Getting a bit obsessed with Cunard??? :)

[eroller]

I never thought of myself as being a Cunard fanatic like so many posters to the board. In fact I've been the first to criticize them when I felt they were overrated and overpriced.

 

Lately though my tune has changed. I adore the QM2 (probably my favorite ship afloat) and my last experience on QE2 was absolutely superb. Also, Cunard prices have become much more reasonable lately for the product offered.

 

Anyway, I feel strongly enough about Cunard these days that I ordered a couple items for my car. I've attached pics! First is a "vanity license plate". The sequence "RMS QM2" was not taken in Georgia so I grabbed them. The plate recently arrived. I wonder how many people will know what the letters/numbers stand for?

 

Second is a customized plate I'm having made for the front of the car. We don't have front license plates in Georgia so you can put whatever you want up there. I think it turned out pretty good.

 

I know, I must be going a little mad! I still love other cruise lines, but Cunard does have a great history and I would rather have Cunard on my car than many of the other things I see people driving around with. ;)

 

Ernie

 

 

 

[guernseyguy]

Very stylish!

 

Now all you need to do is drive to Valencia and park in Mr Ratcliffe's spot!;)

 

Peter

[eroller]

Very stylish!

 

Now all you need to do is drive to Valencia and park in Mr Ratcliffe's spot!;)

 

Peter

 

 

 

Quite right Peter! I wonder if they will give me an executive job now that I have the stylish tags?? ;)

 

Ernie

 

ps - are you going to sail on QE2 next Jan??

[travel-to-go]

Have you a second car, perchance?

and is that the Bentley or the Rolls?

<teehee!>

Reading JMG's book on the latest Queen.

gotta study up on my Azipod theory!

Karie

[eroller]

and is that the Bentley or the Rolls?

 

Karie

 

 

Hey Karie,

It's actually the Maybach, but who's keeping track. ;)

 

Ernie

[bobby1119]

I, too, am a Cunard enthusiast and QE2 loyalist, looking forward to my first world cruise on QE2 in 2007. I love your plates. I am not sure, however, about how many people will understand or recognize. Good for you that you snagged the tag before it got taken.

[guernseyguy]

ps - are you going to sail on QE2 next Jan??

 

I don't know yet - while I have no doubt we'll have the full cavalcade of wit & beauty onboard, the idea of arriving in Red Hook makes me shudder - I saw it from the Staten Island Ferry - and very unprepossessing it looked too.......time will tell......

 

Peter

 

PS was it just the Normandie Deck plan you wanted?

[eroller]

I don't know yet - while I have no doubt we'll have the full cavalcade of wit & beauty onboard, the idea of arriving in Red Hook makes me shudder - I saw it from the Staten Island Ferry - and very unprepossessing it looked too.......time will tell......

 

Peter

 

PS was it just the Normandie Deck plan you wanted?

 

 

I completely understand your hesitation with Red Hook. It's a crappy area and no place to begin or end a fabulous Cunard voyage. Unfortunately there is no choice so I will try to make the most of it. I'm currently booked on the January crossing, but I have not put down a deposit yet. I might go ahead and put down a deposit although things are still up in the air. In the US, we get all our deposit money back so long as you cancel prior to the final payment date.

 

I will mention my experience sailing from Bayonne (or Cape Liberty as RCI likes to call it) was quite good. They were well organized and the terminal was accommodating. None the less, it didn't compare to Manhattan. I guess it's ok for lines like Royal Caribbean and Princess not to sail from Manhattan .... but Cunard really should.

 

Yes, the NORMANDIE is the plan I wanted, and I just received it. Thanks so much!

 

Ernie

[Bramcruiser]

Looking forward to being Cunardized! Not a bigtime cruiser - likely a novice compared to many of you - but up until now its been HAL that's been my benchmark for service. However, thinking I would never get the chance to experience Cunard I found myself excitedly booking my first Cunard trip. Trying not to allow myself to be spoiled by the experience.

 

As for prices? I agree. They may post exorbitant prices on the brochures but if a balcony on the QM2 is not outrageously more expensive in comparison to a Carnival balcony on a 7 day voyage then I must believe that Cunard is joining the sales war along with everyone else.

[travel-to-go]

I don't know yet - while I have no doubt we'll have the full cavalcade of wit & beauty onboard, the idea of arriving in Red Hook makes me shudder - I saw it from the Staten Island Ferry - and very unprepossessing it looked too.......time will tell......

 

Peter

 

 

Well, Peter, you couldn't POSSIBLY have the full cavalscade of wit and beauty if I'M not on there! <G> (sweetly)

 

And I'd be careful about disparaging RedHook!

The Commodore has little patience for such talk! Especailly for anyone who mistakenly believes (as I don't believe anyone on THIS forum has stated!) that we would not be going under the Verrazano Narrows! As he says, How do they think we would get out of there? (Unless we portaged!) He even drew out the route from Red Hook vs Manhattan on his place card! Taken entirely from his perspective, I am sure he would prefer a nice shiny new pier with all of the amenities to a broken down old (albeit historic) pier and bad need of refurbishment. I do not know what other considerations he might have that we might not share, such as up-to-date facilities for the use of crew to prepare for the voyage, but I am certain that I will like being in a nice warm interior with shops and a more welcoming facade than that cavernous warehouse with only outdoor (in freezing icy blowing conditions) access from one pier to the next, and to my car. My tires were frozen to the pavement, and the sidewalks had not been sanded or shoveled. It was not fun trying to walk across that expanse to the other pier where I had had to park my car, totally exposed, with a cold, and underlying lung damage which makes it perilous for me to even breathe in such conditions!

 

I have to ask- How many people were on one of the top decks as we finally sailed away? Not too many, I will wager, because I was one of them. Ryan and Justin and Jenette were up there. I didnt see any other cruise critics willing to brave the cold for a view. Even behind the shielded viewing area!

 

I did get some marvelous shots, as did Marc. But I don't know the Manhattan skyline well enough to say, Oh look! There's the so-and-so building! Is there absolutely NO view worth seeing comng down the Eeast river? Heck! Just think of all the bodies you could see! isn't that where the cement overshoe factory is supposed to be <G>? Maybe you'd be the one to find Jimmy Hoffa!

 

You will be able to see Lady Liberty as we go out, but not from as nice a vantage point. He seems to be quite excited about the move. I am sure there are operational improvements that a Captain sailing the most modern of ships would find appealing.

 

As a pilot, I would love to fly out of an old field where you run out on the tarmac and run up the steps of the DC-3. Ah, the romance! but really, I'd rather have a safe ship that doesn't sling oil, and a field which has modern facilities, like a jetway and heat and air conditioning and parking! And besides- It's been a while since these legs and these lungs have enjoyed running anywhere, much less climbing!

 

He seemed quite animated when speaking about the move. he didn't seem to have patience for opposition to it, and I was not about to challenge him! I'd be thrilled to be going anywhere on the ship! No matter where the first half hour took me!

 

Karie, who is blissfully ignorant about "the City" (but more than willing to listen and learn from those who aren't)

[eroller]

 

He seemed quite animated when speaking about the move. he didn't seem to have patience for opposition to it, and I was not about to challenge him! I'd be thrilled to be going anywhere on the ship! No matter where the first half hour took me!

 

 

 

Sounds like he has drank the company cool-aide so to speak. Considering he is the Commodore of Cunard's flagship, it is his responsibility to publicly support the business decisions of his employer, Carnival Corporation. Otherwise he would most likely find himself unemployed. I can't say I blame him but who knows how he really feels about it?

 

Red Hook is not a pretty area. There is absolutely NOTHING around it but vacant warehouses, prostitutes, and lots of trucks. While the terminal may be ok (I think it's only a temporary facility for now - nothing more than a converted warehouse), the passengers and crew will only have one objective before getting on or off the ship at Red Hook ... that will be to get as far away as possible to a part of NYC that is more interesting and pleasant.

 

If you still want to sail from Manhattan, there is always NCL who seems content to stay put on the West Side of Manhattan.

 

Ernie - not a fan of Red Hook or this move regardless of how the "Commodore" publicly feels about it.

[travel-to-go]

Sounds like he has drank the company cool-aide so to speak. Considering he is the Commodore of Cunard's flagship, it is his responsibility to publicly support the business decisions of his employer, Carnival Corporation. Otherwise he would most likely find himself unemployed. I can't say I blame him but who knows how he really feels about it?

 

Red Hook is not a pretty area. There is absolutely NOTHING around it but vacant warehouses, prostitutes, and lots of trucks. While the terminal may be ok (I think it's only a temporary facility for now - nothing more than a converted warehouse), the passengers and crew will only have one objective before getting on or off the ship at Red Hook ... that will be to get as far away as possible to a part of NYC that is more interesting and pleasant.

 

If you still want to sail from Manhattan, there is always NCL who seems content to stay put on the West Side of Manhattan.

 

Ernie - not a fan of Red Hook or this move regardless of how the "Commodore" publicly feels about it.

 

Again, I can only state what he stated and how he spoke. And while I have been surprised at some statements he has made that seem to indicate he seems to amenable Cunard being owned by Mickey Arison (such as in the beginning of Maxtone Graham's book on the QM2 when he tells of his delight of being owned by a shipping company instead of a hotel company) I did not get the impression of him as being one to pull punches, or to tout the company line. He may truly be a believer in Mickey's vision. I certainly do not idolize Mr. Arison, but I do grudgingly admit what he has done for (and TO) the cruise industry. He has popularized it and made it affordable. He has brought it down to the common folks, the working people., and let's be honest. me! Before, the only people who cruised (once transcontinental flight became viable) were the wealthy and retired. they were the only ones who had the time or the money, Now admit it. How many of us would have ever had the opportunity if not for Mickey Arison bringing cruisng to the people? I'd wager quite a few less of us would have had the opportunity to even get to know whether Manhattan or Red Hook was better!

 

And I have read up a bit on Red Hook since the topic came up. Mind you, I've never been there, so I can't say this is true or whether it's a bad joke. I understand it is undergoing a gentrifiction. It won't happen all at once, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Mr. Bloomberg is is not going to allow wealthy (or middle class) Cunard patrons to be molested on the street by anyone but the best souvenir sellers and parking hawkers! There are apparently some new places in the vicinity (walking distance) including some sort of upscale gallery, an upscale bakery of some sort and other new establishments. Again, I've never been there. And Manhattan has its share of places I wouldn't want to be after dark.... or before for that matter! And riff-raff, too! Like those wall-street types! <G>

Karie

[mufi]

[

The Commodore has little patience for such talk! )

.

 

As Ms. Rice Davis once said, "he would say that wouldn't he"

 

David.

[Paul NH]

And I'd be careful about disparaging RedHook!

The Commodore has little patience for such talk! Especailly for anyone who mistakenly believes (as I don't believe anyone on THIS forum has stated!) that we would not be going under the Verrazano Narrows! As he says, How do they think we would get out of there?

 

I have to ask- How many people were on one of the top decks as we finally sailed away? Not too many, I will wager, because I was one of them.

 

Is there absolutely NO view worth seeing comng down the Eeast river?

 

You will be able to see Lady Liberty as we go out, but not from as nice a vantage point.

Hi Karie,

 

Thanks for posting your observations on Captain Warwick's comments, although I hope you realize that can be a dicey thing, paraphrasing other people's viewpoints ("That's not what I said" or "That's not what I meant").

 

Just a couple of counterpoints. If it is true Captain Warwick has little patience for disparaging comments of Red Hook, that is his personal right. But Cunard/Princess/Carnival would be wise not to discount customer feelings about elminating a Cunard heritage of departing from the Manhattan piers. It reminds me of "Let them eat cake!" Once the heritage is stripped from Cunard, what else is left that sets the two-ship Cunard apart from the dozens of other lines out there? About the only one I can think of would be the semi-regular transatlantic crossings.

 

To my knowledge, I do not believe anyone was ever concerned about losing the Verrazone Bridge experience. The major objection was to losing the sailaway from Manhattan, the lesser Statue of Liberty view and the experience of departing from a somewhat blighted area of the city. Also, I do not think QM2 officially comes down the East River. Check out the map of where it is departing from. It is south of the southern tip of Manhattan.

 

Finally, regarding the apparent lack of passengers up on deck during your sailaway, maybe the weather had something to do with it. On the June 9 departure, the port side of the Deck 7 was completely occupied (I did not see the uppder decks) and a number of people I talked to during the trip commented that the sailaway down the Hudson was one of their favorite parts of the voyage.

 

Paul

[guernseyguy]

And I'd be careful about disparaging RedHook!

The Commodore has little patience for such talk! ...Taken entirely from his perspective, I am sure he would prefer a nice shiny new pier with all of the amenities to a broken down old (albeit historic) pier and bad need of refurbishment.

 

Karie,

 

I may be mistaken, but he's NEVER going to sail into it - is he? AFAIK he disembarks for good in Hawaii. I very much doubt a New York based Cunard would have moved to Brooklyn, but Valencia based Princess no doubt looked at the logistical advantages (to them) and thought 'no brainer'. All those nice trucks lined up outside to reprovision the ship. I'm also VERY sceptical about the story about how they will 'sail round Governor's Island' - I've heard that they will simply sail straight in. As Paul says - Cunard is all about 'heritage' these days - so they tamper at their peril. My most recent disembarkation at the West Side pier went smoothly - place has had a lick of paint - and was heated - and from down the gangway to into the taxi took 35 minutes (hours better than in the past) - try doing that at JFK as a non-US citizen.

 

Peter

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

Karie,

 

I may be mistaken, but he's NEVER going to sail into it - is he? AFAIK he disembarks for good in Hawaii. I very much doubt a New York based Cunard would have moved to Brooklyn, but Valencia based Princess no doubt looked at the logistical advantages (to them) and thought 'no brainer'. All those nice trucks lined up outside to reprovision the ship. I'm also VERY sceptical about the story about how they will 'sail round Governor's Island' - I've heard that they will simply sail straight in. As Paul says - Cunard is all about 'heritage' these days - so they tamper at their peril. My most recent disembarkation at the West Side pier went smoothly - place has had a lick of paint - and was heated - and from down the gangway to into the taxi took 35 minutes (hours better than in the past) - try doing that at JFK as a non-US citizen.

 

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

Peter,

You are kind in the way you put things. Mind you, I am not trying to advocate for Brooklyn, just sort of playing a bit of devil's advocate and trying to make the best of a situation we all have no control over. Now, I realize we all have various inputs to contend with figuring out his plans. He is not retiring to Hawaii. He is visiting there for five weeks. He is not yet retiring. I believe (not officially confirmed) that mid-July is the time frame. As far as I can tell, he will be bringing the ship in (to Red Hook) on April 22nd or whatever the date is when she comes back in- There will be a huge fanfare and such, just like big inaugurual port celebrations. I'm pretty sure no one will be allowed anywhere near the place after the security we saw on sailaway two weeks ago. (for a normal cruise, but the first one of this year) I will check my map again. Despite the fact that I can navigate an airplane and plot and follow a ranger lensatic compass course, New York City confuses the hell out of me! I admit it! I think this drive down there taught me more than I ever knew before, but I still consider myself ignorant of New York geography! You probably know more about NC than I do, living one state over, and have probably been there more than I have!

 

My statements from the Commodore come from a discussion at dinner one evening. I was sitting to his right, a young woman (and former Cunard employee) named Elisa to his left. I was nervous as all get out, not wanting to say or do anything stupid in the presence of one so respected, and not used to dealing with the higher protocols and ettiquette demanded of his social status on board. Elisa seemed to be well acquainted with him, and not at all nervous about the situation. I must admit, he immediately put me at ease. Funny thing- I had spoken with another CC'er about my nervousness. He said, Whatever you do, don't bring up subjects A, B, and C!"- A, being, of course, the move to RedHook! (I think B was things I didn't like about the ship, and C, I have to think a minute on!) Well, what are the first two things the man says to me! Natch- those very subjects- I forget the exact statements, but one was something like, "What would you change about the ship" or something that specifically broached the subject- I wasn't very negative- There are a few things whihch I really thought were poorly designed, but I will save it for the head office, whom I WILL be writing to- primarily I answered that I pretty much loved everything, and that the only things I thought could be improved were not things which could be readily changed, such as the inaccessible public spaces in the ship. You see, I am somewhat handicapped, and there are spaces which are only accessible by stairs or by going through other occupied spaces, such as going through Todd English to get to the 8 deck swimming pool!

 

Anyway- I forget how the Red Hook thing came up- He strarted drawing a map on the back of his place card, which Elisa asked to take with her. She apparently has had discussion with some people also on the subject. She lives right across the GWB and can see the ship from her home, I believe. BTW, her 82 year old mother and matriarch of a family of 10 on board was to my right. Marvelous woman! Anyway- no, the ship will NOT be going 'round Governor's Island. There is a sandbar there which precludes it. I think he said the ship would have room to turn around and back into the berth, then sail straight out, though I could be wrong about the turning and backing sequence. I wasn't taking notes, and like I said, I was pretty nervous and not well-versed in New York Geography! He's pretty straight-speaking and really does not beat around the bush! The subjects he broached, he seemed to feel pretty strongly about. We also had a very interesting discussion about the Titanic. He later sent a copy of an article from the Journal of the British Titanic Society which he had just gotten to my cabin. It is a passion of his, the Titanic.

 

Anyway, now that I think about it, I guess he could have been speaking of the SHIP sailing in and out, not specifically with HIM at command, though I had the impression he was talking about him sailing her. Could be my bad assumption. Perhaps the second master (is it Paul Wright? I forget the name, offhand) will be guiding her. But I got the impression he would be the one at hand. I could be wrong.

 

Truly, is there anything whatsoever to be be seen coming down Harlem River or East River, or Buttermil channel or the tip of Manhattan on the East Side instead of the West? Or wherever the ship enters the channel and starts her journey? I don't know. I'm asking someone more knowledgable than me! (I promise to grab that map momentarily!)

 

So, sorry to run on, and I am not by any stretch of the imagination discounting anyone's disappointment or feelings. Just trying to make the best of what we have no control over, and trying to see the good in it. After all, we have no choice. And really, I am sure, neither did he. After all, Mickey Arison is the boss. And like my Dad says. The boss is always right. When the boss is wrong, see rule number 1! Remember, he's still the boss. While the Commodore may try to advocate his positions, or those of his passengers, in the end, the boss, logisitics, and perhaps safety (operational) issues we aren't aware of have won out. Who knows. Maybe after the refurb in Manhattan, they'll move back, or bring the Victoria in to Manhattan as her first New york port-in.

 

Karie- feeling very dumb!

[guernseyguy]

After all, Mickey Arison is the boss. And like my Dad says. The boss is always right. When the boss is wrong, see rule number 1!

 

Karie,

 

Much as I'm loth to disagree with your Dad, I suspect Mickey might too - for some of us its the customer who is always right - and this customer may well withold his custom rather than miss the truly epic sail up the West River at the end of a crossing. I had read elsewhere that there was a sand bar near the Brooklyn Tunnel shafts which might preclude the sail round Governor's Island as the Princess Exec initially promised. But then as he also said 'most are asleep on arrival into New York' he was a FAR from reliable source - and you have now confirmed from the horses mouth, if Ron will pardon such lese majeste, thats not going to happen!

 

Anyway, I'm delighted you enjoyed your time at the Captain's table - I've read elsewhere that Hawaii is the Commodore's last voyage - and if he'd asked me what I'd change about the ship its that :eek: tapestry of the Bremen they have in the Britannia dining room!

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

Karie,

 

Much as I'm loth to disagree with your Dad, I suspect Mickey might too - for some of us its the customer who is always right -

Peter

 

Not to worry, Peter, I disagree with my Dad, also! Do I appear the type to sit and silently squirm while the boss blathers on like an idiot? Dad also says it's a good thing I wasn't born a few years earlier. I would have been the first on arrested protesting the Viet Nam war!

 

Having never sailed up the river in summer in the light, I can't compare. It was indeed, beautiful and majestic, though it was a bit harder to appreciate in the bitter wind cold and sleet. I couldn't see much the morning we docked either- rain, snow, sleet, fog,- just miserable. And Sleep? On the last morning? Starting with the mandatory customs "meet and greet" at 6:30, preferably dressed, not hardly! I get NO sleep the night before the cruise, nor the last morning! Too excited (or depressed in the latter case!)

 

I'm not sure I would miss the chance to do the crossing over the pier issue- but then, each of us has our own priorities, and at what point does a coveted thing or beloved event become not a beloved event- when a quarter of it is no longer there? half? three quarters? It's an individiual assessment, of course, and it is not for me to judge how others feel. Some like to go to the disco on a cruise. I probably wouldn't be caught dead there (although I did, at least get to see this one- the Captain and staff cocktail party was held there- an odd space, and very uncomfortable, with very little seating, considering the age and high heels of a majority of the guests.)

 

While I am truly sorry that something of great value to a great many people will no longer be, and I may never have the opportunity to experience it in daylight and comfortable weather, I feel powerless to change that. I may be wrong, but I think their minds are firmly made up, and we can't change that. They are commited to this move. The best we can probably do is write the home office of our displeasure and make sure they know that it is an important part of the experience. After all, they choose ports based on desirability to the passengers, not on convenience to the line, otherwise, we'd all be on freighters! New York is a port, as much as any other, after all! Hopefully, they will move back after the refurb. I still mourn buildings and landscapes destroyed when a historic building is taken down for another stupid parking lot, even when parking is scarce. I rue the blot on the landscape every day on my way to work, where a beautiful stretch of farmed and wooded land near me was deeded to the owner's chidlren, who knew he wanted the parcel kept together and pristine. The daughter promptly sold hers off to a developer, who built big ugly houses (what we call McMansions, over here) on big stark denuded lots. I curse her greed every day as I drive by!

 

So I hope all who do care, fervently, will write to the home office and explain the grandeur and majesty of the setting and the experience and let them know how you feel! Good luck, who knows! Maybe I will also!

 

Karie, who really does care.

[eroller]

 

Just a couple of counterpoints. If it is true Captain Warwick has little patience for disparaging comments of Red Hook, that is his personal right. But Cunard/Princess/Carnival would be wise not to discount customer feelings about elminating a Cunard heritage of departing from the Manhattan piers. It reminds me of "Let them eat cake!" Once the heritage is stripped from Cunard, what else is left that sets the two-ship Cunard apart from the dozens of other lines out there? About the only one I can think of would be the semi-regular transatlantic crossings.

 

 

 

Excellent point. Any business that is in the business of customer service (such as Cunard) had better listen to their customers, or they won't be in business for long.

 

Cunard (or any other cruise line) can't afford not to listen. Instead of the Commodore having a "no topics" agenda, he should pay attention to what the people who support his paycheck are concerned about. In most cases there is a solution that will support customer satisfaction and also company cost savings initiatives.

 

Bottom line ... competition is too great and there are too many choices for Cunard not to listen. The new Brooklyn pier is a dead issue for now. It's going to happen and it may turn out ok? No doubt if Cunard receives too many complaints after the pier is broken in, they will look at other alternatives such as moving back to Manhattan. Time will dictate the success or failure.

 

While I'm disappointed in the change, it won't stop me from sailing on Cunard or out of NY. If my experience with the Brooklyn pier is a disaster, then it would be goodbye to Cunard out of NY until a change is made. Simple as that.

 

Ernie

[cunardqueen]

Ernie,

If you think your obsessed with Cunard, all l can say is welcome to the club!! we are quite a happy band of people, some like QM2 others love QE2 but we are Cunard through and through !!!:)

cheers

Myles

[Colin_Cameron]

...some like QM2 others love QE2...:)

cheers

Myles

 

And some of us preferred Sagafjord and Vistafjord, and have fond memories of Sea Goddess, Crown Dynasty, Cunard Princess and Royal Viking Sun wasn't that bad either.

 

Regards, Colin.

[cunardqueen]

And some of us preferred Sagafjord and Vistafjord, and have fond memories of Sea Goddess, Crown Dynasty, Cunard Princess and Royal Viking Sun wasn't that bad either.

Regards, Colin.

 

 

LOL !!!!

Are you not heading of soon on QM2 ? cant remember which section your doing? hope this finds you well.

Myles

[travel-to-go]

And some of us preferred Sagafjord and Vistafjord, and have fond memories of Sea Goddess, Crown Dynasty, Cunard Princess and Royal Viking Sun wasn't that bad either.

 

Regards, Colin.

 

Don't leave out the Countess and the Crown Jewel!

 

ah, You never forget your first!

 

Karie

[dougnewmanatsea]

Well, Peter, you couldn't POSSIBLY have the full cavalscade of wit and beauty if I'M not on there! <G> (sweetly)

So, are you going ;) ?

 

Is there absolutely NO view worth seeing comng down the Eeast river?

There is a view, but you won't see it sailing from Red Hook, as that's south of the southern tip of Manhattan! (And I still prefer the view on the Hudson, a decidedly more attractive body of water.)

 

Frankly, having seen the view one will see sailing from Red Hook... It is just not that impressive. What you see is this - nice, but it's not the same.

 

Considering he is the Commodore of Cunard's flagship, it is his responsibility to publicly support the business decisions of his employer, Carnival Corporation.

If he really spoke about it as enthusiastically as Karie suggests he did, then either he really feels that way or he's really good at hiding what he thinks. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

 

Red Hook is not a pretty area.

No, it's not, but it's on the upsurge. I wouldn't be at all surprised if in a few years it actually becomes the sort of place you might want to spend time in.

 

The West Side piers are, frankly, in one of the dullest parts of Manhattan - now, Manhattan is pretty small, so they're rather close to some interesting places, but their immediate surroundings are nothing so wonderful. Most people simply leave the terminal, get in a cab, and go somewhere else! I suppose this is precisely the same thing they'll do at Red Hook.

 

That's not to say that I wouldn't rather leave from Manhattan. There's no question that I would. But the two things that attract me to the Manhattan piers are the tradition of being there and the view one gets when sailing to or from them. (I prefer the from, since it doesn't necessitate getting up at 3:30 AM ;) !)

 

If you still want to sail from Manhattan, there is always NCL who seems content to stay put on the West Side of Manhattan.

And Carnival, and HAL, and MSC.

 

But I also think that Cunard are being misrepresented here. From all I have heard, they wanted to stay in Manhattan. But the USCG would not extend the variance for QM2 to stick out into the river, and the City would not allow the West Side piers to be expanded so that she wouldn't. They had to go somewhere. If not Red Hook, then where... New Jersey? Boston? What would have been a better choice?

 

I put the blame on the City for not allowing them to stay in Manhattan, even if they wanted to. But of course, the conventional wisdom puts the blame on some clueless people in California, since New Yorkers couldn't possibly be stupid enough to put the ship in Brooklyn...

 

regardless of how the "Commodore" publicly feels about it.

Now then, is it really necessary to put "Commodore" in quotes? Are you suggesting Karie was speaking to an impostor, or what ;) ?

 

while I have been surprised at some statements he has made that seem to indicate he seems to amenable Cunard being owned by Mickey Arison

Why shouldn't he be amenable to Cunard being owned by Micky Arison?

 

There is no doubt that Mr. Arison cares a heck of a lot more about Cunard than Trafalgar House or (even worse) Kvaerner ever did.

 

Besides which, if Micky Arison hadn't bought Cunard, the company would be out of business, QM2 wouldn't exist, QE2 might have long since disappeared on some forlorn beach in India, regular Transatlantic passenger service would probably be over forever... If you ask me, the Commodore has a lot of reasons to be more than amenable to Cunard being owned by Micky Arison, as do all of us who care about the company.

 

I can't say this is true or whether it's a bad joke.

It's not a joke.

 

My feeling about Red Hook is that it is neither as bad as its detractors say it is nor as good as its supporters say it is. However, it is highly unlikely that at any time in the forseeable future it will become as bad as its detractors say it is (and, I might add, as bad as it really was once), but there are pretty good chances that it might actually become as good as its supporters say it is rather soon.

 

A lot of very desirable neighborhoods in New York City were an awful lot worse 10 years ago than Red Hook is now.

 

I may be mistaken, but he's NEVER going to sail into it - is he? AFAIK he disembarks for good in Hawaii.

No... He is retiring after the 24 July Eastbound crossing.

 

I very much doubt a New York based Cunard would have moved to Brooklyn

Well, as they had to move somewhere, where do you suggest they'd have moved?

 

place has had a lick of paint

I must admit they look a bit better internally than they used to, but the exteriors haven't been painted in years.

 

Honestly, the West Side piers are a dump. They're a historic dump and a lot of us love them for that, but they're still a dump!

 

Truly, is there anything whatsoever to be be seen coming down Harlem River or East River, or Buttermil channel or the tip of Manhattan on the East Side instead of the West?

Well, you see the southern tip of Manhattan, you see the Brooklyn Bridge, Governors Island, the Statue of Liberty... It's not a terrible view, it's just not the same spectacular view one gets going up the North River to the old West Side piers.

[Paul NH]

But I also think that Cunard are being misrepresented here. From all I have heard, they wanted to stay in Manhattan. But the USCG would not extend the variance for QM2 to stick out into the river, and the City would not allow the West Side piers to be expanded so that she wouldn't. They had to go somewhere.

Hello Doug,

 

This a point of interest. Is it a fact? Or is it speculation?

 

Regards,

Paul