What's wrong with a two-class ship?

[colleency]

In a couple of different threads, people have discussed the Grills on the QM2 and were either complaining that it was a two-class ship or defending the QM2 as only having different restaurants and not being a two class ship.

 

I haven't been on a cruise or crossing yet myself, so I don't understand the problem. Why wouldn't there be a two (or more) class ship? There's already a class system in that some people can afford to go on a cruise and others can't. Some people can afford to go on a Carnival fun ship, and some people can travel Cunard. Airlines have two or three classes.

 

I know that the grills have amenities that I won't be able to enjoy, but it doesn't bother me any more than not driving a Rolls Royce does.

 

Have I misunderstood the posts? Perhaps people are simply stating a fact, and I am reading emotion into it?

[LuAnn]

First of all...if you are going to Hawaii on the QM2...you are so lucky! We went on the Fall Colors in September and it was wonderful!...I don't think, if you are not in the "Grill" class, that you will miss much...but having been with the "plebs" in the Britannia I'm not sure! I agree, there are "levels, ranks, etc" in all aspects of life...the only time I saw anyone who I thought was in the "1st class" section was when we "all" had to line up for immigration! And, perhaps, the only way I knew them were 1...I had never seen them before, and 2...they had on VERY expensive clothes, jewels etc.! SO..my suggestion is...go and enjoy this beautiful ship and surroundings! And let us know how you like it! LuAnn

[flandre58]

I haven't been on a cruise or crossing yet myself, so I don't understand the problem. Why wouldn't there be a two (or more) class ship? There's already a class system in that some people can afford to go on a cruise and others can't. Some people can afford to go on a Carnival fun ship, and some people can travel Cunard. Airlines have two or three classes.

 

 

I suppose it's a matter of personal perspective. With airlines, you don't have run of the aircraft, and in the old days of two and three class vessels, it was the same. You paid for First Class, or Cabin or Tourist, and you used only those public spaces (unless, of course, you gate-crashed, which plenty of people did). So from this angle, the Queens would be one-class. Except for the dining facilities and one other public room (Grill Lounge), everyone is sharing the same space. As someone who made transatlantic voyages in the class days, I feel today's Queens offer a (relatively) classless experience. Others seem to feel that the separate dining rooms give the Queens a class veneer, which is certainly true when you're dining. But compared to the days when your "class" was spelled out on your ticket, today's voyages are basically class-free.

[colleency]

SO..my suggestion is...go and enjoy this beautiful ship and surroundings! And let us know how you like it! LuAnn

 

Oh, don't mistake that I fully intend to have a wonderful time! I was more curious about the history of people's opinions about class, I guess.

[gardenbunny]

Having sailed QE2 in Caronia class on a TA in May 2003, I happen to like the different classes on the QE2 - I wish the QM2 had 1 more separation vs. jumping from mass dining in Britania to the Grills - I will take my 2nd trip on QM2 Feb. 22 so don't misunderstand, I love QM2 - I just don't think the price point to jump up to Grills is worth what little you get - since you are correct, everyone enjoys all the public rooms - it is just dining that is different. I think the Grill dining rooms are a little too intimate - I think the size of the Caronia on QE2 was just right - and I liked that you could go at anytime. Although I think the Britania on QM2 is very nice, too considering its large size.

[coy860]

I have sailed on many different ships, and will sail the QM2 in Jan. 2007.

The only one with the "class" system is Cunard. It is a system that is passe and archaic.

There are suites and villa suites on many other ships, and the people get special boarding privileges, a few other perks, but do NOT feel that they HAVE to dine in their own dining room.

I have spoken to many others who will NOT book Cunard because of this "class" system.

[guernseyguy]

The only one with the "class" system is Cunard. It is a system that is passe and archaic. I have spoken to many others who will NOT book Cunard because of this "class" system.

 

But not on airlines? BA Transatlantic effectively has FOUR classes - yet people don't expect 'run of the plane'. Most American carriers have at least two.

 

Frankly, I suspect a lot of the antagonism to 'class' has to do with denial about class systems in all societies, and if I might suggest, possibly a little more than others in America. The barriers to Third Class Passengers on the Titanic were not put there by White Star....they were there at the insistance of US Immigration......

 

Peter

[coy860]

People are on a plane for a few hours, and then arrive at their destination.

A cruise ship is a meld of people, who come and go to various places aboard for a minimum of 7 days, many times much longer. Do people in the Queen's grill actually rub elbows with Brittania people, say, in the casino?

Since Americans love to cruise, and have so very many lines to choose from, I can't recall any complaints about RCCL, HAL, Princess, Celebrity, etc. NOT segregating passengers. They are having a banner year with bookings.

[guernseyguy]

Since Americans love to cruise, and have so very many lines to choose from, I can't recall any complaints about RCCL, HAL, Princess, Celebrity, etc. NOT segregating passengers. They are having a banner year with bookings.

 

Being popular still does not make McDonalds haute cusine!:) I'm sure you'll enjoy RCCL, HAL.......but then again, don't they have lounges reserved for the use of frequent cruisers - no, surely not, after all, America is classless....'all men created equal' and all that......

 

Peter

 

Denial isn't a river in Egypt......

[Steamboatin]

If you stop and think of it for a moment all cruise vessels of all the cruise lines have a minimum of 3 classes on them.

 

They are:

1. Passengers

2. Ship Officers

3. Ship Crew

 

Just some have more classes of people aboard.

[Job 534 Clydebank]

Good point, "Steamboatin".

(ever remembering the long gone "unspoken" open acces to the PIG 'N WHISTLE !!!)

[Kindlychap]

As far as QE2 is concerned, save for those who take tea in the Queens Grill Lounge (a mistake in my view - it is over-run) there is no apparent distinction in the ship - save in terms of restaurants. When of course everyone is eating somewhere.....

 

You can't tell who is on the signal deck, or deck 5, by looking. Unless you overhear someone spending money, you won't know where they are on the ship.

 

I suppose this isn't quite true at tender ports, and on embarkation/disembarkaton, but it is everywhere else.

[stowaway2k]

 

You can't tell who is on the signal deck, or deck 5, by looking. Unless you overhear someone spending money, you won't know where they are on the ship.

 

quote]

 

True. And why in the world would it matter to anyone?

Some of the finest people I've met on QE2 are deck 5 people.

[guernseyguy]

True. And why in the world would it matter to anyone? Some of the finest people I've met on QE2 are deck 5 people.

 

On the original Queen Mary, the crew reckoned the 'better sort' of person travelled Second Class at Tourist/Third Class prices.......

 

Peter

[stowaway2k]

On the original Queen Mary, the crew reckoned the 'better sort' of person travelled Second Class at Tourist/Third Class prices.......

 

Peter

 

It is also known that on the Queen Mary the Second Class Lounge was the prefered lounge for some First Class passengers. Something about a less stuffy atmosphere...

 

Although, if I were a Second Class passenger, I'd want to say 'Hey! Lord Puffnstuff, you're crowding us down here!'

[guernseyguy]

I'd want to say 'Hey! Lord Puffnstuff, you're crowding us down here!'

 

Actually, Lord Puffnstuff would probably have been with you in Second Class....its more likely Byron De Witt Bukater III who would have been subtracting from the room's atmosphere!;)

 

Peter

[Ldybrnwyn]

 

Frankly, I suspect a lot of the antagonism to 'class' has to do with denial about class systems in all societies, and if I might suggest, possibly a little more than others in America. The barriers to Third Class Passengers on the Titanic were not put there by White Star....they were there at the insistance of US Immigration......

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

::nose haughtily in air:: I object to you casting aspersions on Americans' sense of equality and insinuating that we're hypocritical about it.

 

The "haves" and "have nots" resent each other with equal fervor in my country too! What's more, we're proud of it! :p

 

Only here it's not referred to as "class".....it's referred to as "lifestyle" ;)

 

Tracy

[pisces1]

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I was in grill class one way and Britannia on return. I did not treat anyone differently and I don't believe I was treated any differently. Eastbound, I was with my husband and he prefers a more spacious accommodation since we spend quite a bit of time in our cabin during a transatlantic crossing. We love the privacy of the balcony and the generous accommodations. The intimate dining is a plus, and frankly with that price tag why not??? Westbound, I cruised with my mother and the experience was just as good. Why would you even care about the Grill class passengers vs. Britannia passengers? As it has been said before, you basically have the same access to the ship and yes, I met many a fellow shipmates (in the casino, Golden Lion Club, Winter Garden etc.) and we didn't discuss our "class". Afterall, we were in the same place....

[travel-to-go]

Peter,

 

::nose haughtily in air:: I object to you casting aspersions on Americans' sense of equality and insinuating that we're hypocritical about it.

 

The "haves" and "have nots" resent each other with equal fervor in my country too! What's more, we're proud of it! :p

 

Only here it's not referred to as "class".....it's referred to as "lifestyle" ;)

 

Tracy

 

And we have our Escalade SUVs with 8 mpg to prove it!

And my kid is enrolled in the best pre-school, And we don't even HAVE a kid yet! Oh, and did I mention we've applied for early admission to Yale for him? When he's 10?

 

Or as the say in Faifield County Connecticut, NOKD!

(Not our Kind, Dear!)

 

Karie, who is DEFINITELY not from Fairfield County and drives a Honda.

[DreemCruiser]

Hi everyone -

 

Just have to pass on the news that the forthcoming Queen Victoria has TWO ENTIRE DECKS that are ONLY for Princess/Queens Grill pax.

 

The top two decks of the ship.

 

What do we think about this?

 

John

(personally, dismayed)

[guernseyguy]

Queen Victoria has TWO ENTIRE DECKS that are ONLY for Princess/Queens Grill pax.

 

The top two decks of the ship.

 

What do we think about this?

 

John

(personally, dismayed)

 

John,

 

I think its called 'you pays your money & takes your choice'. If people want to pay more to get more, I say 'why not?' Its all to do with Capitalism or something....they tried something else, but it didn't seem to work out.......

 

Peter

(Personally, consumed with indifference)

[phileas]

Just have to pass on the news that the forthcoming Queen Victoria has TWO ENTIRE DECKS that are ONLY for Princess/Queens Grill pax.

 

The top two decks of the ship.

 

What do we think about this?

 

I haven't had time to look at the plans yet, but if it is true that only Grill passengers are allowed on the top two decks, so be it!

 

They will almost certainly be paying a minimum of twice the price of a the other passengers. If you wish to join them, just pay the extra!

 

Of course, if Cunard find that they cannot fill the ship with passengers on a regular basis, then no doubt the rules would change. So all those potential passengers who do not like the idea of a very much two class ship (at passenger level) then vote with your wallets and do not use the QV.

 

Phileas

Who is trying to to earn enough crusts for the next cruise and probably cannot afford the Grills!

[Ldybrnwyn]

And we have our Escalade SUVs with 8 mpg to prove it!

And my kid is enrolled in the best pre-school, And we don't even HAVE a kid yet! Oh, and did I mention we've applied for early admission to Yale for him? When he's 10?

 

Or as the say in Faifield County Connecticut, NOKD!

(Not our Kind, Dear!)

 

Karie, who is DEFINITELY not from Fairfield County and drives a Honda.

 

Whenever I've gone the route of paying more money for the "higher class" version of something I've usually gotten something extra, but not enough to warrant shelling out that much more $.

 

I use to work the Renaissance Faire in Southern California and it was my experience that the peasants had SOOOOO much more fun than the nobles and it cost us a lot less in costuming. We had a wider repetoire of bawdy songs, we got to get dirty, our costumes were more comfortable, we got to speak to anyone we wanted. On the outside it *seemed* like the nobles had it better, but that wasn't usually the case. Besides, there were so many hidden constraints for the people who played the nobles that us street players never had to deal with.

 

Of course, I'm certain you couldn't ever expand my "having more fun as a peasant" experience to the real history of Renaissance period England. But it did teach me the value of taking the more relaxed route in what I do.

 

Tracy - who drives a Ford Focus

[DreemCruiser]

stellrchef - RIGHT ON! Great observation and comparison. I believe its much more fun to be a bawdy peasant too! :D FAR fewer restraints and pretensions :rolleyes:

 

Anyone who's been around for a while knows that "people are people" no matter what socio-economic class or country in the world!!! That's why those 1st-class pax of yesterday would spend time in the 2nd-class Smoking Rooms. It was more relaxing, and they were truly "in-the-know."

 

My dismay about the QV arrangement is that I imagine I would like to get a VIEW from those off-limits top decks. I love crows nest type areas! And I don't care for a bunch of people who think they're "swells" looking DOWN on me (literally). That really grates on my American ego :o So that's what it comes down to for me personally.

 

And this whole idea doesn't seem a move forward in cultural history. At a time in the world when I'm thinking about all the disparity in the world, why take yet ANOTHER step BACKWARD??

 

What about that aspect??

 

John

(a modernist, feeling very anti-Victorian)

[guernseyguy]

My dismay about the QV arrangement is that I imagine I would like to get a VIEW from those off-limits top decks. I love crows nest type areas! And I don't care for a bunch of people who think they're "swells" looking DOWN on me (literally). That really grates on my American ego :o So that's what it comes down to for me personally.

 

And this whole idea doesn't seem a move forward in cultural history. At a time in the world when I'm thinking about all the disparity in the world, why take yet ANOTHER step BACKWARD??

 

What about that aspect??

 

John

(a modernist, feeling very anti-Victorian)

 

John,

 

What about the people who turn left on boarding the plane, rather than right? Would you abolish class distinction on aircraft too? And why would you assume that the people (literally) looking down on you are doing so figuratively too? As Eleanor Roosevelt observed 'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent'. If you wish to enjoy your 'bawdy peasant' pleasures, why would you wish to deny them theirs?

 

Peter

A member of the Vieux Pauvre......