Desperate! We need your advice!

[yj2cute]

I don't think the OP has a legal case, but I'm surprised at the number of posters (TAs?) that think the TA did nothing wrong. In the age of the internet, lots of travel agencies, particularly the ones without large corporate clients, have gone out of business. I would have thought that one of the remaining ways a TA could still have value to a traveler would be in situations like this. Yes, the OP should have known the law, but she apparently asked the TA about it; surely the TA should have also known the law and, realizing its importance, made a note in the file for her client to be sure to remind her about it. In this case, the TA apparently did not even know the law and didn't have the initiative to check it. The TA may be very busy, but if this is an example of her service, she may not be very busy for much longer.

 

I agree with this completely. Yes, it was the OPs responsibility to make sure she has the right documentation, but she thought she was being responsible by having a TA handle this for her. Yes, it was definitely a mistake not to read the documents that were mailed to her, but the TA told her up front that she didn't need any Visas. This TA obviously failed her client because she gave incorrect information right up front. I think this was the beginning of the entire mess. If the TA had actually checked her facts before giving the wrong answer, none of this would have happened. They are both at fault, but I blame the TA more. She gets a commission not to sit on her butt, but to assist the traveler. If she couldn't be bothered to do this she should have told the client she didn't know about the visas and told her she had to find out for herself. Then the OP could have taken her business elsewhere.

[Merion_Mom]

Not reading a legal document which you are required to sign: thoughtless. Common enough, but thoughtless.

 

INDICATING IN WRITING by initialling, saying that you are a U.S. citizen when you know that you are not: STUPID.

 

Perhaps the TA assumed that the client was now a U.S. citizen, SINCE THE CLIENT SIGNED THAT SHE WAS A U.S. CITIZEN.

[rjg41]

I am still waiting for the OP to tell us when and under what circumstances she thinks she told the TA she was not a citizen. We only have her comment that she told the TA. What are the details of that conversation? Did she tell the TA more than once?

 

I am also waiting for the OP to explain who filled in her PP number, a requirement, on the RCCL documents.

 

I am still convinced that we do not have ALL the details.

[rjg41]

The reason I have been asking about the PP number entry is that this information is required for boarding docs to be issued. Further, the cruise line picks up the issuing country from the number. It should have automatically triggered, reagrdless of the US Citizen entry, a visa requirement. I would strongly suggest such a requirement appeared on the OP's docs and besides not reading what she signed, she didn't read her docs either. If RCCL failed to note a visa requirement on her docs, they would seen to have some responsibility.

 

Still would like to know the answer to my TA being told question.

 

Would be inderested in the OP's reply to this.

[WECoyote]

Wrong! If you read all the posts, as you claim you would see that you are highly mistaken.

 

The TA did everything in her best interest. OP opted not to read anything, signed everything without reading it, didn't read her documents. OP doesn't have a case!

 

I realize the young lady made a mistake by not reading everything that was put in front of her. Thus it is her fault by "ommision". What I do find intriguing is all the "travel consultants" who vociferiously verbalize that it is "not the TA's fault". The TA was asked, the TA responded, and theTA sent documentation that will ultimately clear the TA of responsibility. What the TA did not do was listen and then provide the necessary information in the beginning. After reading your rants Seamama1, now you may understand why your profession rates somewhere down in the area of ambulance chasing attorneys and why more and more of us repeat travelers book on our own and do not send our cruise reservations to TA or, if we do, why we hold auctions to see who we can get the most out of.

[dream trip 06]

I am still waiting for the OP to tell us when and under what circumstances she thinks she told the TA she was not a citizen.

 

I told the TA after I had put my down payment. I told her that both of us were not US Citizens and told her what country we were from. She told me that we would not need anything else other than a passport. I didn't "think" I told the TA...I did tell her!

 

 

We only have her comment that she told the TA. What are the details of that conversation? Did she tell the TA more than once?

Why would I need to tell the TA more than once? When she told me that I didn't need it the first time, I believed her. Should I not trust my TA after she had already answered my question? I would think she would know what she's talking about, after all this is her job!

 

I am also waiting for the OP to explain who filled in her PP number, a requirement, on the RCCL documents.

I filled out all the documents myself and non of the documents that I filled out for RCCL asked for Visas. I even have to enter my Passport number and obviously it would have showed it's not a US passport. It never gave me anything that told me that I needed a visa. I completed the online check in and according to the RCCL, everything was okay.

[dream trip 06]

 

But, as a citizen of another country residing in the US, didn't you have to have a visa to enter the US, and wouldn't someone of your status be particularly aware of what is required for international travel?

 

I'm a resident alien of the US, I came here when I was 14 yrs. old. I've lived here for 15 years and since I do not travel abroad every chance I get, I wouldn't know what someone of my status would need to travel internationally. That is why I hired a TA to let me know if I needed a visa. I've traveled to Mexico, Jamaica and Grand Cayman and never needed a visa.

[takeavacation]

I After reading your rants Seamama1, now you may understand why your profession rates somewhere down in the area of ambulance chasing attorneys and why more and more of us repeat travelers book on our own and do not send our cruise reservations to TA or, if we do, why we hold auctions to see who we can get the most out of.

 

What a rude and unnecessary comment!:( I am a TA and I don't go searching for clients - or chasing them down as you would suggest -- they come to me and send their friends/family/co-workers too. I do agree that there are some lazy and less than professional agents out there - but, please don't lump us all together. Those of us that work VERY hard for our clients don't appreciate it. Thank you.:)

[cruisePRN]

What a rude and unnecessary comment!:( I am a TA and I don't go searching for clients - or chasing them down as you would suggest -- they come to me and send their friends/family/co-workers too. I do agree that there are some lazy and less than professional agents out there - but, please don't lump us all together. Those of us that work VERY hard for our clients don't appreciate it. Thank you.:)

 

Yes but the OP's TA didn't do what she was supposed to do when she was told the status of the citizenship of the OP. If the TA can't provide great service and know what to do for the OP she should not have taken her business. This kind of bad publicity only turns people away from TA's and makes them book their own cruises. I also find it unfair the all the TA's on the board blindly sided with the TA yet constantly tout what knowledgable professionals they are. If you're truely unbiased them you'd realise that the TA in question isn't in your professional league and is giving you a black eye.

To the OP go to small claims, you have nothing to loose and i believe you'll win because you were not given what your travel agent charged you for.

[seamama1]

I realize the young lady made a mistake by not reading everything that was put in front of her. Thus it is her fault by "ommision". What I do find intriguing is all the "travel consultants" who vociferiously verbalize that it is "not the TA's fault". The TA was asked, the TA responded, and theTA sent documentation that will ultimately clear the TA of responsibility. What the TA did not do was listen and then provide the necessary information in the beginning. After reading your rants Seamama1, now you may understand why your profession rates somewhere down in the area of ambulance chasing attorneys and why more and more of us repeat travelers book on our own and do not send our cruise reservations to TA or, if we do, why we hold auctions to see who we can get the most out of.

 

Ambulance chasers!!! Now that's funny.:D

 

You have your right to disagree, fer sure. However, you seem to be among the many who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and try to blame someone else. OP goofed up big time. TA's are not babysitters!

 

While it's true that many more people make their own reservations, it is equally true that MOST cruise bookings come through the TA community. A lot of people who make their own travel plans sometimes get their tails in big doo-doo too and try to blame it on wherever their spit lands.

 

In OP's case, she, by her own admission, acted irresponsibly. I hope that RCCL will work with her and let her apply some credit to a future cruise. They don't have to but they might.

[takeavacation]

Yes but the OP's TA didn't do what she was supposed to do when she was told the status of the citizenship of the OP. If the TA can't provide great service and know what to do for the OP she should not have taken her business. This kind of bad publicity only turns people away from TA's and makes them book their own cruises. I also find it unfair the all the TA's on the board blindly sided with the TA yet constantly tout what knowledgable professionals they are. If you're truely unbiased them you'd realise that the TA in question isn't in your professional league and is giving you a black eye.

To the OP go to small claims, you have nothing to loose and i believe you'll win because you were not given what your travel agent charged you for.

 

I am not biased -- I agree with you that the agent should not have advised the OP that she only needed a passport -- even if that meant saying "I don't know" (trust me...I have to say it often -- and then go find out the answer!!)

 

BUT....as an agent, I also know that we can't make people read the info. we send them. All we can do is let them know the details (highlighting works well) -- and hope that they read read read! There really is only so much hand holding that can be done.

 

To the OP - I'm sorry this happened to you and your friend. I stand by my earlier advice to work WITH your TA and RCCL and see if something can be worked out. I hope that they will be very generous and issue you a credit. Remember, don't let your TA take no for an answer -- keep calling and calling and calling. Good Luck to you both.

[briri]

I realize the young lady made a mistake by not reading everything that was put in front of her. Thus it is her fault by "ommision". What I do find intriguing is all the "travel consultants" who vociferiously verbalize that it is "not the TA's fault". The TA was asked, the TA responded, and theTA sent documentation that will ultimately clear the TA of responsibility. What the TA did not do was listen and then provide the necessary information in the beginning. After reading your rants Seamama1, now you may understand why your profession rates somewhere down in the area of ambulance chasing attorneys and why more and more of us repeat travelers book on our own and do not send our cruise reservations to TA or, if we do, why we hold auctions to see who we can get the most out of.

 

Ouch!!!...not sure I'd compare them to "ambulance chasing attorneys" cuz I'd hate to insult lawyers, but seriously......

 

Why, exactly, should those of us wanting to travel abroad consult with and purchase travel packages thru TAs?.....

 

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that if I were to use a TA they would help guide me thru some of the more intricate and constantly changing, requirements/regulations that these trips entail....

 

I am not a lawyer, nor do I want to be, and I certainly don't understand the pages of mumbo jumbo that are generated by the airlines, cruiselines, TAs, hotels, car rentals etc.... Anyone on this board that says they read everything is lying....No one, even those who wrote them, can read the whole car rental agreement before the rental would be over....I can guarantee you that 99.9% of people don't read the package inserts that come with their medications.......Sometimes you have to trust those who are the professionals.... I don't need a babysitter as some have suggested, but would think double checking with me about appropriate documentation before going overseas would be a given....

 

I understand that I am responsible for having the appropriate documents...that is why I would hire a TA to help.... So if the TAs all agree that only the traveler is at fault, then why should any of us ever hire a TA?....

 

Funny thing, my doctor doesn't blame me when I get sick, and he always tries to help even if I didn't read the package insert...he'd probably feel it was un-professional and certainly un-ethical not to.....:rolleyes:

 

my $.02

[takeavacation]

Starting a sentence with "yes but" is a huge flag JMHO!!!

 

Karen, you have spewed so much incorrect information over the past several months. If you are a TA, I really feel sorry for your clients :eek:

 

###

 

Karyn8 isn't a travel agent -- she doesn't appear to approve of agents and wants everyone to know it. Whatever -- to each their own. Those type of clients are not the ones I want to work with! I'll stick with my loyal and wonderful group of clients!!:D

[sailinglisa]

Quote from the OP's original post: "Okay...stupid me believed her and took her word for it even though 3 weeks before we left for our cruise we had received our cruise papers and it stated in there that if you're not a US citizen that you would need to acquire a visa to get in those countries."

 

So, the OP received notice THREE WEEKS before leaving that she would need a VISA - and she didn't question it - even though RCCL told her at that time (on her documentation) that she WOULD need a visa. At that time, the OP didn't call the TA and say, "hey, what's going on!" Maybe if she had, between the TA and RCCL they would have been able to reschedule her cruise for a later date when the visa's had been obtained. Ultimately responsiblity for travel documentation is ALWAYS the responsibility of the traveler - not the TA or the cruise line or airline, or railroad.

[nrdsb4]

I've bought several homes in my lifetime and i rely on the realtor to have me sign the appropriate forms. If I sat and read every word in every form I've ever signed It would be a miracle. When you pay a commission to a "supposed" professional they should do their duty. A TA is similiar in their duty to do the best for you.

I think the TA is more responcible then the OP. Had the OP dealt directly RCL and bypassed the TA then they'd have no excuse.

 

Yes, but it's not the realtor's responsibility to read the forms for you. If you sign said appropriate forms without reading them and thereby make a false statement you and you alone must accept the consequences.

 

When we closed on our homes, my husband has read every single page, every single word before signing. That's why it took the better part of a day at the title company. Being a real estate broker, he knows that once you sign, you cannot go back later and use refusal to read the document as a justification for any inability to fulfill the terms of the contract.

 

I think all of us have at one time or another signed something without reading all of the terms. But we are gambling - every time I do it I know that I won't have a leg to stand on later if something goes wrong.

 

I sympathize with the OP. But these two statements on her part indicate to me that whatever mistakes her TA made, the ultimate responsibility lies with the OP. Regardless of what the TA knew in their initial conversation, the OP received the info she needed but did not act. I don't know of any court that would accept "I didn't bother to read what I was signing and most people don't read everything either so don't hold me to my word."

 

Okay...stupid me believed her and took her word for it eventhough 3 weeks before we left for our cruise we had received our cruise papers and it stated in there that if you're not a US citizen that you would need to acquire a visa to get in those countries. But I believed her and didn't question her about it.

 

 

She had sent me some paperwork in the mail right after I paid my cruise in full and she told me to initial the areas she highlighted. Again, stupid me didn't read the areas she highlighted and just initialed it and mailed it back. Not knowing that I initialed a part in there that said that we are United States citizens. Although, I don't know why she would highlight that in the first place after I already told her that we were not. I know most of you will agree that this part was my mistake, that I should be reading everything before signing...but I didn't and I guess I'm paying for it.

[nrdsb4]

I told them my side of the story and they asked me why did the airlines let me board their flight knowing that I would need a visa to enter spain. I told them that no one told me at the airport that I would be needing a visa to enter. Later on I found out from one of the airlines agent that they should have checked to see if I needed a visa and not have let me in the plane. She said that whoever did that would get in trouble and that if anyone found out the airlines would be fined big time! Anyway, the barcelona police was very upset and angry with the airlines and travel agent for not letting me know the correct policies.

 

The lawyer was the one that told me to file a complaint against the airlines for letting me in the plane in the first place!

 

I am confused about why the airline issue is being highlighted so heavily.

While I am astounded that the airline would have let you board the flight to Barcelona without your visa, the airline is not responsible for the fact that you didn't have it to begin with. Had they denied you boarding, you would still have been out the money for your flight - the traveler does not get a refund when the reason they do not make the flight is that they didn't bring proper documents.

 

Secondly, had they denied you boarding the plane, you still would have been without the needed visa. While it would have saved you the episode in the Barcelona airport/jail, I don't see how this would have prevented what ultimately happened - you losing out on the cruise.

 

MAYBE you could have gotten the visa in time to salvage part of the cruise (I sincerely doubt it, though), but you would have taken a huge financial hit having to pay for a last minute flight to Europe.

[MGoBlue2]

The reason I have been asking about the PP number entry is that this information is required for boarding docs to be issued. Further, the cruise line picks up the issuing country from the number. It should have automatically triggered, reagrdless of the US Citizen entry, a visa requirement. I would strongly suggest such a requirement appeared on the OP's docs and besides not reading what she signed, she didn't read her docs either. If RCCL failed to note a visa requirement on her docs, they would seen to have some responsibility.

 

Still would like to know the answer to my TA being told question.

 

Would be inderested in the OP's reply to this.

The RCI cruise documentation clearly states that having all required travel documents is the passenger's responsibilty:

 

It is the sole responsibility of the guest to identify and obtain all required travel documents and have them available when necessary. These appropriate valid travel documents such as passports, visas, inoculation certificate and family legal documents are required for boarding and re-entry into the United States and other countries.

 

For your protection, we recommendthat your passport expiration date not occur within six (6) months of the sailing termination date.

 

Guests who do not possess the proper documentation may be prevented from boarding their flight or ship or from entering a country and may be subject to fines. No refunds will be given to individuals who fail to bring proper documentation.

[NYDee]

Maybe the OP should write to the ombudsman at "Conde Nast Travel" magazine. Maybe the would intercede for her.

[Catnip]

What the TA did not do was listen and then provide the necessary information in the beginning.

 

more and more of us repeat travelers book on our own and do not send our cruise reservations to TA or, if we do, why we hold auctions to see who we can get the most out of.

 

Well, now, that might not necessarily true.....we've only heard one side of the story...:rolleyes: We really don't know what the TA told her at all, do we?

 

And yes, there can be "bad" travel agents, just like there can be "bad" anything....even "bad" customers! :cool: But, the majority are good people that want their customers to be happy & satisfied...after all, that is how they make a living!

[WECoyote]

Ambulance chasers!!! Now that's funny.:D

 

You have your right to disagree, fer sure. However, you seem to be among the many who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and try to blame someone else. OP goofed up big time. TA's are not babysitters!

 

While it's true that many more people make their own reservations, it is equally true that MOST cruise bookings come through the TA community. A lot of people who make their own travel plans sometimes get their tails in big doo-doo too and try to blame it on wherever their spit lands.

 

In OP's case, she, by her own admission, acted irresponsibly. I hope that RCCL will work with her and let her apply some credit to a future cruise. They don't have to but they might.

 

No, I am not calling you ambulance chasers. I am saying that the TA that refuses to do their job and accept responsibility for NOT acting on information they were given are on par WITH ambulance chasing lawyers.

 

Yep, I have the right to disagree. You have a young lady from another country who is depending on the expertise of a "professional". Yes, it obvious she needed to do her own research becase the "professional" was too busy or otherwise occupied to take care of her customer. You leap to the defense of the TA laying the blame on the young lady from a foreign country who does have somewhat of a right to lay a defense of ignorance. She provided the information to and trusted the "expertise" of the "professional" who did not follow up.

 

I take responsibility for all my actions. If something goes wrong, I don't pass the blame. I deal with it, learn from it, and I move on. I nearly missed a cruise due to fog. We did not have insurance and would have lost thousands of dollars. The TA who handled our cruise had stated she did not think that we really needed the insurance on that particular trip. We never even mentioned it to her and we used her a couple times more, until her office went out of business. I also take care of my employees and my customers. It seems that I am in the significant minority any more. Have you bothered to take a look at all the conflicting laws lately? I do on a daily basis. If I know I am dealing with someone that is not familiar with our convoluted laws, I take extra care in trying to educate them and keep them out of trouble. Knowing that I cannot rely on "professionals" to take care of their customers, I choose not to be at the mercy of individuals who can't be bothered.

 

TAs are being paid to do a job. It does not matter if they get their commission from the cruise line or the customer. Ultimately, the money is coming from the customer. The customer is paying for more than a product, they are paying for knowledge and guidance. If a TA cannot be bothered to provide those products, then the TA doesn't belong in the business. On that note, yes a TA is being PAID to be a babysitter.

[WECoyote]

Ouch!!!...not sure I'd compare them to "ambulance chasing attorneys" cuz I'd hate to insult lawyers, but seriously......

 

Why, exactly, should those of us wanting to travel abroad consult with and purchase travel packages thru TAs?.....

 

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that if I were to use a TA they would help guide me thru some of the more intricate and constantly changing, requirements/regulations that these trips entail....

 

I am not a lawyer, nor do I want to be, and I certainly don't understand the pages of mumbo jumbo that are generated by the airlines, cruiselines, TAs, hotels, car rentals etc.... Anyone on this board that says they read everything is lying....No one, even those who wrote them, can read the whole car rental agreement before the rental would be over....I can guarantee you that 99.9% of people don't read the package inserts that come with their medications.......Sometimes you have to trust those who are the professionals.... I don't need a babysitter as some have suggested, but would think double checking with me about appropriate documentation before going overseas would be a given....

 

I understand that I am responsible for having the appropriate documents...that is why I would hire a TA to help.... So if the TAs all agree that only the traveler is at fault, then why should any of us ever hire a TA?....

 

Funny thing, my doctor doesn't blame me when I get sick, and he always tries to help even if I didn't read the package insert...he'd probably feel it was un-professional and certainly un-ethical not to.....:rolleyes:

 

my $.02

 

Very well said and exactly the point I should have been trying to make if I wasn't so angry when I read the TA responses.

[Catnip]

You leap to the defense of the TA laying the blame on the young lady from a foreign country who does have somewhat of a right to lay a defense of ignorance.

 

.

 

I don't agree. The young lady is from another country, and as such, certainly is familiar with Visa's. Foreign guests know that certain countries require Visa's when entering their country. So, that should have come as no surprise.

While I am truly symphathetic for what happened to her, it is not solely the TA's fault.

[nrdsb4]

Yep, I have the right to disagree. You have a young lady from another country who is depending on the expertise of a "professional". Yes, it obvious she needed to do her own research becase the "professional" was too busy or otherwise occupied to take care of her customer. You leap to the defense of the TA laying the blame on the young lady from a foreign country who does have somewhat of a right to lay a defense of ignorance. She provided the information to and trusted the "expertise" of the "professional" who did not follow up.

 

 

Let's not forget that the OP is an almost 31 year old adult. Responsible adults do not depend on the expertise of others when it comes to something that is so easily verified, they do their own research (whether the TA was too busy or not) in order to protect their interests.

I take responsibility for all my actions. If something goes wrong, I don't pass the blame. I deal with it, learn from it, and I move on.

 

That's commendable. You don't think other grown ups should do the same?

 

 

Look, the OP admits that ultimately she received written documents that clearly pointed out a discrepancy between what the TA told her and what was actually required of her. She didn't meet the most basic of requirements - she didn't read what she was given and even signed her name to one of them. It's definitely a lesson she can learn from unless people on this forum convince her that the best response is to point the finger at others.

 

To say that she made a mistake and is solely accountable for it does not equate to saying she's a bad person, or should be flogged. The sky won't fall down on her head if she simply takes full responsibility.

 

Maybe RCI will come through for her.