestic flight or the day before on an international. Good luck to them and I would certainly be doing the same if I was in their situation. But I cannot justify, for us, spending $20,000 extra to fly Qantas return to Nth America on business class. Of course we have access to the loads, but you are not subsidizing us, as I said previous, if there isn't a seat we don't get to go, they will not bump a rev pax for non-rev, they don't make any money that way and that's why they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefamilycruisers Posted May 20, 2017 #29 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Another thought - Is it possible to fly a different day? We are on a cruise from Sydney to Auckland in February 2018. My original flight dates were very expensive so I started to check other options. By moving my dates around I was able to save over $500 per person in Premium Economy on Virgin Australia. I had to really rethink the particulars of our land portions but in the end it was worth the savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted May 20, 2017 #30 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Of course we have access to the loads, but you are not subsidizing us, as I said previous, if there isn't a seat we don't get to go, they will not bump a rev pax for non-rev, they don't make any money that way and that's why they are there. With the obvious exception being United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted May 20, 2017 #31 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Another thought - Is it possible to fly a different day? We are on a cruise from Sydney to Auckland in February 2018. My original flight dates were very expensive so I started to check other options. By moving my dates around I was able to save over $500 per person in Premium Economy on Virgin Australia. I had to really rethink the particulars of our land portions but in the end it was worth the savings. Not only "possible," but frequently done. Both pre-and post cruise travel can be accommodated by cruise line air reservation systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted May 25, 2017 #32 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Of course we have access to the loads, but you are not subsidizing us, as I said previous, if there isn't a seat we don't get to go, they will not bump a rev pax for non-rev, they don't make any money that way and that's why they are there.With the obvious exception being United.I think you'll find that that kind of non-rev pax can bump a rev pax on any airline. "Must fly" situations are exactly that, and if the aircraft is full, someone on a normal commercial ticket may find themselves short of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Rev Posted May 25, 2017 #33 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I think you'll find that that kind of non-rev pax can bump a rev pax on any airline. "Must fly" situations are exactly that, and if the aircraft is full, someone on a normal commercial ticket may find themselves short of luck. If it's a deadheading crew then unfortunately it may result in a rev pax getting bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewon Posted May 25, 2017 #34 Share Posted May 25, 2017 We booked LAX- Auckland instead of SFO on Qantas and saved over $1000/ person business class. Ticket from Monterey to LA less expensive than the added $2000. Lots of flights from SFO to LAX are inexpensive. May be worth a look. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbanrenewal Posted May 27, 2017 #35 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Have you tried a consolidator rather than direct booking online? I booked with alpha flight guru dot com for November. We got nonstop SFO to Auckland and open jaw Sydney to LAX one stop for $4450 per person. 1 leg first class, others business class. I live on the East coast so breaking up the travel with a few days in San Francisco before and LA after, using FFmiles for the US flights. If your dates can be flexible. they can get you a decent deal. We were looking for a few days before and after cruise, and got the best price going 7 days before cruise, and returning 8 days after. Alpha flight guru specializes as business and first class consolidator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCHAN Posted May 31, 2017 #36 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just one thought and it might not apply here. Sites have tracking on them and can tell if you are checking the same thing all the time. I would try clearing your temporary internet files or browsing history as this may help. You could also try googleflights and other multi airline booking sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted May 31, 2017 #37 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just one thought and it might not apply here. Sites have tracking on them and can tell if you are checking the same thing all the time. I would try clearing your temporary internet files or browsing history as this may help. You could also try googleflights and other multi airline booking sites. Yes - always clear cookies... Google.com/flights is not a booking service. It is a great place for researching flight options, dates, city pairs and other details for the "best" flights to meet your needs and costs. It will also make suggestions for lower prices, like different dates, and offers price tracking for selected routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted May 31, 2017 #38 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Sites have tracking on them and can tell if you are checking the same thing all the time. I would try clearing your temporary internet files or browsing history as this may help. Yes - always clear cookies...The idea that repeatedly checking prices will cause displayed prices to go up is just urban myth. First of all, it makes absolutely no sense for any airline to do that to you, as it simply increases the chances that you'll go off to book with a competitor whose prices haven't gone up. So why would they do that? Second, if it did happen, it would be so easy to circumvent. You could go to a second computer, or you could open a private/incognito browsing session on your current computer, or you could clear your cookies. So why would anyone bother to go to the hassle of creating such a trap? Third, if it did happen, the people who would be most likely to see it are those who are checking flight prices most often, eg every day of the week. Yet the people who report seeing the price-increase-on-repeated-searches phenomenon are usually not in this category. Fourth, those who are expert in searching for flights and are doing it constantly are also most able to work out exactly why the price has gone up when they see an increased price. We have the tools to identify this instantly. So when a price goes up, we can see a perfectly logical and legitimate reason for it. Those who complain that the price has mysteriously gone up when they search repeatedly are almost always people who don't have the tools and expertise to identify whether or not there's a straightforward conventional reason - so they blame their cookies instead. In other words: Don tinfoil hat if you please, but clearing cookies, cache and browser history to prevent this phenomenon is no more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted June 1, 2017 #39 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The idea that repeatedly checking prices will cause displayed prices to go up is just urban myth. First of all, it makes absolutely no sense for any airline to do that to you, as it simply increases the chances that you'll go off to book with a competitor whose prices haven't gone up. So why would they do that? Second, if it did happen, it would be so easy to circumvent. You could go to a second computer, or you could open a private/incognito browsing session on your current computer, or you could clear your cookies. So why would anyone bother to go to the hassle of creating such a trap? Third, if it did happen, the people who would be most likely to see it are those who are checking flight prices most often, eg every day of the week. Yet the people who report seeing the price-increase-on-repeated-searches phenomenon are usually not in this category. Fourth, those who are expert in searching for flights and are doing it constantly are also most able to work out exactly why the price has gone up when they see an increased price. We have the tools to identify this instantly. So when a price goes up, we can see a perfectly logical and legitimate reason for it. Those who complain that the price has mysteriously gone up when they search repeatedly are almost always people who don't have the tools and expertise to identify whether or not there's a straightforward conventional reason - so they blame their cookies instead. In other words: Don tinfoil hat if you please, but clearing cookies, cache and browser history to prevent this phenomenon is no more than that. Its called "dynamic pricing" and airlines, cruise lines and others providing a transportation service use it to maximize profit. Its an integral component of airline business class pricing. For example, traveling to China last year the cost of a R/T ticket MIA-PEK and back from PVG started at $3,200 at the 330 day point, dropped to $2,900 within several days, the rose to $3,100 when we pounced. It rose steadily aver the next several months as more people made reservations. One month before the flight the price was $6,999. Airline executives in recent testimony to Congress from the United incident fallout admitted they use "dynamic pricing" across the board, to include fluctuating general "fees" based on demand. Demand is a combination of reservations and frequency of internet visits to each flight segment. They also claimed that the fluctuation in fees was "for the benefit of the passenger." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted June 1, 2017 #40 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Its called "dynamic pricing" and airlines, cruise lines and others providing a transportation service use it to maximize profit. Its an integral component of airline business class pricing. For example, traveling to China last year the cost of a R/T ticket MIA-PEK and back from PVG started at $3,200 at the 330 day point, dropped to $2,900 within several days, the rose to $3,100 when we pounced. It rose steadily aver the next several months as more people made reservations. One month before the flight the price was $6,999. Airline executives in recent testimony to Congress from the United incident fallout admitted they use "dynamic pricing" across the board, to include fluctuating general "fees" based on demand. Demand is a combination of reservations and frequency of internet visits to each flight segment. They also claimed that the fluctuation in fees was "for the benefit of the passenger." But all of this is basic elementary stuff in airline pricing. 'Twas ever thus, ever since the concept of yield management was invented (which was perhaps even before the term itself came into existence). What is clear is that clearing your cookies, browser cache or browse history between searches won't change any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLSHS_Mom Posted June 2, 2017 #41 Share Posted June 2, 2017 We are going in march2018. I gave up on the flight costs out of SF to Sydney and switched to LAX. We will have a few hours in LAX but it was worth the $$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted June 2, 2017 #42 Share Posted June 2, 2017 But all of this is basic elementary stuff in airline pricing. 'Twas ever thus, ever since the concept of yield management was invented (which was perhaps even before the term itself came into existence). What is clear is that clearing your cookies, browser cache or browse history between searches won't change any of this. While I clear cookies as a matter of routine, your comment is flawed. Studies have proven that retailers track your interest in an item and steadily increase the price based on your interest. Whether airlines are doing this is unknown to me, but the ability to do it exists and is in use. Its always best to clear cookies and browsing history when revisiting websites. And we do know that airlines increase prices based on overall interest in specific flights, dates and city pairings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted June 2, 2017 #43 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Whether airlines are doing this is unknown to me ...I've yet to see any reliable reports of this. Which is what one would expect from airlines, given that it would bear some similarities to shooting oneself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globehoppers Posted June 3, 2017 #44 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I've yet to see any reliable reports of this. Which is what one would expect from airlines, given that it would bear some similarities to shooting oneself in the foot. If you can find it read the testimony (or summary) of airline CEOs before Congress in repose to the United incident, its worth a read. They collectively admitted to some practices which I felt were questionable, such as that adding fees to the base ticket price was "for the benefit of the passenger." Thus, readily confirming that they play fast a loose with pricing. These "fees" are not the ones "popular" for a checked bag, etc., rather the ones buried in your base ticket price. On our Business class R/T US-China last year an uncategorized "fee" was $750 each ticket. That used to be a "fuel surcharge." Since fuel prices are relatively low, the "fee" continues as the "variable" in the overall price of the flight. While the "base" price of the ticket remained constant, the overall price more than doubled between the time I purchased the trip to the date of departure. All "fees." And, remember, this floating "fee" is good for you as a traveler, according to the airline CEOs. The best option to catch a good price is to use sites like google.com/flights to find dates and routings and airlines offering lower cost flights for the same/similar class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Big_M Posted June 3, 2017 #45 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I've yet to see any reliable reports of this. Agreed. And for all the reasons you pointed out earlier, and personal experience, I don't believe it is done to any significant extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted June 4, 2017 #46 Share Posted June 4, 2017 If you can find it read the testimony (or summary) of airline CEOs before Congress in repose to the United incident, its worth a read.As I've already said, all of what you point to in that post is basic elementary stuff. The existence of those practices isn't news. But none of it has anything to do with the proposition that if you don't clear your browser cookies, browser cache or browser history, the airlines will raise the price shown to you even though the next person could still get the lower fare you first saw, simply because you've already been searching for tickets. Those of us who are constantly searching for and buying air tickets see the other stuff all the time, but we do not see this kind of price-raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkat Posted July 17, 2017 #47 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Am planning a 3 week trip to Australia and New Zealand in January 2018.Two months ago the flight from San Francisco to Sydney then returning from Auckland to San Francisco started out at $14,000 plus (two people business class). It went down to $11,408. I was hopeful it would go down again. For the past 10 days it has been $15, 200 plus. Did I miss the lower price? Do long distance fares come down as the dates get closer?? I am freaking out. This is sooo expensive!! I have other flights to book too as we are doing a land tour in Australia then catch a ship in Auckland. Any info will be appreciated. I see that you are sailing on the Sun Princess. We are also sailing on her but on the March 30 sailing with several extra days in Sydney pre-cruise. Have you checked on booking the air through Princess? We checked independently and found that we could get better flights/prices by booking through them. Another perk they offer is our flight bookings are "flexible" with no fees for changes until 45 days prior to our flight departure. We are constantly checking Princess' website and have changed our flights (at no charge) when we found a better flight/price. I love that we are locked in for a certain price but have the flexibility to search for better with no penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elganpat Posted August 3, 2017 #48 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I see that you are sailing on the Sun Princess. We are also sailing on her but on the March 30 sailing with several extra days in Sydney pre-cruise. Have you checked on booking the air through Princess? We checked independently and found that we could get better flights/prices by booking through them. Another perk they offer is our flight bookings are "flexible" with no fees for changes until 45 days prior to our flight departure. We are constantly checking Princess' website and have changed our flights (at no charge) when we found a better flight/price. I love that we are locked in for a certain price but have the flexibility to search for better with no penalty. I'm only paying $1000 pp R/T from lax to auk/ syd to LAX in January. It's coach not business class. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkat Posted August 3, 2017 #49 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I'm only paying $1000 pp R/T from lax to auk/ syd to LAX in January. It's coach not business class. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Our r/t ended up @ $1247 pp from BTR to SYD / SYD to BTR for the flights most convenient for us. We have a stop @ LAX going over, and SFO on return. Considering we usually pay more for the convenience to fly out of BTR rather than MSY (New Orleans), we are really happy with that price. (It is also coach.) Since we have it booked through Princess on the flex rate (with no change fee), we will continue to check for anything better until we get to our 45 day out deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine100 Posted August 9, 2017 #50 Share Posted August 9, 2017 We are looking at a cruise for next October, 2018. Are the flights any cheaper going through the cruiseline? We are looking at a princess cruise. As flights are not out yet, just doing some research! Any ideas or help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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