Opt out of daily service charge to tip on my own? Jewel

[shoreguy]

I am going on the Pride of Aloha in a couple of weeks to Hawaii, first time on NCl, Previously have sailed on HAL and Celebrity ships.

 

HAL and X both refer to charges of $10.00 per day as gratuities, you can tip extra if wanted, also can take off charges by going to the desk, with good reasons ( I guess). NCl brochure states $10.00 per day as a service charge which cannot be taken off, but does encourage tipping if you want. Just a little confused....is this a terminology thing in language ?

 

The NCLA ships are different. It is a service charge and does not go into a tip pool. American crew paid under US labor rules including overtime. The only extra they will get over the hourly wage is your direct tips.

 

You will notice that the normal 15% is not automaticly added to your bar checks.

 

As on all NCL or NCLA ships no addition tips are required but much appreciated by the crew.

[Stillfloatin']

Well then, what does the "service charge" actually cover?

[shoreguy]

Well then' date=' what does the "service charge" actually cover?[/quote']

 

Part of the high cost of labor and paid leave for NCLA crew that they earn after two years. In short it is a way in my opinion to hide the higher cost of an NCLA cruise. They need to make the fares look like what we are accustomed to seeing.

 

Bar waiter on NCL - paid $1000 a month as a draw against the 15% on the drinks they serve. Serve more get more, serve less still get the $1000. Not make the $1000 on a regular basis - no new contract.

 

Bar waiter NCLA - $6.50 an hour. $9.75 after 40 hours.

[electricron]

Part of the high cost of labor and paid leave for NCLA crew that they earn after two years. In short it is a way in my opinion to hide the higher cost of an NCLA cruise. They need to make the fares look like what we are accustomed to seeing.

 

Bar waiter on NCL - paid $1000 a month as a draw against the 15% on the drinks they serve. Serve more get more, serve less still get the $1000. Not make the $1000 on a regular basis - no new contract.

 

Bar waiter NCLA - $6.50 an hour. $9.75 after 40 hours.

 

Just for fun, let's do some math.

 

Assuming a 40 hour work week, and 4 weeks to a month, that's 160 hours. $6.50 x 160 hours = $1,040, just $40 more than the $1,000 mentioned earlier, or approximately 25 cents more per hour. That's not that much different. The major difference in pay comes from the overtime crew members work. At NCLA, the crew gets paid a time and a half for working overtime, whereas at NCL, the crew gets no more wages, but they get higher sales figures (more beans) because they are serving passengers for a longer period of time.

[shoreguy]

Just for fun, let's do some math.

 

Assuming a 40 hour work week, and 4 weeks to a month, that's 160 hours. $6.50 x 160 hours = $1,040, just $40 more than the $1,000 mentioned earlier, or approximately 25 cents more per hour. That's not that much different. The major difference in pay comes from the overtime crew members work. At NCLA, the crew gets paid a time and a half for working overtime, whereas at NCL, the crew gets no more wages, but they get higher sales figures (more beans) because they are serving passengers for a longer period of time.

 

But the NCLA crew gets to keep the tips on top of the wages and that is what they are counting on to make the job worthwhile.

[German]

Part of the high cost of labor and paid leave for NCLA crew that they earn after two years. In short it is a way in my opinion to hide the higher cost of an NCLA cruise. They need to make the fares look like what we are accustomed to seeing.

 

Bar waiter on NCL - paid $1000 a month as a draw against the 15% on the drinks they serve. Serve more get more, serve less still get the $1000. Not make the $1000 on a regular basis - no new contract.

 

Bar waiter NCLA - $6.50 an hour. $9.75 after 40 hours.

 

Good for NCLA, bad for the employees, if they were paid based on California law they would get OT paid after 8 hours each day and I believe double time on the 7th day worked (assuming no time off in between), plus base would have to around $8 approx minimum. I think the $6.50 is based on Hawaii minimum. So in short there's never going to be an NCLA homeport in CA.

[cruizinwithkids]

Good for NCLA, bad for the employees, if they were paid based on California law they would get OT paid after 8 hours each day and I believe double time on the 7th day worked (assuming no time off in between), plus base would have to around $8 approx minimum. I think the $6.50 is based on Hawaii minimum. So in short there's never going to be an NCLA homeport in CA.

 

WOW! Massachusetts minimum wage for waiters/waitresses is much lower. Something like $3.00/hour.

[Stillfloatin']

Good for NCLA, bad for the employees, if they were paid based on California law they would get OT paid after 8 hours each day and I believe double time on the 7th day worked (assuming no time off in between), plus base would have to around $8 approx minimum. I think the $6.50 is based on Hawaii minimum. So in short there's never going to be an NCLA homeport in CA.

 

I own a small business here in California and trust me, everything is geared to the employee. Wages, worker's comp, professional liability. This state is in serious need of tort reform but it won't happen so the smart businesses locate elsewhere. As for me, I'm retiring soon and heading OUT of this state.

[shoreguy]

Good for NCLA, bad for the employees, if they were paid based on California law they would get OT paid after 8 hours each day and I believe double time on the 7th day worked (assuming no time off in between), plus base would have to around $8 approx minimum. I think the $6.50 is based on Hawaii minimum. So in short there's never going to be an NCLA homeport in CA.

 

I don't believe those minimums hourly salary apply to waiters. Most states they have to make and report as income the equivalent of the minimum including tips.

 

My understanding the minimum ( wages posted are for entry level from NCLA job adds) is set by the US Maritime Union not the state.

 

The new longer itineraries with sea days should really help boost income for the bar staff on POA. Today with all the time in port the chance to really expand income with tips is limited.

[Planer's Edge]

German brings up a good point. Could NCLA legally reposition one of these ships and be exempt from Jones Act laws? Say cruise from Seattle to Anchorage and them Anchorage to Seattle. Or is this US flagging only legitimate in Hawaii?

 

PE<---where is Syd Meyer when you need him...:rolleyes:

[shoreguy]

German brings up a good point. Could NCLA legally reposition one of these ships and be exempt from Jones Act laws? Say cruise from Seattle to Anchorage and them Anchorage to Seattle. Or is this US flagging only legitimate in Hawaii?

 

PE<---where is Syd Meyer when you need him...:rolleyes:

 

We need Sid - the restrictions have been posted. I remember for sure these ships can never cruise in the Caribbean. They have done US to US cruises LA to HI. Not sure they can homeport anywhere other then HI.

 

If that fails long term they can always throw in the towel, reflag the ships, and put them anywhere in the world.

 

Thing we have this thread far enough OT - :rolleyes:

[smeyer418]

German brings up a good point. Could NCLA legally reposition one of these ships and be exempt from Jones Act laws? Say cruise from Seattle to Anchorage and them Anchorage to Seattle. Or is this US flagging only legitimate in Hawaii?

 

PE<---where is Syd Meyer when you need him...:rolleyes:

 

I believe the law that allowed the ships to be completed overseas or reflagged says that can't sail to Alaska or within CONUS(continental US) except to get to Hawaii. I am not sure whether Hawaii law applies to a cruise ship. It depends on both Federal law and state law. This is NOT to say that it couldn't apply only whether the state in writting the law made it to apply. A cruise ship sailing wholly within a state is surel;y subject to that's law if the state wants it to be.

[newmexicoNita]

I am not sure (where is Sid?) but I don't think min wage refers to any restaurant workers, certainly not wait staff. There will always be those who say, if the company (any company) paid their wait people enough we wouldn't have to tip. Guess what, my grandson in law is working his way through college as a wait person. He will tell you he would rather make only x dollars per hour and get tips than double or triple his salary and no tips. NMnita

[mbisson]

German brings up a good point. Could NCLA legally reposition one of these ships and be exempt from Jones Act laws? Say cruise from Seattle to Anchorage and them Anchorage to Seattle. Or is this US flagging only legitimate in Hawaii?

 

PE<---where is Syd Meyer when you need him...:rolleyes:

 

Based on Min Wages that he mentioned NCLA wouldn't want a ship based in Seattle. Our minimum wage is higher than in California. We're determined to be #1 in something and this is it!

 

-Monte

[electricron]

German brings up a good point. Could NCLA legally reposition one of these ships and be exempt from Jones Act laws? Say cruise from Seattle to Anchorage and them Anchorage to Seattle. Or is this US flagging only legitimate in Hawaii?

PE<---where is Syd Meyer when you need him...:rolleyes:

 

Good question. The answer is yes, and no! :eek:

 

NCL required an exemption from the Passenger Services Act as these ships were built, or completed overseas. The exemption allows NCLA to sail only these three Ameican flagged ships anywhere in the world, EXCEPT Alaska, Mexico, Gulf of Mexico, and the Caribbean Sea. They also must sail "mostly" around Hawaii.

 

Lawyers have interupted "mostly" to meaning more than half a year. So, it's possible for NCL to sail these ships elsewhere for less than half a year.

 

The ports they can't sail to with passengers are in Alaska, Mexico, Caribbean, and ports on the Gulf of Mexico. The Gulf of Mexico restrictions include American ports, like Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, and Tampa.

So, even as American flagged ships, there are American ports they can't sail passengers to, very strange? :eek:

 

The port limitations were placed into the exemption to appease the other cruise lines. That means Carnival and Royal Caribbean had a say into the legislation too.

 

So, they can sail one way itineraries between American ports without visiting "distant" foreign ports, and can sail round trip itineraries from American ports without visiting a "near by" foreign port, just like any other american flagged cruise ship, but not to ports banned by the exemption.

So, from Honolulu to Los Angeles, to San Diego, to San Francisco, to Portland, to Seattle is okay, but not to Juneau, not to Skagway, and not to Valdez. From Honolulu to Miami, to Charleston, to Norfolk, to Baltimore, to Philadelphia, to New York, to Boston is okay, but not to Corpus Christi, not to Houston, not to New Orleans, not to Mobile, and not to Tampa.

Where as most "International" flagged cruise ship can sail to Cozumel, Grand Cayman, Bahamas, Virgin Islands, and Pureto Rico, these three American flagged ships sailing under the exemption can't.

 

That's why the Good Morning America cruises on the Pride of America only sailed to East Coast cities bordering the Atlantic Ocean, they couldn't sail the ship to Gulf of Mexico or Caribbean ports. That's why it's Panama Canal cruise went straight to the Canal without any Caribbean stops, and why it also skipped Mexican ports too.

[Stillfloatin']

Aw, you're making my head hurt. :D

[JLC@SD]

Good for NCLA, bad for the employees, if they were paid based on California law they would get OT paid after 8 hours each day and I believe double time on the 7th day worked (assuming no time off in between), plus base would have to around $8 approx minimum. I think the $6.50 is based on Hawaii minimum. So in short there's never going to be an NCLA homeport in CA.

They can be home-ported here (CA).....they just will not be US owned or US crewed. Princess, HAL and Carnival all have home-ported ships in SD, some year around .....some part year.

[chasetf]

I agree but normally kids under twelve are in the same cabin as the adults who are picking up the cost :eek: A little break so the don't price families off the ship.

Kids have a seat at the dinner table and a bed in the cabin. How do they differ from an adult ? :confused:

[newmexicoNita]

Kids have a seat at the dinner table and a bed in the cabin. How do they differ from an adult ? :confused:

It is an attempt to keep cruising affordable for families, plus I really don't think 3 or 4 in a room, especially if a couple are kids the mess is quite 4 times as much. I do know what you are trying to say, but I also understand NCLs position and am glad they do give a little break. NMNita

[Ol'Muck-n-Mire]

These people work long hours 7 days a week and are away from their loved ones for months at a time. There's only one reason they do this: the money they earn to support their family back home. I'm sure you wouldn't want to deprive them of the money they work so hard to earn.

 

When's the last time you tipped a truck driver? They do exactly what you described above. Aren't they deserving a little extra of your money for making sure your daily life isn't interrupted with the inconvenience of not having food on store shelves' date=' or clothes or other goods that arrive at stores by way of truck? They might not bring you your margarita, but they brought the ingredients.[/color']

I pray that future generations ditch this tipping culture and just pay people to do thier jobs.

[electricron]

When's the last time you tipped a truck driver? They do exactly what you described above. Aren't they deserving a little extra of your money for making sure your daily life isn't interrupted with the inconvenience of not having food on store shelves' date=' or clothes or other goods that arrive at stores by way of truck? They might not bring you your margarita, but they brought the ingredients.[/color']

I pray that future generations ditch this tipping culture and just pay people to do thier jobs.

 

When's the last time you saw a truck driver? When one delivers something to my home, be it the pizza delivery man, furniture man, or express mailman, I always give them a tip.

[Ol'Muck-n-Mire]

When's the last time you saw a truck driver?

 

This morning when I shaved and brushed my teeth. He was staring right at me.

[Planer's Edge]

Pray tell Ol'Muck-n-Mire, when/where is your next cruise. I would dearly love to see your actual interactions on a cruise. Is it all bluster?

 

PE

[VoyageVirgin]

When's the last time you tipped a truck driver? They do exactly what you described above. Aren't they deserving a little extra of your money for making sure your daily life isn't interrupted with the inconvenience of not having food on store shelves' date=' or clothes or other goods that arrive at stores by way of truck? They might not bring you your margarita, but they brought the ingredients.[/color']

 

I pray that future generations ditch this tipping culture and just pay people to do thier jobs.

 

Here in Ontario the General Minimum Wage is $6.65 USD. For waiters/bartenders in a liquor licensed establishment the minimum wage is $5.80 USD and that is what they get. Despite the $6.65 minimum wage, truck drivers earn from $12.84 to $19.99 USD ($16.48 avg). I realize that the US may be different from state to state.

 

No I don't tip truck drivers, except when they have done more than they needed to (helped load/unload, made detours, etc.) If we "ditch this tipping culture and pay people to do their jobs" do you really want to pay $10.50 for your next bar shot or $15.95 for your next margarita or $18.50 for you next dozen chicken wings? :eek:

 

G

[tony@stanton19.freeserve.]

Jumping in with a different perspective here.

In the UK (and most of Europe), although we do give tips, it is not actually expected to be normal practice.

Of course, most wait staff will give their best service in the hope that they will get a tip. Typically, we would tip around 10% but it is not seen as an insult if no tip is left, particularly to bar staff.

 

Consequently we find the preoccupation with tipping to be a little overbearing, particularly in places where it is endemic such as New York. ;)

However reading this thread has opened my eyes. $3.00 minimum wage:eek: In the UK the minimum wage is £5.35 per hour.

Interestingly though, the price of a meal in the US is comparable to that at home but then there is the tip on top of 12-15%. It makes you wonder where the money is going. It is obviously not going to the staff at $3.00 per hour:(

 

So when I book a cruise, I much prefer to find a cruise where all service charges are included or, as in the NCL case, they are stated up front and we know where we stand.

Although I would prefer it to be in the price, $10 per day seems a very reasonable amount. It can sting a little when you see it as $210 for the three of us on the final bill, but when you see that as per person per day, it is a reasonable amount.

Of course we always find someone onboard that has done that little extra to make you reach in your pocket to give a little extra, but that is an extra choice that you are free to make as you feel fit. I also feel that it is more appreciated as you are doing something extra that is not expected.

 

 

I still can't understand why NCL don't include it in their pricing. Even with the service charge, they would still compare favourably with their rivals. One of the reasons that we sail with NCL is the competitive up front cost.

 

The last thing I would want to do is to start messing with envelopes as we did on our first (Carnival) cruise. That just encourages people to leave the staff short