Another Perspective on additional Costs

[Sunviking]

All the hoopla about extra charges on board the Crown Princess particularly and ships in general today made me think back to our first cruise on RCI's old ship Sun Viking. Our first cruise was in late October, 1983, a seven day from Barbados to Miami. We booked the very lowest category of cabin. My DH likes to joke that we were the last to arrive in port and the last to leave because we were so far aft and we were so low that our beds felt like those magic fingers ones in motels where you put in a quarter. There was no TV in the cabin. There was one dining room with 2 seatings, a small cafe where you could get a limited buffet for breakfast or lunch. There was one pool, 2 lounges, a pool bar and the Viking Crown lounge. There were no shipboard accounts at that point so you had to carry cash with you for drinks and tips.

We paid almost $1300 for the voyage not including air. In adjusted dollars that comes to the equivalent of almost $2500 today.

 

I looked at pricing for an October, 2006, cruise on the Crown Princess, and a 9 day cruise in the lowest category can be had for $699 pp + port charges and taxes (I didn't check with some of the agents who usually give even lower prices because I don't want to waste their time). I don't know what the rest of you think but this tells me that the cruise lines are really trying to hold prices down and make their product something many people can afford. On the Crown Princess, as on most of the new ships, there are multiple options for dining, swimming, entertainment, exercising, lounging and even learning for which there is no additional cost. Nobody is forced to pay at alternative venues for any of these activities and I don't really think anyone is justified in complaining that they are getting an inferior cruise product if they don't choose to pay any extras.

 

Some people have written that the cruiselines should just jack up their prices to include the extras instead of "nickle and diming" everyone. By doing that some of the people who can currently cruise and are happy with the experience without the extras might be priced out of the market. Others have said that with all the extras you can pay, princess pricing is becoming comparable to the upscale all-inclusive lines. I would respectfully beg to differ with them. On the next cruise my DH and I have booked, a comparable cabin on a Regent Seven Seas ship sailing almost exactly the same itinerary at almost exactly the same time is nearly $11,000 more than what we are paying. I can pay a lot of fees at the Sanctuary or Sabatinis for that much money.

 

Perhaps if people want to have a better handle on extra expenses the cruise lines could come up with upgraded packages. For example, for a set fee for your particular cruise you could buy a package entitling you to dine at alternative restaurants a certain number of times and use the sanctuary so many half days. If you don't want it you don't have to book it.

 

In conclusion, even with extras I think cruising is a real value. I think one would be hard pressed to go on a land vacation and have the amenities, entertainment, transportation , convenience, and, pretty importantly in this day and age, security that a cruise affords.

 

Okay that's more than my 2 cents worth.

 

Ann

[seagarsmoker]

Great post Ann and agree. My first cruise as an adult was in '89 and adjusted dollars comes to the equivalent of almost $2800 today. We can book a mini-suite on Princess for less than that.

We just returned from an all-inclusive 4 star resort in Cabo and agree, they can't touch what a cruise offers.

[mii]

Hi Ann: Boy do I agree with you. Very well said. It seems like the first page of this forum has been complaints about the new additions of the Crown on whether they should pay additional fees, not pay additional fees.

 

Thank you Ann for the well written report.

 

Marilyn

[hightownCO]

Well said and I'm sure there are many who will agree --including me.

 

Going to the add'l charge restaurants is not for us right now. I don't really care about specialty coffees. Nor will I be using the adult type areas like Santuary. So why should cruise fare for myself and 13yr old daughter go to supplement costs for folks that want to enjoy those things. Plus if it's all included in the fare, there's going to be a lot more people using those perks and much more crowded.

 

As long as our fare covers basic room, traditional type dining, and basic amenities/entertainment, we're totally happy.

[woodofpine]

You're point is well made and the growth of the cruise industry reflects the product improvements and overall value it offers in the vacation market.

 

It seems that sometime one of the lines is going to expand the soda card concept into a "super inclusive" package of stuff (pick your favorites - deluxe coffees, santcuary spots, internet...) and offer it up for say $100-150pp.

[Richard]

You really hit the nail on the head. Very well put and I can't agree more.

[Leslieswiger]

Hello Ann! I very much agree with what you have said, and find your thread well written.;) I have been cruising since 1956 and I am most comfortable how the cruise lines are doing business. It cannot be easy for them to stay afloat. Happy Sailings...Leslie Swiger:)

[mindykatz]

Very refreshing to finally read a comment about the extra fees that isn't all whining and complaining!

 

Well thought, well put, well said. :)

[Redsgj]

I totally agree with you too, Ann.

 

As I've said before, the problem with including items in the cruise fare rather than "nickel and diming" is that what person A wants included in their cruise fare is most likely the complete opposite of what person B wants included.

 

Also, I don't feel that just because they are offering more "premium" options at a cost that the quality of the "free" items will go down. I'm not sure why people seem to feel that this is a natural progression.

 

As hightownCO said, give me my room, board and entertainment with my cruise fare and I'm happy! If I want something "extra", that is my decision at the time to make!

[LonghornKJK]

Very good argument! I even found myself looking up EasyCruise the other day after I learned about it on this board. I don't know that we'll ever do it but I can see the appeal.

 

Thanks for this well-reasoned, well-written piece. :)

[LARGIN]

Ann... Great post.. Thanks

[madelinerose]

Thanks, Ann. It's all about choices...we choose to do whatever we choose to do on any vacation. ;)

[Pam in CA]

Ann... so very true! I totally agree.

 

For our 7-day RCI cruises back in the 80s, the cabins were tiny, the bathroom was a joke, the beds were fixed to the walls and became sofas during the day, there was fixed breakfast seating (6:30AM or 8AM) in addition to fixed dinner with no other food options other than room service and there were few amenities onboard. For that, it cost about $5000/couple.

 

People relatively new to cruising don't realize what a terrific bargain they're getting. I do moan and groan about all the big ships as I prefer the smaller ones, but in reality, the larger ones are much more efficient to run and are more cost effective, holding down the costs for everyone.

 

As an FYI, my daughter and I are taking an all-inclusive vacation over Christmas in Punta Cana, including air. It's about the same as it would have cost to cruise for the week -- maybe a little less since I booked it through a warehouse club. It'll be interesting to compare what we get for my money.

[mariakitty]

After reading (and responding) to so many posts about the Sanctuary, I actually started looking at all-inclusive cruise lines and comparing costs. They are still expensive, and include a lot things we wouldn't do anyway. Princess is elegant, but affordable, and we love the choices the the line offers. Some of these choices we are willing to pay for, some we are not, but the beauty is actually HAVING choices! This is why we cruise in the first place. :)

 

Maria

[bubbadog]

me and my wife agree too,we like it just the way it is,and if we want the extras we ll pay for it,but dont want it included in price,everyone likes something different,and the way it is now gives you options:))))),and yes well put anne;)):rolleyes:

[spongerob]

Ann, I'm in basic agreement with all you have said. However, I don't quite go along with this statement:

Some people have written that the cruiselines should just jack up their prices to include the extras instead of "nickle and diming" everyone. By doing that some of the people who can currently cruise and are happy with the experience without the extras might be priced out of the market.

I think sometimes we forget that cruising involves a lot of extra costs that aren't immediately apparent. Cruising, even at mass-market rates, is still a luxury vacation and the total cost can be quite high. The value, I think, comes from the fact that you get a lot more out of a cruise vacation compared to some of the alternatives. Sometimes I think people really don't know what they are getting into when they book a cruise - whether it be itinerary changes, added charge options, or whatever - and the reality can come as a nasty surprise.

[TinaLee]

Count me among those who agree as well. If I want the bells and whistles then I'll pay for them. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't - as the mood strikes. That's one of the nicest things about cruising in my eye, the ability to tailor the experience to what YOU want it to be. Be that in chosing your cruise line, your type of cabin, your itinerary, or whether or not you'll pay extra to dine or buy photographs. Everyone has to decide for himself/herself what it takes to make your vacation special... and woe betide the person who tries to make that decision for me. :-)

 

Now, I have to say that Pam, this comment just cracked me UP!!

 

As an FYI, my daughter and I are taking an all-inclusive vacation over Christmas in Punta Cana, including air. It's about the same as it would have cost to cruise for the week -- maybe a little less since I booked it through a warehouse club. It'll be interesting to compare what we get for my money.

 

"what WE get for MY money" - there speaks a true Mom! LOLOL!! :D

[CruisenOne]

Well said Anne:)

 

On all of the cruises that my wife and I have taken -

Both before we were married and after we were married; we were NEVER forced to take something additional that we did not wish to do.

 

We cruised single, before we met on a cruise.

We paid the 160%/200? single premium - No complaints!

 

All of the nickle/diming rhetoric that I have seen recently tells me that

the complainers should go to a resort some where. Pay for all meals,

entertainment, etc.

They will see "Nickle/Diming"

 

Again -- Well Said

[Pam in CA]

Now, I have to say that Pam, this comment just cracked me UP!!

 

"what WE get for MY money" - there speaks a true Mom! LOLOL!! :D

I was going to say, "for our money" but what the heck, I'm foot'n the bill and happy to do so.

[Sunviking]

I can identify with the footing the bill comment. The next cruise I'm going on is with my daughter and I'm doing what you're doing. But it's worth it because I get to spend some special time with her and I don't get to do that all too often now that she's grown and living away from here in VA. I think it's great that you are going with your daughter.

 

Ann

[caviargal]

Nobody is forced to pay at alternative venues for any of these activities and I don't really think anyone is justified in complaining that they are getting an inferior cruise product if they don't choose to pay any extras.

 

Some people have written that the cruiselines should just jack up their prices to include the extras instead of "nickle and diming" everyone. By doing that some of the people who can currently cruise and are happy with the experience without the extras might be priced out of the market. Others have said that with all the extras you can pay, princess pricing is becoming comparable to the upscale all-inclusive lines. I would respectfully beg to differ with them. On the next cruise my DH and I have booked, a comparable cabin on a Regent Seven Seas ship sailing almost exactly the same itinerary at almost exactly the same time is nearly $11,000 more than what we are paying. I can pay a lot of fees at the Sanctuary or Sabatinis for that much money.

.

 

Ann

 

While I am sure it is possible to pay much more for a luxury line, it is also true that it is possible to pay less.

 

This is from another thread I posted to earlier regarding my decision to cancel Crown and go with RSSC.

 

I was booked on Crown in a mini for 1199pp.

 

The cheapest SUITE is 1998pp plus 200 port and fees on RSSC that week, much larger than the Mini on Princess. You are not comparing apples to apples with the CB inside you quote.

 

Wine with dinner is included so this save me $50 per night minimum plus port after dinner for dinner. So, 75 a day.

 

Then, I have a stocked bar in my room saving on predinner scotch or martini. Another 25 for 2 people per day or 175 for the cruise.

 

Gratuities are included so this saves a minum of $140 for the week and we rarely tip minimum.

 

Then there are the specialty restaurants. Last 7 night cruise, we dined there 6 of 7 nights preferring the intimacy and service. So we would spend another minimum of $250 for the week on food and that is not including Vines and the seafood bar.

 

We both drink bottled water at the rate of 5-6 bottles per day. At 1.50 per bottle that is $175 for the week.

 

I will take at least 4 fitness classes in a week, normally more. Add $50.

 

Add one balcony dinner at 115.

 

Add three half days for two in Sanctuary as this is the ambiance we prefer. That adds $90 for the week.

 

That racks up an additional 1205 on Princess. All of these extra plus more - caviar daily - are included on RSSC. And, I can have a course by course dinner every night with a menu not limited to what Princess chooses. And a hot, fresh breakfast on my balcony.

 

Add my air savings of $1000 for the two of us and in this case, RSSC is cheaper.

 

And there is simply no comparison in service, amenities and quality.

 

4603 Crown

4400 RSSC

 

Just another perspective on a 7 night Caribbean cruise...

[coiran]

With that logic you are wise in cancelling Princess - stick with RSSC if you require all those amenities. Some folks, however, cannot afford all those amenities and/or do not require them but still want an enjoyable cruise and the ability to pick and choose the extras they want.

Ron

[Sunviking]

Good for you that you were able to find a cruise for a cheaper price. I think, however, that you misread what I posted. When I said that the price of a comparable cruise in a comparable cabin was $11,000 more I meant exactly that. I was not comparing an inside cabin to a suite on a Regent Seven Seas, I was comparing the cost of the Owner's Suite to one of comparable sq. footage on the Navigator. As for the perks you list, many of those same perks are available to you in a full suite on Princess. As for the rest I still maintain that I can buy a lot of pampering for the difference in price. As an aside, our last several cruises have been in suites on Princess and we have had some of the best service we have ever had anywhere, including at land based resorts. On the Coral Princess in May we had the best cabin steward we have ever had, bar none.

 

Ann

[caviargal]

Good for you that you were able to find a cruise for a cheaper price. I think, however, that you misread what I posted. When I said that the price of a comparable cruise in a comparable cabin was $11,000 more I meant exactly that. I was not comparing an inside cabin to a suite on a Regent Seven Seas, I was comparing the cost of the Owner's Suite to one of comparable sq. footage on the Navigator. As for the perks you list, many of those same perks are available to you in a full suite on Princess. As for the rest I still maintain that I can buy a lot of pampering for the difference in price. As an aside, our last several cruises have been in suites on Princess and we have had some of the best service we have ever had anywhere, including at land based resorts. On the Coral Princess in May we had the best cabin steward we have ever had, bar none.

 

Ann

 

Ann, I was responding to a post that was comparing an inside on CB to an outside suite on RSSC and did not edit that part out; sorry! It must have been confusing.

 

The two staterooms I compared are similar is size and the two that I used for my personal cost comparison. I had booked on Crown months ago and simply have been second guessing that decision ever since, knowing that I do not like the big ships with so many passengers and less personal attention.

 

For my money, there is no comparison between the smaller luxury ships and the onboard atmosphere and service. There are seldom any children on board, the food is amazing and the service incredibly professional. I never have to search far for a deck chair, I do not have to account for beach towels, etc. It is the small details that differentiates the experience IME and it goes far beyond accomodation.

 

I have not cruised with Princess in years, but have cruised in full suites on RCI, X and HAL, amongst others. While quite nice indeed and with many perks, IMO nothing takes the place of the elegance of a luxury ship. For me, a regular cabin on RSSC is a much more enjoyable experience than the grandest suite on a mass market line. There are only 2 of us and, while lots of square footage is nice, I choose a suite for the perks not the space. On RSSC, those perks are for everyone.

 

It all boils down to what is important to the individual. I agree that if you cruise without the "options" that are surcharged on the mainstream lines, it is cheaper. But, for myself, I always have to "lux up" to get an experience I can enjoy so that is seldom a good value. I have watched the decline in mass market cruising (first cruise was in 1968) and these days can barely get excited about a cruise as IMO it simply does not compare to the old days. I am a traditionalist and appreciate the elegance and experience of yesteryear and that is getting harder and harder to find.

 

Just my thoughts and it is always interesting to read differing points of view.:)

[DrD]

 

Some people have written that the cruiselines should just jack up their prices to include the extras instead of "nickle and diming" everyone. By doing that some of the people who can currently cruise and are happy with the experience without the extras might be priced out of the market.

 

Well, that's kind of the point of it.