Cruise lines should get out of the airplane business

[pavementends]

In a related thread Sololux said

 

" if I was doing a same day flight and cruise to always book with the cruise line - it’s their responsibility to get you onto the ship"

 

BUT apparently they don't really have that responsibility. They seem to have the responsibility to TRY. And sometimes that is just plain impossible.

 

Consider an Antarctic trip. Or even a cruise that starts off with a few sea days. Miss the boat and you miss either the entire cruise or a very considerable portion of it.

 

I submit that no one (except possibly inveterate gamblers) should fly in the day of the cruise. And that cruise lines should not facilitate that choice, by making a more rational arrival a day or two early an extra-cost option.

 

By the way, I can think of two cases where cruise lines have tried to mitigate the risk. When I did an Antarctic trip the cruise operator included two (2!) nights in a nice hotel in Ushuaia as part of the trip. Now this means that even in the event of an air travel problem it is very likely that a traveler will still make the cruise.

 

And another line (won't say who, here, but think helmet with horns) seems to always have a night in port at the beginning of cruises. Again this makes it hard to miss the cruise in the event of misconnection or whatever.

 

Personally I don't expect to ever buy air travel from a cruise line and I will always arrive days in advance. Partly because, well, if you are going to be in another country, it makes sense to see some of that country.

 

[applefan75]

All the cruise line is doing by offering air is opening the possibility to the potential of a lower contracted airfare.  It is not the cruise lines responsibility to ensure you make it to the ship regardless of whether you bought your airfare from them or another source.

 

No cruise line is in the "airplane business."

[MBP&O2/O]

Virgin?😄

[UKCruiseJeff]

2 hours ago, applefan75 said:

All the cruise line is doing by offering air is opening the possibility to the potential of a lower contracted airfare.  It is not the cruise lines responsibility to ensure you make it to the ship regardless of whether you bought your airfare from them or another source.

 

No cruise line is in the "airplane business."

 

You seem to be missing the point that the OP made.  He was not saying literally that they were in the airline business.

 

He was expressing the way that customers are wilfully lulled into a false sense of security and expectations and also regularly paying more than if they made their own arrangements whilst also preventing them from making the rational decision of having a pre-cruise overnighter and that they only learn better from when it is too late.  They simply and reasonably feel that this arrangement guarantees what they incorrectly but reasonably presume.

 

It seems like a valid point to me and of use to others without your knowledge and experience.

 

Jeff

 

 

[applefan75]

8 minutes ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

You seem to be missing the point that the OP made.  He was not saying literally that they were in the airline business.

 

He was expressing the way that customers are wilfully lulled into a false sense of security and expectations and also regularly paying more than if they made their own arrangements whilst also preventing them from making the rational decision of having a pre-cruise overnighter and that they only learn better from when it is too late.  They simply and reasonably feel that this arrangement guarantees what they incorrectly but reasonably presume.

 

It seems like a valid point to me and of use to others without your knowledge and experience.

 

Jeff

 

 

No, didn’t miss the point.  Silversea clearly states, quote: “ In providing air arrangements, Silversea acts only as an agent on the guest’s behalf and does not operate, control or supervise any airline and will not be held responsible for carriers failing to meet schedules whether or not air schedules / tickets were issued by Silversea.”

 

The same terms and conditions are used by all cruise lines that also offer contracted airfare.  THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS PURCHASE TRAVEL INSURANCE.

[UKCruiseJeff]

23 minutes ago, applefan75 said:

No, didn’t miss the point.  Silversea clearly states, quote: “ In providing air arrangements, Silversea acts only as an agent on the guest’s behalf and does not operate, control or supervise any airline and will not be held responsible for carriers failing to meet schedules whether or not air schedules / tickets were issued by Silversea.”

 

The same terms and conditions are used by all cruise lines that also offer contracted airfare.  THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS PURCHASE TRAVEL INSURANCE.

 

You are now missing my point.  And seem unaware of the varying rights of SS customers and  consumers world-wide.

 

Most people do not read all of the small print.  They make rational presumptions. In many countries there is in fact no need to read the small print on consumer contracts because a large number are completely unenforceable - although it is of course always wiser to read them than not to,  Of course all customers should have travel insurance but that is a different point and may provide questionable and uncertain cover. 

 

In many countries if SS fail to make “a reasonable effort” to get them to the cruise then they would have full legal recourse. They will also highly probably even have that full recourse if the cruise-line tried hard and failed.   You may not have that protection if you are in the US - but you are comprehensively protected if you are in the UK and EU and several others etc irrespective of the terms you cite.

 

So Brits will have different set of rational expectations and protections than Americans. The different rights that different people have adds to the complexity for customers when making rational decisions. 

 

That is why the OP’s warning is a great thing for him/her to do - and they were right to - and they should be thanked for taking the trouble.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1 by UKCruiseJeff

[DavyWavey70]

24 minutes ago, applefan75 said:

No, didn’t miss the point.  Silversea clearly states, quote: “ In providing air arrangements, Silversea acts only as an agent on the guest’s behalf and does not operate, control or supervise any airline and will not be held responsible for carriers failing to meet schedules whether or not air schedules / tickets were issued by Silversea.”

 

The same terms and conditions are used by all cruise lines that also offer contracted airfare.  THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS PURCHASE TRAVEL INSURANCE.

 

As Jeff said above things vary greatly by Country. Within the Uk they would be bound by the Package Travel Regulations 2018 which specifically holds them responsible for the performance of the package. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it ever went to a UK court.  

 

Performance of the Package
13. The 2018 PTRs explicitly places liability for the performance of the travel
services included in the package on the organiser (regulation 15) irrespective
of whether the travel services are performed by third parties.

[UKCruiseJeff]

9 minutes ago, DavyWavey70 said:

 

As Jeff said above things vary greatly by Country. Within the Uk they would be bound by the Package Travel Regulations 2018 which specifically holds them responsible for the performance of the package. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it ever went to a UK court.  

 

Performance of the Package
13. The 2018 PTRs explicitly places liability for the performance of the travel
services included in the package on the organiser (regulation 15) irrespective
of whether the travel services are performed by third parties.

 

That is specifically travel industry protection.

 

They are however covered by much much more wider protections - including travel - covering all consumer contracts  in the UK, EU and other places.  Almost all EU consumer law is based on the Uk as is much of Oz.   Consumers pick whichever legislation that better supports their claim. 

 

Anyone interested in learning more might google UK+ “Consumer contracts unfair contract terms” and  “Consumer contracts implied terms” and the more obscure term but equally important of “balance of power considerations in consumer contracts.”.

 

Anyway … we go over this many times! American’s need to move to the UK to enjoy our consumer protections!

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Edited August 1 by UKCruiseJeff

[applefan75]

1 hour ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

That is specifically travel industry protection.

 

They are however covered by much much more wider protections - including travel - covering all consumer contracts  in the UK, EU and other places.  Almost all EU consumer law is based on the Uk as is much of Oz.   Consumers pick whichever legislation that better supports their claim. 

 

Anyone interested in learning more might google UK+ “Consumer contracts unfair contract terms” and  “Consumer contracts implied terms” and the more obscure term but equally important of “balance of power considerations in consumer contracts.”.

 

Anyway … we go over this many times! American’s need to move to the UK to enjoy our consumer protections!

 

Jeff

 

 

 

You all are correct…I was only speaking from an American perspective where the consumer just gets crapped on.  Only interests protected here are big business.  I’d love some of the protections along with the healthcare and social interests provided to the other “1st world” countries.

[Sololux]

This is the reason I have to fly from France to the U.K. first then onwards to the embarkation country as U.K. travel agents have advised that I must I must book my France to U.K. flight but they can then handle my flight and cruise requirements, legally, from the U.K. onwards.  Everything would then be covered by U.K. T&C which they are familiar with.

[UKCruiseJeff]

2 hours ago, Sololux said:

This is the reason I have to fly from France to the U.K. first then onwards to the embarkation country as U.K. travel agents have advised that I must I must book my France to U.K. flight but they can then handle my flight and cruise requirements, legally, from the U.K. onwards.  Everything would then be covered by U.K. T&C which they are familiar with.

 

You have identical protection in the EU for bookings made with French TAs and the advice you have received is bewildering. 

 

Jeff

[DavyWavey70]

48 minutes ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

You have identical protection in the EU for bookings made with French TAs and the advice you have received is bewildering. 

 

Jeff

 

A Lot of Agencies are only licensed to sell holidays that "originate" from the UK so that would make sense. 

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 hour ago, DavyWavey70 said:

 

A Lot of Agencies are only licensed to sell holidays that "originate" from the UK so that would make sense. 

 

The point is that he could book through a French agency and enjoy the same protections and then not have to travel to the UK.

[DavyWavey70]

8 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

The point is that he could book through a French agency and enjoy the same protections and then not have to travel to the UK.

I Think the point was that Sololux wanted to book through a UK travel agent for whatever reason and as I pointed out many UK travel agents aren't licensed to book any holiday that doesn't originate from the uk. That would explain why they had to book flights to the uk and then pick up the UK ABTA protected arrangements. My partners agency is not covered by his license for any holiday where "point of origin" is outside the UK. I Don't wish to nitpick with you Jeff and I'm not sure what I've done wrong that has turned what I believed to be a sincere friendship into some sort of contest but I'm done now.

 

[UKCruiseJeff]

21 hours ago, Sololux said:

This is the reason I have to fly from France to the U.K. ………. Everything would then be covered by U.K. T&C which they are familiar with.

 

Davey, it does not appear to be “for whatever reason “ because Sololux is based in SW France and posted in a thread about consumer rights following our specific posts with respect to those enhanced rights and protections offered in the UK.

 

I meant no harm but simply suggested that they could enjoy the identical rights that we had described without making travel the arrangements through a UK agent and thus avoid the first unnecessary flight leg.  

 

It seemed like a reasonable interpretation of what was posted to offer the bit of advice and clarity to suggest that this wasn’t necessary just in case the reasons were for doing so was for the ones that they appear to be stating.  

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3 by UKCruiseJeff

[Port Power]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:16 PM, Sololux said:

This is the reason I have to fly from France to the U.K. first then onwards to the embarkation country as U.K. travel agents have advised that I must I must book my France to U.K. flight but they can then handle my flight and cruise requirements, legally, from the U.K. onwards.  Everything would then be covered by U.K. T&C which they are familiar with.

Please come back and clarify for us.  Did you book with a UK travel agent because you prefer that particular agent?  That is what I have assumed.  It’s good to see that you are well aware of the various legalities and responsibilities of TAs and different regions.

[Sololux]

The main problem is language.  Although I can understand a certain amount of French and “franglais” I don’t have sufficient fluency when it comes to making sure I fully understand terms and conditions written in French.  A U.K. TA has made it very clear that their liabilities only kick in when I start with them on U.K. soil.  
 

To be fair, although I would start from Toulouse I would quite likely have to still fly to Paris to get to several cruise embarkation destinations - there’s a few that could b3 direct but not many and some with very limited flight times.  As that could then mean having to cross Paris to change airports I’m better off going to Heathrow (knowing too well how fraught that could be) as all terminals are in one, relatively, large location.