Refund - ABTA - The Swiss case

[SSCAF001]

Seeing the latest development with NCL yesterday and having paid in full for 3 cruises with SS, I am getting nervous about how to get back my money. Even if my future cruises are all beyond the 120 day mark (September 10, 2020, December 4, 2020 and May 25, 2021) having paid them in full to benefit with the early booking bonus, I cannot ask for a refund now without a 10% fee. So I am about to wait SS to cancel them one after another. I have to specify that the 3 of them have been booked and paid for directly with SS in the UK. I have talked to my SS cruise consultant who was very straightforward regarding the situation and the fact that the September cruise has almost no chance of operating. When mentioning the fact that I was nervous with my money in case SS get out of business, he told me that I should be OK because my bookings are covered with ABTA. I have been on the internet and found out that ABTA is covering bookings made within the European Economic Area. I live in Switzerland and Switzerland is not part of the EEA. Do you know whether Switzerland residents are covered with ABTA? If yes, what kind of protection is given?

Moreover, the 3 downpayment have been done through a VISA Premier credit card. Do you know whether I have the possibility to get back my money through VISA in the case I got nothing from SS at the end of the process? What is the time frame to submit the case to VISA and how can I do it?

I am not so sure that there are many Swiss residents on this forum but I am struggling to get the answers to these questions. Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[alexandria]

Both VISA and MasterCard have a little known policy that allows for a longer period of time for disputing charges related to services that aren't performed at the time of purchase but expected to be performed on or before a future date.

(MasterCard Chargeback Guide, beginning at page 49:  https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/mccom/en-us/documents/rules/chargeback-guide.pdf)

(Visa Chargeback Guide, beginning at page 687:  https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/visa-rules-public.pdf)

 

Essentially, those policies provide that a dispute timeline can be based on one of two start dates. Either the dispute must be processed within 120 calendar days of the transaction processing date or within 120 calendar days of the last date the customer expected to receive the goods or services (but not to exceed 540 days of the original transaction processing date). 

 

You can look at the language specific to Europe on page 688, "For a Dispute related to non-receipt of travel services from a provider who has failed, if the services are covered by a bonding authority/insurance scheme, the Issuer must attempt to obtain reimbursement from the relevant bonding authority/insurance scheme., unless the bond or insurance scheme is insufficient. If the bond or insurance scheme is insufficient, the Issuer may use information in the public domain to initiate the Dispute."

[sail1658]

Here in the UK Silversea Standard Terms and Conditions allow you to cancel more than 120 days before sailing and receive a full refund except for an administrative fee of £130 per booking which can be converted to a Future Cruise Credit. I'm not sure if it's different in Switzerland.

 

So as I understand it you could cancel all three cruises now without losing anything. 

 

CRUISE CANCELLATIONS

If you find it necessary to cancel your reservation or any component thereof, you or your travel agent are required to contact the Silversea Reservations Department by telephone as well as submit your cancellation in writing. If your cancellation request is received more than 120 days prior to your initial sailing date, a £130 non-refundable administrative fee will be charged per booking. This administrative fee may be converted to a future cruise credit valid for travel within 12 months from the date of the cancelled voyage. Cruise cancellation requests received within 120 days of the initial sailing date will be subject to the following charges, regardless of suite resale:

120 – 91 days prior to the initial sailing date: 15% of the total cruise fare per person;

90 – 61 days prior to the initial sailing date: 50% of the total cruise fare per person;

60 – 31 days prior to the initial sailing date: 75% of the total cruise fare per person;

30 – 0 days prior to the initial sailing date or nonappearance at the time of sailing: 100% of the total cruise fare per person.

Guests who downgrade suite categories within 120 days of the initial sailing date will incur cancellation fees on the difference in cruise fare between the two suites.

[SSCAF001]

25 minutes ago, sail1658 said:

Here in the UK Silversea Standard Terms and Conditions allow you to cancel more than 120 days before sailing and receive a full refund except for an administrative fee of £130 per booking which can be converted to a Future Cruise Credit. I'm not sure if it's different in Switzerland.

 

So as I understand it you could cancel all three cruises now without losing anything. 

 

CRUISE CANCELLATIONS

If you find it necessary to cancel your reservation or any component thereof, you or your travel agent are required to contact the Silversea Reservations Department by telephone as well as submit your cancellation in writing. If your cancellation request is received more than 120 days prior to your initial sailing date, a £130 non-refundable administrative fee will be charged per booking. This administrative fee may be converted to a future cruise credit valid for travel within 12 months from the date of the cancelled voyage. Cruise cancellation requests received within 120 days of the initial sailing date will be subject to the following charges, regardless of suite resale:

120 – 91 days prior to the initial sailing date: 15% of the total cruise fare per person;

90 – 61 days prior to the initial sailing date: 50% of the total cruise fare per person;

60 – 31 days prior to the initial sailing date: 75% of the total cruise fare per person;

30 – 0 days prior to the initial sailing date or nonappearance at the time of sailing: 100% of the total cruise fare per person.

Guests who downgrade suite categories within 120 days of the initial sailing date will incur cancellation fees on the difference in cruise fare between the two suites.

Thanks. It seems the situation is different for me even if it has been sold by Silversea UK in London

 

So even now, I could not cancel without losing 10% of the full fare!

[SSCAF001]

1 hour ago, alexandria said:

Both VISA and MasterCard have a little known policy that allows for a longer period of time for disputing charges related to services that aren't performed at the time of purchase but expected to be performed on or before a future date.

(MasterCard Chargeback Guide, beginning at page 49:  https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/mccom/en-us/documents/rules/chargeback-guide.pdf)

(Visa Chargeback Guide, beginning at page 687:  https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/visa-rules-public.pdf)

 

Essentially, those policies provide that a dispute timeline can be based on one of two start dates. Either the dispute must be processed within 120 calendar days of the transaction processing date or within 120 calendar days of the last date the customer expected to receive the goods or services (but not to exceed 540 days of the original transaction processing date). 

 

You can look at the language specific to Europe on page 688, "For a Dispute related to non-receipt of travel services from a provider who has failed, if the services are covered by a bonding authority/insurance scheme, the Issuer must attempt to obtain reimbursement from the relevant bonding authority/insurance scheme., unless the bond or insurance scheme is insufficient. If the bond or insurance scheme is insufficient, the Issuer may use information in the public domain to initiate the Dispute."

Thank you. I will have a look at your attached link regarding VISA.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Hi SSCAF00,

 

With respect you have an enormous sum of cash at risk and I urge you to take some prudent steps rather than seek reassurances on a forum.

 

With all due respect, I'm unclear as to what help the Visa global standards document offers you with respect to your protection in your own country with your own card.  It seems to me to only to state the minimum timeline for making a claim which may turn out to be better on your own card.  It offers no reassurance with respect to actual purchase protection which will vary from country to country depending on the offers and underlying consumer legislation. In the EU purchaser protection on credit and some charge cars are enshrined in law so all cards offer protection. The global standards therefore simply seems to offer you a theoretical minimum timeline - that may not be as good as the one you actually have - to open a dispute with what may turn out to be the receivers of a bankrupt company - if ABTA that is, doesn't underpin your guarantee.  So I'm unclear as to what reassurance that offers.

 

As you know, your terms and conditions with SS were those that were in force when you made your booking unless the latest terms were retrospective. So that is something you need to check.

 

I suggest you do three things:

 

1. Have you separate travel insurance that covers you? If it is simply for example a UBS add-on I do not think it covers you for purchaser protection of failure of the company but you need to check. So do you have separate insurance that specifically protects you?

 

2. Read your booking confirmations to see whether it specifically states that YOUR booking IS subject to the ABTA protection. If it is unclear then understand that Silversea are doing all they can to avoid customers cancelling cruises. It seems that they have not stated that you are CERTAINLY covered by the ABTA guarantee, but that you "should be OK" and it is questionable that you may or may not be unless Silversea have paid an extra ABTA premium to cover non EU bookings made through the London office. I believe it is an option that Silversea can make if it is paid for. So your first task is to ask is to check the documentation you have AND ask your contact in Silversea to confirm in writing where it states that your booking is subject to ABTA protection. I hate to state to obvious but simply stating that you are covered without firm ABTA supporting documentation is no good to you if your fears materialise and SS proves wrong but not in existence to be answerable for the incorrect information.

 

3. Check whether your visa card offers "purchaser protection" in the case where the travel company goes bankrupt.

 

So for what it's worth, you must not be reassured by any general advice you read on a forum but you need to make water-tight sure you are fully protected rather than possibly or should be or maybe.

 

Good luck and to report back what you find out.

 

Jeff

 

[SSCAF001]

1 hour ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

Hi SSCAF00,

 

With respect you have an enormous sum of cash at risk and I urge you to take some prudent steps rather than seek reassurances on a forum.

 

With all due respect, I'm unclear as to what help the Visa global standards document offers you with respect to your protection in your own country with your own card.  It seems to me to only to state the minimum timeline for making a claim which may turn out to be better on your own card.  It offers no reassurance with respect to actual purchase protection which will vary from country to country depending on the offers and underlying consumer legislation. In the EU purchaser protection on credit and some charge cars are enshrined in law so all cards offer protection. The global standards therefore simply seems to offer you a theoretical minimum timeline - that may not be as good as the one you actually have - to open a dispute with what may turn out to be the receivers of a bankrupt company - if ABTA that is, doesn't underpin your guarantee.  So I'm unclear as to what reassurance that offers.

 

As you know, your terms and conditions with SS were those that were in force when you made your booking unless the latest terms were retrospective. So that is something you need to check.

 

I suggest you do three things:

 

1. Have you separate travel insurance that covers you? If it is simply for example a UBS add-on I do not think it covers you for purchaser protection of failure of the company but you need to check. So do you have separate insurance that specifically protects you?

 

2. Read your booking confirmations to see whether it specifically states that YOUR booking IS subject to the ABTA protection. If it is unclear then understand that Silversea are doing all they can to avoid customers cancelling cruises. It seems that they have not stated that you are CERTAINLY covered by the ABTA guarantee, but that you "should be OK" and it is questionable that you may or may not be unless Silversea have paid an extra ABTA premium to cover non EU bookings made through the London office. I believe it is an option that Silversea can make if it is paid for. So your first task is to ask is to check the documentation you have AND ask your contact in Silversea to confirm in writing where it states that your booking is subject to ABTA protection. I hate to state to obvious but simply stating that you are covered without firm ABTA supporting documentation is no good to you if your fears materialise and SS proves wrong but not in existence to be answerable for the incorrect information.

 

3. Check whether your visa card offers "purchaser protection" in the case where the travel company goes bankrupt.

 

So for what it's worth, you must not be reassured by any general advice you read on a forum but you need to make water-tight sure you are fully protected rather than possibly or should be or maybe.

 

Good luck and to report back what you find out.

 

Jeff

 

Many thanks Jeff. I will try to follow your recommendations and let you know.

[Observer]

12 hours ago, SSCAF001 said:

Seeing the latest development with NCL yesterday....

 

I was not aware of any NCL "development" other than their seeking additional funding and stating in the prospectus all possible adverse conditions surrounding the company.  As far as I know, this was standard boilerplate in such offerings and not a distress call.  At the same time, I gather that NCL's financial situation is less favorable than that of Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

[CBWIR]

1 hour ago, Observer said:

 

I was not aware of any NCL "development" other than their seeking additional funding and stating in the prospectus all possible adverse conditions surrounding the company.  As far as I know, this was standard boilerplate in such offerings and not a distress call.  At the same time, I gather that NCL's financial situation is less favorable than that of Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

Not any more.

[Hermione60]

I live in Switzerland too, and have a December 2020 Sydney-Auckland cruise booked (with flights and a pre-cruise hotel in Sydney for 3 nights). I think with all that's being said about Australia and New Zealand not accepting intercontinental travelers before 2021 at least, I will not be able to cruise alas... Like the OP, I made the booking through the Silversea UK office, and have not yet asked my SS cruise consultant what is going to happen. I'll be very interested about this ABTA thing, if you get any answers.

[UKCruiseJeff]

32 minutes ago, Hermione60 said:

I live in Switzerland too, and have a December 2020 Sydney-Auckland cruise booked (with flights and a pre-cruise hotel in Sydney for 3 nights). I think with all that's being said about Australia and New Zealand not accepting intercontinental travelers before 2021 at least, I will not be able to cruise alas... Like the OP, I made the booking through the Silversea UK office, and have not yet asked my SS cruise consultant what is going to happen. I'll be very interested about this ABTA thing, if you get any answers.

 

Hi,

 

Waiting for the reply of another customer might not be relevant to you as it rashly implies consistency.  This is potentially a minefield of “grey areas”.

 

You might be covered.  For a stronger reassurance and implication of ABTA coverage for your booking an agent would have  possibly needed to have manually picked up that you were non-EU AND made an additional ABTA premium.

 

At the moment a lot of rules and regulations are being treated “pragmatically`”, loopholes being sought and my fear is that an excuse that might be made is that yours is not an EU booking and the only thing you can do is seek PROOF from SS that your specific bookings are covered.

 

Good luck

 

Jeff 🙂

[SSCAF001]

39 minutes ago, Hermione60 said:

I live in Switzerland too, and have a December 2020 Sydney-Auckland cruise booked (with flights and a pre-cruise hotel in Sydney for 3 nights). I think with all that's being said about Australia and New Zealand not accepting intercontinental travelers before 2021 at least, I will not be able to cruise alas... Like the OP, I made the booking through the Silversea UK office, and have not yet asked my SS cruise consultant what is going to happen. I'll be very interested about this ABTA thing, if you get any answers.

 

Dear Hermione60

Nice to see see that there are other members residing in Switzerland. I have tried to send you a private message but it seems that this functionality is disabled. Pity. Anyway, if you have the opportunity to contact your SS CC in London (Maybe we share the same!!), try to get as much reliable information as possible regarding how people in our case are financially covered. I was on the Muse last November between Bali and Sydney and it was a wonderful experience. I really hope you will be able to have your cruise next December, but my best guess is that there should be no cruise for the coming 18 months or so. I hope I am wrong.

[Hermione60]

Yes, I need to talk to my SS cruise consultant. I was kind of waiting to see how it is going with this COVID thing - actually, travel within Europe seems to be resuming much earlier than I thought!