Phantom credit card charge by Carnival

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, mfs2k said:

We're talking about having RFID tags sewn into bed and terry linen with a life of about 3-5 months on a cruise ship. That's not a capital investment.  That's an operating expense.

Your own situation is different when you talk about tagging fixed objects. You're not adding chips/tags to disposible items.

I don't think I have much else to contribute on this topic.  We may just have to agree to disagree. In 2024 nobody convinces anyone to change their mind. 

 

We're talking about buying towels/linens with RFID tags already installed (it's cheaper that way - basically the same cost as towels/linens without) AND buying all the necessary RFID reader equipment. It's absolutely a capital investment.

 

Whether they should do it comes down to a lot of details about how good they are at getting reimbursed $40 for a towel that costs them $4. If 20%+ just pay for their lost towel, Carnival is likely turning a profit on lost towels.

 

 

[mfs2k]

10 minutes ago, aborgman said:

We're talking about buying towels/linens with RFID tags already installed (it's cheaper that way - basically the same cost as towels/linens without)

As someone who literally buys sheets and towels for a luxury hotel in manhattan and has discussed this with the company reps who sell the sheets and towels, I can tell you it "basically" is NOT the same cost as those without RFID.  It costs more.  Believe me.  And when you have to replace your entire inventory every 4 months due to wear and tear, the increase in cost is not something to be ignored. It's only a worthwhile cost increase if it will save you money from losses and on a ship which does it's on laundry, it will not.  

[aborgman]

11 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

As someone who literally buys sheets and towels for a luxury hotel in manhattan and has discussed this with the company reps who sell the sheets and towels, I can tell you it "basically" is NOT the same cost as those without RFID.  It costs more.  Believe me.  And when you have to replace your entire inventory every 4 months due to wear and tear, the increase in cost is not something to be ignored. It's only a worthwhile cost increase if it will save you money from losses and on a ship which does it's on laundry, it will not.  

 

 

24"x50", 10lb/dozen, terry bath towels: $3.67 each in quantities of 240 or more

24"x50", 10lb/dozen, terry bath towels with RFID tags: $3.93 each in lots of 252.

7% more expensive with the RFID tag.

[mfs2k]

20 minutes ago, aborgman said:

24"x50", 10lb/dozen, terry bath towels: $3.67 each in quantities of 240 or more

24"x50", 10lb/dozen, terry bath towels with RFID tags: $3.93 each in lots of 252.

 

 

Rough numbers:

80,000 passengers x 90% occupancy = 72,000 passengers per day x 6 towels (bath, hand, pool) x 3 par x turnover 4x per year = 5,184,000 towels for guests alone.  Does not include washcloths, robes, bathmats.  Assume 25k shipboard crew fleetwide x 2 towels per day x 3 par x turnover 4x per year = 600,000 towels  Total towels let's round to 6 million a year.

 

Sheets 72,000 passengers per day x 2 sheets x 3 par x turnover 4x per year = 1.7million. Pillowcases, lets say the same  Another 1.7 million.

Crew sheets/pillowcases  25,000 x 2 sheets plus 2 pillowcases x 1 change per week x par 2 x turnover 3x per year = 600,000 a year

 

So that's a total of exactly 10 million pieces x 0.26 per chip (which I think is way too low) = $2,600,000 in extra cost.  (I think the real number is double that) plus the software, scanners, readers, etc.. on every ship.  Plus the complications of scanning every piece of luggage as it leaves the ship for stolen pillow cases.

 

Do you think it's worth it? 

 

Edited August 23 by mfs2k

[mfs2k]

 

PS.  I'd love to know the real numbers from Carnival's buyers to see how far off I am from actual.

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, mfs2k said:

So that's a total of exactly 10 million pieces x 0.26 per chip (which I think is way too low) = $2,600,000 in extra cost.  plus the software, scanners, readers, etc.. on every ship.  Plus the complications of scanning every piece of luggage as it leaves the ship for stolen pillow cases.

 

Do you think it's worth it? 

 

 

Way low? It's literally the sales prices directly from a company selling both.

 

Is it worth it? Hard to say without knowing their rate of lost towels, and rate of collecting 10x the towels cost when it happens.

 

...but as noted: "Worth it" and "cost effective" are totally different things.

 

 

[mhlcanada]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:30 AM, ontheweb said:

OTOH, some may not bother to contest the charge with Carnival, which will mean that they collect money for towels that were returned, and they still have. Not having an attendant there to check the towels back in is just wrong.

Update to everyone: Carnival has agreed to reverse the charges!  Be sure to review the charges on your credit card and not just the statement of account on disembarkation. It is up to the passenger to request corrections!

[Are.we.there.yet?]

I heard yesterday that they will also refund my charges for the water bottles.  🙂

 

[Mike45LC]

Good job!  

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, mhlcanada said:

Update to everyone: Carnival has agreed to reverse the charges!  Be sure to review the charges on your credit card and not just the statement of account on disembarkation. It is up to the passenger to request corrections!

Good for you. Persistence and paying attention pay off.