who is responsible for our lousy seat assignments on American Airlines?

[nho9504]

My understanding is, you bought a rt biz class ticket, but only use one leg for going to London for your TransAtlantic cruise BACK to U.S. on QE2. The return would be used sometime in the future when you will be in Europe again.

 

Question No.1 - it seems only full fare tickets allow you to book the return leg almost one year apart - most "excursion" type fares only have a few months duration.

 

Question No.2 - unless you take another TransAtlantic to Europe (instead of from Europe), you wouldn't be able to use the return leg from the initial booking, right ? Or, you would have to fly one-way to Europe, then use the return leg from the previous flight, right ?

 

The TransAtlantic stuff always gives me some stumbling block. One time I found I would do better to book a R/T from Iberia originating from BCN, then I booked a one-way back from BCN. Then again, my reference is a restricted economy fare costed only $500ish, vs a $2600ish business fare. Big price difference to many folks. Of course, the return leg would be a throw-away segment in this case, as the restricted econ ticket was only good for 2 months.

 

I have no objection to use 2 tickets, (or 3 or more), using a central city or a gateway city in Europe as the first stop and most likely the cheapest stop from U.S. Then you can go where you actually need to go via other airlines - but that is hardly a "trick" to me, it is more like a common knowledge to most travellers to Europe these days. I was thinking about there may be some "hidden treasure" type of tricks that us ordinary folks who dont own a transportation company wouldn't have known. Those would be something that I would appreciate your sharing the knowledge with us all.

[greatam]

1. You have to read the fare rules and routings. You are correct about some of the sale/excursion fares only being valid for 30-60 days on a return. But if you look at the rules, you may see that the return is valid for a long time. This generally does not work if you try to use flexible date searches-those searches usually pop up the restricted returns.

 

I bought a discount business ticket, which is not fully flexible like full fare tickets. I will pay a change fee when I use it. I picked the longest date AA would give me, which co-incidentally was Dec. 3. I am NOT flying on Dec. 3 and was really surprised AA allowed me to go out that far. Just took the furthest date AA would give me. I booked this ticket on the phone and paid the $5.00 AA fee. Another tip-sometimes the sale fares (which are DEEP discount) are only a few dollars cheaper than the discount fares-an L (discount) vs a Q (deep discount) on AA

 

2. If you read my reply carefully, I stated this method may not work for you. Expensive return tickets only work if you have a way to use the return. I know I do, but not everyone does. I will most likely have to go to Asia, then take a flight from HKG to London. HKG/LON is readily available at pretty inexpensive prices.

 

Flying to hub cities is only ONE way to minimize travel expenditures. True open jaws depend a LOT on the FARE RULES. Lets say you want to fly LAX/BCN, VCE/LAX. If one of those legs (you would generally have at least 4 on AA/partner on that route) is NOT available in the deep discounted fare class, the fare just went through the roof. Back to reading the fare rules. Another tip-Lots of times the fare rules allow bookings through a city you need to go to. But trying to book an open jaw, using just the multi city option, does not use that routing. Result-a much higher fare. Has to be done on a schedule basis, in conjunction with the fare rules.

 

Consolidator fares, 1-800flyEurope, European LCC, there are just sooo many ways to save money.

 

It takes a lot of work. Most people are not willing to do it. Just let the cruiseline do the air for them. But I can always find a better, cheaper way to travel than most travel agents (or cruise lines). It's my money and my time. Cruiselines usually book what is available and be done with it.

 

Now, back to the original question-where do you need to go specifically???

[Bonnie&Rob]

I admit that when booking my flights (I don't book through the cruiseline), I generally book an aisle and a window seat hoping that no one will book the center seat. If the flight is full and we are asked to move around, we do, so you may find your seats can be changed on check in. Most airlines will do their best to accomodate you when they can.

 

We have the same problem with a January flight to SJ as you, SandiKai. We are flying Delta, and have been rearranged several times already. We were flying through Atlanta both ways, then were switched to Orlando, now one leg is back to going through Atlanta. Naturally flight times have been changing as well. As we are also on the Golden 1/28 sailing, maybe we'll see you! There is a roll call if you are interested - the link is in my signature.

[nho9504]

I booked this ticket on the phone and paid the $5.00 AA fee. Another tip-sometimes the sale fares (which are DEEP discount) are only a few dollars cheaper than the discount fares-an L (discount) vs a Q (deep discount) on AA

 

I believe you could book the route online, then call AA Web Support to change the booking to the fare code you are looking for, provided it is available (of course the price would be different). I did that once when AA had the bonus miles promo but required L fare. It was at least a year ago or probably longer though.

 

I will most likely have to go to Asia, then take a flight from HKG to London. HKG/LON is readily available at pretty inexpensive prices.

 

I am curious about your method of getting to Asia - flying one-way, a cruise ? It would seem to me a RTW ticket of some kind is the best way to go. My husband's cousin always uses RTW for his biz trips - He bases in HKG, but covers the globe. So his trip usually looks like this : HKG to FRA (then branch out to European cities), to DTW, to YYZ, to YVR, to SIN, to SYD, and then back to HKG, usually is done in less than 10 days - Pity him.

 

True open jaws depend a LOT on the FARE RULES. Lets say you want to fly LAX/BCN, VCE/LAX. If one of those legs (you would generally have at least 4 on AA/partner on that route) is NOT available in the deep discounted fare class, the fare just went through the roof. Back to reading the fare rules.???

 

How do you get around that ?

 

Another tip-Lots of times the fare rules allow bookings through a city you need to go to. But trying to book an open jaw, using just the multi city option, does not use that routing. Result-a much higher fare. Has to be done on a schedule basis, in conjunction with the fare rules.

 

Please give an example to how it works. bookings thru a city you need to go to - means it is part of the connections or part of the originating / destination ? it would not do me any good if it is part of the connections, right ? Would appreciate to see an example to illustrate how to make it work

 

Now, back to the original question-where do you need to go specifically???

 

If you dont mind, could you tell me what would be the best way to fly back to U.S. after doing a TransAtlantic, to either Copenhagen, or Barcelona ?

 

My simple version is to have a R/T ticket originating from Europe, and hopefully the fare rules allow the return 9 months later, so i can use the return leg (from U.S. to Europe) on a 2nd TransAtlantic in the same year.

Preferrably the R/T is an Open Jaw, so I dont have to do the same TransAtlantic route twice - such as Copenhagen to Miami, then Miami to Barcelona. My gut feeling is, using London or Frankfurt, might be the easier way.

[zebster15]

Same old problem. That is why in the Rccl book or on their site it tells you to pay a small additional fee if you want certain flights or seats, if not you get what you get. The reason neither take responsibility is because the cruise line DOES NOT do the air bookings. It is all done thru a third party travel agency, they used to use a ta called Sabre. That is also why the cruise line cannot give you you seats and flights way ahead of time.

 

 

Setsail,

 

FYI- Sabre is not a travel agency. It is a reservation system used by travel agents etc to BOOK travel. Sabre Holdings owns Travelocity.

 

Cruiselines have in house air/sea reservation agents. Most of the space is done as group/bulk space. Names are not given until 30-60 days out therefore assigning seats before that is not possible.

 

No one is to 'blame' for seats not being available together, except maybe the computer:confused: :rolleyes: .

[greatam]

nho9504,

 

WE have taken this thread far off course. Email me-greatam@earthlink.net-and I will be glad to answer your questions. Please put CC in the subject line.

[nho9504]

I received permanent mail delivery error - address unknown.

 

nho9504,

 

WE have taken this thread far off course. Email me-greatam@earthlink.net-and I will be glad to answer your questions. Please put CC in the subject line.

[setsail]

It makes no difference anyway, Sabre still handles the air (They used to) and that is why when a mistake is made the cruise line and airlines dont have a clue or wont own up to the problem. Its not a question of are they a travel agency but, the point here is a third independent party is brought in to handle air and if you book through the cruise line and want specific things you better pay for it.i have used cruise air, had it messed up, and they did not have a clue because it was All handled by Sabre, no inhouse booking, but maybe things have changed because too many mistakes were made.

[greatam]

I received permanent mail delivery error - address unknown.

 

greatam@earthlink.net

 

Try again-somehow "me" got included in email address

[greatam]

It makes no difference anyway, Sabre still handles the air (They used to) and that is why when a mistake is made the cruise line and airlines dont have a clue or wont own up to the problem. Its not a question of are they a travel agency but, the point here is a third independent party is brought in to handle air and if you book through the cruise line and want specific things you better pay for it.i have used cruise air, had it messed up, and they did not have a clue because it was All handled by Sabre, no inhouse booking, but maybe things have changed because too many mistakes were made.

 

Sabre does NOT book cruise air. Sabre is the back end of search engines, contracting with airlines to provide schedules, fares and available seats on planes. All cruiselines that offer cruise air have air/logistics/operations departments. Call it what you want. Some use Sabre, some use Apollo. Those departments do the actual booking. Lots of times it is ONLY the airlines which can straighten out a mess-not the cruiseline and certainly NOT Sabre.

 

No different than if you book your air and the airline changes flights, flights times or there are delays. You really have to look to the airline to straighten out the mess.

 

Seat assignments should have been taken care of by the TA. But a lot of TA's, especially online TA's, do NOT provide this service. Booking cruise air is the "easiest", but usually not the best, in terms of service, seating, flight times or price.

[Globaliser]

It makes no difference anyway, Sabre still handles the air (They used to) and that is why when a mistake is made the cruise line and airlines dont have a clue or wont own up to the problem. Its not a question of are they a travel agency but, the point here is a third independent party is brought in to handle air ...

As greatam says, Sabre does not "handle" the air travel in any way. This is a mischaracterisation of what Sabre does.

 

The main things that Sabre does are to provide fare and availability information to the cruise line (or whichever travel agent is booking the air travel), to convey the booking request to the airline, and to return the booking confirmation to the cruise line or travel agent. Sabre also acts as a continuing conduit for communications between cruise line/travel agent on the one hand, and the airline on the other.

 

In addition, I believe that there are some airlines whose own reservation departments are in effect contracted out to Sabre.

 

Sabre owns (or used to own) Travelocity, but if you book air travel through Travelocity, Travelocity is the travel agent which is booking through Sabre like any other Sabre-connected travel agent.

 

If the cruise line brings in any independent third party to handle the air travel, it isn't Sabre - it'll be some other travel agent.

[Globaliser]

Sorry, double post.

[setsail]

When we went to Hawaii we booked air through the cruise line(rccl). The air got messed up and guessed who messed it up,not rccl, not the airline, but Sabre (who handled the whole thing we found out). We know this for a fact as it took the airline, cruiseline, and ta 2days to figure out the mistake, all blaming each other and not knowing what happened. Well they put their heads together and figured out the problem was Sabre who did all the air and then it took them another day to figure out who was paying us back. It all worked out great.

[Globaliser]

The air got messed up and guessed who messed it up,not rccl, not the airline, but Sabre (who handled the whole thing we found out).

No, Sabre did not "handle the whole thing". That is not their business; that is not what they do. Sabre is basically a communications channel. Now, if Sabre's communications had a problem, it could indeed mess up your trip - but that is not the same as Sabre "handling the whole thing".

[nho9504]

When we went to Hawaii we booked air through the cruise line(rccl). The air got messed up and guessed who messed it up,not rccl, not the airline, but Sabre (who handled the whole thing we found out). We know this for a fact as it took the airline, cruiseline, and ta 2days to figure out the mistake, all blaming each other and not knowing what happened. Well they put their heads together and figured out the problem was Sabre who did all the air and then it took them another day to figure out who was paying us back. It all worked out great.

 

As explained to you by Greatam and Globaliser, Sabre is neither a TA nor a 3rd party that "handled the whole thing". Think of it as a booking engine or software that the airlines use it on the supply end (input the flight info, fare and fare rules, seat availability, etc) and the cruiseline or TA, use it on the demand end (input the reservations for their customers).

 

Sabre and Apollo are the 2 major booking systems. American Airlines used to own the Sabre system - the reservation system designed by AMR. Sabre later became an entity by itself, and eventually became a publicly traded company.

 

Globaliser already explained the relationship, at least in the past, between Sabre and Travelocity.

 

I dont know what does it any good that Greatam and Globaliser try to give you the correct, but more obscure and more to the "professional" side of information, while you insisted on your misconception of a layman observation. But it does not matter - when the booking engine went wrong, of course things can be messed up and neither the supply end nor the demand end know what went wrong as each side probably has done its part correctly, but the "interface" went kapu. Does it make better sense to you ?

[luvsviola]

I'm sorry for your lousy luck. We are on the same sailing, and are all together. RCCL booked it that way. I bet there were not any available seats on the flight because they put us together.

 

Kristen

[Globaliser]

Making last post visible.