Israel Next week Voyager

[carMOM]

We are in the same situation. We booked this itinerary specifically for the Jerusalem and Egypt overlands.

[cwn]

There are some unspoken rules about cruise vacations.

 

Don’t plan to arrive on the day the ship sails, you risk missing the ship due to airline problems.

 

Don’t take a cruise where a port/s are the only reason for the cruise. You risk all kinds of reasons that may make the ship miss the Port and especially a cruise to an unstable area.

 

Sounds like it was an interesting land program though. Hope the missed ports are replaced with other places of interest….there are many in the Med.

[labonnevie]

18 minutes ago, cwn said:

There are some unspoken rules about cruise vacations.

Don’t take a cruise where a port/s are the only reason for the cruise. You risk all kinds of reasons that may make the ship miss the Port and especially a cruise to an unstable area.

 

We have taken over 20 cruises, so we understand missed ports all too well. However, it is hard to say that we would have signed up for this cruise if it did not include Israel and Egypt. We have been to Istanbul, Ephesus and Rhodes. There are already 7 sea days of 21 and we have been to most of the Med ports. The ports are not the only reason for the cruise, of course, but if we just wanted to cruise we wouldn't have to travel to the middle east to do so. We generally pick our cruises based on where we want to go. We love Regent (although the Navigator not so much - yes, we know many love her). Hopefully we can still get to Petra, Luxor, etc. This is our fourth attempt at this cruise and we are just frustrated. And yes, we are very mindful these are all first world problems and that Israel is fighting for its very survival and their people have lost so much. 

[Texasrocks]

1 hour ago, cwn said:

There are some unspoken rules about cruise vacations.

 

Don’t plan to arrive on the day the ship sails, you risk missing the ship due to airline problems.

 

Don’t take a cruise where a port/s are the only reason for the cruise. You risk all kinds of reasons that may make the ship miss the Port and especially a cruise to an unstable area.

 

Sounds like it was an interesting land program though. Hope the missed ports are replaced with other places of interest….there are many in the Med.

Agree on the arrival but regent gave us no choice we were supposed to arrive 3 days early for the pre-cruise.  But lack of communication on regents part put us in this situation.   Up until a week ago these ports were fairly stable and safe. Riots or peaceful protests as some would refer to them as can break out anywhere.

[CrushIt]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:22 PM, Goingplaces12 said:

This is posted on US Department of State website under heading of "Learn About Your Destination dated 11 October 2023:

 

"Location: U.S. Consulate General Istanbul event:  There is a demonstration scheduled at the U.S. consulate tomorrow, Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:00 a.m.  While we do not anticipate any threat of violence from the protest, the Turkish National Police will be limiting vehicle traffic on the street  The Consular section will still be open for scheduled services, but vehicle traffic will be restricted. "

Hoping Regent is aware. 

Regent may be aware. However, they have to give a damn for it to be of any use.

[CrushIt]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:04 PM, Susan64 said:

Regent had the chance to do the right thing as other cruise lines did. FCC/ Refund 

Sometimes the right thing is not easy or cheap, but you see a company’s true colors 

If forcing a bunch of people who don’t want  sail, is their idea of a good decision, then I would never want to be with them in case of an emergency.  You see where there priorities are.

 

Regent had a chance to show its humanity, to people who are afraid, and chose a full ship instead 

It’s now Thursday and we had to cancel early this morning with little chance of any money back, credit, or re-booking. We have lost all confidence in Regent. A long three way conversation with Regent Air and then with our TA’s main booking contact made it very clear that the bean counters are running the show at RSS. No regard whatsoever for the needs of the customer. The Regent agent even threatened to charge us an additional $2k+ for their trouble if we were no-shows for the cruise. So, now we have been forced to block our credit cards that are on file with them. Now, we learn that at least one other major cruise line has cancelled ports of call in Egypt. Five sea days out of ten. Not my idea of a productive cruise.

[Golf Mad Girl]

9 hours ago, mrlevin said:

So, big changes to the 10 Nov Istanbul to Dubai itinerary.  Probably three more Med stops before going through the canal.  I hope they keep Luxor as they have maintained that stop even when Egypt was having their own internal problems.  

We are on that cruise so yes. All fingers crossed that there will be some good options but hopefully Luxor will stay on the agenda

[Golf Mad Girl]

4 hours ago, labonnevie said:

We have taken over 20 cruises, so we understand missed ports all too well. However, it is hard to say that we would have signed up for this cruise if it did not include Israel and Egypt. We have been to Istanbul, Ephesus and Rhodes. There are already 7 sea days of 21 and we have been to most of the Med ports. The ports are not the only reason for the cruise, of course, but if we just wanted to cruise we wouldn't have to travel to the middle east to do so. We generally pick our cruises based on where we want to go. We love Regent (although the Navigator not so much - yes, we know many love her). Hopefully we can still get to Petra, Luxor, etc. This is our fourth attempt at this cruise and we are just frustrated. And yes, we are very mindful these are all first world problems and that Israel is fighting for its very survival and their people have lost so much. 

Would be surprised about Petra..been there and it is great but the trip there is very close to some nasty things.  would hate Luxor to be cancelled as we have 2 days of snorkeling (been to the Valley before).  Never can get too much of the med though....

[Golf Mad Girl]

8 hours ago, Joanandjoe said:

Or even Rhodes or malta, since we are already going to Crete.

All really good options😊

[roninman]

8 hours ago, cwn said:

Don’t take a cruise where a port/s are the only reason for the cruise. You risk all kinds of reasons that may make the ship miss the Port and especially a cruise to an unstable area.

 

 

Exactly.   WE risk it, as the risk is passed to the customer, not the vendor.   We have become accustomed to being lectured about this rule as though it is a law of nature, not simply a corporate decision to pass business risk to the customer.  

 

Still, there are ways a corporation can help mitigate the risk so that it is not so one-sided, such as by freely offering refunds or future credit should half the "Holy Lands" voyage been cancelled, as in this case.  But such gestures need to be done up front, right away, before customers are put through the "alternate flights" dance.

 

To their credit, competitive cruise lines did exactly that.   Whereas this, the self-proclaimed "world's most luxurious cruise line" did exactly the opposite- immediately announcing "no refunds, no credit."   

[papaflamingo]

7 hours ago, CrushIt said:

It’s now Thursday and we had to cancel early this morning with little chance of any money back, credit, or re-booking. We have lost all confidence in Regent. A long three way conversation with Regent Air and then with our TA’s main booking contact made it very clear that the bean counters are running the show at RSS. No regard whatsoever for the needs of the customer. The Regent agent even threatened to charge us an additional $2k+ for their trouble if we were no-shows for the cruise. So, now we have been forced to block our credit cards that are on file with them. Now, we learn that at least one other major cruise line has cancelled ports of call in Egypt. Five sea days out of ten. Not my idea of a productive cruise.

What was the $ 2K+ charge for? That makes no sense to me.  Once you've made final payment that's it. Unless you add something to the cruise that increases the cost there are no other charges.  And I've never heard of being charged additional for not showing up or cancelling last minute.  We had to cancel this cruise a couple weeks ago (we were to start in Athens) due to me catching Covid.  Regent simply cancelled the cruise and are refunding me the port fees and taxes. The rest I claim against my insurance policy.  And our cancellation actually came the morning we were to fly to Athens to board the ship.  So did they tell you what the $2K+ was for?  

[papaflamingo]

7 minutes ago, roninman said:

Exactly.   WE risk it, as the risk is passed to the customer, not the vendor.   We have become accustomed to being lectured about this rule as though it is a law of nature, not simply a corporate decision to pass business risk to the customer.  

 

Still, there are ways a corporation can help mitigate the risk so that it is not so one-sided, such as by freely offering refunds or future credit should half the "Holy Lands" voyage been cancelled, as in this case.  But such gestures need to be done up front, right away, before customers are put through the "alternate flights" dance.

 

To their credit, competitive cruise lines did exactly that.   Whereas this, the self-proclaimed "world's most luxurious cruise line" did exactly the opposite- immediately announcing "no refunds, no credit."   

EVERY cruise line does this.  And why would the corporation accept a portion of the risk that a port may cancel, or you might get sick, or there will be a terrorist event, all events beyond the cruise line's responsibility?  That's what Travel Insurance is for... to mitigate the risk.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by papaflamingo

[melbox4]

19 minutes ago, roninman said:

Exactly.   WE risk it, as the risk is passed to the customer, not the vendor.   We have become accustomed to being lectured about this rule as though it is a law of nature, not simply a corporate decision to pass business risk to the customer.  

 

Still, there are ways a corporation can help mitigate the risk so that it is not so one-sided, such as by freely offering refunds or future credit should half the "Holy Lands" voyage been cancelled, as in this case.  But such gestures need to be done up front, right away, before customers are put through the "alternate flights" dance.

 

To their credit, competitive cruise lines did exactly that.   Whereas this, the self-proclaimed "world's most luxurious cruise line" did exactly the opposite- immediately announcing "no refunds, no credit."   

Regent has made some poor choices. I am most shocked at the poor customer service from air department. Atrocious.

Edited October 13, 2023 by melbox4

[roninman]

24 minutes ago, papaflamingo said:

EVERY cruise line does this.  And why would the corporation accept a portion of the risk that a port may cancel, or you might get sick, or there will be a terrorist event, all events beyond the cruise line's responsibility?  That's what Travel Insurance is for... to mitigate the risk.  

 

As I said, yes, cruise lines do this and we have come to accept it as a natural law of nature.  In what other enterprise can a corporation  get away with refusing to compensate the consumer when a well-advertised feature is not forthcoming?  When you promote yourself as the world's most luxurious cruise line, claiming "all the other cruise lines do this" is not a good look.  Especially when NOT all the other lines are doing this, as see below.

 

Corporations, too, can have insurance to mitigate risk.   Most do.   But why would a corporation bother to purchase extra insurance when they can get customers to bear the burden?  If port cancellation due to geopolitical events is beyond the control of a corporation, it is certainly beyond the control of the consumer, who is paying the cruise line to make port arrangements.

 

As I also mentioned, there are other ways to help mitigate risk, such as being generous with refund or credit, just as other lines have done.  Your reply didn't mention this.

 

 

[Techno123]

Is travel insurance not a 'thing' for people who live in the US?
 

Living in the UK, we never travel (even within the UK) without travel insurance to cover health, lost things and unforeseen events. Certainly if we had a land trip to Israel it would be covered as the FCDO have warned against travel.
 

However, don't know what happens in this case although reading previous posts it would seem some UK customers have received a refund.
 

Several years ago we had all our Turkish stops cancelled on a Seabourn cruise because of unrest there and it was a frantic scramble to rebook flights to different airports, but in fairness to Seabourn, they refunded our original flights (they did not include flights at this point) and paid for an overnight hotel when we disembarked. I think the disruption and debt incurred during Covid has definitely impacted how 'generous' the cruise companies can be 😢

[papaflamingo]

8 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

As I said, yes, cruise lines do this and we have come to accept it as a natural law of nature.  In what other enterprise can a corporation  get away with refusing to compensate the consumer when a well-advertised feature is not forthcoming?  When you promote yourself as the world's most luxurious cruise line, claiming "all the other cruise lines do this" is not a good look.  Especially when NOT all the other lines are doing this, as see below.

 

Corporations, too, can have insurance to mitigate risk.   Most do.   But why would a corporation bother to purchase extra insurance when they can get customers to bear the burden?  If port cancellation due to geopolitical events is beyond the control of a corporation, it is certainly beyond the control of the consumer, who is paying the cruise line to make port arrangements.

 

As I also mentioned, there are other ways to help mitigate risk, such as being generous with refund or credit, just as other lines have done.  Your reply didn't mention this.

 

 

Clearly you aren't familiar with the tourist industry or transportation industry.  Have you ever had a flight late or cancelled?  I worked in the airline industry for 29 years and the obligation of the airlines is to get you to your final destination within 6 hours.  So if you miss a meeting or cruise for a late arrival, the airlines will not accept responsibility.  So there's ONE other industry.  When you ship something be it via truck, ship, or plane, they will give you a guaranteed delivery for an ADDITIONAL PRICE (basically you pay for late arrival insurance).  Otherwise, it'll get there when it gets there.  There's another industry.  

When you book a hotel room and you pay a non-refundable price and have to cancel because of ANYTHING, you don't get reimbursed.  There's another industry. 

If you buy a piece of clothing and wear it in a rainstorm and get it muddy and ruin it, the store doesn't give you your money back.  

THIS is EXACTLY why there is a Travel Insurance industry... the airlines, hotels, stores, trains, busses, ships, are not going to accept responsibility for problems that are beyond their control.  And THAT is the "natural law of nature." 

I didn't mention refunds or credits because they aren't worth mentioning.  Other lines generally have done this when it's a situation that affects ONLY them, like a mechanical issue.  But patience, this isn't over, Regent just might issue some sort of partial credit to compensate for missing Israel and Egypt.  Give them time.  If they do, great..if not...well there's always Travel Insurance that may reimburse for missed ports. 

[papaflamingo]

7 minutes ago, Techno123 said:

Is travel insurance not a 'thing' for people who live in the US?
😢

It is for me... and good thing.  We were supposed to be on this cruise (actually starting in Athens).  On the morning we were to fly to Athens I felt sick and tested positive for Covid.  Fortunately we had Travel Insurance.  

[Techno123]

22 minutes ago, papaflamingo said:

It is for me... and good thing.  We were supposed to be on this cruise (actually starting in Athens).  On the morning we were to fly to Athens I felt sick and tested positive for Covid.  Fortunately we had Travel Insurance.  

Hope you feel better soon. We picked Covid up on our Norwegian cruise in July - it was definitely worse than the version we picked up in March 2022.

[papaflamingo]

4 minutes ago, Techno123 said:

Hope you feel better soon. We picked Covid up on our Norwegian cruise in July - it was definitely worse than the version we picked up in March 2022.

Thank you...Actually mine wasn't too bad.  We had the new booster a week before so that may have helped.  Had a cough and some sinus blockage for a day, then it started improving daily and I tested Covid free 5 days later, unfortunately (or fortunately considering Israel and Egypt) the day after the cruise departed Athens.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by papaflamingo

[roninman]

1 hour ago, papaflamingo said:

Clearly you aren't familiar with the tourist industry or transportation industry.  Have you ever had a flight late or cancelled?  I worked in the airline industry for 29 years and the obligation of the airlines is to get you to your final destination within 6 hours.  So if you miss a meeting or cruise for a late arrival, the airlines will not accept responsibility.  So there's ONE other industry.  When you ship something be it via truck, ship, or plane, they will give you a guaranteed delivery for an ADDITIONAL PRICE (basically you pay for late arrival insurance).  Otherwise, it'll get there when it gets there.  There's another industry.  

When you book a hotel room and you pay a non-refundable price and have to cancel because of ANYTHING, you don't get reimbursed.  There's another industry. 

If you buy a piece of clothing and wear it in a rainstorm and get it muddy and ruin it, the store doesn't give you your money back.  

THIS is EXACTLY why there is a Travel Insurance industry... the airlines, hotels, stores, trains, busses, ships, are not going to accept responsibility for problems that are beyond their control.  And THAT is the "natural law of nature." 

I didn't mention refunds or credits because they aren't worth mentioning.  Other lines generally have done this when it's a situation that affects ONLY them, like a mechanical issue.  But patience, this isn't over, Regent just might issue some sort of partial credit to compensate for missing Israel and Egypt.  Give them time.  If they do, great..if not...well there's always Travel Insurance that may reimburse for missed ports. 

Points well taken.   If an airline is unable to transport you to your destination, you get refunded.  If a delivery company can't make a delivery, you get refunded.  If your clothing is not as advertised, you get a refund.  If the hotel can't give you the room, you get refunded.  It's well established in the world that if an advertised good or service can't be delivered, whether beyond the control of the corporation or not, you get refunded.   They can't come to you and say, hey, our plumbing  broke, our truck broke down, our plane had a mechanical, so we'll just keep your money.

 

Other cruise lines immediately offered refunds and credit last weekend when Haifa was cancelled.   This was great, because customers didn't have to anguish over travel arrangements, or risk forcing disgruntled customers aboard lest they lose their payments.  It's a little late to offer those credit or refund when they would rather not have been their in the first place, especially when Regent told customers right from the start you will NOT get a refund or credit.

 

 

 

[papaflamingo]

25 minutes ago, roninman said:

Points well taken.   If an airline is unable to transport you to your destination, you get refunded.  If a delivery company can't make a delivery, you get refunded.  If your clothing is not as advertised, you get a refund.  If the hotel can't give you the room, you get refunded.  It's well established in the world that if an advertised good or service can't be delivered, whether beyond the control of the corporation or not, you get refunded.   They can't come to you and say, hey, our plumbing  broke, our truck broke down, our plane had a mechanical, so we'll just keep your money.

 

Other cruise lines immediately offered refunds and credit last weekend when Haifa was cancelled.   This was great, because customers didn't have to anguish over travel arrangements, or risk forcing disgruntled customers aboard lest they lose their payments.  It's a little late to offer those credit or refund when they would rather not have been their in the first place, especially when Regent told customers right from the start you will NOT get a refund or credit.

 

 

 

Yes, and if the cruise is cancelled you get a refund.  The cruise hasn't been cancelled.  But thanks for pointing that out. 

[stanleyheller]

To Papa Flamingo. AND, Regent sold us over-priced Travel Insurance that doesn't cover either being unable to get to the Cruise or missing half of it !!! situation!!!

 

[Pcardad]

5 minutes ago, stanleyheller said:

To Papa Flamingo. AND, Regent sold us over-priced Travel Insurance that doesn't cover either being unable to get to the Cruise or missing half of it !!! situation!!!

 

Did you buy it directly or through your TA? Did you ask what it covered?

[zak477]

We too will be on the Navigator for the November 10th sailing out of Istanbul. We booked this cruise only because of the itinerary with overlands in Egypt and Israel. And also overlands in Turkey and Dubai.  No way will we want to travel to Israel now and even if Regent does not cancel this port of call, we will not leave the ship. And now Egypt is questionable. So is this cruise going to be just another Mediterranean cruise ending in Dubai?  No way would we have spent so much money for the altered itinerary. Sadly, looking at our Allianz travel insurance, most, if not all of our expenses are Not covered due to the act of war being declared in Israel. I already called them in anticipation. 

 

 

[Mystictraveler]

I have followed this thread with interest. While I am not on this cruise, I am on another Regent cruise which leaves in one month. 

 

Those that point out that the cruise contract allows Regent to change ports of call, as they are doing, without offering refunds or FCC seems to be factually accurate. But, IMHO, they need to look beyond their contractual obligations and do the right thing by offering some sort of options for those passengers who do not want to travel on the revised itinerary. 

 

We did the Israel pre-cruise land package with Regent in June 2022 and then embarked on the Explorer in Haifa. It was a bucket list trip and the only reason we booked the cruise was a chance to visit Israel. And I see this Voyager trip also included Egypt (now cancelled) which is also a bucket list item for many. 

 

When covid first started, we were booked on a Bali to Hong Kong cruise. Regent did the right thing and offered us 100% FCC (which we used for our Israel trip) and they covered the non-refundable portion of a airline costs. They did the right thing in that unusual situation. They should do the right thing in this unusual sitation.