Ocean Liner vs. Cruise Ship

[envy4u]

Sorry for being ignorant on this one . I was thinking of cruiseng with QM2 but not Transatlantic ? What are the differences between her and a cruise ship ? Does the QM2 roll more or less ? I am sensitive to motion sickness .

[transat_jon]

QM2 is built as an ocean liner and able to travel in relative comfort in 20 to 30 foot high seas. On a coastal cruise you are unlikely to know you are even on a ship. I've done one transatlantic on QM2 and the movement was not an issue at all.

 

There are of course many remedies you can take for the dreaded "mal de mer", including Champagne.

[mufi]

We have just had a group of guys complaining because the captain diverted the ship to avoid the rough sea conditions they had been praying for. Not happy bunnies!! And you actually want calm waters without staggering around the ship hardly able to stand up amid crashing of broken crockery and no access to open decks? Get a grip Sir or Madam.

 

To be serious though, some people can feel sick before the ship leaves port, others are quite happy in the roughest of seas.

 

QM2 is probably the most stable ship afloat, so if you are to try cruising for the first time this would be a good choice.

 

David.

[Emu]

Here's a little more you may be interested in.

 

Ocean Liners also have stronger hulls designed to take heavy seas.

 

The design is also different in that cabins are placed further along from the stern the higher each deck is. (have a look at a photo of the QM2 then a cruise ship) this is also to take into account the possibility of high seas. The closer to the bow or stern your cabin is, the more vertical movement you will feel as the ship pitches in heavy seas.

 

Pitching is vertical movement as the ship hits waves (not possible to control)

 

Rolling is side to side movement......... eg if waves are hitting the ship side on........... this can be controlled with stabilizers (large wings that fold out from the side of the ship below the water line) QM2 has four fitted and they work best at high speed........... it is not unusual to INCREASE speed in heavy weather.

 

If you are prone to motion sickness........ a cabin in the middle of the ship lower down is recommended. If on deck........ focus on the horizon rather than closer towards you as this helps you to process the movement.

 

Finally......... rough seas can occur at anytime, anywhere......... it is better to be prepared for the event rather than place any faith in information like (eg. the Atlantic is calmer during "x" month)

 

Medication is also available on all ships if you do become struck by motion sickness.

 

Good luck with the weather & enjoy your voyage.

[guernseyguy]

What are the differences between her and a cruise ship ? Does the QM2 roll more or less ? I am sensitive to motion sickness .

 

The other posters have already answered the questions about stability - for a given itinerary the QM2 is probably the most stable ship around. As to 'Liner' vs 'Cruise ship' the key is in the name. A 'Liner' makes 'line' voyages from point A to B, to a given timetable. At its simplest a Ferry runs line voyages - for example from Staten Island to Manhattan. A Transtatlantic liner is a fairly specialised craft - like all ferries it has to stick to a timetable, but over potentially very rough seas. Thats why the QM2 only 'needs' to go about 25 knots to cross the Atlantic in 6 days - but in fact is capable of 30 knots - so she can take a longer route to avoid bad weather, or catch up delays, as examples. On a Cruise ship, sailing from A to B to C to D and back to A, if you get behind all you do is drop one of the ports to make up time. If you only have one port - your destination - you can't do that. Most cruise ships cruise at 20-22 knots and max out at around 25 knots. The QE2, so they say, can go backwards faster than most cruise ships can go forwards.....

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

Here's a little more you may be interested in.

 

Very well written, Emu.

I learned something from, it despite many previous discussion on this board!

You have a gift with words.

And I suspect you won't have any problem with mal-de-mer on your East-bound voyage round the Horn! Wish I could join you!

 

Last night, Marc and I were talking about a very inexpensive 7 day cruise on RCCL I had just booked for someone. His comment: 7 days is just too short!

I think the boy is hooked! <G>

Now if I can just rob a bank to afford the South America Journey!

 

Karie

[guernseyguy]

The closer to the bow or stern your cabin is, the more vertical movement you will feel as the ship pitches in heavy seas.

 

Which is why, even today, on the QE2 the best cabins (I'm ignoring the bolt on rabbit hutches) are in the middle, the cheapest by the bow, and intermediate ones towards the stern. First in the middle, Second aft and Third forward goes as far back at least as Mauretania (I). Times may change, but physics doesn't!

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

Which is why, even today, on the QE2 the best cabins (I'm ignoring the bolt on rabbit hutches) are in the middle, the cheapest by the bow, and intermediate ones towards the stern. First in the middle, Second aft and Third forward goes as far back at least as Mauretania (I). Times may change, but physics doesn't!

 

Peter

 

Okay, I confess my ignorance. Could someone please elucidate for me, the "bolt-on rabbit hutches?" Obviously, these were small cabins added during some re-working of the ship, for more capacity, I would assume. Are these singles? I think someone mentioned "P-1's" Can someone enlighten this poor ignorant soul? (Yes, I promise to get out my book and study! Both the brochure and Commodore Warwick's, though I suspect he didn't refer to them as such! <G>)

 

Thanks!

Karie,

having never sailed on the QE2, but I'll get there yet. But I'll have to take at least three weeks to find HALF of the nooks, crannies and important features mentioned on this board by revered past crossers abd cruisers!

[Bramcruiser]

So where would you be planning on sailing if not Transatlantic? Just curious.

[kevankiki]

Very well written, Emu.

 

Now if I can just rob a bank to afford the South America Journey!

 

Karie

Didn't you have a cutlass too? <grin>

 

I'll get me coat :)

[guernseyguy]

the "bolt-on rabbit hutches?" Obviously, these were small cabins added during some re-working of the ship, for more capacity, I would assume. Are these singles?

 

Karie,

 

Quite the reverse - these are the grandest Queens Grill suites on Sun and Signal decks - the only ones with balconies - but being forward and high up, quite unsuitable for a rough transatlantic. I spoke to someone who had been in one once during a stormy crossing and they said all they could do was hang on to the bed! As one of the Scottish Aunts would have said 'Very new money, dear'. Of course, they have their fans, and I'm sure on a calm voyage are perfectly fine.

 

Peter

[mufi]

Maybe we should have another term to cover ships that were designed as liners. There are only two in the world.

 

David.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

> Maybe we should have another term to cover ships that were designed as liners. There are only two in the world.

 

How about Cunarder.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

PS. Will have to find another word if Queen Victoria ever sails.

[Druke I]

Another difference between Liners and Cruise ships is hull shape. Liners generally have a greater length to beam ratio (fineness of hull), and often draw more water (draft). Liners' hull construction is more robust, using heavy gauge steel, with more bracing.

 

Gross generalization of course, but cruiseships draw less water and have flatter bottoms, enabling them to enter more harbors and ports.

 

Stabilizers, which do help reduce roll, are often retracted, as they create drag and adversely affect fuel consumption. They also, in certain sea states, tend to draw a ship down by the bow, not unlike a submarine's diving planes - and that is not a good thing for a surface ship!

[dougnewmanatsea]

ships that were designed as liners. There are only two in the world.

While one could make an argument for saying "there are only two liners in the world", that is only because the two QUEENs are the only two liners in the world that still operate as such.

 

There are certainly other ships designed as liners. Examples would include AUSONIA, MARCO POLO, MAXIM GORKIY, MONA LISA, MONTEREY, OCEANIC, REGAL EMPRESS, SAGA ROSE, SAGA RUBY, and SERENADE... Just to name some of the larger ones. Of course they all operate as cruise ships these days, but they were still designed and built as liners.

[Paul NH]

There are certainly other ships designed as liners. Examples would include AUSONIA, MARCO POLO, MAXIM GORKIY, MONA LISA, MONTEREY, OCEANIC, REGAL EMPRESS, SAGA ROSE, SAGA RUBY, and SERENADE... Just to name some of the larger ones. Of course they all operate as cruise ships these days, but they were still designed and built as liners.

I sailed on the Oceanic in the 1970's and boy could that ship rock and roll in heavy seas. That liner had a great, proper enclosed promenade deck that wrapped around the ship one deck below the boat deck.

 

As mentioned earlier, the QM2 is a very stable liner, but I saw first hand last summer that she too can work up a good pitch and a bit of a roll as well. We were in an Outside (porthole) cabin near the bow and really felt the vertical movement during rougher weather.

 

Only a true ocean liner would allow you to look out the window during heavy seas at a scene like the one below and feel confident!

 

Paul

[PRINSENDAM]

> Maybe we should have another term to cover ships that were designed as liners. There are only two in the world.

 

How about Cunarder.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

.

 

 

 

Stephen,

 

SAGA ROSE and SAGA RUBY (ex SAGAFJORD and VISTAFJORD) are also both very much 'liners' by nature of their original design and construction. Also Pulmatur's OCEANIC was also very much designed and built as a liner.

 

Stephen

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

> SAGA ROSE and SAGA RUBY

 

Definitely. I nearly got to cruise on Caronia. I do regret missing the opportunity. By the time I am old enough for Saga, I doubt they will still be in service. I have a friend who rates Caronia as his second favourite (sailed on) ship. First place goes to Normandie.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

[bobby1119]

QM2 is built as an ocean liner and able to travel in relative comfort in 20 to 30 foot high seas. On a coastal cruise you are unlikely to know you are even on a ship. I've done one transatlantic on QM2 and the movement was not an issue at all.

Jon,

 

Have enjoyed your pictures and especially the wild videos of QE2's bow cutting through heavy seas. I have always wanted to experience that kind of crossing, but all of my QE2 cruises and crossings have been relatively calm. Last April, on Queen Mary 2, we encountered a force 9 nor'easter as we headed from NYC to the Caribbean that lasted almost 2 days. As big as Queen Mary 2 is, she was really rocking and rolling! It was exhilarating to experience her speeding along at a powerful 28 knots while doing battle with the sea swells.

 

Thanks for the videos. See you aboard someday.

[PRINSENDAM]

> SAGA ROSE and SAGA RUBY

 

Definitely. I nearly got to cruise on Caronia. I do regret missing the opportunity. By the time I am old enough for Saga, I doubt they will still be in service. I have a friend who rates Caronia as his second favourite (sailed on) ship. First place goes to Normandie.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

 

Keep your fingers crossed. The RUBY should definitely be around well past 2010!

 

Ruth and I joining RUBY in San Francisco in March for three weeks to via Panama to Bermuda. It will be interesting to see her in her third life..... having sailed in her both as VISTAFJORD and CARONIA.

 

I hope she is even just half as good as the ROSE!

 

Stephen

[patwell]

May she too be around well past 2010. The ships of Norwegian Amerikalinje were my first loves....SS Stavangerfjord will always hold a special place in my heart. She brought my Mother to this country as an immigrant in the 20's...and she took us "home" safely many times through some of the worst the North Atlantic has to offer. I never felt safer. Sadly those of us who remember her with great fondness are also becoming a thing of the past. I have many bits of memorabilia of her including a wonderful very old travel poster which is the centerpiece of my home office.She may be gone...she is not forgotten. I wonder how many of these new mega ships will ever capture someone's heart that way and 43 years after their demise still be loved....

 

On a crossing on the Bergensfjord when I was 19 I was fortunate to be shown the plans for the Sagafjord by one of the officers. Apparently there were some of the builders onboard for that crossing. My recollection was that I was told they were studying the Bergensfjord for the refinements they would make to Sagafjord.At the time I wondered how they could possibly make anything more beautiful than Bergensfjord. She looked so elegant and graceful on the plans and when I saw her completed she was truly beautiful for her times. In this day of over the top cruise ships I have to hope that we will never lose those last true liners to the breakers. A dream I have is to someday return to Norway on a true Norwegian liner like the Saga Rose. While she may no longer be Norwegian, her roots surely are and she carries her ancestry proudly.

 

Sorry to digress so from the original topic. Your comments on the Saga sisters brought back these memories....Cheers, Penny

[mufi]

While one could make an argument for saying "there are only two liners in the world", that is only because the two QUEENs are the only two liners in the world that still operate as such.

 

There are certainly other ships designed as liners. Examples would include AUSONIA, MARCO POLO, MAXIM GORKIY, MONA LISA, MONTEREY, OCEANIC, REGAL EMPRESS, SAGA ROSE, SAGA RUBY, and SERENADE... Just to name some of the larger ones. Of course they all operate as cruise ships these days, but they were still designed and built as liners.

 

Writen by John Maxtone Graham -

Queen Mary 2

by John Maxtone-Graham

 

 

Chapter 1

 

Liners used to make line voyages—hence the name—from Old World to New in all seasons. They sailed year-round, through fair weather and foul, the very antithesis of today's shipboard-for-fun. Rather than pleasurable cruises, these were purposeful crossings. Whereas cruise ships dawdle around exotic itineraries, ocean liners persevere at speed, thundering across the world's most formidable oceans on bruising schedules.

 

The only other ocean liner extant is Queen Elizabeth 2, launched in 1967 and previously considered "the last Atlantic liner." Now Cunard has turned back the clock, rewriting history to duplicate and amplify those demanding criteria for QM2. Her dimensions and achievements should not be construed as hype, but mere hyperbole.

 

No legitimate ocean liner had been built since 1969.

 

David.

[dougnewmanatsea]

May she too be around well past 2010.

Sadly, this seems very unlikely because of SOLAS rules.

 

In 2010 I will still be a couple of decades short of 50 so for me there is no hope of sailing in her!

 

RUBY will hopefully go on much longer but she would still have to pass age 50 herself for me to sail in her... So sadly for me there is not much hope for sailing in either one.

 

Of all the passenger ships in which I would like to sail (that I haven't sailed in yet), SAGA ROSE ranks Number One on my list. And completely unattainable :( !

 

If you are old enough to have been shown plans of a not-yet-built SAGAFJORD at age 19 you are old enough to sail in her now - do it before it's too late!

 

Writen by John Maxtone Graham

Are you trying to get me to start an argument with John ;) ?

 

But in all seriousness, the only thing there that I have any objection to is the statement that "no legitimate ocean liner had been built since 1969" since personally I do consider VISTAFJORD to have been a legitimate ocean liner. She was designed as one, even though never used as such.

 

I do not object to the statement that "the only other ocean liner extant is Queen Elizabeth 2" inasmuch as it seems obvious that he means that she is the only other one still being used for that purpose. For the purposes of that statement, ships used as cruise ships (like SAGA RUBY) or hotel/museum ships (QUEEN MARY), or whatever else, are considered to no longer be ocean liners.

 

On the other hand you said that "there are only two [ships that were designed as liners] in the world" and this is not true as there are a lot of other ships out there that were designed as liners - they're just not being used as liners now. I don't think anyone would dispute that ALEXANDR PUSHKIN (MARCO POLO) or KUNGSHOLM (MONA LISA) or SAGAFJORD (SAGA ROSE) and so on, were not designed and built as liners.

 

Hope that straightens that out.

[patwell]

Unfortunately you are so right...I am definitely old enough to sail on the Saga Rose. It's about that pesky air travel to get to her. Ahhh, but there's always the possibility of a crossing to England on QM2...then Saga Rose to Norway...then a crossing back!! The stuff dreams are made of!

 

As I know only the basics of SOLAS, I had hoped that whatever refurbishments have been done to her would have been enough to save her. Apparently not the case. I'm sorry you'll never get to sail her...she like her earlier sisterships Stavangerfjord, Bergensfjord & Oslofjord, has beauty and grace. I never knew Vistafjord/Saga Ruby as I knew the others but I'll hope she waits around for you to enjoy her. We Norwegians are hardy stock!

 

Meanwhile I am eagerly awaiting my Dec cruise on the QM2 and hope to enjoy once again being on a liner and not a floating theme park. Thank you for the SOLAS feedback. Penny

[Kindlychap]

Karie,

 

Quite the reverse - these are the grandest Queens Grill suites on Sun and Signal decks - the only ones with balconies - but being forward and high up, quite unsuitable for a rough transatlantic. I spoke to someone who had been in one once during a stormy crossing and they said all they could do was hang on to the bed! As one of the Scottish Aunts would have said 'Very new money, dear'. Of course, they have their fans, and I'm sure on a calm voyage are perfectly fine.

 

Peter

 

Having been in the Queen Elizabeth Suite for the April 2004 crossing from Southampton to New York, and having two days of storms reaching force 10 (with waves coming over the bridge on occasions) and again in the North Sea with a Force 8/9 touching 10 I think Peter is being a trifle hard on them.

 

Certainly in the old days of docking in the Hudson, the Queen Elizabeth suite is the best place on the ship to watch the world go by as you sail up the Hudson! No fighting for a place, good views and you can pop in to warm yourself up if need be!