Unpopular Opinion: I'm excited about the changes to Plus and Premier

[Rufford155]

I haven't read what the changes are (please reply) but they won't affect us because we never book packages. I have 2 drinks a day at best and DW doesn't drink at all, not even coffee, and has a special diet (dairy free), so there's no value in the packages at all.

We are platinum (elite after next cruise) and are already brassed-off by now having to pay half-price for wifi, still a rip-off, and was previously free.

Even the elite perks are nothing much to shout about any more.

As long as we can eat in the buffet or MDR, whichever we choose, that's fine with us.

But if they start charging for food that was included or for free activities we could be put off.

[cruising.mark.uk]

47 minutes ago, Jim_Roberts said:

I did.  That's why I booked.  As it happens, I'm not a great fan on pizza and hot dogs and I'm unlikely to want to use room service.  However, I've paid for both and their withdrawal comes under "unreasonable contract terms" legislation.  Princess have committed a criminal offence in the UK and quite possibly a federal offence in the USA and will face prosecution.  As I said, I don't do business with crooks.

So your invoice specifically says that you've paid for pizza and room service, does it?

[dickinson]

38 minutes ago, Rufford155 said:

I haven't read what the changes are (please reply) but they won't affect us because we never book packages. I have 2 drinks a day at best and DW doesn't drink at all, not even coffee, and has a special diet (dairy free), so there's no value in the packages at all.

We are platinum (elite after next cruise) and are already brassed-off by now having to pay half-price for wifi, still a rip-off, and was previously free.

Even the elite perks are nothing much to shout about any more.

As long as we can eat in the buffet or MDR, whichever we choose, that's fine with us.

But if they start charging for food that was included or for free activities we could be put off.

You should read more because the changes COULD affect you.  Casual eating places (Alfredos/Gigi's for example will no longer be free.  IC still is).  Room service is $5 each time.  To set up your medallion (or whatever) so you can have something delivered wherever you are on ship now will cost $14.99 to activate.  As I said before, please read the changes so you won't be surprised.  It still may not affect you.  Only eating at Alfredo's will affect us. Don't like that but not a big deal to me. 

[kywildcatfanone]

51 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

So your invoice specifically says that you've paid for pizza and room service, does it?

I think he's trying to say he booked and paid when those items were included in the passage he purchased, and now Princess has removed those benefits from his voyage.

[New2cruise2022]

3 hours ago, Jim_Roberts said:

I did.  That's why I booked.  As it happens, I'm not a great fan on pizza and hot dogs and I'm unlikely to want to use room service.  However, I've paid for both and their withdrawal comes under "unreasonable contract terms" legislation.  Princess have committed a criminal offence in the UK and quite possibly a federal offence in the USA and will face prosecution.  As I said, I don't do business with crooks.

I’m a contract attorney — you have no sea leg to stand on with your assertion.  

[New2cruise2022]

1 hour ago, kywildcatfanone said:

I think he's trying to say he booked and paid when those items were included in the passage he purchased, and now Princess has removed those benefits from his voyage.

Important to remember that they were not removed — they are price adjusted. And even that doesn’t matter. That is not a guarantee under the terms and conditions. 

[kywildcatfanone]

20 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Important to remember that they were not removed — they are price adjusted. And even that doesn’t matter. That is not a guarantee under the terms and conditions. 

Yeah, I know it states pricing and benefit changes are at the whim of Princess.  I was just responding to the person mocking him.

 

Princess is allowed to move the goalposts after getting your money, but it's still poor customer service.

Edited August 5, 2023 by kywildcatfanone

[New2cruise2022]

1 minute ago, kywildcatfanone said:

Yeah, I know it states pricing and benefit changes are at the whim of Princess.  I was just responding to the person mocking him.

 

Princess is allowed to move the goalposts after getting your money, but it's still poor customer service.

It’s difficult customer service. And communicating is extremely difficult with changes. Often, the size and manner of that communication can affect the perception of the size of change. On one hand, communicating with everyone about everything seems to be best practice. But it’s hard for a company to want to buy the biggest billboard with neon lights that says “Look over here! We just raised our prices! Have a good day!” 
 

Princess didn’t announce they were taking everything away without announcing what more they are including. And Princess didn’t take pizza away. They took a type of pizza away. There are still burgers and pizza available on their ships that are included in the standard fare. 
 

Provisioning for cruise ships is a monumental task. Staffing for cruise ships is a huge operation that takes months of training and substantial effort to keep the staff when they have experience. While the customer service isn’t ideal for the customer, the effort is there. 

[New2cruise2022]

2 hours ago, kywildcatfanone said:

I think he's trying to say he booked and paid when those items were included in the passage he purchased, and now Princess has removed those benefits from his voyage.

BTW — I grew up in northern Kentucky. I bleed blue. 

[Mittens101]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, wcflats said:

Princess in my opinion is trying to move us long time loyal princess cruisers to another cruise line.  

Yes that are and in household that’s just where we are going….another line

[lizjoemom]

Agree. This will be our first time on Princess and we plan on upgrading to premier. DH will need to have internet access for work on multiple devices, so we had already planned on purchasing the wifi. I feel that there is value in the upgrade if just for the wifi and gratuities (including bar gratuities). In January on Carnival Celebration, my sister in law and I paid about 550 dollars each for the drink package alone. Yes, there were alternatives to the dining room that were free of charge, however, we still had to tip. There were other casual alternatives like the backyard bbq and emerils that were an upcharge and of course the fine dining is additional ($45pp I think). All in we probably spent close to the same amount as DH and I are spending on this, longer cruise on Emerald to PC, (I do realize it is a smaller ship with less options) but still works out to about the same price. We looked at other cruise lines for this trip, we have been looking a loooong time, and have found that even with the premier upgrade cost, for us, it is more affordable and the ports are ones that we are looking forward to seeing for the first time. Either way, cruising is and always has been an affordable option for us, especially when traveling with our kids when they were young.

[cruising.mark.uk]

49 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

Yeah, I know it states pricing and benefit changes are at the whim of Princess.  I was just responding to the person mocking him.

 

 

I wasn't mocking him.  I was asking him why he thought he had paid for pizzas and room service.   It seems to me from reading cruise line T&Cs (not just PCL) that what someone is actually paying for when they buy a cruise is: a cabin (which the line can change) on a ship (which the line can change) on an itinerary (which the line can change) on which they will provide food, some free and some at additional charge (and the line can change those charges and the food offers that attract a charge), drink, some free and some at additional charge (which the line can change) and entertainment, facilities and amenities at a cost or at no cost (all of which the line can change).  

 

Major changes (e.g. to itinerary) may allow cancellation after final payment and some might even be compensated.  Others won't.  

 

I sense that what some think they are paying for when they buy a cruise and what they are actually buying are sometimes two different things.  But that is a cruise-line thing, not a PCL thing (see, e.g. threads on NCL advertising ports they don't go to, Celebrity doing away with butlers in some suites etc etc etc).  New2Cruise might be able to add usefully to this given they are a contract lawyer!

[blizzard44ca]

We’re cruising on the Crown on the first leg of the new structure.  We were planning to upgrade to plus on board anyway.  There’s no Alfredo’s on the Crown, and now we’ll get 2 free meals at Salty Dog.  Sounds like added value to me.

 

(at least on this cruise - we have plus 50 booked on the Discovery next year. Likely won’t upgrade)

[kywildcatfanone]

58 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

It’s difficult customer service. And communicating is extremely difficult with changes. Often, the size and manner of that communication can affect the perception of the size of change. On one hand, communicating with everyone about everything seems to be best practice. But it’s hard for a company to want to buy the biggest billboard with neon lights that says “Look over here! We just raised our prices! Have a good day!” 
 

Princess didn’t announce they were taking everything away without announcing what more they are including. And Princess didn’t take pizza away. They took a type of pizza away. There are still burgers and pizza available on their ships that are included in the standard fare. 
 

Provisioning for cruise ships is a monumental task. Staffing for cruise ships is a huge operation that takes months of training and substantial effort to keep the staff when they have experience. While the customer service isn’t ideal for the customer, the effort is there. 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but it does seem at least by the reaction on cruise critic, they have handled this transition poorly. 

As I recall when they instituted tip increases they did something like "after X date, tips will increase" which gave the customer an option.  This seems more like "we are changing the Plus packages and increasing the cost, so if you want the changes, you have to pay an upgrade fee". Seems they could have handled it better by reading all the complaints.

 

In either regard, it doesn't impact us because we don't purchase packages anymore.

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

11 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

In either regard, it doesn't impact us because we don't purchase packages anymore.

Will having to pay for Ocean Now, room service & casual dining not affect you?

 

genuine question. Maybe you use none of those things. It’s just that I believed that those booking standard fares are the most affected

[kywildcatfanone]

9 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

Will having to pay for Ocean Now, room service & casual dining not affect you?

 

genuine question. Maybe you use none of those things. It’s just that I believed that those booking standard fares are the most affected

No, not us. Standard fare are most affected if they use those services for sure.  

 

Never ordered room service, never use the app except to locate shipmates, which if they charge for that will not use, and we do casual dining where it's included in the fare.  If it's not included in the fare price, we will not use it.  Plenty of options still (IC, buffet, burgers, pizza).  I'm fine with the pizza on the pizza deck, do not need Alfredo's.  I'm fine with the burger bar, and don't need to go to the Salty Dog. Never seen a need to pay for something when similar is available for free.

 

I'm beginning to think we are the exception than the rule, which is fine, that is how Princess wants it.  I bring on my own drinks (non alcoholic), but will still have to pay for coffee if we want a latte, so they are still making money off me.  I can't avoid them completely from having their hand in my pocket 🙂

[drwbrt]

2 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

No, not us. Standard fare are most affected if they use those services for sure.  

 

Never ordered room service, never use the app except to locate shipmates, which if they charge for that will not use, and we do casual dining where it's included in the fare.  If it's not included in the fare price, we will not use it.  Plenty of options still (IC, buffet, burgers, pizza).  I'm fine with the pizza on the pizza deck, do not need Alfredo's.  I'm fine with the burger bar, and don't need to go to the Salty Dog. Never seen a need to pay for something when similar is available for free.

 

I'm beginning to think we are the exception than the rule, which is fine, that is how Princess wants it.  I bring on my own drinks (non alcoholic), but will still have to pay for coffee if we want a latte, so they are still making money off me.  I can't avoid them completely from having their hand in my pocket 🙂

With this attitude and discipline I still think Princess offers you something very competitive.  Only Carnival comes close from my mock-sailing figures.  It's less than $100 for 2 pax on a 7-day though.  At that point it's really a preference question.  I love that you find value in this type of vacation, I think Princess does too.  You're an easy passenger to please and you still earn a little extra in latte money.

[Jim_Roberts]

2 hours ago, New2cruise2022 said:

I’m a contract attorney — you have no sea leg to stand on with your assertion.  

And I'm a retired lecturer in English Law and boy are they in trouble.

[kywildcatfanone]

5 minutes ago, drwbrt said:

You're an easy passenger to please and you still earn a little extra in latte money.

Yeah, I mean, it's not like they aren't making money on it.  I pay tips, and give extra for good service.  I buy the wifi (which is outrageous by the way), but it's even higher on Celebrity, the other line we have cruised and will again.

 

For me, I'm wired to think about the cost onboard compared to my cost at home.  I realize I'm a captive audience, just like an an airport or other places,  but I know I can buy that can of soda for $.50 at the grocery store, and paying them $4 for it, instead of just bringing it wit me just makes me feel like I wasted $3.50.  

It's why we rarely go to restaurants and dine in unless we are traveling.  I can save a lot of money just by doing takeout and not buying an iced tea for $4.  Same as not going to ball games and buying drinks and food there.  It's just the way my mind works. Can I afford it, yes, but I also think that if I save that money, I then still have it to spend on something else.  

I realize that way of thinking goes against how most view it, but it works for me and I'm lucky my wife sees it the same way.

[cruising.mark.uk]

12 minutes ago, Jim_Roberts said:

And I'm a retired lecturer in English Law and boy are they in trouble.

Perhaps you could explain why in words that a non-lawyer can understand?

[getaway101]

1 hour ago, Mittens101 said:

Yes that are and in household that’s just where we are going….another line

I think you are in for a rude awakening.  Princess is still by far the cheapest with much better itineraries IMO.  NCL is $20 pp per day for tips in a balcony cabin.  Royal did away with free room service (except continental breakfast) ages ago.  I could go on and on....but have a great cruise on whatever line you choose.  Bon Voyage 

[bigbenboys]

On 8/3/2023 at 9:49 AM, Sunwanabe said:

I am not impressed with PC with their latest change. Does give pause that what you might book and pay for is not necessarily the final product when it's time to cruise. Is it enough to take note and entertain the switch to other cruise lines?  Yes!

Well, I did something I have not done in 12 years. I talked to our TA about booking Princess. I'm Booking a Penthouse 3 with Premier package is $7200. Canceling Celebrity Suite $12,400. Both are 7 nights. I know there have been changes over at Princess. I'm sure a lot has changed in 12 years.

With over 30 cruises with Celebrity from Balcony to Celebrity Suite. We mostly book sky suites. The butler change for us is not a big deal. But, many other changes by Celebrity has made us look elsewhere.

 

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

42 minutes ago, Jim_Roberts said:

And I'm a retired lecturer in English Law and boy are they in trouble.

Reading the contract (UK) it does say they can vary provision for operational & commercial reasons. But I wonder if the main complaint should be lack of communication about the change & a lack of notice. my understanding of contracts is rudimentary however, with basic training around them in relation to consumer and debt issues.

 

even IF they have committed a contract violation, it still requires a person with enough knowledge & commitment to take them to task over this and get a good result from it.
And if they haven’t, well I’m of the opinion that just because they CAN do something doesn’t mean they SHOULD. It’s all been very poorly handled, no communication, no notice & will mean my holiday already paid for in full will cost more than when I booked. Ive put in a complaint to Princess & await a response.

[kywildcatfanone]

12 minutes ago, bigbenboys said:

With over 30 cruises with Celebrity from Balcony to Celebrity Suite. We mostly book sky suites. The butler change for us is not a big deal. But, many other changes by Celebrity has made us look elsewhere.

I mentioned this earlier, but we went on our first Celebrity cruise last year when ships were still sailing at 50% or so capacity.  We had their AI package because overall it was reasonably inexpensive at the time.

We are booked on the Equinox because we did one FCC last year and wanted to try a newer ship than the Infinity.  The price of the AI was double what I was paying for the room.  I was somewhat shocked.  

We are just doing standard fare this time, and bringing our own soda and water on as needed.  Their cost for decent wifi is also astronomical, although in both areas Princess is trying to catch up.  

[Jim_Roberts]

46 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Perhaps you could explain why in words that a non-lawyer can understand?

In English Law, it's important to distinguish between what's a civil matter and what's a criminal matter.  Princess have changed the terms of the contract with a large number of their customers without consultation or offer of compensation.  Now, let's suppose I choose to eat in Alfredo's every day - as was included in the fare I paid.  I could go to my credit card company and ask for a refund of the charge.  If they refused, I could claim it back through the County Court.  In their defence, Princess could claim that the original contract allowed them to change it unilaterally but that defence would be rejected under the "Unfair Contract Terms" legislation.  That is civil law - and what's confusing our contract attorney.   Now, the regulator CLIA UK, will need to look into the fact that thousands of people have had their contracts altered unilaterally with Princess gaining and the customers losing.  This is a scam and a criminal offence.  Either CLIA UK or the Crown Prosecution Service could start criminal proceedings against Princess and if they are found guilty, the fine could be many millions of pounds and possibly they would be banned from offering cruises starting from, or calling in, the UK.