Art Auction dilema!!

[BlueHerons]

You are wrong here - the burden of proof is on the plaintiff - here the art company.

 

And there isn't a precedent issue, this is too rare a situation for that.

 

.

 

But there is a precendent. A court just ordered Austria to return $300 dollars worth of art to a family in California who are Holocaust survivers.

 

The burden of proof would be on the auction house. My apologies.

[crusinpsychRN]

Did you ever have it appraised?

[scperk]

For anyone who has not been to the art aution should go just to get free champaigne..My wife and I went and she bought a massage in the spa and they gave her 10 coupons in the drawings. I won 3 prints the first day, they keep putting the coupons back in the drawing and by cruise end we had won 9 prints and bought 2. Every day that you went they gave you more coupons in the drawings...............Dennis

[GinaDucey]

Our last trip I purchased two pieces of art and so far I have been very happy with what I bought. I would love to know more about the outcome of this situation! My opinion is the same as everyone's - they auctioned it and you bought it fair and square. You own it - they let you walk off the ship with it - it is yours. It would serve them right to loose this work of art. I have read a lot of negative stuff after I had purchased my two and I feel that I am lucky to have had a good experience. I have also had experience with Park West on land at a few auctions and they did not seem any different to me than on land - but I felt major pressure to get the appraisals and to buy an Agam I was in love with for $2K.

 

Bottom line - good for you - do not let them have that painting and please, please update us.

[BlueHerons]

But there is a precedent. A court just ordered Austria to return $300 dollars worth of art to a family in California who are Holocaust survivors.

 

The burden of proof would be on the auction house. My apologies.

 

I'm an idiot. The Supreme Court of the United States just ordered the country of Austria to return 300 million dollars worth of art to the descendants of holocaust victims.

 

Geez. Not $300.

[cheshyrkat]

I'm an idiot. The Supreme Court of the United States just ordered the country of Austria to return 300 million dollars worth of art to the descendants of holocaust victims.

 

Geez. Not $300.

 

Well that definitely adds a level of importance to the story! LOL

[virginiab]

Lithographs in classic fine art are made by drawing on a slab of stone with a greasy crayon-type tool. The stone is then dampened and inked. The oily ink sticks to the greasy parts and not to the wet parts. Paper is laid over the stone and pressed into the ink by either hand or mechanical rollers or rubbing tools, and a print is pulled from the stone. The stone may be re-inked quite a few times before the drawing degrades too much to get a good print. Hence the early prints are generally more valuable than the later prints.

 

The whole theory of lithography is that oil and water don't mix.

 

The "oil and water don't mix" thing is also how offset printing works, except an aluminum plate is used instead of a big slab of stone. The aluminum plate is then mounted on a power-operated press, so it's easy and cheap to make lots of copies. Most prints that are popularly sold as lithographs are made with the simpler and cheaper offset printing processes, rather than hand-pulled off of a stone.

 

On any kind of print that requires hand placement of the paper on a stone or of a silk screen over a partially completed print, there may be pencil "registration marks" that help the artist get each color aligned properly. These MAY be the pencil marks that are visible on the picture purchased at the auction.

 

You may want to take the picture to the art department at your local colege, community college, or even to the high school art teacher and get some help on identifying the media and methods used in creating your picture. It will probably be an interesting question for them, and the odds are that they will be happy to give you an informal opinion.

 

Virginia

(former print-making student in art school)

[colette5479]

What a facinating story!! Keep us posted!!

[lunagirl]

Okay, my dad is a cruise ship art auction junky. Here are the tidbits of info that I can provide: Yes, original works are available on cruise ships, and yes, they are often already framed. BUT they do tend to cost a GREAT deal more than what you paid. So, if you got an original of any size for $150, you got an amazing deal. We have found that it is actually cheaper to have it framed on the ship and then ship it home than to have it framed locally. It sounds like they simply messed up. Since you know the title of the painting in your possession, you can attempt to have it authenticated on your own. You purchased the painting, and it is yours. Park West does A LOT of cruise ship sales. They may not like it, but life will definitely go on for them after this mistake. However, if they are being difficult about getting the correct Certificate of Authenticity to you, you can pursue it through a local gallery. If you can find out information about the artist, that may also open up some avenues. Good luck!

[arlanamay]

Well Park West called me today to tell me that they would be picking up the painting. Of course I told them no. The lady said that on line 19 of the invoice I received states "Any mistakes made in invoicing will be corrected upon discovery, and buyer shall be obligated and agrees to immediately remit and additional amount due."

 

I take that to mean that if I were to have bought the piece for $150 and they made a mistake at check out and charged me $125 for a different piece than when it was discovered I would be charged $25 more and have the correct piece. I guess it is a broad statement. Anyway I argued with her and told her that they would need to go through legal channels if they want it back. I don't think I'm going to hire a lawyer because I really don't have the support from my husband to fight this. So I'll go that far and I will contact Carnival through e-mail too, what the heck. I at least want to make it difficult for them.

[Gypsywych]

Well Park West called me today to tell me that they would be picking up the painting. Of course I told them no. The lady said that on line 19 of the invoice I received states "Any mistakes made in invoicing will be corrected upon discovery, and buyer shall be obligated and agrees to immediately remit and additional amount due."

 

I take that to mean that if I were to have bought the piece for $150 and they made a mistake at check out and charged me $125 for a different piece than when it was discovered I would be charged $25 more and have the correct piece. I guess it is a broad statement. Anyway I argued with her and told her that they would need to go through legal channels if they want it back. I don't think I'm going to hire a lawyer because I really don't have the support from my husband to fight this. So I'll go that far and I will contact Carnival through e-mail too, what the heck. I at least want to make it difficult for them.

 

Well certainly the mistake needs to be corrected. However, the mistake is in the COA, not in the painting itself. No need to pick it up. ;) Tell them you're happy they are correcting their error and sending the correct authentication.

[Eliot Ness]

Well Park West called me today to tell me that they would be picking up the painting. Of course I told them no. The lady said that on line 19 of the invoice I received states "Any mistakes made in invoicing will be corrected upon discovery, and buyer shall be obligated and agrees to immediately remit and additional amount due."

I'm sorry, but I'm getting confused about what is going on. Have they said you have the wrong piece of art, or that they sold you an original by mistake?

Anyway I argued with her and told her that they would need to go through legal channels if they want it back.

And what was her response to that?

 

I hope everything works out for you with this piece of art. It sure would be nice to know what you really have and what it is worth.

 

John

[arlanamay]

I'm sorry, but I'm getting confused about what is going on. Have they said you have the wrong piece of art, or that they sold you an original by mistake? And what was her response to that?

 

I hope everything works out for you with this piece of art. It sure would be nice to know what you really have and what it is worth.

 

John

 

Okay, She said that the auctioneer made a mistake and shouldn't have put that piece up for auction at that price of $150. The inventory sheet says I have something else than what I bid on, won and took off the ship. They would either need to pick it up or I would need to send $5000. When she told me about line 19 on the back of the inventory slip I asked her hypethetically that if I were to have bid on a piece for $400 and then had it appraised and it was worth $5 would they reimburse me $355. She dodged the question by saying that the painting isn't worth $400. Either she missed the point entirely or like I said she dodged it with an irrelevent answer. I thought it was irrelevent anyway. Sorry if I'm misspelling everthing. It was never a talent of mine.

[starketcher]

The mistake here is NOT in the invoicing. You bid and won. The mistake (other than the auctioneer's) is with the COA they sent to you!

[Eliot Ness]

Okay, She said that the auctioneer made a mistake and shouldn't have put that piece up for auction at that price of $150.......

That is admitting that they made the mistake and you in fact got the art that you were bidding on. It would be different if you were bidding on a print and they sent you the original by mistake. I'm not a legal expert but I think you own that painting fair and square.

 

I don't think they will legally pursue the matter, but you never can tell. I'd think the bad press would outweigh the small monetary loss they'll take by letting you keep what (to me) seems to be rightfully yours. It might not hurt to mention that their actions are being discussed on the Cruise Critic message board and that you're thinking about contacting your local news station about what they're doing. I also think it is wise to let Carnival know that P.W. is trying to renege on a piece of art they sold to you. Maybe there is a lawyer here on C.C. that is willing to help you out?

 

John

[arlanamay]

I did e-mail carnival. I also googled "auction disputes" and finally found one that wasn't online related and e-mailed them to see if they think I have a leg to stand on. So will see. I have a friend of a friend who is a patent lawyer but my husband doesn't think I should bother her with this.

[Eliot Ness]

.......I have a friend of a friend who is a patent lawyer but my husband doesn't think I should bother her with this.

Of course you should! Think what a conversation piece that painting will become after all of this is settled (hopefully in your favor)!

 

I hope that someone higher in the food chain at Park West will eventually get wind of this and say, "hey guys, we made a mistake, stop harassing this poor woman and let her keep the painting, and by-the-way, send her the correct COA."

 

John

[JimHam4]

I am guessing that something like this will end up in a local court, not one under Maritime jurisdiction. Lawsuits I've seen in California are usually filed based on either the location the contract was entered into or the location of the defendant's home or business. In other words if you lived in California and signed the contract to buy the painting in Las Vegas, Park West would file the claim against you in a court either in Nevada or California. If the value of the claim is $5k or less, in California you would end up in Small Claims court; NO ATTORNEYS ALLOWED. This is good and bad, I have seen many people with good cases lose because they didn't know what they were doing and didn't come prepared. Make sure you are writing EVERYTHING down. Dates, times, what was said and who said it. Even write down th things you thought about, it is easy to forget these things if you have to step in front of a judge.

 

Good luck, personally I think you own the painting. If Park West continues to be A$$es about it go to an art dealer to have the picture certified, maybe even the local college art expert. You should do this anyway so you have some idea what you are fighting for at court.

[D4]

So it sounds like the piece you paid $150 for is actually worth $5,150? Cool!!!

 

Just a tip: I wouldn't say on this board how far you're willing (or not willing) to take this because they might be reading this.

 

If it were me, I'd talk to the lawyer friend. Maybe a letter from an attorney will shut them up.

[cruiser3006]

Sounds like the classic bait and switch deal to me. I suggest that you contact your state attorney generals fraud division and let them deal with it for you.

[cusyl]

Well Park West called me today to tell me that they would be picking up the painting.

 

Someone made a mistake, but it WAS NOT YOU! You bid on a piece of art and won, they priced it, displayed it and wrapped it.

They can not now demand it back. As you stated, the contract refers to invoicing only.

[hawaiideb]

You might even mention to them at some point that you have posted this on these boards and over 3900 people (as of my writing of this reply) have reviewed your situation and over 100 have taken the time to comment. They've already gotten a lot of "press" over this and it wouldn't take much to turn it into good "press" for Park West Galleries.

 

They should do what's right and let you have what you bid on with the appropriate COA.

 

HawaiiDeb

[MEOWSMURPHY]

How were YOU supposed to know that the piece you were bidding on in good faith and won and paid for was a MISTAKE by the auctioneer??? You bid, you won, you paid and received the piece you bid on...seems to me it's pretty cut and dry..it's your piece...as for line #19..I agree with you...it sounds to me that what that is stating is...you bid say $200 on a piece..you paid $150 due to an invoicing error...you didn't say anything at the time...they then caught the error that you only paid $150 but bid $200...you OWE the difference... To me..they didn't make an INVOICING error...they made a mistake in starting the bidding too low...again...NOT YOUR FAULT....keep the painting...don't give it back to them. You have what you paid for......makes me want to shy away from the auctions for sure....

[arlanamay]

You might even mention to them at some point that you have posted this on these boards and over 3900 people (as of my writing of this reply) have reviewed your situation and over 100 have taken the time to comment. They've already gotten a lot of "press" over this and it wouldn't take much to turn it into good "press" for Park West Galleries.

 

They should do what's right and let you have what you bid on with the appropriate COA.

 

HawaiiDeb

 

I was thinking the same thing. If I do speak with them again I will be sure to mention it to them. 3,900+ cruisers that will read this thread and might avoid the art auctions and possibly tell others about what happened. Bad P.R. I will bad mouth them that's for sure to others and when I cruise, but not if they leave me alone. I won't make an A$$ out of myself to other cruisers though.

[TrinaLC]

Thank you for that advice. I have a friend who is a patent lawyer so I might ask her what kind of lawyer I need if it comes to that. I wish I new an artist but I don't. I'm just afraid that if I give them the painting on good faith they will send me back something else and then I will be the one who has to go after them.

 

DO NOT GIVE THEM THE PAINTING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE! Possesion and all that ....