Hot tub hours

[HHBicycleguy]

On Viking Mars cruise in search of midnight Sun - hot tub closed at 8pm despite 3 more hours of daylight due to alleged maintenance- all deck hand did was put the rope across handrails- ridiculous. Left several groups of people in bathing suits standing around. No hours posted. What an inflexible cruise line!!

[deec]

that does seem silly....many years ago we swam in the aft pool late one night enjoying the stars!  People must have abused that option :(!   Maybe speak to the general manager about extending hours!   Depending on itinerary one of our favorite places for leaving port.

[KBs mum]

Aquavit terrace wasn't open at all on Northern Lights itinerary in February, all the tables and chairs were missing, even in good weather and calm seas. 

Would have liked the option to sit out there with hot drinks, as a more social option than the room balcony.

 

Sometimes it seems a bit random, as though how passengers may wish to use spaces hadn't been considered

 

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, HHBicycleguy said:

On Viking Mars cruise in search of midnight Sun - hot tub closed at 8pm despite 3 more hours of daylight due to alleged maintenance- all deck hand did was put the rope across handrails- ridiculous. Left several groups of people in bathing suits standing around. No hours posted. What an inflexible cruise line!!

 

Since this is clearly an issue, surely you inquired at the Purser's Desk the following day, as to why the hot-tubs closed at 20:00. It would be helpful to also include the response you received.  

[HHBicycleguy]

Talked to Hotel Manager -“That is when we clean the pool and hot tubs, sorry” End of discussion. Quite curt.

[uktog]

12 hours ago, KBs mum said:

Aquavit terrace wasn't open at all on Northern Lights itinerary in February, all the tables and chairs were missing, even in good weather and calm seas. 

Would have liked the option to sit out there with hot drinks, as a more social option than the room balcony.

 

Sometimes it seems a bit random, as though how passengers may wish to use spaces hadn't been considered

 

The chairs are not put out there on that whole itinerary all season  for safety reasons, this was discussed with staff onboard. The reason was the weather conditions can change very often and so quickly it would be challenging to monitor that as well as everything else and to bring them in/put them back out would use up a lot of time. 
Not random at all, perfectly sensible to me. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by uktog

[KBs mum]

4 hours ago, uktog said:

The chairs are not put out there on that whole itinerary all season  for safety reasons, this was discussed with staff onboard. The reason was the weather conditions can change very often and so quickly it would be challenging to monitor that as well as everything else and to bring them in/put them back out would use up a lot of time. 
Not random at all, perfectly sensible to me. 

On other itineraries with similar expected sea conditions we've seen  the furniture put out and taken in a few times. 

The storm we encountered in February and was severe, but only lasted 4 days out of a 15 day cruise, the rest of the time the sea was calm. The terrace was still listed as an amenity but was not available. Closing it for those few days would have matched what we have observed on prior Viking cruises. 

 

Oddly, similar tables and chairs in the smoking area and explorer suite balconies were left out regardless. 

 

Hence why I said it seems a bit random, I asked crew (while actually on the ship) how risk levels are calculated for passenger 

deck acces, out of interest, there didn't seem to be a set procedure. 

 

Access to the hot tub was likewise cut off, with no guide as to when/if it would be useable. It may have been, but there seemed to be no set plan. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by KBs mum

[uktog]

The set procedure as I understand it is no furniture on the Aquavit terrace for all Northern Lights sailings which is fair enough. Crew won’t know they just do as they are told without question you need to speak to people like the Chief Safety Officer or equivalent stripes in the Marine side to get an insight 

[KBs mum]

The furniture aspect of it doesn't clear up the hot tub access question, I mentioned it only as being an access/use situation in the same area, observed over several cruises, that might be of interest or relevence. 

The OP mentioned fleet policy, not itinerary specific policy, we asked onboard about fleet policy in February. There isn't a fleetwide all itinerary set policy,  according to the Captain, who happened to be propping up the bar with us at the time (he was drinking coffee, not beer!) 

No less safe because of that, but makes it difficult to know in advance what the situation will be on any given itinerary/ship

[KBs mum]

We did notice the inside hot tub seemed to be 'bubbling' more often than usual during the day, but events made it less accessible in the evenings. The inside pool was only closed during the few storm days we were at sea. 

No clue about the spa, sorry, we never visit it, but we didn't hear anything about parts of it being closed 

Edited August 13, 2023 by KBs mum

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, KBs mum said:

On other itineraries with similar expected sea conditions we've seen  the furniture put out and taken in a few times. 

The storm we encountered in February and was severe, but only lasted 4 days out of a 15 day cruise, the rest of the time the sea was calm. The terrace was still listed as an amenity but was not available. Closing it for those few days would have matched what we have observed on prior Viking cruises. 

 

Oddly, similar tables and chairs in the smoking area and explorer suite balconies were left out regardless. 

 

Hence why I said it seems a bit random, I asked crew (while actually on the ship) how risk levels are calculated for passenger 

deck acces, out of interest, there didn't seem to be a set procedure. 

 

Access to the hot tub was likewise cut off, with no guide as to when/if it would be useable. It may have been, but there seemed to be no set plan. 

 

I'll suggest this is the classic example of a shipping company actually living up to the tag line of "Safety is our 1st priority". In our experience, Viking does operate with safety being the 1st priority, most other cruise lines, not so much.

 

When conducting a risk assessment, they will have addressed the potential for injury by furniture being unsecured when the vessel encounters a quick storm. More importantly, they will have considered the safety risks to the crew that have to stow and secure the furniture in the event of a quick storm. Therefore, to mitigate risk, the best option is to keep the deck furniture secured through northern latitude sailings.

 

Outer deck access risk levels are determined by the Master in accordance with the guidelines published in the ship's ISM Policy & Procedures Manuals. Every procedure these days has guidelines the Master must follow, unless s/he is taking action for the safety of the ship or to prevent pollution.  

[KBs mum]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I'll suggest this is the classic example of a shipping company actually living up to the tag line of "Safety is our 1st priority". In our experience, Viking does operate with safety being the 1st priority, most other cruise lines, not so much.

 

When conducting a risk assessment, they will have addressed the potential for injury by furniture being unsecured when the vessel encounters a quick storm. More importantly, they will have considered the safety risks to the crew that have to stow and secure the furniture in the event of a quick storm. Therefore, to mitigate risk, the best option is to keep the deck furniture secured through northern latitude sailings.

 

Outer deck access risk levels are determined by the Master in accordance with the guidelines published in the ship's ISM Policy & Procedures Manuals. Every procedure these days has guidelines the Master must follow, unless s/he is taking action for the safety of the ship or to prevent pollution.  

I don't have a problem with areas being closed for safety reasons, my point was that there is no reasonable way for pax to know in advance when it may be expected to happen. Hence it can seem random. 

 

After CalMac and North Sea ferries with furniture bolted to the deck, and being on Viking for a rough Tasman crossing, it didn't occur to us that the terrace would be closed all the time even when sea calm and no wind. 

 

As I said, haven't got a problem with it, but advance notice in the itinerary info and signage on board would have avoided the minor confusion and saved the crew from lots of people asking about access (from what we happened to overhear it was an even more popular question than the whereabouts of the toilets😏) 

 

I used to work for an organisation where bad weather had major safety implications, every site in the country worked to a set procedure, with local risk assessments. There was a greatly simplified version for public info.

I was surprised there wasn't something similar fleet wide, that pax could be told, such as outdoor areas closed if wave height or wind speed forecasted to be above x. 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by KBs mum

[Heidi13]

10 hours ago, KBs mum said:

 

I was surprised there wasn't something similar fleet wide, that pax could be told, such as outdoor areas closed if wave height or wind speed forecasted to be above x. 

 

 

Unfortunately, on ships it isn't that black & white. Both wave height and wind speed have a number of variables.

 

With respect to wave height, the direction in relation to ship's course, wave period and whether single or confused seas affect ship movement as much as height. You also need to consider that if the vessel is steaming towards shallower water, the height can increase quickly.

 

True wind speed is only a contributing factor, as the key factor is relative wind over the deck. A ship steaming at 20 kts in a 20 kt wind can have anything from flat calm over the deck to 40 kts. A ship steaming at 20 kts into a 20 kt head wind has 40 kts over the deck, whereas the same ship with a 20 kt following wind has flat calm over the deck.

 

The ISM Policy & Procedure Manual could state some standard and that could be posted, but when it comes to safety and pollution prevention, the Master has overriding authority and responsibility to make decision, as per ISM Code 5.2. Therefore, the Policy & Procedures manual provide guidelines for the Master, which also include looking ahead for weather changes, depth water changes, sea state changes and the route.

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Unfortunately, on ships it isn't that black & white. Both wave height and wind speed have a number of variables.

 

With respect to wave height, the direction in relation to ship's course, wave period and whether single or confused seas affect ship movement as much as height. You also need to consider that if the vessel is steaming towards shallower water, the height can increase quickly.

 

True wind speed is only a contributing factor, as the key factor is relative wind over the deck. A ship steaming at 20 kts in a 20 kt wind can have anything from flat calm over the deck to 40 kts. A ship steaming at 20 kts into a 20 kt head wind has 40 kts over the deck, whereas the same ship with a 20 kt following wind has flat calm over the deck.

 

The ISM Policy & Procedure Manual could state some standard and that could be posted, but when it comes to safety and pollution prevention, the Master has overriding authority and responsibility to make decision, as per ISM Code 5.2. Therefore, the Policy & Procedures manual provide guidelines for the Master, which also include looking ahead for weather changes, depth water changes, sea state changes and the route.

Yes, I understand that the risk assessment formula/procedure (for want of a better way of putting it) will be very complex and beyond most of the passengers, the hugely simplified version I mentioned, if possible, would merely be a rough guide for pax information, and to aid hotel staff to give a quick sensible answer that would be be the same no matter which of them were asked. 

 

We found such a system useful as a means of managing customer expectations, being on the website, and giving staff something to answer inquiries with that wasn't actually wrong, even if very vague. The script was usually something like 'we will probably have to close if wind speed is x, or gusting above y.'

Actual decision was made by trained staff following the written procedure, which included a lengthy perusal of the met office forecast, and records for the preceeding month. Experience and local knowledge came into play. Not easy to explain quickly, particularly as previous weather was a factor

 

[KBs mum]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

 

My intention with this is to discuss, not argue. I accept your expertise regarding matters nautical, mine is  land based, and could be likened to some aspects of a permanently moored cruise ship. I greatly appreciate comments from experts in their field when there is some (albeit small in this case) overlap with mine, and learning from any discussion