Lack of a Dress Code

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Just a reminder: In a recent survey on this site...more than 94% of the respondents on Cruise Critics Celebrity site indicated they wanted to adhere to the "Suggested Dress" of Celebrity. The survey also pointed out that there were a few disgruntled pax who thought that their opinion of a more relaxed dress code was in the majority; clearly, they were not in the majority. They were, in fact, among a small 3% of the total resondents.

 

"The more things change the more they stay the same".

 

Ross

[SailAways]

After reading hundreds of posts for the past year regarding dress code, it seems that one thing is apparent - It will go on for many more years.

Most posts refer to the dress code for the entire cruise, where it seems to be the dining experience which is of most importance to many.

Some Old time cruisers, and newbies alike don't want to see things continue in a downward spiral to the point that anything goes.

It has been stated over and over again, that "I don't care what anyone else wears, and it won't bother my vacation."

That is not true for all of us, even if we aren't aiming for the total "Formal" dress. We just don't want to be aboard a ship with everyone dressed in their "gardening best".

To try to describe the exact correct attire is pointless.

Being comfortable in ones clothes seems to be the most important thing while on vacation, or at home for that matter.

But, to believe that anything goes, is absolutely not going to make others feel that one has respect for themselves or the cruise line and the rest of the passengers.

[F5Loar]

The causal dining area on the top deck is for those that bring "unruly" children who throw food at your table guests the first night. Usually for first timers that see if they can make it through a 2 hour meal with their children who have been raised on a 10 minute McDonalds Happy meal all their lives. And it works for those that don't want to rub noses with the properly dressed knowing they've never owned a jacket let alone a dark suit. Those are usually the ones who "won" their cruise in a contest. If X and other lines provide alternate dining for their guest who wish to "do it their way" on the dress code why do they have a problem enforcing their own rules? That to me is the problem , not the people who choose to ignore the dress codes. It's up to ship management to enforce the code just like it is in any fine resturant on land that has a dress code.

[CruiseReg]

The causal dining area on the top deck is for those that bring "unruly" children who throw food at your table guests the first night. Usually for first timers that see if they can make it through a 2 hour meal with their children who have been raised on a 10 minute McDonalds Happy meal all their lives. And it works for those that don't want to rub noses with the properly dressed knowing they've never owned a jacket let alone a dark suit.

I love that, "rub noses with the properly dressed." So when you're properly dressed, that automatically makes you a master conversationalist? I think not.

 

"Knowing they've never owned a jacket let alone a dark suit." Again, this is priceless. Like a "dark suit" is anything special. And what a silly assumption. A persons dress doesn't necessarily correlate to their financial ability or desire to "dress properly."

Those are usually the ones who "won" their cruise in a contest. If X and other lines provide alternate dining for their guest who wish to "do it their way" on the dress code why do they have a problem enforcing their own rules? That to me is the problem , not the people who choose to ignore the dress codes. It's up to ship management to enforce the code just like it is in any fine resturant on land that has a dress code.

Guess what? X is NOT exclusive. Many times X cruises are cheaper than Carnival, RCCL and NCL! Give up the idea that when you sail X you are part of some sort of exclusive club.

[usha]

A persons dress doesn't necessarily correlate to their financial ability or desire to "dress properly."

:rolleyes: I disagree; I'd say a person's dress has a direct correlation to their desire to "dress properly".

[F5Loar]

It sure shows their lack of ability to understand and follow simple rules! What should you call that? Lack of education with enough money to cruise? As far as rubbing noses it has to do with some people just don't like to mingle at dinner time with strangers. Many times a private table is not possible if you booked late.

A dark suit is no big deal that's why it's rather odd people find it difficult to bring one. Instead they think a Rodney Dangerfield Lime green jacket will do fine. Regardless of their ability to be able buy the proper clothing if they don't like the dress code rules X does provides dining elsewhere so you can have it your way. Why is that so bad? Why would a stranger walk into a dining room knowing they are not dressed properly and expect it to be okay? One only has to look around to come to the understand they might be in the wrong place. Common sense should kick in. When you stick out like a sore thumb, rich or poor others notice. Not that it matters but it should matter to you. You can justify all the reason you like that it's okay to disregard the dress code right will always be right and wrong will always be wrong. You can't sugar coat that.

[CruiseReg]

:rolleyes: I disagree; I'd say a person's dress has a direct correlation to their desire to "dress properly".

Ahh see, the very definition of "dress properly" has a different meaning to to different people. But its your nickle, you can disagree with me all day.

[CruiseReg]

It sure shows their lack of ability to understand and follow simple rules! What should you call that? Lack of education with enough money to cruise?

The boys over at Enron that screwed 1000's of people had plenty of education and probably dressed "properly" often, on and off cruises, but they still "broke the rules."

 

Lets talk about "breaking the rules." Is it really a rule if it can't/isn't enforced? X is clearly telling *you* that they don't care to enforce "the rules." Vote with your feet!

As far as rubbing noses it has to do with some people just don't like to mingle at dinner time with strangers. Many times a private table is not possible if you booked late.

My point exactly.

A dark suit is no big deal that's why it's rather odd people find it difficult to bring one. Instead they think a Rodney Dangerfield Lime green jacket will do fine. Regardless of their ability to be able buy the proper clothing if they don't like the dress code rules X does provides dining elsewhere so you can have it your way.

But this is the reason why you and many others are upset! The *can* have it their way, in the *main* dining rooms! Again, clearly X doesn't care. Vote with your feet!

Why is that so bad? Why would a stranger walk into a dining room knowing they are not dressed properly and expect it to be okay? One only has to look around to come to the understand they might be in the wrong place. Common sense should kick in. When you stick out like a sore thumb, rich or poor others notice./quote]

Ahhh, this is where you are not understanding that everyone isn't like you and self conscious about what a bunch of strangers think of them. Some people simply *don't* care. This is a fact that you'll eventually understand.

Not that it matters but it should matter to you.

Its not my issue, and I'm not one of your "problem" people. I dress according to the dress code outlined in documentation. I just don't care what everyone else does or doesn't do with regards to dress.

You can justify all the reason you like that it's okay to disregard the dress code right will always be right and wrong will always be wrong. You can't sugar coat that.

I'm simply telling everyone that has a "someone else is dressed poorly" experience on any given cruiseline, VOTE WITH YOUR FEET and stop complaining to the world about things that you can't change yourself!

[F5Loar]

The boys at Enron got "caught" and are paying the price. Maybe if X would "catch" the dress code busters at the door and fine them this would come to a fast end and we would no longer need to discuss it here. If nobody seems to care as you say why do hundreds of people on every line bring it up here every day? I'll just continue to feel sorry for those individuals that simply don't get it when cruising. They know they are in the wrong.

I look at it in with simple conculsions. If someone willing breaks the dress code their glass is always half empty anyway. They usually are first time cruisers that either didn't understand or didn't care. If they are stopped at the door and then say they won't come back as a result of their wrong doings they won't be missed on the next cruise. I blame the corporate official he said changed the wording from "required" to "suggested". At least I can think back on my memories of cruising when it was not an issue and in those days there was no alternate dining area.

[Apelila]

Earlier this month, I treated three of my bestfriends to a Celebrity Cruise on Century. I booked the Royal suite to make it extra special. As it was their first cruise; they watched the viedo Celebrity sent as well as, read the suggested dress code. Each of them looked forward to the formal evenings and purchased beautiful pieces for each day/evening. They were shocked at the extreme casual attire overall, especially the formal dinners. Celebrity lost three new families that were considering their next vacation with Celebrity. Celebrity needs to know they were looking forward to the vacation experince Celebrity's viedo/brochure advertised. The image they sell should be the product we buy. If people want a casual experience, but on Celebrity ships then they should advertise "casual cruise" or alot certain ships that provide to this business. They need to decide what they want their core business to be.

[BB5953]

It has been stated over and over again, that "I don't care what anyone else wears, and it won't bother my vacation."

That is not true for all of us, even if we aren't aiming for the total "Formal" dress. We just don't want to be aboard a ship with everyone dressed in their "gardening best".

 

I think it is obvious that the overwhelming majority of people follow the suggested dress. If the 10% (in my experience) of people who happen to be on your cruise and decide not to follow the SUGGESTIONS of what X would like people to wear then maybe you should find ways to focus more on YOUR vacation and not others. It will help you enjoy your time much more (IMO). You should not give anyone the ability to cause you stress or even annoyance on your vacation - I think it is safe to say we all have more then enough of it in our daily lives.

 

In short I think the bad news for people who get all worked up over a handful of people not following the suggested dress is that X is just not going to enforce their suggestions (most of the time). However the good news is that most people follow the suggestions of what to wear. Why doesn't everyone focus on that!

[canderson]

I think it is obvious that the overwhelming majority of people follow the suggested dress. If the 10% (in my experience) of people who happen to be on your cruise and decide not to follow the SUGGESTIONS of what X would like people to wear then maybe you should find ways to focus more on YOUR vacation and not others.

One of the things that bothers me nearly as much as the lack of respect shown by the 10% are the those who attempt to make it the 90%'s problem .. i.e., the somewhat patronizing "you should find ways to focus more on YOUR vacation", as though one ought to spend 14 nights on the ship wearing blinders.

 

I'm curious -- if we ignore the fact that in some X literature the word 'suggested' is used, and in others the word 'required', how would you feel if the wording were changed to 'required' in all of their documentation? Would that change your thinking about this at all, or is the lack of consistency on X's part a convenience?

[BB5953]

One of the things that bothers me nearly as much as the lack of respect shown by the 10% are the those who attempt to make it the 90%'s problem .. i.e., the somewhat patronizing "you should find ways to focus more on YOUR vacation", as though one ought to spend 14 nights on the ship wearing blinders.

 

I'm curious -- if we ignore the fact that in some X literature the word 'suggested' is used, and in others the word 'required', how would you feel if the wording were changed to 'required' in all of their documentation? Would that change your thinking about this at all, or is the lack of consistency on X's part a convenience?

 

I agree completely on the 10% of people being disrespectful... but who cares. It is such an extremely small amount of people. The fact that you feel you need "blinders" for a few people is such an exaggeration that you lose credibility. Let’s not debate facts.

 

And no I don't think it would matter if they changed their wording to required as opposed to suggested because the people who aren't following the suggestions don't care and neither should you.

 

Let me ask you this. Why can't you focus on your vacation and not others?

 

I think it is the people who focus on such an insignificant detail such as this that see the "glass half empty".

[canderson]

I agree completely on the 10% of people being disrespectful... but who cares. It is such an extremely small amount of people. The fact that you feel you need "blinders" for a few people is such an exaggeration that you lose credibility. Let’s not debate facts.

 

And no I don't think it would matter if they changed their wording to required as opposed to suggested because the people who aren't following the suggestions don't care and neither should you.

 

Let me ask you this. Why can't you focus on your vacation and not others?

 

I think it is the people who focus on such an insignificant detail such as this that see the "glass half empty".

Ah, you're doing it again... making the disrespect of others MY problem. Ain't gonna happen.

 

Whether I care is MY decision, and it does not seem appropriate that you should attempt to decide on my behalf what I find annoying and what I do not. I find disrespectful people annoying, as do most people.

 

As for focusing on MY vacation, the environment in which my vacation is set IS my focus as it pertains to my choice of venues. Celebrity does a marginally better job of this than some other lines, and some lines don't bother at all. As others are an inescapable PART of that environment, they become part of the backdrop of the "event".

 

What you suggest, in essence, is that it wouldn't matter WHAT others were doing on a shared cruise -- I should be prepared to ignore anything outside of the floor below my feet and table before my chair. I think you're asking a bit too much.

[SailAways]

I think it is obvious that the overwhelming majority of people follow the suggested dress. If the 10% (in my experience) of people who happen to be on your cruise and decide not to follow the SUGGESTIONS of what X would like people to wear then maybe you should find ways to focus more on YOUR vacation and not others. It will help you enjoy your time much more (IMO). You should not give anyone the ability to cause you stress or even annoyance on your vacation - I think it is safe to say we all have more then enough of it in our daily lives.

 

In short I think the bad news for people who get all worked up over a handful of people not following the suggested dress is that X is just not going to enforce their suggestions (most of the time). However the good news is that most people follow the suggestions of what to wear. Why doesn't everyone focus on that!

 

In other words - we are all to ignore slobs aboard the ship.

You are welcome to do so, if that will make YOUR vacation more enjoyable.

But, I, for one, will continue to submit SUGGESTIONS, which will possibly help the 90% of us who do care where this industry is heading.

I feel absolutely no stress - so please don't fret over that. I certainly am not "All Worked Up." Good Grief!

Even your patronizing response does not cause me any stress.

Thanks for your input, as surely, it is just as important as most, but I hope your "Ignore The Unpleasant" does not impact the cruise industry completely.

[BB5953]

I am not making it your problem - that is the irony here... YOU are making it your problem. Don't you see that????

 

I am not trying to make decisions for you I am just trying to help you see the light. You seem a bit wound up and a topic that is for the most part nonexistent. You certainly have the right to focus on a few people because they annoy you but if you spend your vacation being annoyed just because "it is your decision" it just seems very unfortunate for you.

 

And I just have to add if the few people not dressing for dinner are what make up your cruising environment that makes your situation even sadder.

 

This is just my opinion and I am happy to see so many people share that.

[tbelian]

Earlier this month, I treated three of my bestfriends to a Celebrity Cruise on Century. I booked the Royal suite to make it extra special.

 

Hey, not to hijack this refreshing and thoughtful thread, but one wonders HOW to become 'best friends' with a nice person like this? <wink> ... :)

 

ps. We'll gladly adhere to the dress code, if that helps.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled boring dress code topic.

[lysolqn]

Ever wonder how many of the people who defend the "rights" of pax who ignore the dress code and tell those of us to whom the issue is an important one to look the other way, are the very same folks who relentlessly complain about chair hogs around the pool, passengers who save seats in the theater, passengers who smoke in no-smoking areas of the ship, pax who cut into buffet lines, kids in hot tubs, toddlers in diapers in the pool, kids running wild? Interestingly enough, they just don't seem to be quite as "forgiving" when the rules that are broken are the ones they care about!

[SailAways]

I am not making it your problem - that is the irony here... YOU are making it your problem. Don't you see that????

I am not trying to make decisions for you I am just trying to help you see the light. You seem a bit wound up and a topic that is for the most part nonexistent. You certainly have the right to focus on a few people because they annoy you but if you spend your vacation being annoyed just because "it is your decision" it just seems very unfortunate for you.

And I just have to add if the few people not dressing for dinner are what make up your cruising environment that makes your situation even sadder.

This is just my opinion and I am happy to see so many people share that.

 

You do have a way with words - especially while trying to put them into someone else's thoughts. No problem here - how about you? You seem very worked up over my sanity and reasoning abilities for some reason.

I saw the light - now get off of that one, please.

I did not say I was annoyed. I don't need your advice, or pity. How sad and unfortunate for you!

Obviously, you read much too much between the lines - go back and reread None of your above remarks even come close to understanding what my post stated.

I am just like most cruisers. The entire cruise is the important thing.

So, please stop trying to act like some sort of psychiatrist, and dissect my thoughts.

I am fine; not stressed, I enjoy my life, and every cruise.

Why you have chosen to turn this topic into a "session" is beyond me.

I need no counseling - so please stop fretting over my life. I truly do have a wonderful one.

[BB5953]

You do have a way with words - especially while trying to put them into someone else's thoughts. No problem here - how about you? You seem very worked up over my sanity and reasoning abilities for some reason.

I saw the light - now get off of that one, please.

I did not say I was annoyed. I don't need your advice, or pity. How sad and unfortunate for you!

Obviously, you read much too much between the lines - go back and reread None of your above remarks even come close to understanding what my post stated.

I am just like most cruisers. The entire cruise is the important thing.

So, please stop trying to act like some sort of psychiatrist, and dissect my thoughts.

I am fine; not stressed, I enjoy my life, and every cruise.

Why you have chosen to turn this topic into a "session" is beyond me.

I need no counseling - so please stop fretting over my life. I truly do have a wonderful one.

 

Sailaways - I can see where you may be a bit confused but I was actually replying back to candeson (I should have quoted it). It looks like you were trying to take my response to him and apply it to you.

 

You don't have to convince me that you're having a great cruise!

[canderson]

I am not making it your problem - that is the irony here... YOU are making it your problem. Don't you see that????

I've been hearing that same bit of psychobabble since the 70's. It lets anyone and everyone off the hook for anything that might in any way offend, since the mantra is "Your response to everything you encounter in life is up to you". By way of crude analogy, if you fart in the elevator, it follows that whether I choose to find that offensive is somehow my problem. I've never subscribed to that theory, no matter how many times it is repeated, as it's logical extensions are so absurd. With this frame of reference, there is truly nothing called "polite society" -- just one that forever looks the other way.

 

Just to spoil the fun a bit: It's not that I often have any problems of this sort on my cruises, nor do I spend much time dwelling on it aboard ship. That isn't even why I've been posting in this thread. It's really because I find those who will do anything to excuse and/or ignore (in other contexts, "tolerance for its own sake") more offensive than what is being excused. Are we clear about that part?

[BB5953]

I've been hearing that same bit of psychobabble since the 70's. It lets anyone and everyone off the hook for anything that might in any way offend, since the mantra is "Your response to everything you encounter in life is up to you". By way of crude analogy, if you fart in the elevator, it follows that whether I choose to find that offensive is somehow my problem. I've never subscribed to that theory, no matter how many times it is repeated, as it's logical extensions are so absurd. With this frame of reference, there is truly nothing called "polite society" -- just one that forever looks the other way.

 

Just to spoil the fun a bit: It's not that I often have any problems of this sort on my cruises, nor do I spend much time dwelling on it aboard ship. That isn't even why I've been posting in this thread. It's really because I find those who will do anything to excuse and/or ignore (in other contexts, "tolerance for its own sake") more offensive than what is being excused. Are we clear about that part?

 

 

okay - we will just have to agree to disagree - that is the beauty of these boards!

[tomvk]

On our last cruise on the Summit there was a guy who came to dinner on formal nights in what I guess was a smoking jacket but it sure looked like bath robe to us.

[msbptg]

I've been hearing that same bit of psychobabble since the 70's. It lets anyone and everyone off the hook for anything that might in any way offend, since the mantra is "Your response to everything you encounter in life is up to you". By way of crude analogy, if you fart in the elevator, it follows that whether I choose to find that offensive is somehow my problem. I've never subscribed to that theory, no matter how many times it is repeated, as it's logical extensions are so absurd. With this frame of reference, there is truly nothing called "polite society" -- just one that forever looks the other way.

 

Just to spoil the fun a bit: It's not that I often have any problems of this sort on my cruises, nor do I spend much time dwelling on it aboard ship. That isn't even why I've been posting in this thread. It's really because I find those who will do anything to excuse and/or ignore (in other contexts, "tolerance for its own sake") more offensive than what is being excused. Are we clear about that part?

While on the Infinity glass elevators, some guy farted while getting out..But the guy was wearing a dark suit, so I said to my wife, he can sit with me anytime..enough said..

[canderson]

While on the Infinity glass elevators, some guy farted while getting out..But the guy was wearing a dark suit, so I said to my wife, he can sit with me anytime..enough said..

I'm not sure if it counts if it's filtered through Armani :D