A Professional Opinion

[seahorse]

I believe NCL has to make restitution to ALL of the passengers sailing Hawai`i on POA. No one should have to put up with the kind of service they are getting.

 

I know that they are in a bind and cannot admit they are wrong. What they don`t realize is that "Good Will" has no price.

 

They should go to the front line travel agency community and set up an advisory board. We deal with their bread and butter. Will they? No. I don`t think they even take the advise of their front line reps.

 

If I had clients on these sailings (I won`t book inaugural years for the first 6 mo.) I would be fighting like H**l for them.

 

Give past passengers 50% of their cruise fare back, and reduce present fares by 50%. I know the "Heads" and "Bean Counters" would have a stroke at this suggestion:D This good will would be priceless.

 

They just completed a $1.05 BILLION financing deal. GIVE SOME BACK TO YOUR PASSENGERS.

 

With all of that said, I don`t think NCL are liars ,etc. I honestly believe they fell into a nasty volcano in Hawai`i and don`t know how to get out of it:( So my advice to NCL is THINK OF YOUR PASSENGERS FIRST. Get your good will back, and move on.

[gardencat]

seahorse

 

Great idea, however given the report that NCL wouldn't even give a free drink to a passenger because, she didn't eat in the buffet, I don't see this happening any time soon, unless NCL head office has an almost miraculous epiphany.

[Rdabadie]

NCL's head office had always had an inordinate amount of bad press. Rumors of their overbooking proceedures (when it happened to me I couldn't believe the number of other past passengers I meet online that had the same experience and gave me names and numbers to call) problems with older ships (remember the old Nor Star out of Texas incident where AC failed and everyone ended up sleeping on deck, the continuing bad reviews of the Nor Wind, the Norway being shut down by the coast guard and the boiler explosion) and now the problems with NCL America. While alot of these same problems have plagued other cruise lines, somehow NCL has a harder time steming the bad press. But having been on 5 different cruise lines (including entry level Regal Cruise) NCL's head office is at the bottom of my list when it comes to customer service. Frankly, I cannot in good conscious recommend this cruise line to anyone

[seahorse]

Rob,

 

I agree with most of what you say, that is why I suggest an advisory board. They need to listen.

 

I have had problems with ALL of the cruise lines in my many years in business so NCL is not unique. This statement is no excuse however.

 

Public Relations is their weakest link:eek: Case in point: NOW THEY GO AND CHANGE THEIR TIPPING POLICY:eek: Very bad timing to say the least.:mad:

[gardencat]

Seahorse

I'm getting a bit of whiplash here. When I read your posts about the 'service charge' on the 'NCL service charge' thread I was under the impression that you had no problem with it. In fact when you posted this

 

1- Charge is a SERVICE CHARGE --It goes to the crew. If you believe this or not that is your choice. I believe it unless shown otherwise.

 

2- You may tip extra as you see fit--I will as I always do.

 

3- The reason that this policy was put into effect--People were stiffing the staff. Not any of us:eek: right?

 

I know many of you were angry about the way you were treated when they had to shift everything around because of the "sinking". Please get over it and move on? Life is too short to keep going on and on about this. There are more important matters in all of our lives.

 

You seemed to feel that it was a non-issue and everyone should just get on with it. Now your posting:

 

Public Relations is their weakest link:eek: Case in point: NOW THEY GO AND CHANGE THEIR TIPPING POLICY:eek: Very bad timing to say the least.:mad:

I'm having a little trouble reconcilling these two opinions. Could it be you have had one of those miraculous epiphanies I mentioned before.

[seahorse]

No I still stand by my earlier opinion about the service charge. I just think it was bad timing to do this when they are having so many problems. They should have given copmensation to the passengers and then initiated the charge. Or do both at the same time.

 

I still think that we have to move on about the charge. I feel that it is going to stay and other lines are going to follow as soon as the furor dies down.

 

NCL has to do some damage control

[cnmiranda]

Well, I don't know what to think. IF, and I mean IF all the repeated threads about the ship being short staffed -i.e. rooms not being cleaned for days and the continual 2 hour dinners- are true then POA may need to be cancelled for a little while (I don't know what it would take) to work the kinks out. We'll just have to see if things are getting better with this next cruise or not. NCL's staff are the only ones that truly know how many complaints they are getting. We can only draw our own conclusions here.

 

I have no idea what it costs to shut down a cruise for a week or two, they did it before for 2 days, they may need to do it again. It goes without saying that I want the ship to be very successful, after all, we would really like to try NCL's new ships that will be coming to Hawaii.

 

These are just my opinions, I may be wrong, very wrong. ;):D:)

[newmexicoNita]

Rob,

 

I agree with most of what you say, that is why I suggest an advisory board. They need to listen.

 

I have had problems with ALL of the cruise lines in my many years in business so NCL is not unique. This statement is no excuse however.

 

Public Relations is their weakest link:eek: Case in point: NOW THEY GO AND CHANGE THEIR TIPPING POLICY:eek: Very bad timing to say the least.:mad:

I have to agree with you on this for the most part. The timing isn't the greatest for the service charge even though I have no problem with it personally. As for Rob's comment about overbooking, I am a retired TA and only once encountered an overbooking situation. The offer that was given for changing a cruise date was absolutely wonderful. I had other lines that seemed to specialize in overbooking. Customer service is and has always been a problem with cruise lines. Some think NCL is the worst, I had other experiences. The old Star problems were a nightmere as Rob mentioned, but again the passengers were a very fair settlement. With the exception of the awful accident with Norway and the present POA situation most of the problemed seemed to occur prior to the line being taken over by the Star company. Just my thoughts. NMNita

[seahorse]

It would take more then a few weeks to work out the kinks. Shutting down for 2 weeks is not going to happen. Can you imagine the irate pax then:eek:

 

The problem with the staff, in my opinion, is that they are USA. They have to be on account of the law. When other lines that are foreign flagged get a new ship they take seasoned help to train the unseasoned. NCL can`t do that (Ithink).

 

The new staff came on thinking this a glamour job. When they found otherwise. That they have to work their a***s off, they quit, unionized,etc.

The ones that stayed have to do double or triple work so they are disgruntled.

 

Let`s face it, the work ethic in our country isn`t what it used to be:mad:. No flames please, you all know it`s true. I teach culinary arts at a local tech school (Sub) and the attitude of ALL the students is "That`s not my job"

Not one would pitch in to help another student.

 

Foreign staff on other ships love and need their jobs. They see it as an opportunity to see the world and send back a good deal of money to their families.

[gardencat]

Let`s face it, the work ethic in our country isn`t what it used to be:mad:. No flames please, you all know it`s true.

The work ethic is not what it used to be, I'll agree with that, but I don't think it is fair to put this all down to 'lazy US workers'. In my experience young North American workers (my experience is with Canadian youth) can be hard workers but they have to see what is in it for them. They do have more options, so they are not likely to kill themselves working a crumby job for low pay when there are more appealing or better paying things they could do.

 

They also do not, in my experience, like to be jerked around. They do not have the same inate respect for authority. That doesn't mean that they can not respect the person in charge but I think it means you won't get their respect just by putting a fancy jacket on someone. That person has to earn their respect by honesty and by appearing to know what they are doing, and they are not afraid to question why something is done a certain way.

 

All of this I fear makes a big difference in how this ship needed to be managed. Surly NCL should have foreseen that this was a big undertaking and would require changes to their usual way of doing things a lot of flexibility,and a lot of time to get the new systems up to speed.

 

What I am afraid of, is that NCL was very poorly prepared for this undertaking and with a management that was rigid and not adaptable. Now, if they run into major problems that they can't overcome, it will be the death knoll for all-Hawaii cruises. I don't think this was an impossible undertaking if handled properly, but I'm afraid NCL wasn't up to the job and now ,I think it will be a very long time before anyone else will try again, if this fails.

[seahorse]

Cat,

I didn`t call them "lazy" They just don`t know how to work hard:D and they won`t go the extra mile.

 

Nita,

 

I agree, I have no problems with overbooking on NCL. I think that arises when there are groups onboard and they need the extra space if the group takes off. They always make a "sweet deal".

 

There is a certain land-based chain that ALWAYS overbooks, dosen`t let the pax know untill they get there. I always have clients sign a waiver that I told them this if they insist on booking them. I will do the same thing with NCL in H. if the pax insists.

 

Cat,

If other cruise lines want to do an all H. cruise they will have to get a special "dispensation" bu the H. government and hire an all- american crew.

[gardencat]

Cat,

If other cruise lines want to do an all H. cruise they will have to get a special "dispensation" bu the H. government and hire an all- american crew.

Exactly, and I don't see that happening any time soon, if NCL muffs this operation, do you?

 

They just don`t know how to work hard:D

Sounds kind of like a definition of lazy:) but I still don't agree. I've had young people work very hard , surprisingly enough often for charity ventures, but you do have to have them motivated. Whether that motivation comes from altruism (e.g.feeling that they are doing something good for the less fortunate) or from financial reward doesn't matter, but there needs to be some reason for them to make the effort. I don't think NCL can sell this as a charity so guess they have to rely on the financial reward factor.

 

It is also my opinion that most American yougsters would not take well to having the rules changed half way through. Whether the rules really changed or whether the kids missunderstood the rules from the beginning doesn't matter, what matters is if they feel they are being cheated.

[ptngr]

I have to agree with you on this for the most part. The timing isn't the greatest for the service charge even though I have no problem with it personally.

Or to think of it cynically, the timing is perfect. Maybe they know from the last voyages from the Sky that things are not working so well and too many people adjusted their tips down, so they instituted this service charge just to nip that in the bud.

[Jeconk]

I agree with seahorse 100%, but I don't see NCL management doing a thing about it. Not only are they too arogant to admit their mistakes, I'm not sure they have the know how to get out of the mess.

 

How many times have they opportunities to make things right and instead bury their heads in the sand? When the passengers were being switched from the America to the Aloha, there were several threads asking for at least an onboard credit for those that were switched. I remember one poster saying that even $50 would have surficed just for NCL to show understanding. Then what do they do, they give those switched from the Sky to the Spirit an onboard credit!! That was the first slap in the face to the Aloha passengers. Then they go ahead and institute the mandatory service charge, no reductions or removal...slap 2 at the Aloha passengers. If you add to the fiasco that the Aloha was a smaller ship with less restaurants and many of those switched were dropped cabin catagories with no compensation, that is slap #3.

 

What a great PR move for NCL to have come out and said "all of you who have been switched from the America to the Aloha on any cruise will have the mandatory service charge waived." That alone would have made many people happy, even with the bad service onboard.

 

When there was a thread about a lot of crew members quiting back in June, what did NCL do? Instead of simply not saying anything, as they usually do, and letting their supporters on here take care of it, they jump in with a post that attacks the OP and enrages even their own supporters on here with its tone and attack. When they weren't believed, they came back on and said "yes it's us." Not smart PR.

 

I have said all along, NCL has great ships and crews (even that of the Aloha), but their customer service and public relation departments are jokes. I don't think NCL has to go as far as Seahorse is proposing to make people happy, but simply removing the service charge on POA cruises for the next couple of months and refunding the amount of the service charge to the previous Aloha cruises passengers would go a longgggg way. Yes, it will cost NCL money, but like Seahorse said: "'Good Will' has no price."

[gardencat]

May i ask who the people on this thread think is responsible for NCL's decision to just sit on their hands and do nothing to compensate Aloha passengers. Is this something that you think would come from the top of NCL, Mr. Veitch ( or Mr. 'People will just get used to it', as I've come to think of him) or do you think it is being handed down from the parent company Star lines ?

[Jeconk]

All right, now about the workers: I don't believe that American workers are lazy. Yes some are, but for the most part, I think American workers are oportunistic and unsettled. I too work with at risk kids in a high school and I try to help them find and keep jobs. It is not easy. Jobs are too plentiful right now. Someone gets a job at McDonald's and they get mad at work so they quit. The next day, they go next door to Taco Bell and get hired because Taco Bell is short handed. They get mad there and move to Burger King, and so on and so on. Managers have told me that they can't give bad references or even say that an employee quit after a couple of days because of the fear of lawsuits.

 

Another reason people switch jobs is opportunity. If I am making $5.75 at McDonald's and Taco Bell is offering $6.00 for the same work, I'm making taco's tommarrow!

 

The crew of the Aloha, for the most part, did not know what they were getting themselves into. I spoke with one young girl (probably about 20) in the Hukilau one day and she flat out told me that when she signed up, she thought it would be 8 hours a day working and 8 hours laying out on the ship. She was seriously considering quiting for that reason and like she said, she could make as much money on land as she did on the ship and could choose whether or not she wanted to work overtime.

 

American's also do not do well in service jobs. Not to cause an arguement, but how many American maids do you see in urban areas?

 

I know for a fact that a lot of the unrest on board the POA is due to NCL constantly changing the terms of their contracts and not delivering on promises made to employees. Brings us back to the problems with NCL corporate. (hmmmmm, does that say anything about where the real problems with this company lie?)

 

Finally: Ptngr: Although it sounds like something NCL would do, I don't think they added the mandatory service charge just to prevent people from lowering their tip fees because of the bad POA service. I think they stuck the service charge on in order to help meet the expenses of the ship. They say they are using it to pay crew members vacation pay, that is fine but it is just a part of the cost of the cruise since all other compaines that I know of include vacation pay for employees in their overall operational costs. NCL, in their normal manner of trying to deceive customers, is simply just sticking part of their operational costs of the cruise at the end and calling a "service charge," instead of adding it to the cost at the begining in the hope of selling more cruises because it looks like a good deal. Seperating out part of the cost of the trip and sticking it at the end just to make the price look better at first is underhanded, deceitful and wrong, but that is NCL corporate for you.

[cnmiranda]

Re: Gardencat's question, I think compensation should come from Star lines. I have already mentioned before that we each received $150 future cabin credit pp when we were on the Diamond Princess when the ship wrecked and was damaged. To me that was outstanding, we weren't really that inconvenienced and in turn Princess earned a loyal customer forever. The next cruise after us earned even more compensation (they deserved it that time) and were very generous with their offers.

 

So, I think it should come from Star lines showing POA passengers that the company cares. ;)

[Traveler39]

When the Pride of America sank in Germany and we found that we the prepaid passengers of this ship would now be sailing on a 5 year old ship... We suggested compensation in many forms but at least a $200 on board credit.... Some have received some form of compensation but it does not seem to be accross the board to all.... The Pride of Aloha was picked to take up the slack with the sinking of the Pride of America... The problem was that the Pride of Aloha is an older smaller ship with smaller staterooms, etc...Plus ncl had no desire to use the ship for a 7 day cruise... So we have a ship by NCL's design to sail 3 or 4 night Hawaiian cruises...Now being used for a full 7 night cruise... No compensation or on board credit was offerred.... Many of us were told to either take the cruise or get off the ship... Very ncl.....

 

Many passengers and/or posters here on c.c. have taken the position that compensation or a nicer ship is not necessary... Not necessary because the cruise itself and the ship is not that important on a cruise (?)... It is Hawaii that is important.... Never could I accept that... I paid to be on a new ship with good service and good food... The jury is still out on those areas of the cruise... Yes it would be nice if ncl would wake up and smell the roses... The sweet smell of happy passengers booking and recommending ncl cruises...

 

Can anyone explain why c.c. will pull a posting and not explain or offer any reason... I have noticed several posting pulled recently when discussing the Pride of Aloha.. Does it not make sense to communicate why a thread is closed so that we can learn the limits and borders of accepted postings? I see many postings and posters that appear to me to have no place on c.c. ncl, etc..due to their personnal attacks and negative style of inane comments... but they stay while others just disappear...

[newmexicoNita]

Cat,

I didn`t call them "lazy" They just don`t know how to work hard:D and they won`t go the extra mile.

 

Nita,

 

I agree, I have no problems with overbooking on NCL. I think that arises when there are groups onboard and they need the extra space if the group takes off. They always make a "sweet deal".

 

There is a certain land-based chain that ALWAYS overbooks, dosen`t let the pax know untill they get there. I always have clients sign a waiver that I told them this if they insist on booking them. I will do the same thing with NCL in H. if the pax insists.

 

Cat,

If other cruise lines want to do an all H. cruise they will have to get a special "dispensation" bu the H. government and hire an all- american crew.

Before I was a tA I spent 12 years working for a major hotel chain and yes, especially during busy times they really overbooked. I hope you are not referring to my old employeer? LOL

[Jeconk]

How about another example of NCL running around dazed and confused: Our two cabins each received an on board credit from NCL of $200.00 for the hassles that we had due to the switch from the America to the Aloha. I also know that at least one other cruiser on the June 20 repo cruise received the same. But I also know of several people on that cruise who did not. (Another Ship Trip: did you?)

 

Not that I am complaining, but how was that done? What were the criteria for those who received the credit to have been selected? How is that fair that only certain people got the credit.

 

Question: did anyone not on the June 20 repo receive a credit? (to those of you who have not sailed yet, we got our vouchers in our cabins when we boarded so you may not know yet.)

 

What is this all about?

[gardencat]

Jeconk

 

I can only asume that you must have asked nicely and all the people who didn't get it must have been rude:rolleyes: (or they forgot to compliment NCL enough!)

 

Okay I'm just kidding.:D

[Jeconk]

GardenCat: that's just the thing! I didn't ask for it, my TA just called up a few days before we left and told us an onboard credit voucher would be waiting for us in our rooms! (maybe my TA did)

[jander]

I know we all have opinions, but when you say the Pride Of Aloha is an older ship by NCL's design to sail 3 or 4 night Hawaiian cruises now being used for a full "7" night cruise. you are way off base. We sailed the Sky on a 14 night Panama Canal cruise, and it was very wonderfull. In my opinion it was suited for any amount of days at sea.

[Traveler39]

Good morning Jander.... I stated that NCL designed, advertised and assigned this ship to be their 3 or 4 night ship for the Hawaiian Islands as the Pride of Aloha... That is a fact... It was to be used for the shorter cruises but is now doing the 7 night cruise... Yes this ship was used before as a full service 7 + night cruising ship but due to its age and small cabins NCL decided to use this ship for shorter cruises. The sinking of the Pride of America forced ncl to use the Pride of Aloha on its 7 night cruise... The Pride of America was to be new and with a lot of balconies while the the refurbished Pride of Aloha has a limited number of balconies.... The ship is not that small but has smaller cabins than most cruise ships and now seems to have a less that expected food service...

[Markandrews]

Yes this ship was used before as a full service 7 + night cruising ship but due to its age and small cabins NCL decided to use this ship for shorter cruises.

 

 

Traveler 39, Who at NCL told you that this was the reason the POAloha was to be used for 3/4 day cruises??

 

NCL Has other ships that are older and have even smaller cabins. (the Sea comes to mind)

 

The age part really suprises me because there are many ships older then POAloha that are still doing 7 day cruises for at least 50 weeks a year.