NCL Art Auctions - Change in Companies & Lawsuit

[KeystoneCruiser]

After reading about the problems that people who purchased art on board have had recently, I checked with my father, who won a painting, and my brother in law, who bought several paintings on our Dawn cruise in June.

 

Neither had received their art yet and since 8 weeks had passed, it was pass the "timeframe" they were given. I told them about the comments on the board and my dad went to work on the phones. (when my dad is after answers get out of his way!!)

 

He first called the art company. He spoke to a very nice lady that said their company was no longer dealing with NCL and were not filling the orders. She gave him a phone number of a person to call at NCL. When dad asked what happened, she told him that "there had been an misunderstanding between NCL and their art company" and that there was "a very large lawsuit against NCL filed by their company." She wouldn't go into details.

 

My father then called the NCL contact. Again, a very nice person on the other end. (the "most knowledgeable person I have ever spoken to at NCL" was his exact words about her.) She told him that they had indeed changed art companies but that the new company was going to fill all existing orders that had been purchased on NCL cruises this past summer. She gave him a phone number and contact name to call and told him to have his order number and receipt ready when he called. She then told him that if he had any problems getting the art, to call her back. When he asked her about the lawsuit from the previous art company, she replied: "we are not allowed to talk about pending litigation." (so there is a lawsuit!) Once again, dad stressed that she was extrmely friendly and helpful.

 

He now has a call into the new art company. (he didn't have the name of the company with him when he stopped over, but I will find out.) They were closed for the day when he called late this afternoon, but he left a message and asked them to call him on Thursday.

 

I will keep you posted as to what he hears.

[newmexicoNita]

After reading about the problems that people who purchased art on board have had recently, I checked with my father, who won a painting, and my brother in law, who bought several paintings on our Dawn cruise in June.

 

Neither had received their art yet and since 8 weeks had passed, it was pass the "timeframe" they were given. I told them about the comments on the board and my dad went to work on the phones. (when my dad is after answers get out of his way!!)

 

He first called the art company. He spoke to a very nice lady that said their company was no longer dealing with NCL and were not filling the orders. She gave him a phone number of a person to call at NCL. When dad asked what happened, she told him that "there had been an misunderstanding between NCL and their art company" and that there was "a very large lawsuit against NCL filed by their company." She wouldn't go into details.

 

My father then called the NCL contact. Again, a very nice person on the other end. (the "most knowledgeable person I have ever spoken to at NCL" was his exact words about her.) She told him that they had indeed changed art companies but that the new company was going to fill all existing orders that had been purchased on NCL cruises this past summer. She gave him a phone number and contact name to call and told him to have his order number and receipt ready when he called. She then told him that if he had any problems getting the art, to call her back. When he asked her about the lawsuit from the previous art company, she replied: "we are not allowed to talk about pending litigation." (so there is a lawsuit!) Once again, dad stressed that she was extrmely friendly and helpful.

 

He now has a call into the new art company. (he didn't have the name of the company with him when he stopped over, but I will find out.) They were closed for the day when he called late this afternoon, but he left a message and asked them to call him on Thursday.

 

I will keep you posted as to what he hears.

thanks Keystone, good information.

 

NMNita

[tumeroll]

After reading about the problems that people who purchased art on board have had recently, I checked with my father, who won a painting, and my brother in law, who bought several paintings on our Dawn cruise in June.

 

Neither had received their art yet and since 8 weeks had passed, it was pass the "timeframe" they were given. I told them about the comments on the board and my dad went to work on the phones. (when my dad is after answers get out of his way!!)

 

He first called the art company. He spoke to a very nice lady that said their company was no longer dealing with NCL and were not filling the orders. She gave him a phone number of a person to call at NCL. When dad asked what happened, she told him that "there had been an misunderstanding between NCL and their art company" and that there was "a very large lawsuit against NCL filed by their company." She wouldn't go into details.

 

My father then called the NCL contact. Again, a very nice person on the other end. (the "most knowledgeable person I have ever spoken to at NCL" was his exact words about her.) She told him that they had indeed changed art companies but that the new company was going to fill all existing orders that had been purchased on NCL cruises this past summer. She gave him a phone number and contact name to call and told him to have his order number and receipt ready when he called. She then told him that if he had any problems getting the art, to call her back. When he asked her about the lawsuit from the previous art company, she replied: "we are not allowed to talk about pending litigation." (so there is a lawsuit!) Once again, dad stressed that she was extrmely friendly and helpful.

 

He now has a call into the new art company. (he didn't have the name of the company with him when he stopped over, but I will find out.) They were closed for the day when he called late this afternoon, but he left a message and asked them to call him on Thursday.

 

I will keep you posted as to what he hears.

 

Now here is a very interesting point. Every art auction I have ever dropped into on board a ship always states that their art is exclusive and rare one of a kind sort of stuff. Now exactly how can the new company fill the orders from the old company. Unless of course the art is really not rare, one of a kind or hard to find. Instead it is off the rack, out of a catalog and not that hard to come by. Hmmm!

[seahorse]

Now here is a very interesting point. Every art auction I have ever dropped into on board a ship always states that their art is exclusive and rare one of a kind sort of stuff. Now exactly how can the new company fill the orders from the old company. Unless of course the art is really not rare, one of a kind or hard to find. Instead it is off the rack, out of a catalog and not that hard to come by. Hmmm!

 

Most of the art on ships now are NOT rare......one of a kind OR hard to find. Most are prints, lithographs, seriographs, etc. There are a few "one of a kind" peices.

[KeystoneCruiser]

Now here is a very interesting point. Every art auction I have ever dropped into on board a ship always states that their art is exclusive and rare one of a kind sort of stuff. Now exactly how can the new company fill the orders from the old company. Unless of course the art is really not rare, one of a kind or hard to find. Instead it is off the rack, out of a catalog and not that hard to come by. Hmmm!

 

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't go to the art auctions and I wouldn't know a Piccasso from a Charles Shultz, but I too have heard them advertize "one of a kinds" in the Freestyle Dailies and over the PA. I will have to ask my brother in law who knows about art.

[uneamie]

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't go to the art auctions and I wouldn't know a Piccasso from a Charles Shultz, but I too have heard them advertize "one of a kinds" in the Freestyle Dailies and over the PA. I will have to ask my brother in law who knows about art.

 

Hmm...well I am an artist. If I paint something then it is "one of a kind". If someone copies it with permission, either by painting it or printing it etc... then it is a "reproduction".

Reproductions can be very nicely done. "Thomas Kinkade" paintings are almost all reproductions at this time (with his permission) but he puts in all the lights. Kinkade is called the "painter of lights". The lighting in his paintings is georgeous and very unique but he is the only one who puts the light in the reproductions which makes the painting quite pricey.

Many one of a kind paintings have been legally copied and usually it is known upon purchase that you are buying a copy. But there are fraudulant sales as well.

[smeyer418]

I did an internet search and can't find either an announcement or the lawsuit itself. Lawsuits are not usual. The bankruptcy of the Fine Arts Parent is interesting as well. My personal take on this is(without knowing anything more) is I wonder whether Fine Arts tried to "buy" the business by offering a high amount to get the contract away from Park West. I found it interesting that the payments to NCL had to be guaranteed by Fine Arts Parent company. Also I find it just as strange that NCL knows what was individually purchased. In any case no consumer should suffer because of a dispute between the two companies. I would like to see all the paperwork(the lawsuits)...

 

A print of something is not a reproduction it is a print. I think they are careful about what they call things...

[brooklynphil]

There were no art auctions on the Spirit last week.:( I asked someone and just said that they were changing company at the time.

 

Phil

[seahorse]

I did an internet search and can't find either an announcement or the lawsuit itself. Lawsuits are not usual. The bankruptcy of the Fine Arts Parent is interesting as well. My personal take on this is(without knowing anything more) is I wonder whether Fine Arts tried to "buy" the business by offering a high amount to get the contract away from Park West. I found it interesting that the payments to NCL had to be guaranteed by Fine Arts Parent company. Also I find it just as strange that NCL knows what was individually purchased. In any case no consumer should suffer because of a dispute between the two companies. I would like to see all the paperwork(the lawsuits)...

 

A print of something is not a reproduction it is a print. I think they are careful about what they call things...

 

I think that they are careful about what they call things also, but I don`t think that the buyer understands it. Even the artist is confused here.

 

Is not a reproduction a "real" painting done by an artist to reproduce the original?? and it must be sold as such?

 

I was confused (who me:eek: ) at the last auction by what they were calling "originals" they seem to have changed the meaning. My meaning is......this is the ONLY painting done of this painting.........not a print signed by the artist, not something that the artist put some brush strokes on, etc.

 

People think that they are getting "originals" when they are not.......shades of gray:rolleyes:

[Kay240]

As I don't swim (and therefore don't snorkle or scuba), Art Auctions, along with the food, and easy availability of dance music, is one of the highlights of our cruises. :) As a result, I have heard descriptions from many representatives (usually from Park West) as to exactly what they are actually selling. There were times I felt ready to explode, because of the misconceptions and confusion caused! :eek: One person made it very easy by saying an original painting or sculpture was a "Level 1", an artist's originally signed, limited edition print, such as an etching, lithograph, or seriograph, was a "Level 2", and a mass produced, unlimited edition was a "Level 3". The auctions sell mostly "Level 2"; there are some areas of overlap, such as when an artist (Peter Max, for instance) hand embellishes a seriograph. I guess this would be "Level 2 1/2".:D It does make the work more valuable.

 

I can't help but think about a man who came over to DH and I, as we were waiting for departure, about two years ago. He had just paid around $10,000 for one painting (?), AND WANTED REASSURANCE FROM US, as he had never bought art before! He recognized us from the auctions, where we bought MUCH LESS expensive items, usually at "opening bid".

 

Some artists deal with multiple galleries; some have exclusive contracts. I don't know how Park West can fulfill another galleries sales, except that Park West IS A VERY BIG BUSINESS!!

[uneamie]

Is not a reproduction a "real" painting done by an artist to reproduce the original?? and it must be sold as such?

 

I was confused (who me:eek: ) at the last auction by what they were calling "originals" they seem to have changed the meaning. My meaning is......this is the ONLY painting done of this painting.........not a print signed by the artist, not something that the artist put some brush strokes on, etc.

 

People think that they are getting "originals" when they are not.......shades of gray:rolleyes:

 

 

Hmm...If I paint a picture and someone else paints that picture (exactly as I painted it) then it is a reproduction of an original. Prints of my painting or what ever else is created with "my image" that I painted would be considered copies as well as reproductions of my original painting... which can only be done with my permission.

The bottom line here is that no painting can be called an original if it is not painted by the original painter. If an artist puts some brush strokes on it as in Thomas Kinkade adding lights to paintings that others copy of his paintings then that particular piece of art cannot be called an original. I think there are many interpretations of this but this is mine and how I view my own art.

[Kay240]

Hmm...If I paint a picture and someone else paints that picture (exactly as I painted it) then it is a reproduction of an original. Prints of my painting or what ever else is created with "my image" that I painted would be considered copies as well as reproductions of my original painting... which can only be done with my permission.

 

The bottom line here is that no painting can be called an original if it is not painted by the original painter. If an artist puts some brush strokes on it as in Thomas Kinkade adding lights to paintings that others copy of his paintings then that particular piece of art cannot be called an original. I think there are many interpretations of this but this is mine and how I view my own art.

 

Have you ever created a "silk screen" print? The "art work" is the print, which is created by blocking out different sections of the silk screen and then "pressing" ink through the screen onto the paper (or material). This is done over and over until the final design has been built up color by color, and the sequence repeated many times. One reason you need "many" is that they all may not be perfect. The original design or picture could have been a little sketch in colored pencils or crayons... A lithograph is drawn on a special stone with special crayons that will both allow and resist the ink applied on top of it (positive and negative space), which then has a paper pressed onto it, transferring the image. Etchings have acid eating into a metal plate and of course woodcuts are gouged wood, both of which then have ink applied and paper pressed onto the ink creating the "print". Just like with the silk screens these can be built up with different layers/ colors on the paper, so that the finished work of art is a "print", and there are multiple copies. This is a VERY VALID form of art which goes back hundreds of years. It is not as valuable as an oil, watercolor, or acrylic painting where there can be ONLY ONE ORIGINAL.

[KeystoneCruiser]

Further Update:

 

My father left a message on Thursday with the new art company. It is called "Cruise Art."

 

On Friday morning, he received a call from a very nice and fiendly gentleman from Cruise Art. The guy told dad that they were indeed going to fill all orders. He had dad read his purchase number and item number (not sure what those two things exactly are, but if you purchased art, just have your bill of sale from the auction in hand when you call.)

 

The gentleman took the information, excused himself from the phone for a couple of minutes and came back and informed dad that he would receive his artwork in about two weeks. Easy as that!

 

Dad then asked the guy about the other people in our parties are and the gentleman said to have them call in with their purchase numbers and they would be taken care of . The gentleman went on to say that they were trying to fill the orders from the ships quickly, but there were alot of them. He said that if people would call in with their order numbers (or whatever), then they could take care of it quicker.

 

So my advice to anyone who purchased art in the late spring or early Summer and still has not received it, call into NCL and get the number for the "Cruise Art" company. (I'm not sure we would be allowed to post it on this forum, so I won't.)

 

I will keep you posted as to the success when my brother in law calls on Tuesday and also, when my father receives his artwork. (keep in mind that my father did not purchase his artwork, he won it in the free art drawing at the end of the auction on the last day and so all he had to pay was shipping. They still took great care of him just like he was a larger purchaser!)

[lovemykids2]

buyer beware...example I purchased 3 Thomas Kinkade's on another ship last year ( plus several other pieces)....When the first one arrived I was shocked to find out it was on paper. I don't know if it was where I had been sitting (they just brought the pieces out...hadn't seen them prior to the bidding) or the lighting..or what, but, I was amazed it was not on canvas. I callled Park West and was told indeed all three were on paper. They agreed to credit me and I could chose something else. However, be aware I have been told that different publishers use different papers or sell on ships a slower seller etc. Now I am not saying this is fact...I could be wrong...I am just saying I decided to only spend my hard earned money on art from someone I truly know and trust and can deal with anytime I need to. Oh, and by the way, the deals are the same, if not better!

 

I own two original pieces of art...the last one was commissioned from a russian artist...and it is amazing...

[Kay240]

:)

Further Update:

 

My father left a message on Thursday with the new art company. It is called "Cruise Art."

 

On Friday morning, he received a call from a very nice and fiendly gentleman from Cruise Art. The guy told dad that they were indeed going to fill all orders. He had dad read his purchase number and item number (not sure what those two things exactly are, but if you purchased art, just have your bill of sale from the auction in hand when you call.)

 

The gentleman took the information, excused himself from the phone for a couple of minutes and came back and informed dad that he would receive his artwork in about two weeks. Easy as that!

 

 

Dad then asked the guy about the other people in our parties are and the gentleman said to have them call in with their purchase numbers and they would be taken care of . The gentleman went on to say that they were trying to fill the orders from the ships quickly, but there were alot of them. He said that if people would call in with their order numbers (or whatever), then they could take care of it quicker.

 

So my advice to anyone who purchased art in the late spring or early Summer and still has not received it, call into NCL and get the number for the "Cruise Art" company. (I'm not sure we would be allowed to post it on this forum, so I won't.)

 

I will keep you posted as to the success when my brother in law calls on Tuesday and also, when my father receives his artwork. (keep in mind that my father did not purchase his artwork, he won it in the free art drawing at the end of the auction on the last day and so all he had to pay was shipping. They still took great care of him just like he was a larger purchaser!)

 

Thank you for your update. I had read "rumors" that Park West was taking over... Has anyone heard of "CRUISE ART" before? Their agreement to fulfill all the old orders is wonderful, although I don't understand how they can do it. It's like buying clothes at GAP and having CHICO fill your order. :D Keep us posted!

[KeystoneCruiser]

:) Their agreement to fulfill all the old orders is wonderful, although I don't understand how they can do it.

 

 

Now this is just speculation on my part, but perhaps since NCL has not paid the other company for the art puchased over the summer, they instead are forwarding that money to Cruise Art to fill the orders. AGAIN, that is just speculation, I have no proof nor has anyone from either company said that.

[Parrot Mom]

buyer beware...example I purchased 3 Thomas Kinkade's on another ship last year ( plus several other pieces)....When the first one arrived I was shocked to find out it was on paper. I don't know if it was where I had been sitting (they just brought the pieces out...hadn't seen them prior to the bidding) or the lighting..or what, but, I was amazed it was not on canvas. I callled Park West and was told indeed all three were on paper. They agreed to credit me and I could chose something else. However, be aware I have been told that different publishers use different papers or sell on ships a slower seller etc. Now I am not saying this is fact...I could be wrong...I am just saying I decided to only spend my hard earned money on art from someone I truly know and trust and can deal with anytime I need to. Oh, and by the way, the deals are the same, if not better!

 

I own two original pieces of art...the last one was commissioned from a russian artist...and it is amazing...

 

 

You obviously were not at the beginning of the auction any day when the auctioneer explains exactly what the piece is printed on and how... There are few originals, probably the cells..We have bought on every cruise (heaven help us) and even before Park West have never had a problem except with an arrogant auctioneer.. who I hope is no longer with Park West.. Did you really think you were buying an original Kincaide?? Most of the work is seriographs and the pieces I do tend to buy are embelished..and the ones I'd really like..lol are the ones that are the most expensive complete with frames.. We have bought "take off's.. a few of them recently with frames..Frankly, after seeing how Kincaid works I'd as soon have a drawing by a grandchild..lol, but there are Kincaid people out there.. He puts a stroke on it and it goes up thousands of $$.. Ive just discovered that one of my original pieces from the Royal Majest before NCL is worth supposedly close to $5,000... On our last cruise there was one woman buying numbered copies of originals... she must of spent more than $25,000.00 she said she always wanted these pieces...and she wasn't the only one.

[minnie75kids]

There were no art auctions on the Majesty this past week. I was looking forward to participating and maybe getting one piece, but I searched thru the Freestyle Dailies and nothing!

Oh well, maybe next time :(

[Parrot Mom]

That is a "bummer".. we are addicted to them.. Perhaps, Park West will be on next week.. I'm looking for two little pieces..lol Look at all the $$ I'll be saving..

[lovemykids2]

You obviously were not at the beginning of the auction any day when the auctioneer explains exactly what the piece is printed on and how... There are few originals, probably the cells..We have bought on every cruise (heaven help us) and even before Park West have never had a problem except with an arrogant auctioneer.. who I hope is no longer with Park West.. Did you really think you were buying an original Kincaide?? Most of the work is seriographs and the pieces I do tend to buy are embelished..and the ones I'd really like..lol are the ones that are the most expensive complete with frames.. We have bought "take off's.. a few of them recently with frames..Frankly, after seeing how Kincaid works I'd as soon have a drawing by a grandchild..lol, but there are Kincaid people out there.. He puts a stroke on it and it goes up thousands of $$.. Ive just discovered that one of my original pieces from the Royal Majest before NCL is worth supposedly close to $5,000... On our last cruise there was one woman buying numbered copies of originals... she must of spent more than $25,000.00 she said she always wanted these pieces...and she wasn't the only one.

As I explained..it may of been where I was sitting, but I believed I was getting a giclee or litho etc on canvas not paper. I also purchased a Tarkay which they contacted me weeks and weeks later to say they had sold out of so I could chose something else. My Tweety cell came with the frame damaged and the black paint stain when handled was on my hand. The first Kinkade's glass had a flaw in it ( didn't really matter as they agreed to take it back since it was on paper thank goodness.)

My taste in art has really grown so, at this point I wouldn't own a Kinkade because although I believe he is a wonderful business man I don't want to have a piece of art that has such high edition numbers.

I will say Park West while they have a policy of NO RETURNS were very nice and in the end did refund all of my money. It just was a hassle to repack all of the art, it was very disappointing to not have even one piece come in good shape ( the Tweety was so darn cute...too bad about the frame!) and truthfully I was not sure they were going to refund all of the money until the end so I was a bit stressed out (it was quite a bit of money).

[Parrot Mom]

Several years ago I had read that Erte allowed many, many reproductions of all of his work also. Right now I'm Tarkey'd out.. My husband received as ports memorabelia magazine and the prices for the cells were much more than Park West. As for the biggest and rarest of prints.. the Miro pieces are the ones that the art auctioneers themselves covet. Even if I don't buy a piece (don't count on that..lol) it's great getting an edu cation about the artists..

[KeystoneCruiser]

That is a "bummer".. we are addicted to them.. Perhaps, Park West will be on next week.. I'm looking for two little pieces..lol Look at all the $$ I'll be saving..

 

The company that has taken over the art auctions on NCL is called "Cruise Art." It is not Park West as many had hoped.

[tantric]

Fine Art Wholesalers in not part of the company that went bankruptcy. I know a lot about this.

[tantric]

They can replace the art. You will getting something that is like what you saw on the ship.

[tantric]

Now this is just speculation on my part, but perhaps since NCL has not paid the other company for the art puchased over the summer, they instead are forwarding that money to Cruise Art to fill the orders. AGAIN, that is just speculation, I have no proof nor has anyone from either company said that.

 

Cruise Art is a new company, and I would not trust anyone that leave one company to start a new business.